Tricky Date Logistics: Single Mom (Alone in My Country)

[ThePhoenix]

I have run into the kid-in-tow problem, which I'm sure some have encountered before, so I wonder how guys handle this.

It was dead-easy to first meet this girl, so my ultimate solution is to just approach more of her, or better, but I certainly would like to pull if it's possible... and this could easily come up again (I've had similar problems before), so I'd like to figure out generally how to overcome this.

To be clear, I'm not going to make this or any girl an LTR, I have no interest in that, my preferred relationship style is a rotation of FwB, though I'm not at that stage yet due to just recovering from debilitating approach inhibition.

My instinct says that it's crucial for any meet-up to have a decent chance to lead to sex, but this likely requires her to have babysitting—something this one doesn't seem to have worked out yet—and also for her to be able to stay out long enough for coffee and pull. In past I've been slow to escalate once home, I'd likely have to be quite fast.

Another possibility might be to somehow wind up at her home. At least we'd then have all night, and it sidesteps the need for a babysitter, but it's trickier in other ways, and excuses to invite myself are not as sure-fire.

One thing I'm not going to do is go on repeated dates that can't lead to sex. I have no time for that, I'd sooner go back to the mall and meet more girls.


Case Specifics

This particular case is a doozy!

Met a cute Kenyan chick (I'm very attracted to African chicks), a good bit younger than me, a student, in a big box store as she was shopping. Our eyes met through a shelf and then I wandered over from the other side and opened her with a situational joke question. Responded well. Alas, she was wearing an insult to black beauty—weave—but on this occasion I decided not to disclaim it just yet.

A little chit chat on her studies and also her background. When I learn she's Kenyan I (white guy) surprise her with some knowledge of her country. She asks if the friends I knew this from were from on-line dating. (Huh??) No, I don't do that!

I can't say I'm the smoothest, but I'm not clueless, either. Probably could've been edgier. Still, the girl was pretty compliant and welcomed my closing proposal to meet for coffee. Took her number, a bit later sent her a "save my #" text, and she replied warmly.

Next day, I try to set up a coffee date for later in the week and get:

Hey Pholenix [sic], unfortunately that won't work out. I'm flying out tomorrow for vacation in Kenya and then once I'm back, we can have coffee.

I get her date of return and part with a request to bring me back pics.

Come that date, a month later, I text her in the evening a quick ping asking how was Kenya. Next afternoon, a Friday, she answers—incidentally while I was in the megamall approaching more chicks:

Hey Phoen, How are you doing? I just landed now and saw your message.
Kenya was beautiful
Waiting for my luggage..now

Nice! Did you remember to get pics for me?

I got alot

Excellent! I should have time Sunday

Yes, absolutely, let me know. Headed home now

Early Saturday afternoon, I write her:

Hey Claire, hope you got some rest after that longass flight! Let's shoot for 3pm tomorrow, we can meet at the food court in [same mall I approached her in]

(For reference, presently I don't drive, but my usual tactic here would be to walk to this mall, it's about 3.5 miles/5.7km from home, meet the girl, and once things look good, make an excuse I have to do something quick back home, then we go there using whatever means she used to get to the mall, be it either she drives, or bus, since I walked there.)

About 4h later:

Hey Pholenix, yes, I got proper rest... Tim [sic] to [a mall on the other end of the city] to show my son around. I came with him by the way he will be joining School here.

I take almost 3h and after some debating on how the hell to handle this, I write:

Ah ok. Should show him [iconic mall of my city] too. What do you do for babysitting?

I brought this up because a kid tagging along on that critical first meet-up is a guaranteed missed escalation window!

He is 8 years old, I should enroll him hopefully by next week. He's been out of [sic] my mom's care for the last almost 2 years since I came here to study.... now that i am done with my post Graduate.... decided to get him
Babysitting, I will have to figure it out

I'm not sure what her visa situation is or if/how she would've gotten him residency here, but anyway, my main worry is that date logistics sound like they're shot.

Day game is quite the box of chocolates:

Oh wow, so you brought him from literally yesterday?

Yes, we just came yesterday
How was your day? Are you on whatsapp? I barely check my messages, hence i take time to respond

She is actually responding fairly quickly. I don't want to get too realtime, and generally try to avoid too much electronic contact, so I deflect a bit:

I did but I gotta reinstall it. So, do you have other family here?

I am asking her this because it would make it easier for her to get someone to look after her son while she comes out to meet me. Unfortunately, for as much as the girl seems interested, the situation is getting worse by the second:

Not really, its me and my son now

It's now fairly late into the night before Sunday and, for as much as I want to respond, I have no idea what response wouldn't be going backwards so I just leave it.

How do you guys think I should handle this?


Meanwhile...

This isn't essential to the above, but since I haven't posted much in a long time I'll note where I'm at.

After seven painful years of debilitating approach inhibition, I finally figured out how to overcome it easily. I can't express how terrible it had been to have actually seen first-hand how easily I could sometimes get a chick into bed from day game, and yet go without any at infinitum because I just couldn't pick up my balls and approach them in any useful numbers to repeat that isolated success.

I eventually came to largely not even bother with game in my present location because I felt it was a waste of time due to the inhibition, and that in order to kick that, I needed to move somewhere where my favorite flavor is the majority, so that my motivation to approach would be a lot more concentrated. And, somewhere without a pussified anti-masculine culture pumping into my brain.

But recently I serendipitously learned what was psychologically perpetuating my inhibition, at which point I knocked it way, way down, virtually overnight. It used to be I had to spend 10+ hours in a busy megamall just to talk to a couple of girls. Now, in less time I can approach 10+. It used to be that I would chicken out on 100% of all incidental opportunities, and the only time I'd ever approach a girl would be on a day-long dedicated approach mission. But now I approach a girl almost every time I do grocery shopping unless it's quiet.

I've started to meet cute African chicks—a fairly small minority here—at a rate that until very recently I expected I'd have to be in Africa to do. I still want to move for other reasons, but I'm much less miserable!

 

[OldGuy]

Some thoughts:
1. It sounds like her son will be in all day school, so your schedules might work for daytime meetups.
2. Evening get together at her place. Dinner with her and son, bonding with them until his bedtime, then time alone with her.
My own experience was with women with younger children (1-3) or 17, so different problems.

 

[ThePhoenix]

Hey @OldGuy, thank you for the ideas.

1. It sounds like her son will be in all day school, so your schedules might work for daytime meetups.

This is a possibility, though I have to wait for her to get the kid into school.

If it's the public system, it's only 6 hours from arrival to dismissal. That absolutely could be enough time, but it's subject to a lot of contingencies that could cut it close. Certainly I would have to, once home, get my hands into her clothes a lot faster than I've done before, but it would do me well to get used to that kind of time pressure, because a chick doesn't always have all day.

One good thing I just found out is she likely drives, which makes logistics less tricky.

2. Evening get together at her place. Dinner with her and son, bonding with them until his bedtime, then time alone with her.

That gave me an interesting idea. I'm thinking maybe express curiosity in Kenyan food and ask her if she cooks it. Basically I'm trying to figure out, if it comes down to her place being the best spot, how to get invited directly.

Usually I would go for a coffee date because it's seemingly innocuous and I can warm the girl up a bit before pulling home. I did get a girl on a first date directly at my home a while back (and she brought me food), but I pulled that by making her guilty for canceling on a prior date. I'm not sure how to do it in this case, though.

I'm also a tiny bit worried about meeting the son prior to having sex with the woman. I'm not against meeting him, but I'm not trying to become his new daddy. As a foreign single mom alone in the country, I could see her try to slow game the older guy into the husband role. If logistics make it easier to meet them together prior to isolating her, how do I guard against her getting the wrong expectations?

My non-verbals etc. aren't terrible but they're probably not honed so well as to already be safely out of potential boyfriend territory.

One big thing I do have on my side is that there's no way I'll submit to that role. I'll just find another her tomorrow. Already talking to another beautiful African chick I like even more. That's really key, you have to be 100% ready to walk away if it won't go your way. But, obviously I'd like it to go my way, so I'm trying to work out the best move.

That last message she sent, I left it alone all of Sunday (after a dice roll to decide whether to avoid texting every day landed on wait) and then late this morning I wrote her:

Hey Claire.. btw what made you pick [distant mall] to show your son? You live out that way?

I wrote this mainly because I wanted to know for logistics how far she lives. She replied back fairly quickly:

Hey, this is a beautiful restaurant in [distant mall] that I love, and I love driving around

Her text is a bit ambiguous (especially her not being an L1 English speaker—Niger-Congo languages have an entirely different system of pronouns and determiners) as to whether this is a place she took her son to, or somewhere she wants us to meet. I'm not really into going to restaurants with girls I haven't slept with yet, it's a little boyfriendy, especially if it's fancy, and I'm especially sensitive to this with a girl in her position.

Now I'm trying to figure out my next move. Waiting for the kid to enroll may make it easier to get her alone initially, albeit with time constraints, but also means further delay. It's already been over a month since our first meeting. Trying to invite myself directly to her home could be too fast, is not the agreed-upon plan (coffee), and forces me to meet the kid first, but may be possible to do a little sooner and makes our time alone less pressured.

I could maybe try to get her to coffee blindly, with a possibility she ends up bringing the kid, and if she does, try to invite myself to her home, maybe via Kenyan food, but it seems like a long shot to make it happen same day (too easy for her to say "yes, another time", especially since she may be unprepared at home), and if it doesn't happen same day, things usually don't end well. I'd almost rather try to come to her home directly, because at least if she does agree, I probably have her, so I don't waste my time.

I almost want to use her lack of babysitting as an excuse to meet at her home. I wonder how honest I could be about wanting time alone with her. Normally it would be more of an "it just happened" rather than premeditated on her part, and that avoids ASD. This girl does seem pretty compliant.. I don't know where her limit is.

Tricky call.

 

[Orchard]

I would go on another date. Even if the kid is around. Seed some physical touch - let her have something to fantasize about.

regarding logistics - child care takes awhile to find - so she is figuring that out. That is her job as the woman. It’s a lot of work!
So I suggest going on another date, don’t worry about sex, just keep her warm until the kid is in school. Then, once she is free, she can have that good time with you cause you have not been pressuring her.

 

[OldGuy]

Two things:
Google will let you see pictures of the restaurant and sample menu to find out what type.
If she says you have to go so she can put him to bed, it is not happening.
If she says let her put him to bed and then we will talk, it is happening.

 

[ThePhoenix]

I would go on another date. Even if the kid is around. Seed some physical touch - let her have something to fantasize about.

...
So I suggest going on another date, don’t worry about sex, just keep her warm until the kid is in school. Then, once she is free, she can have that good time with you cause you have not been pressuring her.

The intentions here are good, and I think some really advanced guys could possibly take this approach and have it work well, only because they're oozing sexy from their ears, but at my present skill level I see this as a huge trap.

Just to clarify, it wouldn't be "another" date, I haven't met up with her yet at all, quite intentionally.

Women instinctively sort men into badboy vs. husbandly, as I noted in more detail here. It seems the first date is often the final linchpin for this, and not always, but very, very typically, if sex hasn't occurred on the first date, one of two things will happen:

1. She takes you for a good husband candidate. Huuuuuge resistance to sex until a firm monogamy commitment is in place. Superhero balls might get you through, but I'm not a superhero yet.
   
2. Takes you for neither good lover nor husband. Goes cold. Probably never see her again. If you even do get her out again, she's extremely testy. I've had the misfortune of a date with a girl after missing a window. Wasn't pretty. The forums are just littered with similar stories.

Now, context is important, but the context here is not on my side. This is a Kenyan girl, straight up from Nairobi. Guys who go game in Africa, often say, skip Kenya, they're materialistic, uppity, much less chill than in many other countries, even their neighbours next door. Nairobi in particular will be even worse.

Actually, a top guy told me personally (because I love African chicks) to be careful there and to try to get more experience first, because African chicks are remarkably adept at manipulating men into the provider role unless you have a very strong frame. Probably no accident, most of this guy's experience with African chicks was Kenyans.

By all means escalating on a 2nd date is certainly not impossible. I did get a girl on a 2nd date which was straight to my home after 1st date, which was coffee. Unfortunately I barely escalated (never saw her again of course). I suspect I could've taken her then if I had've. But that was a really chill Trini girl who I had a lot of social proof with, not a Kenyan single mother trying to set up shop in a new country.

TBH, I'm already skeptical over why she even brought up the kid. It could simply be innocent, because he has an impact on logistics. But she could also be concerned whether I'll accept him, which isn't really a badboy lover frame.

So, it's one thing if I'm blindsided into a no-sex date, but I don't want to plan it that way.

Google will let you see pictures of the restaurant and sample menu to find out what type.

Great idea for future reference.

In this particular case I don't know the name because she only mentioned it in a bit of a circumspect manner, without naming it, and I decided to navigate away from that road because I don't really love the idea of any restaurant. I usually shoot for coffee, because in several ways it makes it much easier to stay out of boyfriend territory, and that concern applies doubly or triply in this case.

If she says you have to go so she can put him to bed, it is not happening.
If she says let her put him to bed and then we will talk, it is happening.

Awesome, makes perfect sense. Thank you!


What I ended up reasoning is, so as to not move too slowly due to waiting for school or babysitting, first see if I can get an invite to dinner at hers directly. Not ideal but at least there's a pretty quick, low friction flow into isolation. If she does not go for it, then try for coffee during school and hope the timing is not too tight.

With that in mind I sent this the day after her last message:

You sound like a connoisseur of food. You make it too, or just eat it?

The thinking was to divert from the restaurant idea, possibly open an avenue to a home date, and also tease a bit, because I've been a little too pedestrian thus far and don't want to be the nice guy.

She did not answer.

TBH I'm losing motivation with this one. She's not taller than me, which several of the African chicks I've talked to recently are; she wears weave; and initially she seemed really compliant but now I have to navigate a whole minefield of provider frame.

I focused on other chicks and even went on a date with another girl I met on that same day (FR pending).

After 9 days went by, I sent her this today:

Hey Claire! Got your boy in school yet?

Not sure if maybe that was too abrupt after a long silence, and her reply, within a few minutes, was not good:

Hey Floenix [sic], may I ask what you are interested in because I don't really get you.... I don't do inconsistent. You can pass thanks.

The boyfriend framing is barely even masked. I almost wonder if I got this due to timing. If I assume by her compliance that she was fertile on the day I approached her, she probably is right now infertile—the point where females are more in "lock down a provider" mode.

I'm well aware you can't let things a woman says get to you, so I just sent this, after some number of minutes:

Didn't hear from you in a bit, was busy myself too, so just thought I'd see what you're up to. No biggie.

Two or three hours later she put a like on my last message. Interesting.

I'm gonna go do another day at the mall soon to chat up more chicks, and I see that as a better option than this one, but just for the hell of it I wonder what'd be my best move on this one now, or if it's even worth bothering.