The religion of chase amante

[Ree]

I am the sort of person who either does something or doesnt do it,
but no half assed approach from me at anything...
I give it my all,ree might as weel be short for ree-solve
...so when i got into pick up....i read everything ...from neil strauss....to venusian arts...sixty years of challenge to swingcatt ,to sasha day game videos,james mashall ,tyler durden and every article that ever appeared on this site....not to mention art of seduction...
And when u r viewing so many competing products,u cant help but ... compare
And the question that begs itself to be asked...
Who is the greateset seducer.....i have the criterion neceesary for an answer..wanna know...?.are u seating at the edge of your seat?
Comparing seducers is hard...because.,what criterion will u use?
and thats the reason the ranking system on these sites is not very accurate...
Some sites rank members based on number of posts posted...some based on length of time the individual has been a member...both these methods are illogical for obvious reasons...we obviously agrre that those factors wont work,but we still dont know..what factors will?

FACTORS THAT WILL
Three factors come into play
.prolificity,skill,cogency
Now those are a bunch of hard words...what do they mean?

1ROLIFIC

I dont know,or care about how the dictionary defines seduction....a lot of feel good politicaly correct words are thown around in this forum...oooh...i am here to be a better man...seduction is .making urself a better man...becoming an alpha...becoming confident...learning social values...ok....cool...but .when we get right to the thick of it..seduction is about fucking women...it is undeniable...if i am a good man...or a better man....or fuck it...a best man...and im not getting laid..and u r...u r a better seducer than me....simple as that

2:SKILL

now,i used to think body count was everything,until i started hanging put with some night game guys with high counts...and i realised that the things these people ar fucking,r things i wouldnt even touch with a pole..girls so ugly..if u made a sex tape with them..people would think its gay porn...look...some girls r easier than others...some girls require more skill than others...some girls u have to go the distance..deep diving,relatability tech..atainability echframe battles,build comfort,negotiate her internal mindset hurdles.....some girls..u can just approach like...
:hey ,can i offer u sex...in exchange for sex?...
Long story short...prolificity is not equal to skill..there is a person making tons of approaches and getting only ones...getting laid egular..yet .he would never have a chance with a five

3:COGENCY

Remmber im not comparing seducers here....i am comparing teachers of seduction
U can be the best seducer in the world,but if u cant tell me what u rdoing,why u r doing this,howu r doing that...then u r not helping me.
The main problem here arise as a result of

a.some people do things without knowing they are doing them
B.some overlook very important things as not important...and
C.some assume stuff about u the student,stuff that may not be true

Let me give eaxmaples

A and Bexamples.generaly speaking nearly all seducer know about lmr,creating attraction,fundamentals(clothes,walk and posture),repartee,and rapport
What they ignore as unimportant or dont know about..is relatability tech,attainability tech and some fundamentals tech(voice tone and expressions)

C Example...with mystery..he assumes u r low value.and u r doing nightgame..he assumes the people reading his book,are fat nerdy zit faced lonely wankers....if u are even halfway to getting ur fundamental right..and if god forbid u r daygaming....u will blow all the girls within a half mile radius to auto rejection land,sixty years of challenge assumes u r already a competent seducer,u just need to be taught about venues and pyshsical esvalation


Knowing this
a great truth was unfolded to me
...chase amante is hands down the best seduction instructor,though he may or may not be the greatest seducer,
His prowes is his ability to break down they why,...cogency..the ability to teach

Who is the greates seducer..idk....i wish we could have seduction olympics..a bunch of seducers in the street...when the whistle blows..u just ran fucking anything in a skirt...and a day later..a tally is taken...anyway....any names worth mentioning?

 

[Jack Swave]

a.some people do things without knowing they are doing them
B.some overlook very important things as not important...and
C.some assume stuff about u the student,stuff that may not be true

Ree, to be honest you need to shut the fuck up. Your posts sound so raw and it's like you don't value girls. Why make your topic " the religion of Chase Amante?". That's not even a sensible topic for what you talk about. From now on please stick to asking questions and posting field reports. I beg you. Don't you think you're going too far? Don't you think you shouldn't be pushing your views? It's very disturbing for me .

I guess now that I've talked you will run off to make another post about me. You fall under B and C.

If this is the views girls chase will tolerate from you then this isn't the place for me. You don't slam your piece of meat in a girl. You don't do any crazy stuff to seduce girls ? Who are you Ree ? Please keep your views inside your head until Chase or Franco has leveled you up to Cro Magnon man

Bubinile

 

[Rage]

Why wouldn't you title this post "who's the greatest seducer of all time?" or something like that... not clickbaity enough for you huh?

...

That being said; I think that the issue is subjective, and you cant really get a true answer because seduction is an art and seducers are artists.

Other fields that aren't arts you can have some objective criteria that you use to make this assessment. Who the best basketball player is you can go by like points scored all time or something like that. Other sports are similar, and the purpose of sports derives from this: guys wanting to have someone be the all out winner and having a contest to determine who that winner will be, using objective and consistent standards and criteria.

Similar to above you could ask which scientist most significantly affected manind and have a few arguments and a few people competing as your winner.

But when it comes to arts it's different. Art is subjective.

If you were to ask who the better artist is, davinci or van gogh let's say... you wouldn't be able to give an answer because artists create what they perceive in their mind's eye. They innovate andhave just a set of materials, imrpovise, and create someething from scratch.

And the purpose of art is to give a good performance you might say, or to reach a certain end or captivate an audience or something.

But even simpler than that is: art for the sake of art. Creative expression because that's what we as humans do.

With seduction we try to achieve a certain end of laying a girl. Just like as a painter you are trying to reach the end of creating a painting.

At the end of it all painter and seducer will have a series of lays or paintings before them. But the process the steps what it looks like getting their and whatever the nuances of the results itself look like will be vastly different person to person. 'Eacb unique to the indivdual artist(s); who's to say one's better than the other?

...

And regarding chase being the best teacher out there, chase has been primary teacher for many of us on the boards. But if you ask him I don't think he'd say he's the best out there; the best teachers are often eternal students. Chase has learned a lot of what he has from various mentors I'm sure, and if I were to guess I'd say he has a teacher or three who he still looks up to, learns things from, and holds in his mind as someone who's a mentor and a potentially better skilled seducer and/or better teacher than him (subjectively to him).

And who's to say who's the best (or not) regarding that either...

Rage

 

[Bete Noire]

Ree your writing style is hilarious sometimes As for the questions this post posed, i'd like to know which material you valued most both on GC and outside. You mentioned extensive research into seduction and seen as I've grasped the concepts and mindsets pretty quickly - some of the 'tech' stuff you mentioned might make a great read ^^

 

[Rage]

Hey Radeng,

I had read a lot of stuff when I was in late high school and early college (funny because when I was reading the most I wasn’t doing anything; eventually had to put down what I was reading and start actually DOING approaches and that was when I just applied Girlschase and didn’t read or follow much else). I think plenty of us on the boards are avid readers of seduction material to eventually end up finding this site.

Anyway just wanted to mention something (not to be negative lol but just something I know of) but I remember reading a couple of years ago that Adam Lyons isn’t legit.

Him and a number of other guys who market, promote, teach, and sell pickup do what they do and got into it more because of the lucrative business opportunity that was there from it after Strauss wrote The Game.

I’m cool giving people the benefit of the doubt or not as to how seasoned or not they are as a seducer and/or how many girls they’ve fucked or how consistent they are or whatever. But I think (this likely contributes to answering your question Ree) that the guys who are legit or the best you can tell from their character and their actions. From who they are.

Effective writing and speaking means that you are an effective communicator. But that can be attached to or disparate from being good at pickup itself. The best players are the ones who have become so in their character and the virtues they’ve gained through rigorous application, breakdown, failures successes and slow paced growth for lots of consistent time spent working on the skill.

There are guys that are good communicators and teach decent content and material but they lack the conviction and character and you can see that in their eyes and actions and what they have to say (especially if you have gotten much further past their levels through hard work; an experienced guy with 10s of lays under his belt can get something out of Girlschase material that is written by practioners and guys who have worked to master game and who are players first before they are writers; but that guy won’t get much out of say an ask men article or gamblers top tips to make yourself look more attractive or best lines to increase chances of a one nigh tstand or some bullshit like that).

…

Back to Lyons:

Lyons claimed banging some 500+ girls somewhere and other puahate guys (back when I was reading this stuff lol) outed him… that stuff plus reading reviews of his bootcamps made it seem rather evident that “yeah maybe this guy is more of a marketer than a good player who got into the business to really teach guys what he knows”

Sources: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... fgLJR5mQ-o

http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=673

…

Lyons’ background was that he was a PR guy and made his money in that business before getting into the pickup business.

Similarly Rich la ruina/gambler of pua training made good income playing stocks first and getting some financial independence from that before he transitioned into the pickup business of PUA training.

With all the people that are in this pickup/coaching/men’s improvement business, I think there is somewhat a spectrum between guys who got into it as real players who saw that they could teach and make some money in a not-as-saturated-back-then market.

And then there are also guys who had some success with girls, learned a couple things about game here and there, maybe even fucked a number of girls. But who were businessmen first and saw the business potetnail in this and jumped on it based on that.

They likely aren’t masters at seduction, and are more in it for the money and for making bucks off guys that read strauss’s book get into the community sucking shit with women and then potentially go and run into their pickup material.

That stuff will tend to be true but more general/theoretical/not throughouly field tested, or written by practioners/experts of the craft. It will be guys who are giving tips and pointers that only the most basic of which will be used to get good with girls (and the rest will be theoretical stuff that few guys will put to actual practical use… like suggestions on how to attract strippers or something; that stuff is cool from a Girlschase writer who has done that stuff and is talking from experience.. but more useless from any business pua teacher who has been in a relationship for a long time/and or is no longer an avid practitioner of the craft (and potentially never was).

…

I don’t really give a shit about any of this though, lol because I’m just interested in my own growth and learning and that will largely be practical and in doing first, and then after that in what I can learn that is effective, field tested, and credible/legit material. I have that in Girlschase, the boards, and any other natural friends who I can watch/learn from … and also some guys who are good practioners on youtube. After that I have my own experience and practice and can notes from that and compare to what I learn from others who are doers and not just talking about game.

 

[Rage]

Interesting stuff Radeng; I think i remember reading that lyons did have expereince with social circle from building up a circle from his PR days and getting some girls through that... maybe he does have some expereince on that or some of that is legit.

Hahahaha i looked him up today when you brought him up and found this youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/AFCAdamLondon/videos which makes it really hard to take him seriously (top 5 video game characters with the biggest dick? wtf hahahaha(

i have never done social circle game but hearing you talk about it and hearing hectors podcast from today makes me more keen to go out and try it. i'm more an introvert but think that potentailly some social circle to copmlement daygame appraoches would really help.

Rage

 

[Ree]

a.some people do things without knowing they are doing them
B.some overlook very important things as not important...and
C.some assume stuff about u the student,stuff that may not be true

Ree, to be honest you need to shut the fuck up. Your posts sound so raw and it's like you don't value girls. Why make your topic " the religion of Chase Amante?". That's not even a sensible topic for what you talk about. From now on please stick to asking questions and posting field reports. I beg you. Don't you think you're going too far? Don't you think you shouldn't be pushing your views? It's very disturbing for me .

I guess now that I've talked you will run off to make another post about me. You fall under B and C.

If this is the views girls chase will tolerate from you then this isn't the place for me. You don't slam your piece of meat in a girl. You don't do any crazy stuff to seduce girls ? Who are you Ree ? Please keep your views inside your head until Chase or Franco has leveled you up to Cro Magnon man

Bubinile

Woah...i honestly dont understand what exactly u r mad about...reread ur post three times?....im baffled....whats the beef man?

 

[Ree]

Ree your writing style is hilarious sometimes As for the questions this post posed, i'd like to know which material you valued most both on GC and outside. You mentioned extensive research into seduction and seen as I've grasped the concepts and mindsets pretty quickly - some of the 'tech' stuff you mentioned might make a great read ^^

Hey..thanks...this is how id break it down..this is my opinion and hey....im not jesus..right or wrong...this is how i feel..lol..this is how i wud rank them



Chase amante..great for all ages..taught me everything
Alek.......for advanced guys night gaming...taught me sex talk
Mystery.....for geeks and beginers night gaming...taught me repartee
Swingcatt...watered down chase?..taight me frames
Sixty years of challenge...advanced nightgamers...taight me physical escalation
Sasha daygame...for daygamers...good material but focuses too much on approaching
James marshaal...same as sasha
Tyler durden....watered down mystery
Aoron something...talks about nighgame...assumes u know too much...taught me venues
Rober greene...no tactics...just a great read..not practical or pragmatic...more of a novel...than a how to manual

 

[Ree]

Why wouldn't you title this post "who's the greatest seducer of all time?" or something like that... not clickbaity enough for you huh?

...

That being said; I think that the issue is subjective, and you cant really get a true answer because seduction is an art and seducers are artists.

Other fields that aren't arts you can have some objective criteria that you use to make this assessment. Who the best basketball player is you can go by like points scored all time or something like that. Other sports are similar, and the purpose of sports derives from this: guys wanting to have someone be the all out winner and having a contest to determine who that winner will be, using objective and consistent standards and criteria.

Similar to above you could ask which scientist most significantly affected manind and have a few arguments and a few people competing as your winner.

But when it comes to arts it's different. Art is subjective.

If you were to ask who the better artist is, davinci or van gogh let's say... you wouldn't be able to give an answer because artists create what they perceive in their mind's eye. They innovate andhave just a set of materials, imrpovise, and create someething from scratch.

And the purpose of art is to give a good performance you might say, or to reach a certain end or captivate an audience or something.

But even simpler than that is: art for the sake of art. Creative expression because that's what we as humans do.

With seduction we try to achieve a certain end of laying a girl. Just like as a painter you are trying to reach the end of creating a painting.

At the end of it all painter and seducer will have a series of lays or paintings before them. But the process the steps what it looks like getting their and whatever the nuances of the results itself look like will be vastly different person to person. 'Eacb unique to the indivdual artist(s); who's to say one's better than the other?

...

And regarding chase being the best teacher out there, chase has been primary teacher for many of us on the boards. But if you ask him I don't think he'd say he's the best out there; the best teachers are often eternal students. Chase has learned a lot of what he has from various mentors I'm sure, and if I were to guess I'd say he has a teacher or three who he still looks up to, learns things from, and holds in his mind as someone who's a mentor and a potentially better skilled seducer and/or better teacher than him (subjectively to him).

And who's to say who's the best (or not) regarding that either...

Rage

I agree with a lot of things ur saying...
But
A lot of things people think are subjective...arent...
For example ...

....whos the best artist of all time?
....who is the best boxer of all time?
.....whos the best musician of all time...et.c

I think with any of these things u can break them down to measurable criteria...for example

What is music?(or art..or whatever)...entertainment
Who are we entertaining?.....people
So who is the person whoze music most people feel entertained by?....

Using this very measurable criteria we can then conclude eminem is a better musician than canibus
Or...adelle is better than brandy

It might not be this simple,because if we r measuring album sales,we have to take into account things like promotion,marketing,piracy..e.t.c
But all these things are quantifiable...and it would not make a jcole fan happy if u said with all the authority in the world that rihanna is a better musician....but my point is...it is math that can be done
Objective not subjective
We can take someones approaches,see how many dates they get,how fly the gals are (the flyness of the gals wud be ranked by a panel of judges) and come up with the best seducer....
U might think that flyness is subjective...while it is true a girl who is a seven to u might be a ten for me.....e.t.c...that would be inconsequential because...a gal who has always been treted like a seven,will behave like a seven iregerdless of wether i look at her as a one or a ten....

 

[Ree]

Ree,

Interesting post.

I used to think like this, and trust me, I've read alllll the seduction stuff.

However, I think rage is totally correct. AND the guy who has the most proof of being the best in my opinion is AFC Adam.

Now I don't know about his teaching. It may be ok. But the dude was legendary for being a relatively ugly club promoter that rolled around with insanely hot girls, up to 40+ on his arm literally when he'd go out on the weekends, and pretty much only dated club queens/ minor celebrity model type girls. Married a model, divorced her bc she didn't want kids and now lives with 2 really hot women in LA I believe completely polygamous with children.

Anyway, his teaching may be shit tho lol idk.

Chase has never provided any proof of his skills other than being an AMAZING writer. Everything he writes is so well broken down and thought out and has stood up to the test when tested for me. He also claims to fuck less girls than other PUAs because he only dates and approaches high quality women and won't stoop below certain standards.

Rsd Tyler dates insanely gorgeous women and is an ugly 5'7 ginger. He's made tons of money but admits he fucks a lot of ugly girls to find and keep his hottest girls. He has very aggressive physical game.

Honestly tho as rage said its not really a quantifiable skill. I thinks it's just masturbation to talk about who's the best. Also hot girls are also debatable. Everyone has a different "hottest girl". I love petite women but some of my friends say the girls I like are too skinny and I feel some of the girls they date are too big for me.

Also, banging ugly girls. I say go for it. I def used to bang girls that I wouldn't now. But occasionally I'd strike gold. It helped me get to a new level. Now I rarely hook up with completely unattractive girls, sometimes if it's all that's available, but in general the girls I hook up w are hotter than I ever have before and I don't think I'd have reached this point without getting my process and confidence up on the uglier chicks.

Anyway, If you want to reach top levels, I've realized it goes way past game. You must build a life, be in great shape, be well read, and have game and be aggressive and live a good area to hit your own pinnacle. if you want to be the best, Ree, I'd focus less on game(don't quit focusing on game) and more on money, style, gym, and aggressiveness.

Why does it matter to you so much tho, "who the best" is and "what's the top level?"

I think GLL sums it up well: the guys who get laid the most, approach the most aggressively and also get rejected the most.

Radeng

Hey radeng

Yeah tru dat....
Wud u not be curious tho...is that not the basis of all sports?
Their is a fastguy in ur village...everyone is talking about how fast he is?....and after some time u learn that there is also a fast guy in the next village.....isnt curiosity...first and foremost...beforecompetitiveness..that makes u want to put this two people on a line and have them run and touch a tree?
Would it really help me knowing who the best seducer is....well...technically no....but the same can be said about knowing who the best boxer is...all the people who paid top money to see,pacman vs mayweather...how did it help them?....lol....
When u meet ur cousins who u havent seen in an year....are u not lined up to see whoz the tallest....heheheh
Pick up as been around for so long,it should be a sport in the olympics
Im not sure how the logistics wud work tho..ud need hidden cameras...maybe a camera....pinned to ur shirt....an unsuspecting city.....idk

Curiosity is what makes men put a hare on a course...can it outrun a greyhound?
Man have pitted pitbulls against bulls,men have pitted men against men,lions against tigers,bears against dogs,dogs against dogs,...dogs against dwarves...bears against bears...bear with me...its reall not so strange being curious..who s the best seducer?

 

[Rage]

Hey to your point Ree, I kinda agree with you too haha

The topic's kind of like having one thing and many perspectives you can look at it from. I remember doing music and trying to be the "best one" and trying to figure out who the best ones are and yea there are different things that you can say x guy is better than y guy, to a rather objective degree (ex. tupac has the better lyrics, Biggie the better beats.. or something like that)

If I were to guess an answer to your original question, for who I in my opinion would say the best seducer would be, would be the old guy who has decades and decades of expereince, 100s of lays many relationships and a number of the ones and ideal girlfriends who he has been with.

I believe that history kind of repeats itself, so the old guy gets to see what has happened a generation or two in advance already. He has prescience and wisdom/intuitive knowledge from his years that younger players wouldnt have.

But then again if you define best player by who can go out and fuck the girl first or get the best girl or something, then the old guys at a serious disadvantage all over again sorta huh? haha

Rage

 

[Eternity]

^Great examples Radeng. Summed it up very succinctly.

 

[Bboy100]

One thing I noticed about that story is that even though the natural expands less effort, the PUA probably has more consistency. So even though the athlete doesn't have to do as much (or anything really) to get girls, he also probably has no clue how he even does it. So when he decides "I'm going to get a girl tonight", he has no actionable steps to do it. So effectively, he might get what he wants, he might not. In fact, to him the concept of "going out to get girls" really has no actionable meaning attached to it. It's more of a goal. ...His actual actions would be exactly the same. And unless he's very famous, this seems like it would bring far less consistency (i.e. one night, he'll get the hottest girl at the club, the next, he'll end the night with his dick in his hand).

Whearas the master PUA probably has a lot more consistency because he has more reference points, which have lead to a precise and very formulated way of picking up the girl. Yeah, he might expand more effort. But he has more confidence that he can do it on any given night. Granted, the PUA might also fail. But it just seems far less likely in most situations. Because there is a method to the madness. It's not just a bunch of random actions.

To take the example you gave:

The athlete more or less lucked out that the bouncer knew him. It would have been just as likely that he didn't get into the VIP and that instead, he just ran around directionlessly the whole time. This could easily lead to a night of no tangible success.

Conversely, a master PUA has probably been to that club or similar ones thousands of times. He knows exactly what's likely to happen and how to deal with that situation because he's ran into it countless times before. There are no surprises, there's no guesswork involved, and there is precision and intent behind every one of his actions.

Edit: Also, that story involves someone who has achieved fame. Which is a whole different animal in of its own right. Imo, it's different from "game" and "seduction" altogether.

 

[Ree]

Hahahah...radengs post reads like a commentary on an actual sport event......very imaginative...and actually feels to me very close to what would actually happen?..i agree with bboy that the pua might have more consistency....not to go out on a tangent but i think naturals are good at approaching but suck at closing....unless anyone has conflicting data?..plus..was mystery there?..what did he do

 

[Drck]

Interesting topic. IMO asking who is the best seducer is quite misleading because there is lots of criteria to consider... What does it mean seducer at first place? A guy who sleeps with lots of girls? Well, there is a bunch of guys who sleep with lots of girls and they don't really know much about seduction at all...

Take Arnold Schwarzenegger for example, when he was younger the word is that he slept with lots of women, even 4-5 times per day (different ones). What's the truth probably nobody but Arnold knows, but I don't have a problem saying that he probably slept with more women than the best seducers on the market today... Did he have any seduction skills? Sort of, his overall positive attitude and appearance... At the same time, if I say the he is one of the best seducers around, everybody would probably laugh. We all probably know that Arnold and seduction in one sentence is quite a good oxymoron....

Similarly, there are different guys with different techniques and different desires. I believe that most guys here wants to get couple hot girls, and than settle down with one hotty, have family or at least long term GF... So for guys like that, sleeping with 50 girls might sound like too much, and if not 50, 200 is probably impossible... They need lots of seduction skills, they are practicing lots of skills, they create their style, they do lots of investments as they put relatively high value on those particular hot girls...

On the other hand there are guys with totally different desires, say just sleep with girls, and they never want to settle down... For them 200 is nothing unusual, they don't place much value on being with another person at all... Sometimes they sleep with attractive girls, other times with less attractive, but because they don't put much value on girls at all, they don't really need many seduction skills... In other words, they go for sex directly, they move quickly from girl to girl and just invest if the girl is "open"...

So who is the better seducer, the first guy who sleeps with less than fifty girls, or the second one who just sleeps with 200+girls, with just some basic game...?

The better seducer is probably the one who has much better seducing skills - which in this case is actually the guy who studied GC and others for years, has lots of knowledge and practicing skills, yet who slept with less than 50 girls... If that makes sense...

 

[Drck]

Radeng: "I guarantee, his natural looks, testosterone level, aggressiveness, assuming he has a charismatic personality...he probably needs VERY little game at all to make an average guy who's practiced game for years look bad"

Yep, exactly

 

[Ree]

The better seducer is probably the one who has much better seducing skills - which in this case is actually the guy who studied GC and others for years, has lots of knowledge and practicing skills, yet who slept with less than 50 girls... If that makes sense...

Right on...
I agree sleeping with a lot of girls who were into u from the start,doesnt make u good....
From ur post i would then say
The best seducer is the person who can get the least attracted girls into bed...beacuse that is the scenario that requires most skill right?

Mystery needed 7 hours to get through the comfort and trust stage of his routine and he ran out of time.

Heheheheh...why do u guys clown mystery so much..man ...i actually respect mystery as one of the old school guys who paved the path...i wont enter into the club with a pack of cards for magic tricks...but hey..i wouldnt board the plane that the wright brothers invented either....But the wright brothers deserve respect...no?

 

[Drck]

"From ur post i would then say
The best seducer is the person who can get the least attracted girls into bed...beacuse that is the scenario that requires most skill right?"

But even then it is not so clear. What is attraction? I believe that attraction can be modified up to some point. Try this experiment:

Step 1:
* Put some casual, worn clothes on, no style
* Have casual body language, look sloppy, weak, fatigued...
* Don't look much into girl's eyes, when she looks in your eyes move your eyes away or to the ground

What is your attraction level? It will be minimal. Many girls will drop you right there... Now reverse it:

* Better clothes, decent style (doesn't have to be perfect or too visible, doesn't have to be expensive); be neat, clean, decent hairstyle
* Stand up more erected yet relaxed, feel good in your skin, express that you like/love your life
* Look firmly into her eyes (without staring), perhaps smile gently to show that you are a warm person

Your attraction will skyrocket. Many girls will give you signs that they are interested in you

Step 2 (assuming that she is attracted to you at this time):
* Have soft, weaker voice, be difficult to understand, have confusing and unclear ideas or things to talk about
* Closed body language, be nervous, anxious, show low self-respect and self-esteem
* Get emotional, needy. Show that you like her a lot
* Be careful what you say, too uptight... Be too logical...
* Avoid talking to her when you see her for the first 1-3 times

Again, she will drop you right there... Now:

* Have stronger, sounding voice
* Keep your body language open, show comfort, show confidence, take some extra space (just a little is good enough)
* Show more independence, no neediness. Show her that she is an interesting person but you may not like her That much
* Show higher self-respect and self-esteem, no need to be narcissist but show that you really like what you do and who you are
* Say what you want to say without being stupid, without making a fool out of yourself. Say it in comfort and confidence while being relaxed...
* Talk to her with ease the 1st or 2nd time you see her or meet her

Now some girls may drop you here as they got to know you little bit better and you don't fit their image of a man they were looking for. But many others, say 60-70% if not more, will show further interest in you. So you won the attraction by (1) Step 1 initial visual attraction, and (2) Step 2 your personality (resp. confidence, relaxation, comfort, positive attitude and ability to communicate)...

.... So see, here we can increase the attraction at least up to some point. All the above is just inner work on yourself, you don't really need lots of seduction skills and you will still keep lots of girls interested in you...

What's Step 3? Step 3 is start pulling/pushing her to your place. Be hesitant, be undecisive, show discomfort, show inexperience - and you will lose her.... On the other hand, show confidence, lead, be 'sure' of what you want to do - and she will follow, and if not she will keep quite a high interest in you....

But again - is this a seduction per se? IMO it is just inner work, no seduction skills are really needed...

 

[Bboy100]

Heheheheh...why do u guys clown mystery so much..man

Mystery and all old-school pickup is trash. He doesn't teach you to create attraction by honestly being a high value guy. Instead, he teaches how to manipulate girls into believing you're high value when really, you're not. via premeditated lines and "routines". This has several problems:

1. It only works on emotionally damaged girls (luckily, there's a lot of those at clubs! So Mystery's stuff does work on them). Any girls who aren't completely hungry for male validation will see right through the BS.
2. I believe most people get into pickup not because they wish to endlessly go from one girl to the next till the day they die. Most of us will (sooner or later) want to settle down with one great girl. Again, Mystery leaves us very poorly equipped for that. This is for the same reason mentioned at the start: It's deception. Its all an act. What happens when you run out of "routines" and "lines"? The real you shows through. I guarantee you that real version of you is far needier and more desperate than most girls would care for. This is a very known issue with old- school pickup. None of them...not even the guys at the top can keep relationships.
3. I'm sorry, but even if his shit did work, the phrase "You need to neg the target then DHV, after which you should go into C1" is funny. Just makes him sound like a robot or some shit. lol

So to use your analogy...he didn't build the first plane. He built the prototype for a first plane which eventually crashed and burned to the ground.

If you're interested in finding out more detail about why old school pickup doesn't work, read Mark Manson's ebook: Models Attract Women Through Honesty. It explains it a lot more clearly and thoroughly than I did. It's also has a good and very unique perspective on seduction. Highly recommend it for its own sake.

 

[Ree]

Heheheheh...why do u guys clown mystery so much..man

Mystery and all old-school pickup is trash. He doesn't teach you to create attraction by honestly being a high value guy. Instead, he teaches how to manipulate girls into believing you're high value when really, you're not. via premeditated lines and "routines". This has several problems:

1. It only works on emotionally damaged girls (luckily, there's a lot of those at clubs! So Mystery's stuff does work on them). Any girls who aren't completely hungry for male validation will see right through the BS.
2. I believe most people get into pickup not because they wish to endlessly go from one girl to the next till the day they die. Most of us will (sooner or later) want to settle down with one great girl. Again, Mystery leaves us very poorly equipped for that. This is for the same reason mentioned at the start: It's deception. Its all an act. What happens when you run out of "routines" and "lines"? The real you shows through. I guarantee you that real version of you is far needier and more desperate than most girls would care for. This is a very known issue with old- school pickup. None of them...not even the guys at the top can keep relationships.
3. I'm sorry, but even if his shit did work, the phrase "You need to neg the target then DHV, after which you should go into C1" is funny. Just makes him sound like a robot or some shit. lol

So to use your analogy...he didn't build the first plane. He built the prototype for a first plane which eventually crashed and burned to the ground.

If you're interested in finding out more detail about why old school pickup doesn't work, read Mark Manson's ebook: Models Attract Women Through Honesty. It explains it a lot more clearly and thoroughly than I did. It's also has a good and very unique perspective on seduction. Highly recommend it for its own sake.

Bboy taking no prisoners...hehehehe....damn bboy i hope u didnt pay for a mystery workshop..lol...damn man..i hope ur not the guy who mystery stole kattya from...hahaha

Il have to play devils advocate on this one...all the issues youve raised r true
...those methods were lame..for reasons u have just pointed out...but is there nothing..nothing at all...that we kept from that prototype....?

Opinion openers?
The concept that seduction should be approached as a skill and approaches approached with outcome independence?
Repartee then rapport?
Frames?
Frames?
Role reversal frames?
Frames are so important il even type them again...in caps
FRAMES.?
Lmr tech?
Frames?

Is there nothing we kept?


If we compare the f35 that is chase amante to the prototype that is mystery....mystery will inevitably have some parts that are redundant,superfluous inefficient and some will just be plain self defeating..but only beacuse we look at his methods in hindsight
At his time,what he was teaching was the best he knew..it wasnt like he had this information at gc,but Was feeding people bullshit out of malice,or as an inside joke with styles
Our stuff is better because we had the advantage of knowing about his stuff before we made ourz
(but ross jeffries u can diss..if chase is an f35,and mystery iz a plane prototype ...ross jeffries is a dented garbage can full of water buffalo penises..)