What do moaners and incels have in common?

[DoWhatWorks]

They would get laid if they *actually* left their house ... *ba dum tss*

Lol terrible joke but that was done to get your attention to something annoyingly popping up on this forum... COMPLAINING

Recently we've seen the same pathetic themes come up again again and again. So I'm making this post to link to when I see the same bs feeling sorry for yourself thread.

I want this to be useful so I'll actually break down the most common things we're seeing and how to overcome them. Let's keep this forum solution focused

Now the reason this annoys me so much is once upon a time I was struggling and not getting the results I wanted. I never made 1 post. Not 1 comment. Not 1 "poor me". None of that shit. I tell what you what did happen though? Some women picked up on my hint of negativity and it effected my results until I made it through the other side.

So this thread is all about stopping yourself from being a moaner, incel, complainer and become that zen guy who's getting laid left and right and can't figure out what all the fuss is about.

In no particular order let's address common moaning themes...

1. Women's standards are too high

Reality: Vast majority of women have well adjusted "realistic standards". Furthermore women's many of women's standards are intangible e.g. confidence, posture, ability to invoke emotion, social skills. All of which are learnt and not reliant on genetics. Men are arguably far shallower because if she's not a certain looks thresholds we're not interested.

Solution(s):

• Come off online dating apps (they're a bubble)
• Stop watching red pill, black pill content. Yes some of it's funny and yes it's nice to have male focused media vs mainstream but it can do more harm than good
• Get laid. Honestly focus more on getting laid and temporarily drop your standards if you have to. Do you think winners are complaining? No they're winning so get to work. I've noticed I've only empathised with this when I've been on a down turn... When getting laid? Really couldn't care
• Read this: Girls: Silly and Cute

2. Women only want [XYZ]

Reality: There are many variables and different women want different things. So focus on women who like what you can provide. For example trying to read poems to a club rat girl isn't going to work but having the same "look" as her favorite artist and pushing/pull will. At the same time showing "designer brands" to a artsy girl will get you laughed at.

Solution(s):

• Understand the different archetypes
• Find your niche/tribe
• Get yourselves having fun around women asap. Nightgame is great for this. Even if it's friendly you'll get this blackhole thinking out your head
• Pay close attention to people when out walking in your day to day life. You'll see many girls who are "hotter" than their boyfriends.
• Understand what women actually want > 1) What Women Want & 2) Genuine Man

3. I can't get laid because of [XYZ]

Reality: The world does not owe you any understanding. You have a problem and you can blame the world and keep getting poor results or perform "smart" work.

Solution(s):

• I'll just say it straight for a lot of you you can't get laid because: 1. fundamentals and/or 2. social skills are terrible or 3. your standards are too high
• Be honest with yourself to figure out which of the 3 it is. Put the ego aside share your outfit, interactions/reports and the forum will help you.

4. I hate women

Reality: You adore women but they aren't giving you what you want so it's easier to auto-reject and say you hate them vs figure it out

Solution(s):

• Empathize with girl life
• Get laid more (again temporarily drop standards if you have to)
• Read and understand this: What Women Want

5. I was never popular at school and want to become Instagram famous

Reality: Being "famous" is more troublesome than it's worth ESPECIALLY for a competent seducer. I've lost girls due to being too flashy with social media stories in the past

Solution(s):

• Meditate and work out if your need to be "Instagram famous" is something you want or something you've just adopted from wider society
• Fill in your need to be sociable (which is natural) by hanging out with like minded people who you genuinely like through shared hobbies
• Build a cool instagram, get a whole lot of validation then realize it's hollow/fickle and go full circle
• Read this and this

6. What's the perfect way to do [XYZ]

Reality: You'll always get more no's than yes'. Stop overthinking and tweak as you go. Should be focused on 1. Getting a process that works 2. Increasing the success rate of that process

Solution(s):

• Pick an avenue of game I.E : Daygame, Nightgame, Social Circle or Online and hit hard until you master it before trying something new
• Read the forum classics. Skills Text Guide, Teevster Sexual Prizing

Onwards & Upwards x

 

[topcat]

gold

 

[trashKENNUT]

Unpopular Opinion.

I'm just saying that we are talking to children/wife/women/female,

but they are in adult human male form.
And what we did, we bashing them, doesn't seems to work. There's a growing number of them. Like a lot. Like a lot. Even the "normal ones".

My thing is I hope that more seniors members of Girlschase can take what they (this people) can see outside the tangible world, to be use as examples that can help reflect their inner problems.

Our minds needs to "see" before it can go.

z@c+

High level members here have changed a lot in how they approach problems. I really really like it. There's so much more nuance, more context. More secrets revealed.

Which ultimately benefits everyone.

 

[StrayDog]

gold

what topcat said x2

 

[bigt]

This just sounds like a complete massive cope.

What about the guy that doesn't have a symmetric or good looking face? What about the guy that has a ugly face and is average height? How will these guys get laid?

People always talk about fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals. But no one ever goes into definition what fundamentals actually is. It's just this thing that we can supposedly work on and girls will be attracted to us.

Everyone always looks down on fame. A guy that spends his time to get famous and actually makes it, will have a wayyyyyyyyyy easier time getting laid than some uber good looking dude that no one has ever herd of.

You really think the ultra good looking adonis non-famous college jock could pull more girls than a 60 year old Paul Mccartney? or a 60 year old Jack Nicholson??

Please admit that if you are a guy with an ugly face and average height, it will make more sense to focus one's efforts on becoming famous that spending time learning game

 

[StrayDog]

Please admit that if you are a guy with an ugly face and average height, it will make more sense to focus one's efforts on becoming famous that spending time learning game

Or start by lowering your standards and go from there

 

[topcat]

This just sounds like a complete massive cope.

What about the guy that doesn't have a symmetric or good looking face? What about the guy that has a ugly face and is average height? How will these guys get laid?

People always talk about fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals. But no one ever goes into definition what fundamentals actually is. It's just this thing that we can supposedly work on and girls will be attracted to us.

Everyone always looks down on fame. A guy that spends his time to get famous and actually makes it, will have a wayyyyyyyyyy easier time getting laid than some uber good looking dude that no one has ever herd of.

You really think the ultra good looking adonis non-famous college jock could pull more girls than a 60 year old Paul Mccartney? or a 60 year old Jack Nicholson??

Please admit that if you are a guy with an ugly face and average height, it will make more sense to focus one's efforts on becoming famous that spending time learning game

loool apparently tweaking your fundamentals is harder than getting famous…

you don’t want girls bro you want sympathy..

honestly i’m starting to think you complainers are just closeted gays who come in here cruising for a real man to console you.

fuck off..

 

[Beam]

This just sounds like a complete massive cope.

What about the guy that doesn't have a symmetric or good looking face? What about the guy that has a ugly face and is average height? How will these guys get laid?

People always talk about fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals. But no one ever goes into definition what fundamentals actually is. It's just this thing that we can supposedly work on and girls will be attracted to us.

Everyone always looks down on fame. A guy that spends his time to get famous and actually makes it, will have a wayyyyyyyyyy easier time getting laid than some uber good looking dude that no one has ever herd of.

You really think the ultra good looking adonis non-famous college jock could pull more girls than a 60 year old Paul Mccartney? or a 60 year old Jack Nicholson??

Please admit that if you are a guy with an ugly face and average height, it will make more sense to focus one's efforts on becoming famous that spending time learning game

1. As others have mentioned, it is waaaay harder to become famous than it is to learn game to get laid.
2. Even if you do somehow become famous and start getting more attention and opportunities, if you haven't learned game you'll probably still fuck it up with the really hot ones, getting a bunch of easy sex from 6s instead. And those fuck ups may go public and harm your reputation/put you on a fast track to a sexual assault allegation, like what happened here. I guarantee you that Paul McCartney and Jack Nicholson don't just get laid because they are famous, but because they are extremely charismatic through years and years of socializing with women and people in general. You can fast track your way to this by also dedicating time specifically to fundamentals and game.

By all means work on getting really, really good at something else as well that can possibly make you famous/open up more opportunities with women in the future, but don't rely on it because there are no guarantees. The closest guarantee you will ever get to being able to sleep with hotties is improving your fundamentals and learning game.

 

[Will_V]

Great post @DoWhatWorks!

Something a bit more abstract that I think goes right over the heads of the incels/moaners is the concept of a man 'on his way up'.

In their world, there only exists the 'haves' and the 'have nots'. Either a guy is on top of the world, famous and loaded, or he's a loser who gets no pussy.

But the reality is that more attractive than either of those is the man 'on his way up'. This is a guy with the soul of a king who was born a peasant. A guy who might be broke and struggling, but acts like it's only a matter of time before he has everything he wants. Women can sniff these out from a mile away, in fact everything about them is designed to find these guys and attach themselves.

Why? Because the way that a woman makes herself irreplaceable is by being part of that man's journey to the top, supporting him. When he gets to the top, she is part of a unique story that could only really happen once. All the other girls he gets would only be hangers on, whereas she would be the one who supported him even when he was nothing. Every girl knows this, which is why she goes around trying to find a man with this spark so she can write this story with him.

Because if she just goes to a rich, top X% guy and offers herself, what can she do for him besides wet his cock? And how is that different from all the other girls that he could get?

She wants to put a man in debt to her, and hope that his ethics don't allow him to kick her out at the end. And for many, many guys, this works a treat.

So the moaners and incels are almost right. There are winners and losers, and women go for the winners and shun the losers. But there are also guys in transition between losing and winning, and like a stock that's on its way up, this is the most valuable thing for a woman, and they all want to be the first to spot it and invest in it.

But for a lot of guys, the world is not dynamic. They cannot see this reality because they consider being a winner or a loser to be a permanent part of someone's identity. Because they think they have tried, and the result was failure, mentally they consider the world to be a rigid set of pigeon holes different people get put into and cannot get out.

Essentially this is a failure of adaptation, which is nature's most mortal of sins.

 

[DoWhatWorks]

loool apparently tweaking your fundamentals is harder than getting famous…

you don’t want girls bro you want sympathy..

honestly i’m starting to think you complainers are just closeted gays who come in here cruising for a real man to console you.

fuck off..

Looool @topcat applying some serious pressure, hahaha let the poor guys live

Great post @DoWhatWorks!

Something a bit more abstract that I think goes right over the heads of the incels/moaners is the concept of a man 'on his way up'.

In their world, there only exists the 'haves' and the 'have nots'. Either a guy is on top of the world, famous and loaded, or he's a loser who gets no pussy.

But the reality is that more attractive than either of those is the man 'on his way up'. This is a guy with the soul of a king who was born a peasant. A guy who might be broke and struggling, but acts like it's only a matter of time before he has everything he wants. Women can sniff these out from a mile away, in fact everything about them is designed to find these guys and attach themselves.

Why? Because the way that a woman makes herself irreplaceable is by being part of that man's journey to the top, supporting him. When he gets to the top, she is part of a unique story that could only really happen once. All the other girls he gets would only be hangers on, whereas she would be the one who supported him even when he was nothing. Every girl knows this, which is why she goes around trying to find a man with this spark so she can write this story with him.

Because if she just goes to a rich, top X% guy and offers herself, what can she do for him besides wet his cock? And how is that different from all the other girls that he could get?

She wants to put a man in debt to her, and hope that his ethics don't allow him to kick her out at the end. And for many, many guys, this works a treat.

So the moaners and incels are almost right. There are winners and losers, and women go for the winners and shun the losers. But there are also guys in transition between losing and winning, and like a stock that's on its way up, this is the most valuable thing for a woman, and they all want to be the first to spot it and invest in it.

But for a lot of guys, the world is not dynamic. They cannot see this reality because they consider being a winner or a loser to be a permanent part of someone's identity. Because they think they have tried, and the result was failure, mentally they consider the world to be a rigid set of pigeon holes different people get put into and cannot get out.

Essentially this is a failure of adaptation, which is nature's most mortal of sins.

Thanks @Will_V and excellent contribution.

The young man with potential is such an underrated angle & something a lot of naturals use without realising. It’s how you compete with the established... As a girl you need to get DiCaprio before his Titanic break as if you go for him now... He’ll literally jump ship when you turn 25 lol.

@bigt you do realise why a lot of these famous people are so well liked is because of their fundamentals not just their status right?

Tom Cruise & Sylvester are tiny but have impeccable posture/ body language. Same with Cylian Murphy.

You can get the same effect as a “normal” person by working on your looks.

Check this link on before and after haircuts: https://www.demilked.com/before-after-haircut-transformations/

These guys are unrecognisable after just a haircut they’ve gone from “homeless” to “handsome”. Now layer on gym, clothes, body language, voice tonality and you get this “Adonis” character that all you red pill guys masturbate over...

 

[bigt]

Looool @topcat applying some serious pressure, hahaha let the poor guys live




Thanks @Will_V and excellent contribution.

The young man with potential is such an underrated angle & something a lot of naturals use without realising. It’s how you compete with the established... As a girl you need to get DiCaprio before his Titanic break as if you go for him now... He’ll literally jump ship when you turn 25 lol.

@bigt you do realise why a lot of these famous people are so well liked is because of their fundamentals not just their status right?

Tom Cruise & Sylvester are tiny but have impeccable posture/ body language. Same with Cylian Murphy.

You can get the same effect as a “normal” person by working on your looks.

Check this link on before and after haircuts: https://www.demilked.com/before-after-haircut-transformations/

These guys are unrecognisable after just a haircut they’ve gone from “homeless” to “handsome”. Now layer on gym, clothes, body language, voice tonality and you get this “Adonis” character that all you red pill guys masturbate over...

People going on and on about fundamentals, fundamentals. What about a guy with average height, older so in his late 30s and a below average face. No facial symmetry and bald. How will he get an average girl?? He wouldn't be able to. An average woman has so many sexual options and access to a plethora of more attractive men. The average height guy with no facial symmetry can learn all the game he wants, but he will still be completely ffed.

 

[Don Giovanni]

People going on and on about fundamentals, fundamentals. What about a guy with average height, older so in his late 30s and a below average face. No facial symmetry and bald. How will he get an average girl?? He wouldn't be able to. An average woman has so many sexual options and access to a plethora of more attractive men. The average height guy with no facial symmetry can learn all the game he wants, but he will still be completely ffed.

Solution(s):

• Come off online dating apps (they're a bubble)
• Stop watching red pill, black pill content. Yes some of it's funny and yes it's nice to have male focused media vs mainstream but it can do more harm than good
• Get laid. Honestly focus more on getting laid and temporarily drop your standards if you have to. Do you think winners are complaining? No they're winning so get to work. I've noticed I've only empathised with this when I've been on a down turn... When getting laid? Really couldn't care
• Read this: Girls: Silly and Cute

 

[DoWhatWorks]

@bigt I’m glad you’re replying because there’ll be guys thinking like you but not saying it out loud.

Again I genuinely want to help BUT you have to be ready to receive it. Let’s break it down:

I

What about a guy with average height,

Average height for guy in the UK is 5’10. Average height of a girl is 5’5. This means if said average man approaches in real life he’ll meet the heights threshold for the vast majority of women.

I know shorter than average guys who love 6ft+ Girls (& consistently get it) but I’ll leave that for now.

No facial symmetry and bald.

This facial symmetry is just BS. Very few people are perfectly symmetrical. Read Warped Mindless post on “you don’t have to be perfect”

If said average man can grow facial hair I would encourage him to do that. Most balding guys can because one of the reasons they bald quicker is higher testosterone levels. He can go for the masculine Jason Statham look.

Even if he doesn’t grow facial hair our very own skills is bald with no facial hear and cleans up. What I will say is if you’re bald being in shape is compulsory.

I’ll admit if you have a nice head of hair, you can get away with not having a top tier physique. Is what it is.

How will he get an average girl?? He wouldn't be able to.

*Yawn* factually incorrect. Look at my signature and choose a guide

An average woman has so many sexual options and access to a plethora of more attractive men.

They don’t. Don’t be deceived by thirsty Instagram comments those aren’t legit “options” as she finds them unattractive.

Women may have options for sex from an attractive man and this may keep them happy for a small amount of time but eventually they want an attractive man to keep.

This is different to us men, as we’re wired differently but an average girl’s dating life is far from easy.

 

[POB]

What about a guy with average height, older so in his late 30s and a below average face. No facial symmetry and bald.

You know you are describing Vin diesel right?

 

[Lover]

3. I can't get laid because of [XYZ]

Reality: The world does not owe you any understanding. You have a problem and you can blame the world and keep getting poor results or perform "smart" work.

Solution(s):

• I'll just say it straight for a lot of you you can't get laid because: 1. fundamentals and/or 2. social skills are terrible or 3. your standards are too high
• Be honest with yourself to figure out which of the 3 it is. Put the ego aside share your outfit, interactions/reports and the forum will help you

The first article that comes to my mind reading this point

https://www.girlschase.com/content/i-cant-get-girls-because-girls-only-want-blank

 

[Chase]

You know you are describing Vin diesel right?

"He doesn't count because he developed his charisma and his voice and he put on some muscle and has great posture and eye contact and he's learned to be really smooth with girls."

...

One of the big things that is happening with guys who moan and whine and complain is they have had people all their lives telling them, "Do X, and women will want you!" so they do X and no women want them. But they've had it repeated to them so many times that they feel certain that if they just do X (be a good guy, do well in school, have a good job, put yourself out there, wait until the right girl comes along, etc.), it is SUPPOSED to work.

Then when it doesn't work, they end up here, where we are telling them, "You know all that crap people told you your whole life was supposed to work... but you kept doing it, and it never worked? That's 'cause it doesn't work, brah. Here's what to do instead."

And their minds just reject it: "No! It can't be! I built my whole life around doing that stuff! You're really going to tell me I have to do some completely different stuff, when I am SO INVESTED in all this other stuff, when I have done all the right things? I am OWED IT! Life owes it to me! I did what I was supposed to do!"

So you just get this tidal wave of cognitive dissonance cascading out of them.

Because to them it feels like you are telling them, "All right, buddy. You did all the stuff the world said you were supposed to do to get the goodies. But haha! Here's the trick: now you've got to do a bunch MORE stuff if you want the goodies! Now get at it!"

So they resent you for it. It feels like you're the one who bait-and-switched them, even though you never told them all that other crap, and you're just trying to set them free.

At least if they hang out in the mainstream, or the red pill, the folks there will tell them, "Well I don't know why you don't get girls, pal. You're doing all the right stuff. You SHOULD have women. I don't know why it isn't working. It should work!"

The mainstream will tell them, "Just keep doing it. Sooner or later it'll work."

The red pill will tell them, "It's the fault of those women, friend. They're the reason why it isn't working. Women nowadays are just too SPOILED; they can't RECOGNIZE a guy who's done all the right stuff and deserves their love -- a guy like you."

Then they come here and we're not going to bullshit them like the MSM or the red pill guys.

For some guys, the feeling is, "Finally! I finally see what I have to do to get what I want!"

For a lot of guys the feeling is more, "What? You're telling me I have to do MORE stuff to get what I want? But I already did everything I was supposed to do! It's not fair at all!"

The guys who get the most out of seduction are the ones who've already made their peace with the fact that the crap the mainstream told them they needed to do does not work well at all, and rather than looking for someone to tell them it will be okay if they just stick with it, or someone to circle jerk them like the red pill does, they are ready for actionable steps to take to go and actually get what it is they want.

Other guys may simply not be ready yet for a place like this when they find it.

They might need to spend more time hanging around the MSM or the red pill sites first, until they get fed up enough with not having what they want that they switch to that mindset where they are just saying, "All right, let me have it. Just give me all the answers. I'm ready to go out there and do it."

You know the old saying... when the student is ready, the master will appear.

With a community like this, where anyone can just drift in and start poking around or reading, sometimes students stumble in before they are ready.

Chase

 

[POB]

"He doesn't count because he developed his charisma and his voice and he put on some muscle and has great posture and eye contact and he's learned to be really smooth with girls."

Apparently he could use some of the Girlschase's tips

 

[Whiteheart]

"He doesn't count because he developed his charisma and his voice and he put on some muscle and has great posture and eye contact and he's learned to be really smooth with girls."

...

One of the big things that is happening with guys who moan and whine and complain is they have had people all their lives telling them, "Do X, and women will want you!" so they do X and no women want them. But they've had it repeated to them so many times that they feel certain that if they just do X (be a good guy, do well in school, have a good job, put yourself out there, wait until the right girl comes along, etc.), it is SUPPOSED to work.

Then when it doesn't work, they end up here, where we are telling them, "You know all that crap people told you your whole life was supposed to work... but you kept doing it, and it never worked? That's 'cause it doesn't work, brah. Here's what to do instead."

And their minds just reject it: "No! It can't be! I built my whole life around doing that stuff! You're really going to tell me I have to do some completely different stuff, when I am SO INVESTED in all this other stuff, when I have done all the right things? I am OWED IT! Life owes it to me! I did what I was supposed to do!"

So you just get this tidal wave of cognitive dissonance cascading out of them.

Because to them it feels like you are telling them, "All right, buddy. You did all the stuff the world said you were supposed to do to get the goodies. But haha! Here's the trick: now you've got to do a bunch MORE stuff if you want the goodies! Now get at it!"

So they resent you for it. It feels like you're the one who bait-and-switched them, even though you never told them all that other crap, and you're just trying to set them free.

At least if they hang out in the mainstream, or the red pill, the folks there will tell them, "Well I don't know why you don't get girls, pal. You're doing all the right stuff. You SHOULD have women. I don't know why it isn't working. It should work!"

The mainstream will tell them, "Just keep doing it. Sooner or later it'll work."

The red pill will tell them, "It's the fault of those women, friend. They're the reason why it isn't working. Women nowadays are just too SPOILED; they can't RECOGNIZE a guy who's done all the right stuff and deserves their love -- a guy like you."

Then they come here and we're not going to bullshit them like the MSM or the red pill guys.

For some guys, the feeling is, "Finally! I finally see what I have to do to get what I want!"

For a lot of guys the feeling is more, "What? You're telling me I have to do MORE stuff to get what I want? But I already did everything I was supposed to do! It's not fair at all!"

The guys who get the most out of seduction are the ones who've already made their peace with the fact that the crap the mainstream told them they needed to do does not work well at all, and rather than looking for someone to tell them it will be okay if they just stick with it, or someone to circle jerk them like the red pill does, they are ready for actionable steps to take to go and actually get what it is they want.

Other guys may simply not be ready yet for a place like this when they find it.

They might need to spend more time hanging around the MSM or the red pill sites first, until they get fed up enough with not having what they want that they switch to that mindset where they are just saying, "All right, let me have it. Just give me all the answers. I'm ready to go out there and do it."

You know the old saying... when the student is ready, the master will appear.

With a community like this, where anyone can just drift in and start poking around or reading, sometimes students stumble in before they are ready.

Chase

@Chase some guys did everything seduction teaches like focusing on development of masculine traits, relatable personality, etc. and still it didn’t work. I don’t say these things seduction teaches us aren’t true. But simply, some men (like I) were born undesirable just like someone was born sick and there is not cure for that. We don’t use anymore mainstream, red pill (whatever color pill) advices but true, objective, scientific things like here on Girls Ghase or similar sites. Still it works for other guys but not us.

Simply game can’t work good if fundamentals and vibe are bad and because we were born undesirable we can’t have good fundamentals and vibe. For example, on paper everything with my generally fundamentals is fine i.e. how seduction teach us but girls are intentionally focused on finding things that don’t like in me. I have super high masculine traits and warm personality and besides attention girls want nothing from me and majority of girls not even that.

Then some of those guys came here, get advice just learn the game, you aren’t matter and she will be yours. Then they see some other man applying similar advices/or not even that and get women without much effort while they can’t even after hundreds of attempts and get really upset about women and their life. Then return here, get advice to improve game and if they are dedicated waste months or years on improving, and after dozens of rejections, ghostings, flakes or other forms of humiliation lose motivation for anything while normal guys, i.e. guys who were born with predisposition to be likable to women criticise us we didn’t try enough or that we are autistics and don’t see reality as it is.

Realize @Chase some men were born with very low or no potential to be liked by women and have much harder task or impossible task in getting women. Just like someone was born sick, deaf, retarded, etc.

 

[DoWhatWorks]

@Chase some guys did everything seduction teaches like focusing on development of masculine traits, relatable personality, etc. and still it didn’t work. I don’t say these things seduction teaches us aren’t true. But simply, some men (like I) were born undesirable just like someone was born sick and there is not cure for that. We don’t use anymore mainstream, red pill (whatever color pill) advices but true, objective, scientific things like here on Girls Ghase or similar sites. Still it works for other guys but not us.

Simply game can’t work good if fundamentals and vibe are bad and because we were born undesirable we can’t have good fundamentals and vibe. For example, on paper everything with my generally fundamentals is fine i.e. how seduction teach us but girls are intentionally focused on finding things that don’t like in me. I have super high masculine traits and warm personality and besides attention girls want nothing from me and majority of girls not even that.

Then some of those guys came here, get advice just learn the game, you aren’t matter and she will be yours. Then they see some other man applying similar advices/or not even that and get women without much effort while they can’t even after hundreds of attempts and get really upset about women and their life. Then return here, get advice to improve game and if they are dedicated waste months or years on improving, and after dozens of rejections, ghostings, flakes or other forms of humiliation lose motivation for anything while normal guys, i.e. guys who were born with predisposition to be likable to women criticise us we didn’t try enough or that we are autistics and don’t see reality as it is.

Realize @Chase some men were born with very low or no potential to be liked by women and have much harder task or impossible task in getting women. Just like someone was born sick, deaf, retarded, etc.

I give up lol... I always used to wonder why the highest level guys don't even bother replying to these comments...

This will be my last reply on this thread.

Simply game can’t work good if fundamentals and vibe are bad

100% correct

we were born undesirable we can’t have good fundamentals and vibe

This is your problem. Respectfully maybe you should seek out therapy. Thinking you're "undesirable" isn't normal...

 

[Chase]

@Blackheart,

But simply, some men (like I) were born undesirable just like someone was born sick and there is not cure for that.

...

Realize @Chase some men were born with very low or no potential to be liked by women and have much harder task or impossible task in getting women. Just like someone was born sick, deaf, retarded, etc.

I have been in this space a long time. I used to teach in-field. I took three or four dozen students out across a five-year period.

Some of them were cool dudes, some good-looking, some tall.

However I have also had all manner of short, weird, fat, unattractive guys come out on in-fields. I have had guys show up who talked about how women did not want them and they were completely invisible to women. Some of those guys I helped leave with girls that night.

There is a kind of blindness that some (a lot?) of men have to socializing that is hard to put a point on. Sometimes it is simple inexperience, and if they do it for a while they learn to pick up on the rules and get good. Sometimes it is a brain thing, like with autistic guys, where they simply are not able to learn to socialize properly. Whether it is inexperience or some sort of mental thing, when you as an experienced guy go out with them and can serve as a "seeing eye dog" for them, it is unfailingly easy to find women who are actually receptive to them, then help them along so they are getting somewhere in the interaction with the girl and she is actually wanting them to move it forward.

After working with all the guys in-field I have, and hearing all these things about how undesirable they were, then having them in these conversations a short while later with girls who were clearly into them, sometimes leaving the venue with them, you will never be able to convince me that "Well, those guys may have THOUGHT they were undesirable... but I REALLY am!"

Are you less attractive than the short, creepy dude with a beer belly and oily skin and old clothes and a weird fedora I took out a few times, among a group of other dudes? That guy made my skin crawl, and I have to assume he had the same effect on girls as well, but he wasn't even a beginner... he actually got laid, at least sometimes (don't ask me how, or with what types of women -- I also did not work with him directly... my partner did, thankfully).

Maybe you are less attractive than the very heavyset 49-year-old recently-divorced Indian man with a bushy silver mustache and aggressive male pattern baldness and a gigantic facial mole I took out in San Francisco? We got that guy into a great conversation with a 20-something girl (who was admittedly a bit chubby, but hey... I didn't have a lot to work with there) who was obviously into him. This guy hadn't spoken to a woman in a romantic setting other than his wife in decades. After that girl was flirting with him and touching her hair and getting all interested, he stormed back and said this wasn't something he wanted to do and it wasn't a lifestyle that he wanted and demanded a refund. Can't win 'em all, I guess...

How about the quiet, withdrawn portly young bald Indian programmer who was the first ever student I took out? He was a virgin who'd never approached a woman before and said he was completely invisible to women. I had him do a series of approaches, and the last one I had him do he pulled from the club, and we all went to a diner together where I helped him seed the pull home to his place. He took her home and hit LMR (super easy to overcome LMR, if he knew what he was doing... but cut the guy some slack, it was his first night out), but was ecstatic nevertheless.

I took out a Sikh, in a turban, with a big bushy beard, who had a mountain of social anxiety, in the middle of an American metropolis, and I got him into conversations with American white girls, at least one of whom was genuinely and visibly attracted to him.

Now.

I am not saying "You can do it on your own" -- maybe you can't. I have definitely seen guys over the years who have done 5,000 or 10,000 approaches and laid only a handful of girls.

I think it takes a very special kind of guy to get GOOD with girls totally on his own.

I couldn't do it. I took multiple bootcamps, with multiple coaches, and sought out a number of talented pick up artists and naturals to (in essence) apprentice myself to. If you told me "Just read some stuff online and then go do it yourself and get good" I don't know how far I'd have gotten. Probably not that far.

But the whole "well it's just impossible for me because I was just born disqualified" is a cop out. I have never yet found a man it is true with, and unless you look like the love child of Quasimodo and the Phantom of the Opera, plus you are five feet tall, and a total creepy weirdo, I guarantee you I have worked with students shorter, uglier, and creepier than you are, and gotten them women.

A lot of times for the guys who've tried everything and nothing is working the best thing to tell the guy is "GET A COACH", preferably an in-field coach, because obviously the guy is not going to figure it out himself, and reading more stuff or watching more videos won't help.

If you can't afford a coach, or you can't find one in your area, look for guys around you who are good with women and ingratiate yourself to them. Hang around them, watch what they do, and adopt their methods and mannerisms.

Too many guys I think have this "I've gotta do it all on my own, just with some reading and watching, but otherwise on my own" mentality, but unless you are a very special guy with pre-built social savvy or another real advantage or two you are going to struggle unless you have flesh-and-blood role models to observe, or someone who can train you and focus you on the stuff that is completely invisible to you but glaringly obvious to him once he sees you in action.

Chase