The Traffic Light Method is weak and gay. Respect senior members

[Chase]

Lately there have been a few lame, dumb movements on the Boards. These movements are:

1. Members who think they are hot shots because they follow the Traffic Light Method, who then go and argue with everyone else about it, trying to proselytize this Revolutionary New Method
   
   
2. Members who think they can argue with anyone, without manners or tact, regardless of seniority

We just had @Razorjack, a highly, highly respected, trailblazing seducer from the early days of the seduction community, run off the Boards by some of these guys. This was a guy who was in effect a mentor to a mentor of mine. He was GOOD. Very good. Better than almost anybody else on this forum. He was here dropping pearls. Even in just the short amount of time he was here, I learned stuff from him. Getting good senior members to stick around on a forum and participate is one of the HARDEST things to do for any forum. And these two idiots ran him off.

However, it is not just these two dolts doing this stuff. There is this entire movement among certain guys on the Boards, and I am seeing these sentiments spreading like COVID-19 among the lower level guys... with a couple of cheerleaders among some of our higher ranked members.

I don't think the guys who do this stuff are necessarily gay, lame, or dumb. But these habits they are getting into are leading them to just all kinds of retarded nonsense.

FIRST OFF. When I started Girls Chase, it was to take a lot of what is covered in the seduction community, and mainstream it. I wanted to make it friendly for "casuals." Both for regular guys without the patience to learn a bunch of tricks or jargon... and for guys who were already naturals, without the patience to learn a bunch of tricks or jargon. My reasoning was not every guy necessarily wants to become an mPUA ("Master Pick Up Artist"). But EVERY guy would like to do better with girls to some extent.

I have always tried to make the material friendly, simple, and doable. And I try to be encouraging to guys, because I want them to feel good about this, and have a positive experience. I want them to say "Yes, I CAN do it!" and apply themselves and learn.

One of the things I have taught over the years was one of the first things I learned in seduction. This was a variation of the system inside a 2003 book called (simply enough) The System by Roy Valentine. Valentine's System has guys dividing women up into three different types. They are: women who don't want anything with you right now; women you can take contact info from and set up a date for later; and women you can get to go with you right now to somewhere you can have sex.

When I started teaching variations of this method on Girls Chase, I had not seen anything like it in the pickup community. But I knew that most advanced guys did this instinctively. Just like fundamentals, a thing that largely wasn't taught, but every advanced guy figured out somewhere along the lines to get handled.

Now, usually, I do not ever say "There are some girls you just aren't going to get." But sometimes I will -- when talking to beginner guys who obviously are getting way ahead of themselves.

We have some guys around the community who barely get results, yet ask about how to get girls in all kinds of ridiculous scenarios. For guys like this, I will tell them, "Look pal, you are probably not going to get that girl. Focus on girls who are more accessible to you."

I have never, never, NEVER said that to any reasonably advanced guy. Nor have I ever thought that way for MYSELF.

And in fact it is a painful thing for me to even say to a guy.

I only say it when it is clear he is just way too focused on trying to get girls who are almost impossible for his skill level, while passing up girls he could easily get (and would enjoy getting. We're not talking about bagging hambeasts here).

Somewhere along the line though, some guys, maybe from reading me, maybe from other influences, maybe from some fusion of things, came up with a brand new method. The Traffic Light Method!

And with that, guys within the pickup community had invented was has to be the gayest pickup mentality the pickup community has known.

Let me tell you why the Traffic Lights Method is so gay.

First, in case you have no idea what the heck I am talking about, here's what the Traffic Lights Method says:

....

There are three kinds of girls out there:

1. GREENS, who are girls who are looking for you. These girls want you, are very compliant with you, and will happily go with you. These are the girls you want to find.
   
   
2. YELLOWS, who are girls who are on the fence about you. Maybe you can get them, but it is going to be a slog.
   
   
3. REDS, who are girls who are not interested in you at all. You are never going to pick these girls up for a same-night lay. Maybe you could sleep with such a girl over a series of dates. But it is going to take a lot of effort and probably isn't worth it.

....

Originally, @Grand Pooba, who is a very good guy and is skilled (though still has some things he is working on to reach a really advanced level -- but he is good, good guy with some decent game) wrote a post on Traffic Lights for Girls Chase. He originally got it from @Pablo ”Pelusita” Garcia, and from what I gather a little got lost in translation. At the time, I saw the article go up, and it gave me a "Huh? Girls you CANNOT get?" double take, but then I kind of shook it off and said "Well, GP is still learning, and there are a lot of guys who are learning too, and maybe that is helpful for them to think or something." We had stuff going up through BT at that point (I wasn't reading every single article that hit the site) so the days when I directly line-by-line read everything and took issue with anything I felt might lead guys a little astray was past.

Since then it has morphed into this whole other thing, apparently out of Pooba's control. Guys are forming an entire methodology around Traffic Lights, and the methodology they are forming is dumb.

They are starting to argue this stuff everywhere, and are telling people they are wrong for not driving their seduce-o-mobiles to the tune of the all powerful Traffic Lights.

Pretty soon we will be arguing the esoteric principles of Traffic Lights: "I wouldn't say that girl was a Red. More like a deep Mauve, with shades of Aquamarine."

However, let me tell you why this method (all apologies to the guys who have advocated or discussed various iterations of it) is a burning dumpster fire of a pickup method.


WHY TRAFFIC LIGHTS IS SOME REAL WEAK SAUCE

In the early, most innovative days of the seduction community, PSYCHOLOGY ruled all. Guys read books like Influence and Nancy Friday and Frogs Into Princes and adapted brilliant, potent, and often subtle techniques from them.

There was a simple understanding among early PUA that psychology was IMPORTANT. And frame control ruled all.

The frames you set influenced not only how the woman thinks and behave, but also how you do.

One of the most important frames a man must have is "I am the prize." (credit for that goes to Swinggcat, another old hand of the seduction world)

A seducer needs to believe that women should be fighting to get HIM.

He needs to be a guy whom girls chase, and who knows that girls chase him, and expects them to.

Now, we all know that in normal male-female mating dynamics, the woman is the chooser.

Which is the point of why the PUA makes himself into the prize: he is inverting the usual mating dynamic, and putting himself in the prize position.

Prizing makes a woman's readiness/responsiveness less relevant. Through prizing, the PUA chooses the woman he wants, and begins to work his magic on leading her to see him as the prize she must possess.

What I have taught guys over the years is to read women's signals and be responsive to them.

To plan their strategies around them.

And to know that if she is non-compliant, you are either going to have your work cut out for you, or maybe you will want to move on and find a more willing girl.

What I am seeing from the Traffic Lights Evangelists however is that:

1. Some girls ("REDS") just DO NOT want you
   
   
2. You are probably NEVER going to get REDS
   
   
3. These "REDS" have already rejected you in their minds. And you just need to accept that and move on until you find a woman who isn't rejecting you

This is a subtle thing, but read through that, and try to think about that while also thinking "I am the prize."

Do you feel like "the prize" when you read that?

Or do you feel like "not the prize", and rather some guy who is going to have to slink around, trying to find the one girl who doesn't realize he's not the prize?

I know guys struggle with all kinds of issues, self-esteem things, confidence, and whatnot. And maybe a system where the guy can straight up say, "Look, I'm not the prize. I know I'm not the prize. But I can still find girls who want me," makes him feel good.

I actually am okay with that.

SO LONG AS HE KEEPS IT TO HIMSELF.

Instead the situation we have on here is a collection of guys, hewing to this pussy-ass "I am not the prize" B.S. "I have to find the girl who's not rejecting me" garbage, designed for guys with self-esteem issues, who are going around and telling OUR SENIOR MEMBERS, GUYS WITH DECADES OF EXPERIENCE IN THE FIELD AND HUNDREDS OF LAYS APIECE, WHO FULLY SEE THEMSELVES AS THE PRIZE, AND WHOM WOMEN DO TOO, THAT THEY HAVE IT ALL WRONG AND ACTUALLY THEY ARE NOT THE PRIZE AND REALLY SHOULD USE THIS TRAFFIC LIGHT SYSTEM, OR MAYBE ALREADY ARE.

And man, that level of faggotry is mind-boggling.

I think at some level the guys who are doing this realize it is a cope.

They realize some girls are "off limits" to them, and to feel better about it, they want to see if they can get these senior guys to admit that some girls are off limits to them as well.

There is a dissonance there, these junior guys with self-esteem issues looking at senior guys who believe anything is possible.

They want the senior guys to say "No it is not possible after all."

Or they want them to say "You're right, Junior Man. You were right all along."

And that is just some next-level gay-ass shit.

That is some real dick-in-the-ass, cock-in-the-mouth, stimulate-my-prostate-with-your-glans twink shit, let me tell you.

It is WOMANLY.

Women do this.

I have had girlfriends do it to me.

They nag you and nag you and nag you about how all this shit you are doing, that is totally simple for you and that you have done a million times before, is impossible.

They will argue and fight with you, trying to tell you that you are wrong.

And boy, it is maddening.

When you do the thing, rarely do they say, "You know what Chase, I was totally wrong. Turns out you CAN do the thing."

Instead they come up with an excuse for why you didn't REALLY do the thing. Or they will say you're exaggerating when you remind them about the yelling and nagging they did trying to get you to not do the thing and "accept your limitations."

I know some of you guys have been beaten down by life.

My heart goes out to you.

Real talk here. I started Girls Chase because I wanted to help guys who were frustrated and dealing with the "I just can't make this work" issues and who were struggling with failure. Because I've been there.

99.6% of the guys in our audience and community are amazing, wonderful, gracious men who accept the help they came here to accept and are respectful to the men who give it. The men in this community are why, overall, this place is so great.

And these guys who are doing this stupid faggoty proselytizing are good guys too... except they have a big faggoty stick up their asses, and/or have some sort of social calibration issue, or extreme issues with authority.


THIS PROBLEM WITH AUTHORITY

I get that too. Everybody who gets any good with girls is going to be a rebel who strains against authority.

And having a healthy dialogue with your superiors is a normal and good thing to do. Confucius, who is probably the ultimate expert on how things need to work in a hierarchical system to maintain harmony throughout, requires subordinates to sometimes remonstrate with their superiors.

The thing is, this must be done TACTFULLY and RESPECTFULLY.

Arguing that you should be able to be an entitled dick because senior members "should not have an ego about this" or "shouldn't get defensive" is just lack of calibration.

Can you sign up for the army, then start criticizing your drill instructor, and he is just going to sit there with a calm smile on his face while you tell him he is going about drill instruction all wrong?

NO! He is going to give you 300 pushups and have you on janitorial detail for a month.

Can you join a new company, then call up the CEO to tell him his strategy is awful and if he really thinks about it he will realize he needs to be doing what you recommend?

Not unless you want to go back onto the unemployment line.

However, I am seeing more and more of this these days. There is an almost epidemic of anti-authority thinking among North Americans and, to a lesser extent, Western Europeans.

It has been this way for decades. But it is getting worse.

Starting back to when I was a young guy busting tires in an auto shop, I was always super respectful to my bosses, to the point of deference. Anything they told me to do, I would immediately get to work on it. I was not a brainless gofer; if they asked me to do something dumb, or something that was going to cause problems, I would point it out to them in a RESPECTFUL, tactful way. And because of how I broached the issue, they would consider it, and usually agree I was right and switch things up. Or they would point out what I was missing and I would see why they told me to do what they had. This led to a relationship of mutual respect between my superiors and me, that led to them taking me under their wings, mentoring me, and putting me on the fast track for advancement.

There were always other guys who had been there longer than I had, and they saw me getting mentored and saw me leap over them for promotions, and they hated it. They could not understand it. Some of them thought I was a kiss ass (I wasn't. I don't think I ever once flattered or complimented a superior). Some just thought there was some kind of favoritism they couldn't parse. But universally, these guys who got passed over were assholes who would argue with their superiors and had sticks up their asses. They thought they were smarter than the guys above them (but they weren't).

I took this same attitude into the seduction community, and it led to me getting mentored extensively online as well as extensively IN-PERSON by some of the most talented naturals and pick up artists there were.

This is not a fluke. I am not doing anything special. Everything I have done is spelled out in this article, and you can do it yourself:

How to Find a Mentor

We recently had a younger member of our discussion boards throw something of a temper tantrum there because he’d apparently been desperately trying to get my personal attention, but not succeeded, and became bitter and resentful toward me. I simply haven’t been on the boards a huge amount...

www.girlschase.com

There have been a bunch of articles over the years on the "decline of civility." While the media often spins things into trends that aren't really trends, this one actually is one. People, in general, are less civil. I have seen it distinctly as the years have gone by.

Politics is a good example. The amount of vitriol you can see between different political parties is striking. This was also not something you ever saw in the recent past. People can try to blame it on one figure or the other, but it is a systemic issue. Politicians and media have been heavily smearing their opponents for decades. And, true, smear campaigns in general are an immemorial part of politics. Julius Caesar faced accusations that he was the gay bottom to his mentor in Gaul. But at the time Caesar was getting smeared this way, Roman civility had declined so far that people got clubbed by mobs on their ways to the Roman Senate. It seems we are much closer to that these days than we are the civility of early 20th Century U.S. or Europe.

Regardless the current state of things though... whether it is due to declining social calibration due to folks being in front of screens too much... or to some gradual fraying of the social fabric...

I cannot run an anarchical forum.

There is no way to do it.

I cannot do a forum where we abolish rank and seniority and everyone just argues all the time about everything.

They tried that over at nextASF.

You know how that went (the place is gone).

They do that over at Seddit (Reddit's "seduction" board).

You know how that goes (the place is a hodgepodge of clueless newbies giving each other tepid advice, because no advanced guy gets enough respect for it to be worth it to him to stick around).

I am not going to run a place where retards and amateurs get to push around the senior members and be assholes and preach limp shit like "Red light, green light."

So here's how we're going to do it.

If you CANNOT deal with senior members in any kind of civil way, and you are going to be a rude, scabrous asshole with your superiors, first I am going to demote you.

I have demoted the two idiots who ran off Razorjack. One of them was a Tribal Elder who behaved, across threads, and to multiple senior members of the Boards, in distinctly un-elder-like ways. So he has gone back down a few ranks, until I see his behavior actually warrants a higher rank.

The other was an entry level guy, who had only recently joined yet got quickly promoted. Well, now he has been just as quickly demoted, back to Space Monkey, where he will remain until I see a bit more self-reflection from him than what I have so far seen.

In the future, if I demote you and you continue to bother senior members after, to the point that demotion is not enough, in that case I will simply ban you.

After that you can go hang out on /r/Seduction, or SoSuave.net, or one of the other boards... if there are still other boards left out there.

This whole stupid "rebel against authority!" ethos of the modern era is not going to work here.

Sorry.

You either need to get with the program, or you can go on Tumblr and moan about how those assholes at Skilled Seducer are too strict and they make you be civil and polite and mannerly... UGH!


A PARTING NOTE ON SENIORITY

Sometimes senior members might be harsh with you.

No doubt you have noticed my language in this post is harsher than usual.

When a senior member does this, he does it out of LOVE, not out of spite.

You are not to do it back to him.

Junior members, who are not highly experienced, and not in a position of authority, are not doing the same thing when they try to "be tough" with an authority.

When the drill instructor is hard on you, it is because he is trying to get you into shape. If you, the private, start trying to be hard on HIM, everybody knows it is just because you are trying to assert some power and push back. These are very different motives.

And that is why the drill instructor can call you a maggot, and a peabrain, and numbnuts, and you just have to take it.

I think because usually I am gentle with guys, some guys on here see that, and then some of the other senior members here are harsher, and the guys who are used to my gentleness get their hackles up and think they need to fight back.

I do not want you fighting back against senior members.

If you know whom the MOST SENIOR MEMBERS are on the Boards, then you know who can be a little tougher with you, or call you on things he sees as bullshit, and with whom you must hold your tongue and mind your manners in how you respond to, even if you think he was too much of a dick. (you can ASK him to be less of a dick, in nicer words than this; but you should not BE a dick to HIM)

And if you do NOT know whom the most senior members are... then you just need to be humble to everybody until you figure out who's who around here.

That is how stuff works in a community.

You come in, you keep your head down, you figure out who everybody is, and once you do, you're extra humble to the guys on top.

If you can't do that -- if you want to come in, and try to lead a rebellion, or evangelize and convert or kick out folks who won't get with your program -- that is just never going to fly so long as there is halfway decent leadership around in any capacity.

One last thing I will say before I end this post.

You should be looking for women's signals.

You should be compliance testing to find out how into you women are.

You should make INFORMED decisions about a woman's APPARENT level of receptiveness to you vs. the amount of time you have, what your goals are, and how good you are.

But you should not be thinking about things in any kind of way that revolves around seeking women's approval or disapproval of your approach.

You should not be monitoring to figure out "which girls are giving me the red light" or "which girls don't want me."

You should not be doing ANYTHING that steers you away from thinking "I AM THE PRIZE."

Because it is your world you are in, and in your world, you ought to be the prize.

As simplified as we've tried to make everything on Girls Chase, the point was always to get girls to chase.

Not "green girls to chase." Not "only the girls who want you to chase."

But any girl.

That is what seduction is.

To seduce is to take a mind -- sometimes even a closed mind, or an initially unwilling mind -- and lead it to a place where it has come around to see your way of thinking about things.

If you can take a girl who is not initially into you, and maybe thought she might never be into you, and you can bring her around to seeing and appreciating your attractive qualities, enough that you can lead her to your bed and into intimacy, then you are a man who has become, truly, a skilled seducer.

Chase

 

[YS.]

Wow. #preach

Hope Razorjack comes back. The guy was a pleasure to read and learn from.

 

[Skills]

The moderators with all due respect are a bit accountable.... There should have stepped in (just like you did chase), when there were a lot of none sense spoken, derailed, kj, strawman,lack of calibration and there should have been a drop in rank, when a lot of silliness was being spouted.... (everybody should be accountable when it comes to rank,everybody regardless of friendships)

About the traffic light system, the history of the traffic light system was designed about 10-15 years ago when there was popularity in what is called screening game (the basis was going to a venue and targeting women that were dtf, were you would spent minimal time with the interaction, which is typically no more than 15-20 minutes, going to a venue and look for girls, that are very receptive to you to pull(60 yoc, gll, coby, mark manson, sleazy, me, gunwitch original and a bunch of others were big on that, the focus was minimal to no verbal and heavy sexual kino/escalation).... There was a period were this took off and it was very effective (now a days it will not work as it used to work back in the days as well cause of girls are getting that from dating sites)....

The goal was to help newer guys as a way of dumming down and use the right strategy in the situation depending on where the girl was at in the interaction, back then you had guys were girls were like "fuck me already" and they kept overgaming, or girls were they had 0 chance and they kept wasting the time with those girls.... (The whole thing was taken out of context and became a mess in that post), it was just similar to a modern version of go fuck 10 other girls......... here how it was intended to be used:


"If you read the modern seduction books for example models, 60yoc, Aaron Sleazy, Mode one, my book etc… You will hear a lot about screening and the 3 types of women, the reason i bring this up is that dudes pm me or ask me questions on what to do with women that are already interested,more on this later, this is basic info. that most seducers know but i will bring it up again cause it seems that is not that obvious to many of you, and i notice guys use the wrong strategy with many of them, so they fuck it up…so here we go:

Interested, receptive, green light, buyer: these girls are attracted to you, and want you. You do not need to be gimmicky or to impress them or any of that crap. All you need to do is in text, facebook, chat(set up a meet asap), in person(escalate). So the strategy here is not to game them they like you already, the strategy is to close them while they are hot and not fuck it up. My analogy, buyer i came here to buy a Mercedes and i want to pay cash for it were do i sign…. Salesman: Listen let me show you the features, and these are the reasons why you need to buy it, lets go and test drive it blah blah blah blah blah blah…. Ends up killing the sale… I sale for living so i have seen this happening multiple times. All he had to do is take out the order and say excellent decision, lets start the paperwork so you can start enjoying your car asap. This will be about 10% of the female population. So out of 100 girls, 10 of them. This women will laugh at your stupid ass jokes, flirt, do sex talk, reciprocate your escalation, ask questions about yourself, give you their number, request you on facebook, give you the look, give you open body language, blush, try to get your attention, cock-block other women, look away right away when they see you, follow you around, find excuses to bump into you, give you proximity, qualify themselves etc….. She is a bit more invested in you than you are in her, good situation to be in, your job is not to fuck it up, simple, and escalate fast and take things sexual. Lately, in my personal game i only deal with these girls, since i am were i want to be when it comes to women, so if you have an abundance of other women, these are the ones you want to look for.(advance level)

Neutral women: These girls may be attracted to you or not, but she is on the fence, she is less typically invested in you than you are in her, she needs more information. With these women the goal is not to play it safe but to force/push/polarize her to either be no interested, red, unreceptive, or to be receptive, green light, buyer. The best way to do this in my opinion is by escalating, not being needy, displaying attractive qualities, and a bit of physical persistence. This is why i get into fights with dudes that say there is not text game etc… Here you can not really push for a met up right away, since she is not really ready at this point…. What you do not want to do here, is be fake, and gimmicky that shit don’t work. And definitely you do not want to play it safe “to get a girl you must be willing to lose a girl”, signs: She does not chase, she gives you neutral body language, you escalate she does not reciprocate but does not move away etc… With time and experience you will get a feel for them, this is were seduction comes into play. This will be about 40% of the female population. In sells for example i don’t have enough money to buy this mercedes? sells dude: i can appreciate that do me a favor and put your money, away, now have you considered the fact that mercedes require the least maintenance, and last 20 more years than a toyota or a nissan, when you take that into acct. you are getting a mercedes for the price of the nissan, also we got great financing which makes it affordable for your budget, if we do biz today how much would be willing to invest for this unbelievable piece of machinery?

Not interested, red, no receptive: These women are a freaking waste of time, they usually have a bf, or like somebody else, or you are not their type, or they don’t like your personality and style, or they were neutral and now they are not interested(happens to a lot of you do to your neediness and weak ass game). These women will put you in the “friendzone” or in my new concept “a nothing(not a friend, not a buddy a 0)”. These girls are possible to convert(my current gf went from neutral to not interested due to my neediness with her), but the amount of effort and work is not worth it. These girls will tell you they have a boyfriend, walk away, be flaky as fuck, talk to you about other dudes they like, get annoyed by you, tell you to fuck your self, give you fake numbers, try to go the other way when they see you, treat you rude etc… These girls are a huge waste of time(but skills, you said your gf, was in this category, are you being a hypocrite? no, cause i stop wasting my time with her, and got other women, then she came back to me as interested)…. example: client: i do not have money, i work in macdonalds at 7 an hour there is no way i can afford this vehicle. This is about 50% of women"



^ As you can see the goal of the post on compliance, was never with the intent of teevester teaching newer guys to screen women on a night club for fast lays....

The goal of teevester in that post was more of an advance conversation in were he wanted to show how to fuck women that were not attracted to you from the get go, and that a screener would consider a red aka you did not register in her radar, you had 0 investment etc... via compliance.... Unfortunately teevester in the post in the right context was using the traffic light system (when he was referring to red, to make his points more understandable/context)

^ the amazing hall of fame type post was converted in a redundant all over the place crap fest silly convo. were most people were being just repetitive and doubling down and a retarded discussion on what is a red, what is a yellow what is purple total nonesense...


P.s. I am trying to get in touch with razor jack to see if he can come back via pm...

 

[YS.]

The moderators with all due respect are a bit accountable.... There should have stepped in (just like you did chase), when there were a lot of none sense spoken, derailed, kj, strawman,lack of calibration and there should have been a drop in rank, when a lot of silliness was being spouted.... (everybody should be accountable when it comes to rank,everybody regardless of friendships)

About the traffic light system, the history of the traffic light system was designed about 10-15 years ago when there was popularity in what is called screening game (the basis was going to a venue and targeting women that were dtf, were you would spent minimal time with the interaction, which is typically no more than 15-20 minutes, going to a venue and look for girls, that are very receptive to you to pull(60 yoc, gll, coby, mark manson, sleazy, me, gunwitch original and a bunch of others were big on that, the focus was minimal to no verbal and heavy sexual kino/escalation).... There was a period were this took off and it was very effective (now a days it will not work as it used to work back in the days as well cause of girls are getting that from dating sites)....

The goal was to help newer guys as a way of dumming down and use the right strategy in the situation depending on where the girl was at in the interaction, back then you had guys were girls were like "fuck me already" and they kept overgaming, or girls were they had 0 chance and they kept wasting the time with those girls.... (The whole thing was taken out of context and became a mess in that post), it was just similar to a modern version of go fuck 10 other girls......... here how it was intended to be used:


"If you read the modern seduction books for example models, 60yoc, Aaron Sleazy, Mode one, my book etc… You will hear a lot about screening and the 3 types of women, the reason i bring this up is that dudes pm me or ask me questions on what to do with women that are already interested,more on this later, this is basic info. that most seducers know but i will bring it up again cause it seems that is not that obvious to many of you, and i notice guys use the wrong strategy with many of them, so they fuck it up…so here we go:

Interested, receptive, green light, buyer: these girls are attracted to you, and want you. You do not need to be gimmicky or to impress them or any of that crap. All you need to do is in text, facebook, chat(set up a meet asap), in person(escalate). So the strategy here is not to game them they like you already, the strategy is to close them while they are hot and not fuck it up. My analogy, buyer i came here to buy a Mercedes and i want to pay cash for it were do i sign…. Salesman: Listen let me show you the features, and these are the reasons why you need to buy it, lets go and test drive it blah blah blah blah blah blah…. Ends up killing the sale… I sale for living so i have seen this happening multiple times. All he had to do is take out the order and say excellent decision, lets start the paperwork so you can start enjoying your car asap. This will be about 10% of the female population. So out of 100 girls, 10 of them. This women will laugh at your stupid ass jokes, flirt, do sex talk, reciprocate your escalation, ask questions about yourself, give you their number, request you on facebook, give you the look, give you open body language, blush, try to get your attention, cock-block other women, look away right away when they see you, follow you around, find excuses to bump into you, give you proximity, qualify themselves etc….. She is a bit more invested in you than you are in her, good situation to be in, your job is not to fuck it up, simple, and escalate fast and take things sexual. Lately, in my personal game i only deal with these girls, since i am were i want to be when it comes to women, so if you have an abundance of other women, these are the ones you want to look for.(advance level)

Neutral women: These girls may be attracted to you or not, but she is on the fence, she is less typically invested in you than you are in her, she needs more information. With these women the goal is not to play it safe but to force/push/polarize her to either be no interested, red, unreceptive, or to be receptive, green light, buyer. The best way to do this in my opinion is by escalating, not being needy, displaying attractive qualities, and a bit of physical persistence. This is why i get into fights with dudes that say there is not text game etc… Here you can not really push for a met up right away, since she is not really ready at this point…. What you do not want to do here, is be fake, and gimmicky that shit don’t work. And definitely you do not want to play it safe “to get a girl you must be willing to lose a girl”, signs: She does not chase, she gives you neutral body language, you escalate she does not reciprocate but does not move away etc… With time and experience you will get a feel for them, this is were seduction comes into play. This will be about 40% of the female population. In sells for example i don’t have enough money to buy this mercedes? sells dude: i can appreciate that do me a favor and put your money, away, now have you considered the fact that mercedes require the least maintenance, and last 20 more years than a toyota or a nissan, when you take that into acct. you are getting a mercedes for the price of the nissan, also we got great financing which makes it affordable for your budget, if we do biz today how much would be willing to invest for this unbelievable piece of machinery?

Not interested, red, no receptive: These women are a freaking waste of time, they usually have a bf, or like somebody else, or you are not their type, or they don’t like your personality and style, or they were neutral and now they are not interested(happens to a lot of you do to your neediness and weak ass game). These women will put you in the “friendzone” or in my new concept “a nothing(not a friend, not a buddy a 0)”. These girls are possible to convert(my current gf went from neutral to not interested due to my neediness with her), but the amount of effort and work is not worth it. These girls will tell you they have a boyfriend, walk away, be flaky as fuck, talk to you about other dudes they like, get annoyed by you, tell you to fuck your self, give you fake numbers, try to go the other way when they see you, treat you rude etc… These girls are a huge waste of time(but skills, you said your gf, was in this category, are you being a hypocrite? no, cause i stop wasting my time with her, and got other women, then she came back to me as interested)…. example: client: i do not have money, i work in macdonalds at 7 an hour there is no way i can afford this vehicle. This is about 50% of women"



^ As you can see the goal of the post on compliance, was never with the intent of teevester teaching newer guys to screen women on a night club for fast lays....

The goal of teevester in that post was more of an advance conversation in were he wanted to show how to fuck women that were not attracted to you from the get go, and that a screener would consider a red aka you did not register in her radar, you had 0 investment etc... via compliance.... Unfortunately teevester in the post in the right context was using the traffic light system (when he was referring to red, to make his points more understandable/context)

^ the amazing hall of fame type post was converted in a redundant all over the place crap fest silly convo. were most people were being just repetitive and doubling down and a retarded discussion on what is a red, what is a yellow what is purple total nonesense...


P.s. I am trying to get in touch with razor jack to see if he can come back via pm...

I do not know why the mods don't step in when very good threads derail into basic limiting belief discussions completely unrelated to the original topic.

 

[Chase]

The moderators with all due respect are a bit accountable.... There should have stepped in (just like you did chase), when there were a lot of none sense spoken, derailed, kj, strawman,lack of calibration and there should have been a drop in rank, when a lot of silliness was being spouted.... (everybody should be accountable when it comes to rank,everybody regardless of friendships)

I do not know why the mods don't step in when very good threads derail into basic limiting belief discussions completely unrelated to the original topic.

I'll talk about this with the other mods.

However, keep in mind that mods do not always read every single post that goes up on the Boards.

They do, however, take a close look at EVERYTHING that gets reported.

There is a little link at the bottom of every post that says "Report." If you report it, we will see the post in question, as well as any comments you have about it.

If you see a thread getting derailed, or you see someone being flame warred or trolled on here, I'd ask everybody on the Boards: please REPORT it.

We are not going to go after guys for stupid stuff like they do on Twitter or whatever. Rather, this is a way we can stay on top of anywhere things are going uncivil or going off the rails.

We can split threads and move posts that are going off-topic into their own threads, we can censure guys who are causing problems, or warn them, or demote them.

If you see it, report it, and the mods will take it from there.

Chase

 

[Skills]

I do not know why the mods don't step in when very good threads derail into basic limiting belief discussions completely unrelated to the original topic.

- guy in question is very good and gets laid (verifiable) a lot and is an excellent poster
- friendships

^ but that should not affect moderation


By the way i love the guy in question, but jump into another post that was tailor for rj to stir shut up, that was the mistake.

 

[Skills]

I'll talk about this with the other mods.

However, keep in mind that mods do not always read every single post that goes up on the Boards.

They do, however, take a close look at EVERYTHING that gets reported.

There is a little link at the bottom of every post that says "Report." If you report it, we will see the post in question, as well as any comments you have about it.

If you see a thread getting derailed, or you see someone being flame warred or trolled on here, I'd ask everybody on the Boards: please REPORT it.

We are not going to go after guys for stupid stuff like they do on Twitter or whatever. Rather, this is a way we can stay on top of anywhere things are going uncivil or going off the rails.

We can split threads and move posts that are going off-topic into their own threads, we can censure guys who are causing problems, or warn them, or demote them.

If you see it, report it, and the mods will take it from there.

Chase

i personally don't like to report posts, just not me... i rather go in the post and confront the person in a nice way (which i did numerous times)

 

[YS.]

I'll talk about this with the other mods.

However, keep in mind that mods do not always read every single post that goes up on the Boards.

They do, however, take a close look at EVERYTHING that gets reported.

There is a little link at the bottom of every post that says "Report." If you report it, we will see the post in question, as well as any comments you have about it.

If you see a thread getting derailed, or you see someone being flame warred or trolled on here, I'd ask everybody on the Boards: please REPORT it.

We are not going to go after guys for stupid stuff like they do on Twitter or whatever. Rather, this is a way we can stay on top of anywhere things are going uncivil or going off the rails.

We can split threads and move posts that are going off-topic into their own threads, we can censure guys who are causing problems, or warn them, or demote them.

If you see it, report it, and the mods will take it from there.

Chase

It's hard to pinpoint from whom, when and how a thread is derailed but it turns into an avalanche. If a response is completely unrelated I will start flagging them but usually what happens is someone writes a related post with a completely asenine small idea in it and everybody just starts arguing over the idea.

(Like Tank's ideas of social value in the corporate image/game personality thread completely derailed it for 3 pages. There are like 6-7 on topic responses in that 5-6 page thread, lol.)

The post he had that derailed the thread was actually on topic. I don't know the specifics on that and I don't want to put anyone under the bus but the thread derailing thing is so fucking annoying.

I'll be very liberal with the flagging feature from now on.

 

[Velasco]

Do you feel like "the prize" when you read that?

Or do you feel like "not the prize", and rather some guy who is going to have to slink around, trying to find the one girl who doesn't realize he's not the prize?

You have to go and talk to girls.

The first girl probably won't be into you. That's okay. She's like putting your foot on a stepping stone across a pond. She's stone #1.

She didn't bite, but you feel a little better now that you've made that first step.

Then you see another girl who looks good to talk to. So you approach her. She doesn't bite either. No big deal. Another step made across the pond.

You approach another girl. No interest. Another step.

You know you're cool. Your fundamentals are good. You're warming up and feeling more comfortable talking to women. Even if you haven't sucked any of these girls in, the fear and freezing up has fallen away.

Finally, you approach a girl, and this one bites.

She digs you.

A minute of conversation, and she's firmly hooked in. You're across the pond.

Approach Anxiety: 1 Simple Mindset Flip to Talk to More Girls

You won't always be super active with approaching new women. You'll go through stretches where you're focused on work or other things. You might only approach opportunistically, to girls who show a lot of interest. Or you might break off approaching entirely for a time. After you take a little...

www.girlschase.com

You are never going to pick these girls up for a same-night lay. Maybe you could sleep with such a girl over a series of dates. But it is going to take a lot of effort and probably isn't worth it.

Isn't there a way to get all women? Any woman you want? No matter how she feels (at first)?

With sufficient time, fundamentals, and skill, you could conceivably get most women.

However, the difference in the time requirements between women who don't immediately want to sleep with you versus women who do is a vast one.

For all practical purposes, in most scenarios women who don't want you right away are out of the running. Instead, you want to focus on women who do.

Girls Who Want to Sleep with You Usually Know It Right Away

When you walk up, and she looks up at you, she knows if she could go to bed with you later. What comes after is simply leading her there, and making her feel allowed to go. There are two schools of thought when it comes to sex. One school of thought is what you might call the 'normal guy...

www.girlschase.com

I am not going to run a place where retards and amateurs get to push around the senior members and be assholes and preach limp shit like "Red light, green light."

Podcast with the Girls Chase Seduction A-Team: Lessons from Stockholm

Welcome back to another episode of Dating Mechanics! For this podcast, I have something different and special for you. A few of us Girls Chase authors met up in Stockholm, Sweden this past summer for a few days and nights. We met up with each other (some for the first time), met plenty of women...

www.girlschase.com

Everything I've written about has come from reading GirlsChase. I thought rejections were normal. That you can't get every girl (when I say this I am referring the a same night lay). It is what it is. And then I read shit by guys with 10+ years more experience than me (you and Pablo) and then it just confirms my experience. Doesn't make me feel like crap that I can only SNL girls that give me a chance to seduce them (as in I can have a conversation with them, not that they are all over me wanting to fuck me right away. Because I put a lot of work to seduce these girls (as Teevster said, in that attraction thread, just because she's a green doesn't mean it will be an easy pull. And I agree 100% because this is my experience) and not the girls that turn away/walk away from me.

So my mistake was not realizing that the articles written on GirlsChase (except Bacchus and Teevster's articles. Because they told me their articles are written specifically for advanced readers) are written for the average man who wants to get laid with hot girls. Not advanced guys who want to get laid with girls who flat out don't like them (could be your vibe, looks, etc), and then turning that around.

 

[Velasco]

By the way i love the guy in question, but jump into another post that was tailor for rj to stir shut up, that was the mistake.

lol I love you too bro <3 (no homo)

 

[BigPapa]

Originally, @Grand Pooba, who is a very good guy and is skilled (though still has some things he is working on to reach a really advanced level -- but he is good, good guy with some decent game)

I do not want you fighting back against senior members.

If you know whom the MOST SENIOR MEMBERS are on the Boards, then you know who can be a little tougher with you, or call you on things he sees as bullshit, and with whom you must hold your tongue and mind your manners in how you respond to, even if you think he was too much of a dick. (you can ASK him to be less of a dick, in nicer words than this; but you should not BE a dick to HIM)

And if you do NOT know whom the most senior members are... then you just need to be humble to everybody until you figure out who's who around here.

That is how stuff works in a community.

You come in, you keep your head down, you figure out who everybody is, and once you do, you're extra humble to the guys on top.

If you can't do that -- if you want to come in, and try to lead a rebellion, or evangelize and convert or kick out folks who won't get with your program -- that is just never going to fly so long as there is halfway decent leadership around in any capacity.

I totally agree with what you are saying ,but can you please elaborate on what exactly counts as a senior member ( basically people that we have to be extra humble to ) ?

Basically everyone that has the rank of "elder" or "chieftain" is counted as a senior member , or also other ranks count towards being considered a senior member as well ?

 

[jonjames]

Hi guys I’m new here. Ive heard the stop light theory before. What is the argument against it? To me it seems like a waste of time chasing girls with no interest. I’ve seen a lot of guys become heartbroken over liking someone and the feelings not being reciprocated. I’ve been around pickup some and aim to have an abundance mentality.

I’m still new to it all, though. What is the goal of turning a so-called “red light girl” green? Is that an underlying philosophy of this site? That is not a goal of mine but this post makes me wonder if I am in the wrong place. I’m just trying to get better with girls. I don’t want to trick anyone into liking me.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I'll comment on the traffic light method later but I did want to put something on the able to this whole seniority thing. At times in the past, I've noticed that newer members who have never really utilized the field reports section to show that they are trying to improve their luck with women (whichever method that may be through) are the main ones going around being overly critical of certain senior members or just wasting time on nonsense philosophy or OT threads. This is something I see in other sites as well, though I do not visit them often, guys are there to just waste time and then adopt the whole "more to life than pussy" mentality. At times, it can get under some people's skins and they can feel like "who is this guy to call me out?".

So yeah there is more to life than pussy right? Well yeah but why are you on a fucking dating and seduction forum if there is more to life than pussy? Go join a stock trader, career advice, or some other kind of forum!

Now this is where I get a bit lost because I am here thinking it should not work like that. If you are newer here, you should not be wasting your time doing that.

So here is what I think can be one way to vet better in the future, if it really comes to it.

1. If you're new here, you can only post on the Beginners section for a certain amount of time.

2. You must have certain amount of posts in the field report section whether it is doing an approach, going on a date, or getting laid. Hell, I'd say a lay report be in order first.

3. After 1 and 2, whatever standards are set, you can now post on the general section because you have shown you're serious about this and taking action.

I've been under a shitload of fire in recent months for butting heads with senior members, even mods, but I put in a shitload of work in the past few years to get to where I needed to get to. It was painful, I butted heads with guys I now respect, but in the end I think ultimately, it should be about taking action unless you are at a level of a Tribal Elder.

Peace out, I keep telling myself I'll avoid this section but damn @Chase you do make people change their ways fast!

 

[Mike Silvertree]

@BigPapa:
I totally agree with what you are saying ,but can you please elaborate on what exactly counts as a senior member ( basically people that we have to be extra humble to ) ?

No one is asking you to be humble, just converse with people in a polite and friendly manner. A confrontational attitude and passive aggressive snark is the exact opposite of what we expect from everyone.

 

[Mike Silvertree]

I want to second what Chase said. Report posts where people are being annoying or rude or are hijacking the conversation. Every reported post gets detailed attention by the Mods. We discuss it, and then do anything from nothing to banning those whose behavior warrants it. For example, I read the threads in question that turned problematic, at a point where they were just fine, and had not revisited them until they were reported.

If you try, you can make almost any point in a polite way. It is the most effective way to convince others of the validity of your position.

We really frown on threadjacking. Inserting off topic comments into a thread derails the original conversation. Please start a new thread on that topic instead. And it really helps if the title of a thread tells people what is in your original post.

I just want to offer a bit of advice to the senior posters. I have been posting on various forums for 24 years. On other forums I have been one of the dispensers of knowledge and writers of great threads. It is almost inevitable that you are going to get doofus replies, people who get the exact opposite message from what you meant, and off topic posts in any great thread. The best way to respond to that is to ignore the idiots, report them to the Mods, and continue your conversation with those who are on topic and civil.

 

[Mike Silvertree]

@jonjames:
Hi guys I’m new here. Ive heard the stop light theory before. What is the argument against it?

Chase's post is not really against it. Read it again.
@Chase:Lately there have been a few lame, dumb movements on the Boards. These movements are:

1. Members who think they are hot shots because they follow the Traffic Light Method, who then go and argue with everyone else about it, trying to proselytize this Revolutionary New Method

Basically the Red - Green continuum is one of many characteristics a woman has that you use to decide if she is worth the effort, similar to evaluating how hot she is or if she is alone or with friends. It is not a system of seduction in itself.

But the post is about those who have been hijacking threads about other seduction topics to bring this topic into the discussion.

Here is a really good introduction to the topic. (See, we are not against discussing it, just not in threads about something else.)

The Red-Yellow-Green Continuum

I was going to post this in advanced, but I think an open discussion on this topic would be better. In this post I'd like to clarify a number of things, among which is a definition. . . or perhaps a re-definition of what a Red girl is. Because my goal is for this thread to inspire some change...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Chase]

@YS.,

It's hard to pinpoint from whom, when and how a thread is derailed but it turns into an avalanche. If a response is completely unrelated I will start flagging them but usually what happens is someone writes a related post with a completely asenine small idea in it and everybody just starts arguing over the idea.

(Like Tank's ideas of social value in the corporate image/game personality thread completely derailed it for 3 pages. There are like 6-7 on topic responses in that 5-6 page thread, lol.)

The post he had that derailed the thread was actually on topic. I don't know the specifics on that and I don't want to put anyone under the bus but the thread derailing thing is so fucking annoying.

I'll be very liberal with the flagging feature from now on.

Yeah, I know, it's almost impossible to predict when a thread will go off the rails.

If you or anyone do see it though, please flag it. I'd prefer to catch this stuff early on, before people start blowing up at each other, or guys start hounding each other, so we can talk to them and chill things out before the avalanche buries a ski resort (cheers for saying you'd flag more).

(it's also a situation where if guys are in the habit of reporting bad behavior, they are going to self-regulate to regular forum standards... such as "no flame warring", which was what happened in this case... a flame war)


@Velasco,

Everything I've written about has come from reading GirlsChase. I thought rejections were normal. That you can't get every girl (when I say this I am referring the a same night lay). It is what it is. And then I read shit by guys with 10+ years more experience than me (you and Pablo) and then it just confirms my experience. Doesn't make me feel like crap that I can only SNL girls that give me a chance to seduce them (as in I can have a conversation with them, not that they are all over me wanting to fuck me right away. Because I put a lot of work to seduce these girls (as Teevster said, in that attraction thread, just because she's a green doesn't mean it will be an easy pull. And I agree 100% because this is my experience) and not the girls that turn away/walk away from me.

So my mistake was not realizing that the articles written on GirlsChase (except Bacchus and Teevster's articles. Because they told me their articles are written specifically for advanced readers) are written for the average man who wants to get laid with hot girls. Not advanced guys who want to get laid with girls who flat out don't like them (could be your vibe, looks, etc), and then turning that around.

Yes!

Rejections are totally normal.

You are usually not going to get girls who are not into you. Much of the time these girls ARE a waste of time when approaching them!

This is 100% true -- you did not misread.

That is true for advanced guys as much as it is true for neophytes.

I think the main thing with you though was this -- you got it into your head that the traffic light system was the important thing to go by. And I can see why. It is certainly useful for quick, efficient pickups when you are hard-screening for receptive girls and quickly screening out the unreceptive ones. I will often do this myself!

However, if it turns into a thing where you are hounding guys to admit to the traffic light system and come to the light (the... traffic light), it has descended to the point of being a conversion thing / flame war.

I know you had a dustup with @Teevster, and then later you did with @Razorjack.

Both @Teevster and @Carousel know you and really like you and have been telling me @Velasco is skilled and legit... also that however the lockdown may be driving you a little stir crazy. And I commiserate.

That said -- there is a BIG difference between just generally saying "You are usually not going to get those girls who are non-compliant and giving you closed off signals" versus pressing a specific guy on "You will NEVER get those girls. Tell me about a time you got one of those girls!"

As soon as you are in "I don't believe you -- prove it to me!" territory, you will piss off a lot of guys, especially guys who are already through their proving stages, and are not going out writing lay reports anymore, and do not want to amass a binder of evidence of every time they laid whatever class of girls are the new hot girls people are saying are impossible to lay (it used to be 10s... then it was blonde bombshells... now it is apparently 'reds'), and then going through the debate where the other guy says "Well see, here is this one detail that proves she is not really this class of girls I said you can never get, so my point stands, you cannot get those girls" and everyone gets increasingly certain he is right and the other guy is wrong and then one or both of them leaves.

If you came at @Razorjack and you said to him "You know how there are some girls who just aren't into you, and usually you aren't going to bother with those girls because they are too much work?" I have no doubt he'd have said, "Yeah for sure man."

However when you come in and go, "There is this Traffic Light System, and these girls who are red you have NO shot with, so just leave them alone, admit it, you know it is really this way," well... for most mPUAs you are going to trigger a certain contrarian spark.

Pretty much every guy who is at the highest tier of game ability is a guy who loves challenges. Most guys have had the experience of going for the toughest girl in the venue... and sometimes picking her up.

Let me come at this from a different angle.

You are Latin, I've heard, right? Are you from the Mediterranean or South America?

You ever see those girls who when you first go up to them, they roll their eyes and put their hands in your face and flick their chins away from you? Like you are just so beneath them? You ever try to get those girls?

I don't know if you've ever tried. But if you roll with some good Latino naturals, you might've had a few friends who really go for that kind of girl. They will run her down and persist with her, and she will stop, acting all huffy, and give them a moment to say their piece. And then a minute later you will see her grudgingly laughing with them, and alternating between acting pissy and acting like she MIGHT just give them a chance.

Then, sometimes, you will watch your buddies whisk these girls off the street and take them home, then and there.

Other times they will take the girl's phone number, and lay her on a date.

These girls display 100% 'red' signals on approach, but they can still be gotten.

Very often, they specifically display these signals to entice in the guys who really like that sort of thing.

Are these girls 'red'? Or are they 'fake red'?

It is worth anyone's time and energy to deliberate over that?

I have an ex-fiancée I picked up who completely ignored me on my initial approach. I walked up to her, opened her, she just kind of looked at me, then looked away, giving me some very "Whatever" sort of response. I dropped it for a minute, talked to a friend, then re-opened her. Then she gave me some neutral-ish conversation. Tried to get a little compliance from her but she brushed it off. We were all walking in the same direction (leaving a nightclub) and I kept talking with her, then she started to warm up, and eventually got very warm. After about 10 minutes of talk she was so into it I felt very sure I could've picked her up that night but put it off due to tiredness. I knocked her up a little later on, she didn't keep it, then we had this whole complicated thing where she changed her mind and chased me to re-impregnate her... it was kind of a mess.

But anyway... was that girl 'red'?

Or how about the super hot raven-haired girl I picked up in VIP, who gave me the most marginal, neutral conversation when I approached, then ignored me. I reopened her a few times, she'd give me some basic, neutral conversation, then her friends would pull her away, because it was her birthday and she was the center of attention. I'd go in, again, get her talk a bit, again, then she'd ignore me again... at one point one of her friends, this tall, muscular dude with a goatee, took me aside to tell me, "She's not interested man, you should leave it alone." I was on a mission that night, the rest of the club had nothing to offer me, and I wanted a real skill test, so regardless, I kept at it. I hung in there, got her talking more; she refused to leave VIP with me, but started to warm up to me. Then, late in the night, she disappeared. The friend of hers who told me to leave earlier found me and told me he was impressed and didn't think I could pull it off but it was looking like maybe I could so I should keep at it. I found her making out with some other guy in a stairwell. That guy left; I pulled her in and got her kissing me. Then she ran off again; I found her on top of the bar downstairs making out with and straddling a girl, a crowd of maybe 15 people around her (mostly guys) as the club was letting out. Finally separated her (worried the whole time that bouncers or other guys would stop me from getting her, thinking I was some random guy who did not know her going for the bisexual makeout girl... but no one did), got her outside with me; she kept yelling, "I want to fuck her! I want to FUCK her!" Then the other girl came outside, I tried to not let my girl see, but she did, and ran off to her again, grabbed her and made out with her. Finally that girl's friends appeared and dragged her off into a cab. I scooped up my girl, who was complaining about losing this girl she wanted to fuck, got her out of there before someone else would pop up to interrupt, and took her home. It was probably the single most exhausting pickup I have ever had.

Was that girl a 'red'?

When we get into this traffic lights thing, we are getting into a semantics debate. Because then guys have to list out their experiences picking up initially resistant girls, and other guys have to judge whether those girls are 'truly reds' or not.

Maybe you will look at those scenarios and say, "Yes Chase, I see you picked up reds. I realize now it can be done!"

But more likely you are going to look at those and say, "Well here's why those are not reds." Or you are going to say, "Those are exceptional and unusual, therefore the theory stands."

The Traffic Lights Method, the way it is being used, is being used as this kind of unfalsifiable system of pickup picking and choosing, where it is then being pushed onto other guys and guys are getting yelled at to accept it as real.

This is the thing I am taking issue with here.

This kind of Church of the Holy Traffic Lights.

And all the annoying flame warring that goes with it.


@BigPapa,

I totally agree with what you are saying ,but can you please elaborate on what exactly counts as a senior member ( basically people that we have to be extra humble to ) ?

Basically everyone that has the rank of "elder" or "chieftain" is counted as a senior member , or also other ranks count towards being considered a senior member as well ?

We use ranks on the Boards.

You should be able to look at a guy's profile and see what his rank is.

You sent me a message saying you are concerned that some guys have rank due to "politics."

Leaving aside the implicit accusation of my partiality there, here is how ranks are decided:

Ranks roughly correlate to:

1. Rookie: just joined, under 10 posts
   
   
2. Space Monkey: either a beginner or someone the Boards don't know much about yet
   
   
3. Tool-Bearing Hominid: someone who's made a good case he's either a.) at least a little skilled with women, b.) working very hard and has a positive attitude about improving with women, or c.) is going to contribute a fair amount of not-terrible content
   
   
4. Cro-Magnon Man: someone who's intermediate or better with women
   
   
5. Modern Human: high intermediate or low advanced with women, helps other members and gives solid advice
   
   
6. Tribal Elder: very good with girls, has a very solid/skilled approach, gets results, probably has a fair few lay reports and some good technical "how to do X thing nobody's talked about how to do before" or "how to do Y thing in a totally new and useful and cool way", has a good positive attitude and helps out the newer guys

There is also of course an understanding in there that a guy is able to be responsible with his rank and play nice with others.

@Velasco is Tribal Elder material, except for this "chasing a guy around the Boards flame warring with him" behavior. Also flame warring in general.

Again, that may be a result of him being cooped up due to the lockdown. I am annoyed at this whole affair, and I think the traffic lights proselytizating is stupid, but I also understand he is looking at certain things a certain way and is frustrated he feels he cannot get the info he wants out of, say, Teevster or Razorjack.

For you yourself, I know you say you're good with girls. That might well be the case. We get guys all the time who join the Boards here who get laid a lot and have unique and interesting perspectives on girl-getting and we love to have those guys here. However, usually, these guys follow the normal "just joined a group" pattern of proving themselves over time, with helpful posts, respect to other members, and lay reports. That's how @Razorjack started when he joined Fast Seduction in 2003: chill with other members, helpful posts, and writing reports.

In your specific case... I get it. You own your own business. You do well with girls. You are used to feeling like a pretty important guy in your own world. Then you come here and nobody knows who you are and you are having to build a rep up from scratch.

I am obviously pretty well known here. I hold a kind of quasi-celebrity status, to some extent... when I hire people, when I am hiring Americans or Europeans, a surprising amount of the time if it is a young guy as soon as he sees it is me he will tell me he used to read GC or currently still does, and that he already knows who I am.

Very occasionally, I will make a random account on some other forum, unrelated to pickup, and post there, and people ignore me or treat me like any newbie, even if it is a subject I am quite experienced with. I have even occasionally made anonymous accounts on random pickup boards, posted a little, and... largely been ignored. Because I am just some random anonymous member, and nobody knows my background, and, there, I am unproven.

Here's a video where a world famous violinist named Joshua Bell played in a metro station on a $3.5 million violin... and nobody noticed until some woman at the end. He made 32 bucks in 45 minutes of playing:

In the 45 minutes the musician played, only 6 people stopped and stayed for a while. About 20 gave him money but continued to walk their normal pace. He collected $32. When he finished playing and silence took over, no one noticed it. No one applauded, nor was there any recognition.​

If Joshua Bell got angry that no one was respecting him and started demanding people respect him, because he really knew violin, people would just think he was nuts.

Now, if he went there every day, and played every day, and word spread that this guy was a virtuoso, he would eventually develop a following.

A year in, everybody would know Joshua Bell plays at the metro station during rush hour. And he'd have a huge crowd every day.

Or, if there was a big marketing push, where they said "Joshua Bell will be giving a street concert in the D.C. Metro," he would've had a huge crowd waiting for him.

But if he just goes there, anonymous, with no indication who he is, even if he starts to tell people about himself when he gets there, it is going to take a while for people to believe him, or people to really know who he is.

This is how building clout in a new environment among a new group of people works.

If Richard Branson came here and started sharing pickup tips, it would take us a while to verify he was really Richard Branson.

Then once we had verified it, it would take us a while more to figure out if he was actually legit, or just using money or fame to get women.

He seems like a fiery guy so might well get kicked off for arguing with senior members before we even figured that out.

Maybe he has good things to share. He might have awesome things to share!

But there is a process you go through when you join a new community.

You will always start off as a stranger, unless you have some way for people to introduce you in, or it is some natural transition where the notoriety you've built other places lends itself to your establishment in the new place.

It might look like 'politics' to you that guys you do not agree with hold senior ranks.

It might look like politics that you are asked to be respectful toward them, even though YOU think they are full of shit.

That is just how it goes though when you join any place where you are new, and other people have been around for a long time.

If you run in, guns blazing, trying to take out the senior leadership, the senior leadership is going to close ranks and kick you out or clamp down.

This is how groups of humans work. All of them.

Only in systems with weak structures and crumbling leadership is a newbie able to join, start gunning for senior leadership, and take them out (thus elevating himself quickly to a senior position).

The leadership here is not weak, and reacts to challenges to seniors as any non-weak system will.


@jonjames,

Hi guys I’m new here. Ive heard the stop light theory before. What is the argument against it? To me it seems like a waste of time chasing girls with no interest. I’ve seen a lot of guys become heartbroken over liking someone and the feelings not being reciprocated. I’ve been around pickup some and aim to have an abundance mentality.

I think it's okay for beginners.

Although I am not so sure about I actively recommending it for them.

Just the whole psychology of thinking "That girl is a red" strikes me as a bit self-defeating. It's the same exact thing as "That girl is a 10" -- I talked about why systems like this can be harmful in this post:

Why to Throw Out the 1-to-10 Scale for Rating Women

Before stumbling into the world of pickup in late 2005, I'd never used the 1-to-10 scale. Maybe that's because I didn't really have friends; I wasn't comparing notes on girls. Or maybe it was because I wasn't trying to impress anyone by telling him I'd nailed a "total 10." But in pickup, it...

www.girlschase.com

I’m still new to it all, though. What is the goal of turning a so-called “red light girl” green? Is that an underlying philosophy of this site? That is not a goal of mine but this post makes me wonder if I am in the wrong place. I’m just trying to get better with girls. I don’t want to trick anyone into liking me.

The big problem is, as @Mike Silvertree notes, we had a few guys going to senior members and telling them "You can't turn a red girl green."

By the time you become expert level in something, you start to get off on challenges. You get bored of the easy stuff that other guys cut their teeth on, and you specifically go out of your way to find new, interesting, challenging situations, and pull a win out of them.

A less-experienced guy coming up to you, as a senior member, and saying, "You cannot do this thing you sometimes do! Or if you say you can do it, you have to prove that to me!" is the same as any situation where someone who is your junior is approaching you and saying, "I don't believe you! Prove it!"

I have addressed this point (and why it is so annoying for experienced guys) here:

Real Empiricists Test

In the comments of Saturday’s article about signs you’re in the friend zone, uForia makes the following comment: “Ive been a long time reader of your articles, and I can’t help but be skeptical at times. Your posts often have a tone of disliking competition from other men, and what makes you...

www.girlschase.com

New guys will think, "Well if he gets annoyed at being asked to prove himself, obviously he must be full of it!"

Yet... imagine you are Michael Jordan.

There you are, trying to live your life.

Every time you set foot outside though, somebody on the street says, "Are you REALLY good at basketball? Because my friend said all those games on TV were FAKE. He said they just script those things for the ratings, and basketball players are actors. If you're REAL, then PROVE it. There's a basketball court right over there. Let's see you DO these things you say you can do!"

Michael Jordan spent decades proving himself.

He is over proving himself.

He does not want to prove himself. He has other things in his life he would rather do instead. Like eat a yummy burrito for lunch or go to his kid's school play. He does not want to carve hours a day out of his schedule to prove himself to everyone who needs him to prove himself afresh so that that one individual person will believe in him.

And trust, everyone who asks you to prove yourself is just doing it for himself. Because after you prove yourself to that one guy, and he is convinced, along comes another guy, who is not convinced. This new guy needs you to prove yourself AGAIN to HIM.

Then once you do, another new guy comes along. Again, you must prove yourself.

And as there are so few senior guys, and so big a number of unwashed masses seeking confirmation that the senior guys can really do what they say, you are going to spend the entire rest of your life proving yourself to people if you resolve to prove yourself to people who ask you to do that.

These guys running around blasting senior members with traffic lights, saying you can't get X girls, then telling them "Prove to me you can get X girls" are doing exactly this.

And all that kind of thing does is run off senior members, who would rather be eating burritos or going to their kids' school plays (or... shagging some 'red' girl they picked up at the club...) than they would proving themselves.

Then you get stuck with a bunch of newbies running around talking about all the things you cannot do, based on these limiting beliefs they have.

(and "you can't get girls who give you these certain signals!" is, indeed, a limiting belief)


@Oh Pry,

Nice post!

And it's cool to read, considering how much you have butted heads with senior guys in the past.

Nice to see you growing, man.

Chase

 

[Velasco]

But more likely you are going to look at those and say, "Well here's why those are not reds

lol nah second girl was no doubt a red (in the sense we've been talking about). There ain't no "well ackshually" about it lol. But you will not deny that it was down to persistence and a whole lot of luck, right?. Rather than this "advanced game" it takes to SNL reds we keep hearing about.

It was probably the single most exhausting pickup I have ever had

For sure. I'm gonna stop saying you cant SNL reds from now on. If you wanna go for it, hey bro more power to you lol. Cause me personally, I wouldve been outta there and in a cab to another bar, the second you noticed the club had nothing better to offer besides this red. I ain't wasting my night haha

 

[Rain]

(and "you can't get girls who give you these certain signals!" is, indeed, a limiting belief)

There's an article above "you could get any girl conceivably", how literal is that meant to be taken? This gives hope to how many guys who have oneitis or want the ex back whos now with a new guy for years. I know you don't think that those types of "persuit" is worth it because of the amount of time and effort but still curious how literal do you mean it?

The other thing to talk about is, if you have a girlfriend/partner yourself, she'd be a red or something to all other guys, eg show her ring on her finger or say she has a boyfriend, and with enough persistence or sex talk gambit 'covert hypnosis' then a new guy could convert her, correct?

I'm not saying it can't be done necessarily, I'm saying isn't it confusing, because if you screen properly for a LTR as Razorjack put it, then that wouldn't happen [if I understood him correctly]. But that is in an opposing view to the limiting belief of "you can't get girls who give certain signals".

 

[Carousel]

There's an article above "you could get any girl conceivably", how literal is that meant to be taken? This gives hope to how many guys who have oneitis or want the ex back whos now with a new guy for years. I know you don't think that those types of "persuit" is worth it because of the amount of time and effort but still curious how literal do you mean it?

If you have the ability to get your oneitis or get your ex back you will have so good game in general that you will likely NOT want to do these things. Such wanted outcomes are correlated with needyness which stems from shitty game, usually.