Troll attention-seeking thread

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Niwoor222

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I am kind of talking things here that is obvious.

The reason why push-pull technique exists is because We don't wanna give our power away too soon when showing interest early in set (in the attraction phase). I think we all agree with that right? The exponent in this topic is Todd Valentine and his concept of "Premise" instead of intent.

Ok, now my realization related with this topic of not giving your power away is that even if you do not give your power away at the first half of the seduction process you will still have to do it in the second half of the seduction process when you escalate the vibe, be it in the comfort phase, the date, your house but it is inevitable, Is that right or not?

Therefore if we have to give our power away in a form of SOI or Physical escalation at the house. Why not to do it at the beginning of the second half of the seduction process instead of later? I mean, as fast as possible?

I used to follow the general idea of the Mystery Method: Attraction - Comfort - Seduction. The problem with this is that when you are in set you usually tend to delay escalation because you think that the girl need comfort first and an emotional connection. The idea of Comfort before escalation was really making me lose a lot of girls. Now I can see how ridiculous is delaying escalation to build comfort first. I was basically trying for deep rapport and occasionally throwing some sexual inuendo but my main focus was comfort (wtf?). I threw Comfort out of the fucking window

Building Rapport and an emotional connection with the girl made me fail everytime. Now I throw all of that shit out of the window and I escalate as soon as she give me IOIs and when I fail I do not say is because I needed comfort and an emotional connection. I do never try for comfort anymore. I only escalate and for me the mystery method is now: Attraction - Escalation - Sex. Fuck Comfort!!
 
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DarkKnight

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@Chase

Chase I want to zoom in on this little bit from your article:

"If you are with a woman, and you say something sexual to her, and she rebuffs it, but she doesn't leave, who has lost power?

Think about it. Imagine a similar situation, with you as the rebuffer. You are talking to a guy who wants to convince you to invest in his multi-level marketing system. If you just put in $400 today, he will give you a system that will make you at least $1200 within the next two weeks, with minimal work. You tell him no, you know multi-level marketing, and you know it's a scam. There! He's rebuffed! Yet the two of you are still talking. He addresses your concern and sells you some more. You raise another objection. He counters your objection. You are still there, still listening.

Why are you listening to his pitch at all? Why are you a captive audience for this man? You can probably feel that the longer you stay around him, listening to his pitch, the more likely you are to, at some point, tell him, "Oh all right, I'll give it a shot."

Even though you are rebuffing him, the fact that you are still there listening to it means you are gradually leeching power over to him."

---‐----


My question is this. Why DO people stay into conversations like this. I too recently had a MLM guy trying to steamroll me and it was obvious he would never stop trying until I had to become very assertive in a socially suave way because I knew he would abuse the environment against me. Well he buzzed of despite still wanting to try, trying to make it seem like an accident when getting close lol.

Otherwise there was this friend of mine who was about to get conned to pay for an overpriced item (way overpriced), I pulled him out of the situation, told him not to argue to long with people who want to con him. Ironically he made the same mistake with the next salesman who made a huge margin there lol, this time I didnt intervene.

My question is the following. These people, women or people who are about to be doomed by MLM salesmen, why do they still give the other persoon room? Is it lack of being assertive or is it actually needing something from the other party or being in search of something?
 

Alpha13SC

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I ll give my I put here, but there are a lot of useful replies here.

The idea of letting your power away through compliment/etc is bad mindset. Giving a compliment should be a way to make the interaction man to woman. The position you're coming from actually matters more. Are you a one of many guys who s chasing? Or are you that guy who doesn't give a fuck because you are dominant, have also other girls and you're just enjoying the presence of a woman?

You could say everything to a woman, as long as you do it right. The vibe and what you communicate non verbally matters more.

I recall one time when I was talking to a girl from my social circle and said to her how I would want to roll her in my bed. Did that just to make clear my intention in a fun way. I don t care what she really was thinking, most probably it turned her on, but I didn t care so much. Later, she invited me on a movie.

A better mindset is to assume attraction and the power. And by approaching and making man to woman vibe, you re just asserting your power as a man and lead woman where you want, not throwing it away.

In that video, all the problems could be resolved through calibration. It s ok to say to a woman ILY first If you think she s also thinking as well.

Also, one thing: you miss 100% of your shots you don't take.
 

Niwoor222

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"If you are with a woman, and you say something sexual to her, and she rebuffs it, but she doesn't leave, who has lost power?
Yeah, Of course in that case not but what about if she does not leave but say to you "dude, just fuck off, can you do that please?" Who has lost power? Her? If there were people around. I am 100% sure They will laugh and say to each other "wtf? Did you see how painful was that? Poor guy. He only wanted to get laid. What a shame!. Maybe if he were a little bit more attractive, she could have given him a chance. Don't cry boy!. Do you think people will say "Oh what a shame! The guy is a king for taking action" of course not. Effort means shit for people. There are a lot of people who has done more effort to be millionair than many millionair have done but you never know those person because people only care about results. It is the human Nature dude. I dont give a fuck how much you have done to get laid, if you do not get laid you are literally a loser. Results determine your value. People dont give a fuck if you had the courage to approach the hot girl, people only care if you got the girl or not. If you got the laid, you are awsome if you didnt, you are not awsome. It is that simple!
 
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Alpha13SC

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Yeah, Of course in that case not but what about if she does not leave but say to you "dude, just fuck off, can you do that please?" Who has lost power?
The correct approach should be: too bad for her, now she doesn't have the chance to see how awesome as a man you are
 

ulrich

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My question is the following. These people, women or people who are about to be doomed by MLM salesmen, why do they still give the other persoon room? Is it lack of being assertive or is it actually needing something from the other party or being in search of something?

Not Chase, but in this case I think it’s fear of missing out.

“What if this guy is legit and I drop him?”
“What if this is actually the cheapest price I can get?”
“What if this item is so rare and I don’t find another guy selling it?”

Perhaps your friend valued the thing the salesman was selling so much that it was worth the risk he (mis)calculated in his head.
You usually only learn that lesson with enough reference points.
 

ulrich

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Yeah, Of course in that case not but what about if she does not leave but say to you "dude, just fuck off, can you do that please?" Who has lost power? Her? If there were people around. I am 100% sure They will laugh and say to each other "wtf? Did you see how painful was that? Poor guy. He only wanted to get laid. What a shame!. Maybe if he were a little bit more attractive, she could have given him a chance. Don't cry boy!. Do you think people will say "Oh what a shame! The guy is a king for taking action" of course not. Effort means shit for people. There are a lot of people who has done more effort to be millionair than many millionair have done but you never know those person because people only care about results. It is the human Nature dude. I dont give a fuck how much you have done to get laid, if you do not get laid you are literally a loser. Results determine your value. People dont give a fuck if you had the courage to approach the hot girl, people judge you by your results.

Yeah, and now all her friends thinks she is nuts and unattractive for being such an over-reactive bitch.
A woman doing that un calibrated shit is losing more “value” in that interaction.
 

DarkKnight

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@uriel haha it was a basic item he was being sold too. But you guessed right he did value it way too high and overestimated the scarcity. Thank you for your input. Still would love to hear from the big guy @Chase
 

Niwoor222

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Yeah, and now all her friends thinks she is nuts and unattractive for being such an over-reactive bitch.
A woman doing that un calibrated shit is losing more “value” in that interaction.
I don't think she necessarily has to say that in a uncalibrated way while she say it in a polite way, it is all fine for her. She won't be a bitch but a girl who has more value than the guy and the guy just didn't have enough game to pick up her. That is the frame. You can be sure that the girl will never lose her prize frame. And that is the issue. When you give your power away with a line like "I wanna marry you" you lose the prize frame. She is the one who is the prize because you wanna marry her, not her to you. See how the concept of "giving your power away" exist. If not Todd valentine werent teaching it.

And this brings me to the point of my post.
We as men can't win this. You don't wanna give your power away? Well, then you can't escalate and you won't get the laid because escalation per se gives the power away. Women always win and She win because We have to make the first step, there is no way to know with 100% of certainty that she will acept or reject the escalation. We have to dare. Women ultimately decide if acept your sexual intent or reject it. She is the goalkeeper. We can only cross the fingers that we did a good job in the attraction before we do escalation
 
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Niwoor222

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Once in a blue moon a guy comes around pushing his faulty mental model despite more experienced people telling him otherwise.
This not my mental model. This not any creation of mine. This is not a revolutionary method. This is old, from Swingcat to now. I just want it to post it here through my own experience of it and my words
 

Lover

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@Niwoor222 dude! You're greatly over thinking this and if your friends value you less because you've been rejected by some girl you've got shit friends... I've been rejected in front of my friends, they build me up, they're confused why she's let go such a cool dude. My friends have been rejected in front of me, I don't see them as less, I'll build them up! They had the ball's to go for what they want.

It's all about how you view things. If you're un phased by the rejection you look cool. My friends thought I got a girl's number because I walked away so confidently, I had to tell them that she wasn't interested, I could have lied and they'd have never known but who would I be fooling?

We're not bothered by rejection, we laugh it off. Handle rejection well and you look cool to everyone who knows. Even with your heavy view on value, you can gain value in a loss if you handle it well enough. You might even turn her perception of you around. Who is this confident dude who's not bothered that I rejected him? Maybe I've assessed him wrong?!?
This whole thread should have closed after this post.
 

Niwoor222

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This whole thread should have closed after this post.
Bro, you can ignore the post but I would like to know what you believe differently. That would be awsome. Tell me what part of what I said you think is false. I won't argue with you if now I know you have a different perspective but let me know. Grab something you disagree and say this is false. I respect opinions.
 
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Lover

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Bro, you can ignore the post but I would like to know what you believe differently
I agree with what has already been said by other guys. I have nothing more to add.

The point of my post is that you got the clarification you were searching for. But it seems like you weren't really looking for that since you hold on so tight to your beliefs.

You: "You lose value if you get rejected"

Other: Okay, but it doesn't matter as long as your internal frame is to your advantage

You: "But it's not the objective truth"

This is what I am seeing right now, and I assume it's the same for others. I hope you see and understand things from our end.

Good luck on your journey.
 

ulrich

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You: "You lose value if you get rejected"

Other: Okay, but it doesn't matter as long as your internal frame is to your advantage

You: "But it's not the objective truth"

I think @Niwoor222 thinks that “value” is like a video game scoreboard with a glowing number and everybody can see objectively if you are winning or losing points… and there is a competition over who has the more points… and all guys and girls are competing.

He doesn’t realize that “value assessing” is extremely subjective and much more dependent on nonverbal impressions and mental associations than in any objective reality.
(ie. you can be a 5 for a fat bitch who insta-rejects you and a 10 for the hottie just next to her)
 

Niwoor222

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I think @Niwoor222 thinks that “value” is like a video game scoreboard with a glowing number and everybody can see objectively if you are winning or losing points… and there is a competition over who has the more points… and all guys and girls are competing.
Yes I see it in that way
you can be a 5 for a fat bitch who insta-rejects you and a 10 for the hottie just next to her
In my opinion that is 98% false and have little experiences in my life that support that, honestly. But again, that is me. I respect your opinion and your belief.
 

ulrich

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In my opinion that is 98% false and have little experiences in my life that support that, honestly. But again, that is me. I respect your opinion and your belief.

Well, your opinion doesn’t match our collective experience… so what is going to be?

a) Stick out to your beliefs despite multiple experienced seducers telling you they are incorrect
b) Considering the possibility that your conclusions might lack important data/experience
 

Regal Tiger

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My question is this. Why DO people stay into conversations like this. I too recently had a MLM guy trying to steamroll me and it was obvious he would never stop trying until I had to become very assertive in a socially suave way because I knew he would abuse the environment against me. Well he buzzed of despite still wanting to try, trying to make it seem like an accident when getting close lol.

Otherwise there was this friend of mine who was about to get conned to pay for an overpriced item (way overpriced), I pulled him out of the situation, told him not to argue to long with people who want to con him. Ironically he made the same mistake with the next salesman who made a huge margin there lol, this time I didnt intervene.

My question is the following. These people, women or people who are about to be doomed by MLM salesmen, why do they still give the other persoon room? Is it lack of being assertive or is it actually needing something from the other party or being in search of something?
I did it once just a few weeks ago. A woman approached me and asked me a few questions about education is important (I don't think it is actually, school is a joke) and something else about little girls needing to go to school which I mentioned I don't like because it's biased for girls only and not all children.

After making a joke about how I wasn't in her target market she said something and I agreed to let her pitch me.


I did this because
A) I was bored and annoyed at a failed daygaming day, so I thought fuck it, got nothing else to do
B) I wanted to watch her pitch and critique it/see if I could use parts of it myself for anything
 
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