Socializing There is one thing I am just realising about the difference between daygame and nightgame

[StrayDog]

If you want to approach girls like in the Manchester video you gotta have this guy's kind of Game and energy. It can be done but its way tougher and requires a lot more balls and high energy to pull off. He is killing it in this video:

yes, if my intuition is correct I think this is the style that @average_daygamer has been attempting. But I am getting the feeling it is not quite aligned with his core personality.

Hence all the blowouts and such.

I'll rock this style sometimes. But only when I am high state, high social momentum.

otherwise I'm kicked back style all the way.

 

[average_daygamer]

If you want to approach girls like in the Manchester video you gotta have this guy's kind of Game and energy. It can be done but its way tougher and requires a lot more balls and high energy to pull off. He is killing it in this video:

Two things

I do group sets. You can see them in some of my field reports from earlier this year. I am not as confident as Robert in the video and do often back out if there are 3 or more or if it's a mixed set. But I have pushed myself in nightgame a lot out on the street. But the ROI isn't there which effects my motivation.

Funnily enough, I have also had coaching with them before their channel got deleted. Not with Richard but the two other lads (I won't name them in case they want to lay low). They were legit but I needed a lot of work and didn't have the funds at the time; then they got cancelled.

Richard has insane skills and I am not capable of that, particularly not with the young hotties you get on nights out. I can be high energy but lack a system other than the generic daygame number close which doesn't make a lot of sense in night game. So in night game ain't lack a goal to steer the girl to.

Actually a couple of years ago, I went hug approaching, offering "free Christmas hugs" which worked quite well. I did 15 hug approaches and got 3 hugs, including a double hug.

Hugs are good because they are easier to coordinate than kisses and you get to feel the girl's body against yours which is more satisfying than kissing in my view. But it didn't go further than the hug, that was it once they had hugged me. There was no escalation possible as they saw it as the conclusion to the interaction. I am afraid to push too far and be condemned as a creep, you see.

 

[AspiringStoic]

yes, if my intuition is correct I think this is the style that @average_daygamer has been attempting. But I am getting the feeling it is not quite aligned with his core personality.

Hence all the blowouts and such.

I'll rock this style sometimes. But only when I am high state, high social momentum.

otherwise I'm kicked back style all the way.

If I were to guess having read through several of his reports and the content of his writing, he has a lot of serious energy and he is probably being too intense and does not have the lightness and "loving life" kind of energy that the guy in the video has.

Also from his writing I see a lot of resentment and pent up frustration and anger towards women. I long time ago suggested to him to try a simple compliment challenge.

Just going up to women and giving them a compliment and walking off without wanting anything else from them. And he refused to do it and said he "enjoyed challenging women rather than complimenting them".

Just from my experience I know any guy who is not able to just make someone else feel good and put a smile on a woman's face just for spreading good vibes has some things blocking him. Women can suss it out. Unless you can develop that empathy and good vibes, you can approach a million women but you will have poor results.

 

[StrayDog]

you can approach a million women but you will have poor results.

not just that you can approach a million women, but you can approach a million different ways.

kicked back or out going be damned.

Best way to seduce women-good vibes
worst way to seduce women-bad vibes.


that said, I have seduced women when I was in a bad mood. But that was not something I projected onto her. I managed to be in a bad mood and be good vibes at the same time.

 

[StrayDog]

enjoyed challenging women rather than complimenting them

yikes

 

[StrayDog]

paramount to be good vibess

indispensable

 

[StrayDog]

Hugs are good because they are easier to coordinate than kisses and you get to feel the girl's body against yours which is more satisfying than kissing in my view. But it didn't go further than the hug, that was it once they had hugged me. There was no escalation possible as they saw it as the conclusion to the interaction. I am afraid to push too far and be condemned as a creep, you see.

again, the reason this isn't going further is because it is not congruent with your style. You are bringing this big energy then expecting it to move forward from the hug with no clear process how.

you can't skip steps, just because you get a hug doesn't mean you don't have to then work the interaction.

You are afraid of being a creep because your intuition is telling you something is off about the way you are interacting. it is not congruent. you know that you have skipped steps or acted out of character.

 

[average_daygamer]

If I were to guess having read through several of his reports and the content of his writing, he has a lot of serious energy and he is probably being too intense and does not have the lightness and "loving life" kind of energy that the guy in the video has.

Also from his writing I see a lot of resentment and pent up frustration and anger towards women. I long time ago suggested to him to try a simple compliment challenge.

Just going up to women and giving them a compliment and walking off without wanting anything else from them. And he refused to do it and said he "enjoyed challenging women rather than complimenting them".

Just from my experience I know any guy who is not able to just make someone else feel good and put a smile on a woman's face just for spreading good vibes has some things blocking him. Women can suss it out. Unless you can develop that empathy and good vibes, you can approach a million women but you will have poor results.

I have done compliments, my main opener is compliments. I don't remember my reply but generally I would prefer challenging women than giving them compliments. I don't mind compliments. For various reasons. Generic compliments are insincere, for one

But I have done these "hit and run" compliments in the past. I know how to do them. I don't need practice. I need practice in set. I need practice on dates because I can't get any. Which affects my mood for approaching.

My energy can be serious but also light hearted. It is mood dependent. Right now, I am feeling pretty grim after my last number close didn't even reply. But it ebs and flows. I need a breath of fresh air.

 

[StrayDog]

If I were to guess having read through several of his reports and the content of his writing, he has a lot of serious energy and he is probably being too intense and does not have the lightness and "loving life" kind of energy that the guy in the video has.

Also from his writing I see a lot of resentment and pent up frustration and anger towards women. I long time ago suggested to him to try a simple compliment challenge.

intense energy can actually be great for seduction. It just has to be used in a seductive way, and is generally more suited for a sniper type as opposed to life of the party style.

resentment on the other hand is never helpful

 

[StrayDog]

My energy can be serious but also light hearted. It is mood dependent

my game used to be way more state dependent when I thought I had to perform a certain way.

Once I started focusing more on my technicals/process, within a style that came more naturally, I stopped being as state dependent.


as long as the process is progressing and my technicals are in good working order. My state comes secondary.

But I have done these "hit and run" compliments in the past. I know how to do them. I don't need practice. I need practice in set. I need practice on dates because I can't get any. Which affects my mood for approaching

yes, but how you get in set is crucial as it sets the tone for the rest of the interaction. And you will never get to the date if you don't address where your bottle neck is in the process currently.

Currently you are alright at opening, but you are not hooking.

My guess is that it is because the way you open doesn't set you up for a decent hook that is more natural to your personality.

Opening big sets a precedent that you remain big energy. this is very state dependent.

once you find ways to open that are more in line with your personality, you will be set up better for the hook. once you hook, you are set up better for a close.

Right now, I am feeling pretty grim after my last number close didn't even reply. But it ebs and flows. I need a breath of fresh air.

number flakes are a part of the game no matter your skill level. it is a bummer when you get a series of duds, but you just have to ask yourself what you can learn from them and move on. re work your game accordingly, and land the next one.

 

[AspiringStoic]

Right now, I am feeling pretty grim after my last number close didn't even reply. But it ebs and flows. I need a breath of fresh air.

Brother I saw your posts on that thread. I replied to you, giving you a gym analogy and asking you how many approaches are you doing per week? How consistent are you?


You conveniently ignored that reply and went on about bombarding a girl who was not replying with more texts and coming up with all sorts of imaginary reasons of why she is not replying.

If you approach consistently and track your approaches, you will see patterns. This is not a game of cause and effect. Its a game of probability.

These 2 articles will help get your head in the right space.

Picking Up Girls and the Game of Asymmetric Returns

I’ve been relistening to Nassim Taleb’s wonderful book Fooled by Randomness, which is a probabalist’s dream read. And if there’s one thing that picking up girls turns you into, it’s a probabalist. Reading it (or listening to it on audio, as I am), you see a great many parallels between stock...

www.girlschase.com

Dating Success is Probability, Not Cause and Effect

If you think about success with women as cause and effect, you’ve got it all wrong. You must think in terms of probabilities. First off, causality and probability are not opposites. But from a mental models point of view, they may as well be. Most people in most walks of life think about things...

www.girlschase.com

In daygame nobody gets every number they get to turn into a date. Flakes and no replies are part and parcel of daygame cold approach.

I know that on average for every 3-6 numbers I get, I will get 1 date out of it. I know this from past data I have collected.

Walking around for 4 hours and doing 1 or 2 approaches like you say you do is just not going to cut it. You have to find a way to do 20-50 approaches week in and week out especially when you are learning this skill and if you are at a level where you are not getting dates.

You conveniently ignore this advice and keep posting about your fear of approaching under age girls, random gym approaches, and trying to analyse why 1 girl is not replying.

Approach consistently (bare minimum 20+ girls/week) only then you have a fighting chance of making this work.

 

[StrayDog]

generally I would prefer challenging women than giving them compliments

what is the benefit of challenging women straight out the gate?

I can't see the benefit.

Occasionally challenging a women is fine, and can spike interest.

But honestly if I were you I wouldn't be focusing on that sort of thing right now.

You already come across as too intense.

Challenging a women is in effect breaking rapport.

Not the best move when you are having trouble creating a genuine sense of rapport in the first place.

I would can this for now and instead figure out how to naturally build rapport and capitalize on that momentum.


Build rapport and qualify her, instead of immediately assuming a counter position and challenging her.

 

[AspiringStoic]

what is the benefit of challenging women straight out the gate?

I can't see the benefit.

Occasionally challenging a women is fine, and can spike interest.

But honestly if I were you I wouldn't be focusing on that sort of thing right now.

You already come across as too intense.

Challenging a women is in effect breaking rapport.

Not the best move when you are having trouble creating a genuine sense of rapport in the first place

@average_daygamer
Exactly! This!

number flakes are a part of the game no matter your skill level.

And this!

There are multiple threads on which very senior members on this board have given you great advice multiple times.

But what concerns me most is you dont ever tell us how many women you are approaching a week. I know when someone does not answer that or gives vague answers that they are just not doing enough.

And without that, talking about anything else is moot.

 

[StrayDog]

Exactly! This!

bro is literally walking around challenging random women, and then wondering why he is getting blow outs and number flakes.

 

[average_daygamer]

Brother I saw your posts on that thread. I replied to you, giving you a gym analogy and asking you how many approaches are you doing per week? How consistent are you?


You conveniently ignored that reply and went on about bombarding a girl who was not replying with more texts and coming up with all sorts of imaginary reasons of why she is not replying.

If you approach consistently and track your approaches, you will see patterns. This is not a game of cause and effect. Its a game of probability.

These 2 articles will help get your head in the right space.

Picking Up Girls and the Game of Asymmetric Returns

I’ve been relistening to Nassim Taleb’s wonderful book Fooled by Randomness, which is a probabalist’s dream read. And if there’s one thing that picking up girls turns you into, it’s a probabalist. Reading it (or listening to it on audio, as I am), you see a great many parallels between stock...

www.girlschase.com

Dating Success is Probability, Not Cause and Effect

If you think about success with women as cause and effect, you’ve got it all wrong. You must think in terms of probabilities. First off, causality and probability are not opposites. But from a mental models point of view, they may as well be. Most people in most walks of life think about things...

www.girlschase.com

In daygame nobody gets every number they get to turn into a date. Flakes and no replies are part and parcel of daygame cold approach.

I know that on average for every 3-6 numbers I get, I will get 1 date out of it. I know this from past data I have collected.

Walking around for 4 hours and doing 1 or 2 approaches like you say you do is just not going to cut it. You have to find a way to do 20-50 approaches week in and week out especially when you are learning this skill and if you are at a level where you are not getting dates.

You conveniently ignore this advice and keep posting about your fear of approaching under age girls, random gym approaches, and trying to analyse why 1 girl is not replying.

Approach consistently (bare minimum 20+ girls/week) only then you have a fighting chance of making this work.

The problem is, I don't have anywhere where I can approach consistently.

For instance, yesterday I walked around for 4 hours and I didn't see one "definitely" opportunity. I saw 2 "maybe" opportunities, 1 crossing paths in a split second in an alleyway leading to an empty park and 1 sitting reading a book on an empty campus. I couldn't even see if I found them attractive or not and didn't want to risk creeping them out by approaching when nobody is around.

I think you are being unnecessarily harsh on me and potentially forcing me into approaches that are doomed to come off as creepy from the jump off. According to Google, the local city I go to has a population of 155000 people, which sounds like a lot, but when you divide that into hot girls, it isn't really that much. I can go hours and hours walking through packed streets of families, tourists, foreign exchange students (under 18) and local elderly people and not see a single definite approach opportunity.

The only way I might get to your figure of 20 approaches per week consistently is if I hit night game every weekend, combined with daygame and an approach in the gym here and there, with the majority of my approaches being made up from that 1 night in the club.

But nightgame makes me very tired and wipes out the following day as well and I work 3 days per week so I need to have energy for that as well as gyming 3 days per week and I don't like to gym on work days so that is 6 days per week already taken up. On top of that, I have 1 week day for martial arts classes which I don't want to miss in lieu of going to the club to mostly get rejected.

I can't give you this year's figures, but in my big "pre Christmas" push last year, I probably got between 10-15 approaches per week from daygame, but that was during the uni term time. When the uni students leave town, my approach volume plummets. The good news is, the uni's are about to go back on.

As for my big pre Christmas push last year, I got 7 numbers in total, 4 of which replied once or more, 3 of which didn't reply to my opening text. The one that showed the most interest abruptly stopped replying and that was it.

I also had an instant date back in March with a girl, she didn't want to give her number (rejection) but suggested she take mine down, but I never heard back from her, as anticipated. But atleast I got that "girl time" so to speak.

I am planning to hit the club more, but logistically it is difficult. I have a ticket coming up for a couple of weeks time, but it is gonna be rough, as I work on Saturdays, then finish work, I am gonna be in my approaching city for 5 hours before the club opens, then at 3am I will have to walk back to the 24 hour gym I am a member of which is over a mile away to catch a few hours sleep on the mats in the corner before catching the bus back home.

 

[average_daygamer]

bro is literally walking around challenging random women, and then wondering why he is getting blow outs and number flakes.

I am not "challenging" any girls, I mean I don't like a generic compliment opener, I would rather approach indirectly in a sarcastic manner, but I don't know how to do that.

I mean I don't like saying the whole "Hey, I just walked past you and you looked really beautiful" opener as I find it a bit cringe, but I don't know any other opener. I would rather come up with a witty and slightly sarcastic opener, that is what I mean by challenging. Maybe qualifying is a better term to describe what I mean. But telling a girl she is beautiful as the opener isn't the best in my view, as she already knows that she maybe somewhat attractive.

If I think back to the German girl opener, I was able to compliment her on her tattoos, which were somewhat unique and that make the approach more congruent.

 

[average_daygamer]

@average_daygamer
Exactly! This!

And this!

There are multiple threads on which very senior members on this board have given you great advice multiple times.

But what concerns me most is you dont ever tell us how many women you are approaching a week. I know when someone does not answer that or gives vague answers that they are just not doing enough.

And without that, talking about anything else is moot.

I can't give you approach figures for this year but last year in my big "pre Christmas" daygame push, between october-December, I approached between 10-15 girls per week, collected 7 numbers, 4 of which replied once or more, 1 replied 3 times then flaked and 3 didn't reply to my initial text.

If you DM me your WhatsApp, I could forward the conversation threads to you as proof.

That was also when the uni students were in town, they go home over the summer which tanks the approach opportunities in the city. Again, a city of 155000 people sounds a lot, but when you divide that into a proportion of hot girls, it isn't really that much to see hot girls every day.

When the uni's are off, I can go hours walking up and down and not see any girls.

That's why I keep asking you guys if you would walk up and down your local town wearing a pair of camera glasses and describe what a "set" even is, because it seems that your expectations for an average small English city are somewhat off.

 

[AspiringStoic]

gyming 3 days per week and I don't like to gym on work days so that is 6 days per week already taken up. On top of that, I have 1 week day for martial arts classes which I don't want to miss in lieu of going to the club to mostly get rejected.

I am not forcing you to do anything. My intention is not to be harsh on you. I am just laying down the reality as I see it.

Your words here indicate that gym and martial arts are more important to you than solving your dating issues. That is okay. You dont have to justify that to anyone.

But Richard from the video from Street Attraction that you said you know about, do you think he got that good by prioritizing the gym and martial arts over approaching?

There were guys back in the day, who moved cities and slept in closets and crashed on other people's couches to learn pickup. The reality is that if you really want this, you have to prioritize this over everything else apart from your survival.

That is just reality. You cannot say, I will hit the gym, do martial arts, these are all more important than cold approach and then try to get good at this.

This is a hard and very rare skillset, there is no way you can acquire it without prioritizing it.

Its upto you, what you do. But that is the reality.

 

[AspiringStoic]

Again, a city of 155000 people sounds a lot,

No its not. Its very very small. I have never heard of anyone learning daygame in a city with less than 500k- 1 million population but to be honest, if you are starting as a hard case, you definitely need a city with at least more than a million, bare minimum.

So if you really want to learn this, you need to be thinking about and doing everything in your power to move or to visit a bigger city at least once or twice a week and doing big sessions so you can practice this. Otherwise its just not possible.

To contrast, you have been talking about 7 numbers from last Christmas. You need to be getting 3-4 numbers/week.

To give you a reference point, so far in September I have done 76 approaches, got 8 numbers and been on 2 dates.


And I am not advanced at all at this. I But this year I have been doing it consistently. Bare minimum 15+ approaches every week but more like 20-30/week. With that kind of effort I have reached a stage where I can get 2-3 dates a month.

If I did 4 approaches per week, I would have never gotten to this stage. I know this, because I used to do that when I had severe AA. So I know that with those kinds of stats nothing is going to happen.

In fact it will make you more frustrated, and make you lose hope about this. It will make you obsess over girls who dont reply, like you were doing on the other thread.

You should be approaching so much that, you forget about the last girl who did not reply in a few days because you now have 2-3 other numbers. That is how this works. Otherwise your frustation is only going to continue and get worse.