What's new

Having sex feels… wrong

TrailBlazer

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Aug 15, 2025
Messages
116
I find it really hard to believe that people actually have sex. Or that women want it and enjoy it.

If people really enjoy sex, why is it so extremely difficult to have it? Why does a guy have to study hundreds of articles and approach thousands of women?

And most importantly, why do we have to “violate” women in order to make it happen? Why do we have to be aggressive? Why do we have to pass tests and overcome resistance? Is that actually how men have sex? They force/manipulate the woman to have it? And eventually she just gives in? That feels SO wrong!

The whole seduction process feels wrong, like we basically force ourselves into women’s lives. Don’t agree? Well - what would happen in we did nothing and stayed home all day? Nothing! So we do have to take action and that feels really pushy to me.

It’s all so foreign, and that’s coming from a guy who already had sex a few times and always on first dates. So I should understand but I still don’t.

edit: And I’m not saying this because I care too much about women’s wellbeing or whatever, I don't care about that. I just don’t understand why I have to take so many risks. What if I’m not that brave? I feel incredibly weak and unable to do any of this “advanced life” stuff like sex! I literally still feel like a child…
 

ThePhoenix

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Nov 14, 2017
Messages
325
Writing quickly...

Nature's game.

Firstly, why sexual reproduction? Current theory is it's due to pathogens. Rapid mutation of genes such that the child may have immunity to pathogens the mother doesn't. Also allows for faster evolution.

Any organism that has no desire for sex, its genes will die off and so quickly the only genes left are those that code for an organism that wants sex. Thus sex drive, in both sexes. Both genders are rewarded by orgasm for having sex.

Crucial to realize females DO want and enjoy sex, but you need to appreciate reproductive asymmetry.

Male can make a baby in 2 minutes.

Female's body is taken over for 9 months during which she can't accept any other male's genes, and then her resources are sapped for 12+ years.

So it is a double-edged sword for her. If she does, it's a massive investment. If she doesn't, her genes die off.

Consequence is that she must have sex, but she must be careful which male, so that huge investment is maximized by best paternal genes. So she puts up these tests, resistance, etc.

How do females pick the best genes? Lots of disagreement on this, and incels have a negative, fatalistic viewpoint in which it's all about inherent looks. I prefer a different view.

In my research both of science and of seduction anecdotes, and personal experience with how females behave towards me when I behave in different ways, I believe that females are driven to obtain sperm from polygamous males and resources to care for their offspring from monogamous males. Tons of science says this, I don't have time to list it all but for instance, research has shown that women are most attracted to badboys when they are about to ovulate, and husbandly types during their infertile phase. Lots of other science points in the same direction including human penile shape/size comparative study with other primates, sperm competition, high EPP (Extra-Pair Paternity) in many species previously believed to be monogamous, list goes on and on. (Current EPP numbers in humans aren't that high but remember we have birth control, paternity tests, child support laws, etc.... I casually recall long ago hearing of research where DNA from exhumed bones showed much higher EPP in centuries past, but don't quote me on this.)

You've personally observed a consequence of exactly the same thing: chicks totally digged you until you didn't fuck them first date, and now they're cold!

Why polygamous male? Sexy Son Hypothesis. We have to assume promiscuity is heritable, but if it is, it becomes mathematically demonstrable that the female will get vastly more 2nd degree offspring (grandchildren) out of a promiscuous male than a monogamous one. This is because the monogamous male can only have a dozen or so children, the promiscuous, potentially thousands. That means the females who prefer to be impregnated by polygamous males will quickly dominate the gene pool until virtually all females prefer to be impregnated by polygamous males. Remember, this is under prehistoric conditions, evolution is slow so that's where our genes are from, prehistory. Most babies died so sheer numbers are significant.

But the polygamous male doesn't invest in offspring, so the female plays a game in which she locks down the silly monogamous one to look after that.

It all may seem barbaric but that's how evolution works: survival of the fittest. There's a lot of really brutal stuff in nature, it's just nature.

But PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't think females don't want and enjoy sex. Absolutely do. Don't feel ashamed for wanting it, your life as a male animal will be miserable otherwise.

Totally unproofed but had to give quick pic.
 
Last edited:

TrailBlazer

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Aug 15, 2025
Messages
116
Writing quickly...

Nature's game.

Firstly, why sexual reproduction? Current theory is it's due to pathogens. Rapid mutation of genes such that the child may have immunity to pathogens the mother doesn't. Also allows for faster evolution.

Any organism that has no desire for sex, its genes will die off and so quickly the only genes left are those that code for an organism that wants sex. Thus sex drive, in both sexes. Both genders are rewarded by orgasm for having sex.

Crucial to realize females DO want and enjoy sex, but you need to appreciate reproductive asymmetry.

Male can make a baby in 2 minutes.

Female's body is taken over for 9 months during which she can't accept any other male's genes, and then her resources are sapped for 12+ years.

So it is a double-edged sword for her. If she does, it's a massive investment. If she doesn't, her genes die off.

Consequence is that she must have sex, but she must be careful which male, so that huge investment is maximized by best paternal genes. So she puts up these tests, resistance, etc.

How do females pick the best genes? Lots of disagreement on this, and incels have a negative, fatalistic viewpoint in which it's all about inherent looks. I prefer a different view.

In my research both of science and of seduction anecdotes, and personal experience with how females behave towards me when I behave in different ways, I believe that females are driven to obtain sperm from polygamous males and resources to care for their offspring from monogamous males. Tons of science says this, I don't have time to list it all but for instance, research has shown that women are most attracted to badboys when they are about to ovulate, and husbandly types during their infertile phase. Lots of other science points in the same direction including human penile shape/size comparative study with other primates, sperm competition, high EPP in many species previously believed to be monogamous, list goes on and on. (Current EPP numbers in humans aren't that high but remember we have birth control, paternity tests, etc.... I casually recall long ago hearing of research where DNA from exhumed bones showed much higher EPP in centuries past, but don't quote me on this.)

You've personally observed a consequence of exactly the same thing: chicks totally digged you until you didn't fuck them first date, and now they're cold!

Why polygamous male? Sexy Son Hypothesis. We have to assume promiscuity is heritable, but if it is, it becomes mathematically demonstrable that the female will get vastly more 2nd degree offspring (grandchildren) out of a promiscuous male than a monogamous one. This is because the monogamous male can only have a dozen or so children, the promiscuous, potentially thousands. That means the females who prefer to be impregnated by polygamous males will quickly dominate the gene pool until virtually all females prefer to be impregnated by polygamous males. Remember, this is under prehistoric conditions, evolution is slow so that's where our genes are from, prehistory. Most babies died so sheer numbers are significant.

But the polygamous male doesn't invest in offspring, so the female plays a game in which she locks down the silly monogamous one to look after that.

It all may seem barbaric but that's how evolution works: survival of the fittest. There's a lot of really brutal stuff in nature, it's just nature.

But PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't think females don't want and enjoy sex. Absolutely do. Don't feel ashamed for wanting it, your life as a male animal will be miserable otherwise.

Totally unproofed but had to give quick pic.

Thank you. But I don’t feel like a part of this process at all. On paper yes, I’m a male and so it should be okay for me to go and get sex.

But in reality it feels very wrong for me to do that. To just take what I want. Like who do I think I am?

Also on what grounds do I base this belief that it’s okay for me to go out there and assert myself? I don’t have any base confidence like that - I want women because their approval will be that base confidence. I can’t just mindlessly decide “I am good enough”.- because acting like I am but not being good enough can get me rejected and ridiculed quite quickly.

And also it’s all too fast for me. You miss a window and the woman finds another guy. Why can’t they be tpatient so that I can learn?

It’s not supposed to be a competition but it sure feels like one. Noone waits for me, noone truly wants me to succeed, everyone is out for themselves. Not the life I signed up for when I was a child. At least we have this website and each other here.
 

StrayDog

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Feb 23, 2022
Messages
965
And I’m not saying this because I care too much about women’s wellbeing or whatever, I don't care about that.
Personally I care a great deal about a women's well being. Especially the ones I'm intimate with. And to that point.


And most importantly, why do we have to “violate” women in order to make it happen? Why do we have to be aggressive? Why do we have to pass tests and overcome resistance? Is that actually how men have sex? They force/manipulate the woman to have it? And eventually she just gives in? That feels SO wrong!
I don't know about you but I personally aim to create win win interactions with her women I am with. Maybe you force or manipulate women, but I personally interact with them and discover what their desires and boundaries are, and aim to speak to those aspects of her being that feel open to and ready to accept and erotic connection together. If she is hesitant I don't force or manipulate her, I find out what her hesitation is and see if I can't offer an alternate solution that helps her to feel comfortable sharing intimacy together. If she doesn't accept this I just see it as is not being much aligned at that moment and move on. Maybe if things are in a limbo sort of stage where this is unclear I might persist a bit to see if the opportunity is still there for the both of us. But it is a mutual collaboration.

so any way man. I am not sure what you are on about, but it is clear you have many hang ups around sex and I am not sure what all we can help you with here in that regard.




The whole seduction process feels wrong, like we basically force ourselves into women’s lives. Don’t agree? Well - what would happen in we did nothing and stayed home all day? Nothing! So we do have to take action and that feels really pushy to me.
Dude, how about we just sit still 24/7 and do nothing until our bodies wither?

you are not forcing yourself into a woman's life if she is happy to accept your presence.

Like for real, how do you think that the human species has continued on for as long as it has?
 

Atlas IV

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
May 21, 2023
Messages
583
Like for real, how do you think that the human species has continued on for as long as it has?
100%.

Guys who "force themselves into women's lives" get to pass on their genes and further the species. Those who don't (like OP it seems) end up being the last in their genetic lineage. Simple as that.

It's just natural selection, exactly the same as in the animal kingdom. Nothing to do with morality.
 

ThePhoenix

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Nov 14, 2017
Messages
325
(Firstly, re. my prior post, I should mention for completeness that there are other factors, even science-backed, to attraction beyond just male promiscuity, but I tend to emphasize that one because it's pretty powerful and it's the most counter-intuitive one for most guys. But that's kind of besides the point of your concerns.)

I can appreciate your lamenting this seeming like a competition, but that's the reality of it, it is. You have to accept that.

I've been both lucky and unlucky. I'm old enough to be a grandfather and don't even have children yet, only had sex small handful of times, in no small part because I allowed myself to be brainwashed by society's bullshit for many many years, I was stuck in one oneitis after another, some very long, was almost delusional for a while, got really negative and destitute for a while re. females, started to learn some things but then even after struggled with extremely bad approach inhibition for seven years. But I did have some experiences that directed me to understanding some things about females most men never understand which I know are going to help me overcome all this. So likely I'll still breed in the end but there were multiple points where if I had've been any less intelligent or the wind hadn't have happened to blow a certain way, I would probably have died a virgin, Phoenix genes go extinct.

You could argue it's "unfair" but it's just nature. I only am glad I started figuring things out before too late, plus I took fairly good care of myself plus have decent enough genes, I can get chicks way younger to look at me (first lay from day game, I spent nothing on her, chick almost half my age, and she was not fat or unattractive).

I have occasionally heard guys with your same argument, "girls should make it easier on me." But why the fuck would they?? It's not good for their genes. Picture it like this. Take the most ugly, teeth missing, deformed face, land whale of a woman you can imagine. Maybe no guy wants to fuck her. Now I come along and tell you, you have to fuck her and spend 18 years raising a kid with her, with her deformed genes mixed with yours, because she needs luvin' too, and she doesn't deserve her genes to die off. You're not going to go for that! Why would a woman be any different?

(I'm not saying you're a deformed land whale, but when you don't know how to seduce a girl, you're basically the equivalent for her. But you can change that, by learning.)

As for feeling unworthy, you seem partly to feel unworthy based on this:
...because acting like I am but not being good enough can get me rejected and ridiculed quite quickly.

You actually are capable of being a great thing to a woman, but not in your present state. That's something you have to learn, but the thing is, how do you learn it if you feel too guilty to try?

In order to learn any skill, you have to be willing to totally fuck things up as many times as it takes to figure out how to do it right.

Based on your other thread I think you really need to focus more on cold approach as opposed to social circle, because you seem hung up over this rejection and ridicule, but if you're approaching random women there is literally no consequence to her rejection or ridicule beyond that moment. You just brush your shoulder and try again, trying to do better each time. But with social circle your sexual failures have persistent consequences and this may be amplifying your insecurities.

Not to mention, it's comparatively really hard to learn by social circle because you don't have a clean slate to experiment with. Trying a different style game on those same girls isn't going to tell you anything because they already remember what you did before so the effect isn't going to be the same as it would have been had you gone with that style or approach or tactic from the beginning.

And, re-read the last post I wrote in that thread, especially if you're having trouble being brave, because your self-talk and assumptions and expectations have a huge impact on outcomes.

Don't worry about disappointing or putting off random women in the learning process. It's a fact of life people are going to have interactions with inept people. I've been hit on by extremely awkward gay men who didn't have the intuition to realize I wasn't gay. I don't really care, it was no skin off my back. Girls likely deal with lots of this. As you learn more, they will enjoy your company more. But you have to start somewhere.

It's ok to have a degree of selfishness, it's part of life. Organisms that don't prioritize their own needs die off. It doesn't mean you're doing something negative to the female. They do actually enjoy males who are somewhat aggressive with them, on some instinctive level they actually want that. Obviously respect her boundaries and do your best to be something she enjoys. You'll get better with practice and learning.

Just by your hang-ups I'm gonna guess you were raised in the Western world. It's getting more dysfunctional and pussified by the day. We used to have a playground saying to rebuke verbal insults, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me." I saw a while back a bus poster saying, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will make me kill myself." Absolutely pathetic. Try your best to get stupid bullshit like that out of your head.
 
Last edited:

Levo

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Messages
69
I find it really hard to believe that people actually have sex. Or that women want it and enjoy it.

If people really enjoy sex, why is it so extremely difficult to have it? Why does a guy have to study hundreds of articles and approach thousands of women?

And most importantly, why do we have to “violate” women in order to make it happen? Why do we have to be aggressive? Why do we have to pass tests and overcome resistance? Is that actually how men have sex? They force/manipulate the woman to have it? And eventually she just gives in? That feels SO wrong!

We don't have to do all this, it comes natural to some guys.

The reason we do it is because women want selection and dont want to end up with guys who are like:

I just don’t understand why I have to take so many risks. What if I’m not that brave? I feel incredibly weak and unable to do any of this “advanced life” stuff like sex! I literally still feel like a child…
 

average_daygamer

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Apr 5, 2025
Messages
292
I find it really hard to believe that people actually have sex. Or that women want it and enjoy it.

If people really enjoy sex, why is it so extremely difficult to have it? Why does a guy have to study hundreds of articles and approach thousands of women?

And most importantly, why do we have to “violate” women in order to make it happen? Why do we have to be aggressive? Why do we have to pass tests and overcome resistance? Is that actually how men have sex? They force/manipulate the woman to have it? And eventually she just gives in? That feels SO wrong!

The whole seduction process feels wrong, like we basically force ourselves into women’s lives. Don’t agree? Well - what would happen in we did nothing and stayed home all day? Nothing! So we do have to take action and that feels really pushy to me.

It’s all so foreign, and that’s coming from a guy who already had sex a few times and always on first dates. So I should understand but I still don’t.

edit: And I’m not saying this because I care too much about women’s wellbeing or whatever, I don't care about that. I just don’t understand why I have to take so many risks. What if I’m not that brave? I feel incredibly weak and unable to do any of this “advanced life” stuff like sex! I literally still feel like a child…
I could have written this myself, it definitely resonates with me.

It does seem that women operate on a completely different level than us as men. It seems that their attraction is very circumstantial. I certainly find it hard to believe chicks actually want to get laid. Even when they go on nights out their main focus seems to be getting drunk and singing loudly with friends.

I feel like I just want to be cool and sit back and somehow, casually get the girl interested, but it doesn't work like that. You have to make a big, bold manoeuvre for them to even notice you. And then when you do, you risk seeming needy, even if you aren't.

It just seems like chicks are so passive to the point where you can't tell whether your attention is wanted or not. Definitely getting laid through cold approach feels like a pipe dream for me at the moment, so I am a bit behind you in terms of understanding.

I should imagine, when I do (hopefully) get to that point, it's gonna feel like I am breaking the law. I have felt that on the odd occasion in the club when I got to touch a girl, it felt like I was doing something wrong and was going to get bundled out and arrested. I have consumed so much pickup media telling me the opposite which is only just starting to help. I guess I need to find more chicks that are into me that will help me but that needs a lot more volume than my local city provides.
 

TrailBlazer

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Aug 15, 2025
Messages
116
Personally I care a great deal about a women's well being. Especially the ones I'm intimate with. And to that point.



I don't know about you but I personally aim to create win win interactions with her women I am with. Maybe you force or manipulate women, but I personally interact with them and discover what their desires and boundaries are, and aim to speak to those aspects of her being that feel open to and ready to accept and erotic connection together. If she is hesitant I don't force or manipulate her, I find out what her hesitation is and see if I can't offer an alternate solution that helps her to feel comfortable sharing intimacy together. If she doesn't accept this I just see it as is not being much aligned at that moment and move on. Maybe if things are in a limbo sort of stage where this is unclear I might persist a bit to see if the opportunity is still there for the both of us. But it is a mutual collaboration.

so any way man. I am not sure what you are on about, but it is clear you have many hang ups around sex and I am not sure what all we can help you with here in that regard.





Dude, how about we just sit still 24/7 and do nothing until our bodies wither?

you are not forcing yourself into a woman's life if she is happy to accept your presence.

Like for real, how do you think that the human species has continued on for as long as it has?

But what makes you think that you personally are good enough for all this? That you’re meant to reproduce? Has someone told you that they want your genes to continue? Or, to truly demonstrate how I feel about myself: has someone told you that you existing is good? I’m sure that your existence is good but I’m not sure about mine. And that bleeds into all areas of my life.

Maybe you cooperate with women, well I can’t because no one wants me anywhere. I might as well be the most hated person ever - that’s how I feel.

Dammit and I thought that after having friends and a couple of lays this feeling will go away. It didn’t!
 

StrayDog

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Feb 23, 2022
Messages
965
But what makes you think that you personally are good enough for all this? That you’re meant to reproduce? Has someone told you that they want your genes to continue? Or, to truly demonstrate how I feel about myself: has someone told you that you existing is good? I’m sure that your existence is good but I’m not sure about mine. And that bleeds into all areas of my life.

Maybe you cooperate with women, well I can’t because no one wants me anywhere. I might as well be the most hated person ever - that’s how I feel.

Dammit and I thought that after having friends and a couple of lays this feeling will go away. It didn’t!
dude I'm not even kidding, and of course there are a lot of considerations to doing something like this, but maybe look into doing an Ayahuasca ceremony or something of that nature (hypnotherapy, maybe).

granted you're not schizoaffective, or on SSRIs, have some other contraindicated condition. Obviously research first.
 
Last edited:

POB

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
1,493
I find it really hard to believe that people actually have sex. Or that women want it and enjoy it.
Of course they don't enjoy it.
Don't you know we have to always force our presence upon them by using gaslighting and mental coercion?
If people really enjoy sex, why is it so extremely difficult to have it? Why does a guy have to study hundreds of articles and approach thousands of women?
Lemme correct you here: tens of thousands.
If you are not into the 5 digit approach club, you are failing.
And most importantly, why do we have to “violate” women in order to make it happen? Why do we have to be aggressive? Why do we have to pass tests and overcome resistance? Is that actually how men have sex? They force/manipulate the woman to have it? And eventually she just gives in? That feels SO wrong!
That's EXACLTY how we should do it.
Way to go!
The whole seduction process feels wrong, like we basically force ourselves into women’s lives. Don’t agree? Well - what would happen in we did nothing and stayed home all day? Nothing! So we do have to take action and that feels really pushy to me.
Oh no, you don't have to do that.
Just build a million dollar bank account, get ripped and you will have to start cleaning your porch from the pussy avalanche that will come.
It’s all so foreign, and that’s coming from a guy who already had sex a few times and always on first dates. So I should understand but I still don’t.
Don't beat yourself, you got it just fine.
edit: And I’m not saying this because I care too much about women’s wellbeing or whatever, I don't care about that. I just don’t understand why I have to take so many risks. What if I’m not that brave? I feel incredibly weak and unable to do any of this “advanced life” stuff like sex! I literally still feel like a child…
Women's wellbeing is for pussies.
Real men just take what they want.
 
Last edited:

OldGuy

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jun 10, 2017
Messages
330
The Dutch did a very good study on EPP (basically are all male line great-grand kids same Y gene) and found that EPP was 1% for high status husbands up to 5% for low status husbands. Now about 1/6 of children were born to unmarried women, so about 20% of children were fathered by men who were not married to the mother. Another point is that many of those children were fathered by men who were married to other women (both ways are often combined).
Of course, some of the unmarried mothers were in unofficial poly marriages.
 
the right date makes getting her back home a piece of cake

Orchard

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 27, 2025
Messages
40
Women’s wellbeing is thjob. Your job is your own well being.

Do you have any emotional or sx abuse that you’ve been dealing with? This mindset is familiar to me.
 

ThePhoenix

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Nov 14, 2017
Messages
325
But what makes you think that you personally are good enough for all this? That you’re meant to reproduce? Has someone told you that they want your genes to continue? ...
Do you think animals have to get permission to reproduce? Nobody is there to pat them on the back and tell them they deserve to pass on their genes. Literally there would be no life on Earth.

If you can get a girl to spread her legs, you pump your sperm into her, if she lets you get her pregnant that is (1) the only permission you need, and (2) the only permission you're ever going to get, to reproduce.


Why does a guy have to ... approach thousands of women?
This is 1000% a fucking limiting belief.

When I first got a girl from day game to spread her legs for me, I had only approached about 60 girls. And it didn't even have to be that many. After only about 10 or 20 I got one who was a green light but she lived far, I don't drive, and botched the logistics and then lost her for missing the window.

That first one, part of why I botched the logistics is because I didn't fully realize how much of a green light it was until after I posted the conversation here and an experienced guy (@Seppuku) broke it down for me, yeah, she totally wanted to meet me that night. But I had this idea in my head it was hard to get girls so I didn't realize until too late. Next day I got a wall of text, which was translated for me as my reward for frustrating her sexually.

As long as you understand a few basic things, like moving fast, not supplicating, being promiscuous, it's really not that hard.

What if I’m not that brave?
Listen to this very carefully. You absolutely need to stop seeing this as a problem. The reason is, the brain is mostly irrational and tends to act out its existing beliefs. So just by thinking this is a problem, you will be making it a problem. I was caught in that vicious cycle for years, an unending cycle of chickening out on cold approaches. You chickened out 1000 times before, why wouldn't you chicken out again? You come to expect it, and unfortunately, if that's what you expect yourself to do, your brain will act accordingly.

What you do is, you hammer it into your brain as much as it takes to believe it that you don't chicken out on girls. I literally went through and deleted years of notes on ideas to overcome approach inhibition. Just replaced them all with a note, "deleted because inhibition is not a problem for me, I approach lots of girls, I approach any girl I want."

It almost seems like you're lying to yourself, brainwashing even, but actually it's not lying, because you've got two legs and a mouth so there's totally no reason you couldn't actually do it. I told myself, "I'm going to the mall today and I'm going to approach 10 girls today." Not, "try to approach 10", not "my goal is to," just, "I'm going to." You don't leave any room to go back on it. I ended up approaching 11 girls.


It just seems like chicks are so passive...
They are passive. Why do you think that when you won't do something brave you will be called a "pussy"? During escalation you'll discover that there's a point where a switch flips in her head and she becomes sexually aggressive, but you need to be aggressive yourself in order to ever see this happen. You just have to accept that's their nature, it's the sperm that does the swimming, the egg just sits there waiting.


...it's gonna feel like I am breaking the law. I have felt that on the odd occasion in the club when I got to touch a girl, it felt like I was doing something wrong and was going to get bundled out and arrested.
I hate to say but I think you guys are a product of all the anti-masculine bullshit Western media and politics have been increasingly spewing over the years. Like that disgusting "the best a man can be" Gillette ad that demonized male sexual advances. I honestly think I should make sure I don't knock up a girl until I'm living in Africa, because in the Western world, if it's a boy, he's screwed.
 

Orchard

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 27, 2025
Messages
40
I honestly think I should make sure I don't knock up a girl until I'm living in Africa, because in the Western world, if it's a boy, he's screwed
Hahaha you’ll be fine if you have a boy here. You just gotta step up and be a real dad for him so he knows what his job is!

Btw. You really knocked it out of the park with your post. Really great stuff.
 

Julian

Rookie
Rookie
Joined
Aug 13, 2025
Messages
6
Hey OP.

I thought exactly like you do until very recently.

As a matter of fact, I am probably more inexperienced than you, but I came to realize a few things about dating, mostly by reading Girlschase article and getting more social:
  • I was a very shy boy when I was in school. Sometimes, cool kids would come to talk to me to include me to the class events and invite me to parties. I was glad they came to me, because I would not have approached them. Girls are also very shy when it comes to approaching, and in fact you are doing them a favour by doing the hard work of initiating a conversation. If she is interested, good, if she is not, goodbye, and onto the next one.
  • You’re worried you’re not good enough for girls and you’re not bringing enough value to them. But by approaching them, you’re showing them courage, which in itself is an attractive trait they actively look for in males. It’s pretty interesting: if you don’t approach, you are right that you’re not bringing value to them because you are shy, but if you do actually approach them, you do bring value to them because you’re brave.
  • You may be worried, as I was, that you are a "genetical deadend" because you don’t have the level a success in dating you wish you had, and you lay the blame on your genetics. You have to keep in mine that the western world you’ve grown up in is highly nihilistic currently, and makes everyone miserable. Also, don’t forget that every single one of your male ancestors reproduced and were deemed worthy of transmitting their genes by your female ancestors. If you’re not getting the girls you want, the problem lays most likely in the way you behaves, and can be fixed by actively working on it.
 

D. Gately

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Mar 16, 2020
Messages
364
The Dutch did a very good study on EPP (basically are all male line great-grand kids same Y gene) and found that EPP was 1% for high status husbands up to 5% for low status husbands. Now about 1/6 of children were born to unmarried women, so about 20% of children were fathered by men who were not married to the mother. Another point is that many of those children were fathered by men who were married to other women (both ways are often combined).
Of course, some of the unmarried mothers were in unofficial poly marriages.

There was a study in the UK in Reading some years ago, that came to the same conclusion, about 20% of the children were not fathered by the man married to their mother.

The scientists were wondering if this was higher than they expected because they were in a large urban area, so they did the same study in the suburbs/exurbs. They got the same answer.

The older I get the less I'm surprised by this.
 

ThePhoenix

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Nov 14, 2017
Messages
325
Hahaha you’ll be fine if you have a boy here. You just gotta step up and be a real dad for him so he knows what his job is!
Haha, thank you! I'd be torn though, I'd rather be in Africa for a number of other reasons as well..


@TrailBlazer, I should really also note:
... Or, to truly demonstrate how I feel about myself: ... I’m sure that your existence is good but I’m not sure about mine. And that bleeds into all areas of my life.

... I can’t because no one wants me anywhere. I might as well be the most hated person ever - that’s how I feel.

Dammit and I thought that after having friends and a couple of lays this feeling will go away. It didn’t!
I have a friend who has suffered severe depression for decades. This sounds reminiscent of things he would say.

I would look into whether maybe you have depression. If so, I don't have any first-hand insight to offer on that problem, but you should search the main site (click Home) and/or forum... for instance:

How to Overcome Depression
 
Top