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What Is Your Biggest Fear Or Frustration With Pickup?

Troy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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DrexelScott said:
Are you guys all mass-approaching? There is such an easier way to learn. It still takes a lot of time and effort but at least it's spent in the right direction, IMO mass-approaching or "grinding" is usually just spinning your wheels.

I certainly agree with Drexel. Doing hundreds of mass cold approach is just spinning your own wheels. Ill explain why I think so later.

Troy
 

Smith

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Are you guys all mass-approaching? There is such an easier way to learn. It still takes a lot of time and effort but at least it's spent in the right direction, IMO mass-approaching or "grinding" is usually just spinning your wheels.

Please do share. I had been "mass-approaching" in the last couple of months in a big metropolitan city and I found it really is just you playing the numbers game. Now my uni starts and I don't really have time for that anymore. I'll still talk to girls when I go to the supermarket or when I see them, but I still feel like I'm going to lose the momentum I had during the holiday. My uni town is also not very big.
 

BarryS1

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DrexelScott said:
The difference probably comes down to whether you enjoy talking to other people or not. Like if you're just trying to run through a process to get to a specific destination, yeah, it's probably not going to be that fun. Also, I still don't understand why guys spend so much time cold-approaching. Women give off certain signals when they're looking for a new mate. Just recognize those and talk to the girls. I've probably done fewer than 30 real cold-approaches in my life.

That's pretty much it. While socializing, most of the time I talk to people to make me look good in front my targets. Even when doing hobbies I enjoy in a social environment, I always have to remind myself to constantly talk to people for creating an impression. I've never been the pro-social type of person and maybe it got too exhausting. Thank you Drexel, this has given me something to think about because most of my results have been from mass approaching.

I'm always trying to make things more efficient, I'll give a look at the articles Franco mentioned.
 

Big Daddy

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Hey Drexel,

I'm a little bit late, but hopefully I can help you somehow. My biggest fear is just plain approaching girls.

You see, I've been able to apply many things that I learned here passively - when I happen to get a chance with a girl, I know more or less how to proceed. Being the shit on seducing woman is still one of my top 3-5 goals, but I'm so emotionally invested in two other big ass goals that I've been postponing the "getting better with woman thing" for a couple of years (I found GC way back in the time. I'm probably one of the earliest readers).

I've been able to do the very least minimum acceptable for a man, otherwise I'd still be a virgin at 21 if wasn't for you guys. (Still, I'm in a very long sex drought right now.)

I'm certain that this is because I'm not putting the effort, but I'm so focused on succeed at other things right now that I'd like to think that's OK for now. Actually, now that I'm writing this post, I realized that I probably been like this during these years, then thought "but I'm about to accomplish this goal, then I'll be free to go there and slay some pussy!" and I never quite accomplish those goals. Something always gets in the way and I have to postpone them for a couple of months.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm making excuses for myself, or if it isn't possible to focus on 3 big goals at a time... But getting out and trying to pick up some pussy really seems like too much work for me now. I read a post by Hector the other day where he describes how one "should" feel if he wants to master this: "you have to be obsessed, reading the forums all the time, seeing others have success and have this huge drive to succeed too." And I TOTALLY get it. Because that's exactly how I feel with particularly one of my goals. I'm like this with seduction too, but it's inconsistent.

So, there you have it; But given all of this, something that you said grabbed my attention like a pair of titties walking by a snowy day on a fairly populated city. I'll detail it down below while I mention an article Franco linked, please keep reading.

Franco said:
Along the lines of what Drexel is telling you guys, here are some articles that will help you greatly with this information if you haven't checked them out already:


- Franco

Out of these articles, the only one that I haven't read to this date was "When Women Want You To Say Hi." Chase goes to describe obvious signs to the experienced seducer that women want to be taken as lovers. I though you had to approach dozens of women before you started recognizing these patterns?

How did you manage to build all that expertise with such low amount of cold-approach? I mean, you have to start from somewhere before you can identify those, don't you? Chase makes it look like it's easy to find woman who'd be DTF on the streets. That would be awesome considering my situation! Anyways, moving on... having read this kind of article for quite a time now, I'd like to think that I know at least some of the signals to look for, and even when I'm ACTIVELY looking for them, I can't seem to find them. Case in point:

Couple of weeks ago, I was in an electronic music festival with a couple of buddies of mine. It wasn't packed, I could walk easily, but it was LOUD AS MOTHERFUCKER (naturally) and it wasn't dark by any means, so I could see the girls' expressions, body language, etc. I'm not huge by any means nor dress like a gay popstar, so I don't draw lot's of attention naturally, but I was told in the past by girls I consider high caliber that I'm good looking, so I thought it wouldn't be that hard to look for bitches signaling me to go talk to them.

It came to a point that after a long time wondering if these girls were even noticing me, I started thinking that it'd be actually easier to find out if I approached 200 of them and see how it goes (which didn't happen). Also, I don't recall a situation in my life where a girl came to talk to me or came VERY close to me in the hopes that I'd say something. I'm guessing that's because of poor fundamentals?

In the short, I'd be very thankful if you could elaborate a little bit more on how you, particularly, do this. That seems to be the trend here and we're all eager to hear this more in detail, probably with an early, not-smooth and fucked-up example in which you barely failed so we can relate better and understand the dynamics of it when going out with the specific purpose of looking for these signals when going out.

BD
 

Troy

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DrexelScott said:
Just realize which of the girls you're attracted to are seeking sex (or open to a new sex partner) and then go flirt with them. It's still a numbers game but the success rate is more like 1/7 or 1/8 than 1/200 or whatever statistics mass-approachers are pulling. There are horny women everywhere. At the mall. On campus. In class. At work. They are letting the world know they are horny, thought subtly, and learning to recognize these signals will make the game so much easier than some of you are making it for yourselves.



In addition to what Drexel said here are my thoughts. I don't like the idea of getting far less returns compared to the effort put out. What's the point in approaching 200 women if I only get a date out off 10 girls. Lets say out of that 200 women

37 Blows you off before a proper open
66 Doesn't give you her number/ wrong number
40 Flakes on a Date and you never hear from her again
30 Comes on date but you get no where with her ( not even the friend zone )

...Leaving 27 women that you have a chance to sleep with. Those are just random statistics I made up. The point is I don't want to be approaching so many girls and only getting back such small amount of results. I broaden the net for what I consider results; I consider female friends being made from a cold approach as results and that's just a personal preference. I'm not so fussy on getting a high lay count.

No matter what it will still be a numbers game as Drexel said but that doesn't mean that any numbers the universe throws at me I will take. I'd consider getting at least a quarter of results for my effort is satisfactory. Cold approach 10 girls in a week? At least 3 I should be making headway with. If I get just 2 then something is still off. Now multiply that. Cold approach 200 women? I should be getting somewhere with at least 50 of them instead of 27.

My top steps for increasing that number and closing the gap between effort and results are:

1. Live a interesting life and don't make seduction my number one goal. Who would a girl rather hang out with: A PUA who is good at talking to girls and laying them or the guy that lives an interesting life who goes interesting places and has ambition? It's the second guy anyday. That is the major reason why the footballers and jocks got more girls with little effort in high school. They just do their thing and girls just see them and want to go on a journey with these guys.

2. Look for interested girls. Same as explained above by Franco.


My time is precious and even though I will approach girls I think a better investment would be to develop a wholesome lifestyle that would allow me to be able to relax and let the girls come to me. After all the mission for us on here is to make GIRLS CHASE. Without being careful with your time you'll end up having to cold approach every day every year. The girls should chase and cold approach YOU once in a while.

Troy
 

ray_zorse

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hey Drexel good posts, I def agree with 99% of what you've said, however I have to object here:

I hate to say it, but at the end of the day the only really good advice is the too-vague "Be yourself" and "Be confident." Speak with confidence about the things that interest you, be picky and have standards, don't take shit from people and stand up for yourself. That's the guy women like. NOT the guy who spends his free time approaching hundreds and hundreds of women, because they screams "he has no life and doesn't get it" and yes, they can usually tell.

Yes, but I was far from a social novice when I started yet my conversation had a lot of rough edges. It was only through doing thousands of approaches that I got the rough edges out and it's basically still a work in progress, I'm still not good at deflecting stuff and only good at sexualizing on a good day and so on.

I would never have got this amount of practice if I hadn't gone out to approach as many women as possible. Especially as a noob, momentum is so important which is why it can be good to do a shit ton of approaches in a short time. However since I'm still struggling with AA I've decided to do it more like Sasha says:
http://www.sashapua.com/how-to-defeat-approach-anxiety-forever/
Great post. I can't help thinking this is more of an option for intermediate guys though -- a beginner may be better off just going out with a target of doing 10 approaches come hell or high water. I honestly couldn't recommend a new guy to do what you're suggesting, because just they won't get enough practice.

I think what you're really saying is that a guy who goes out and does a shit ton of approaches is probably lonely, and that women can pick up on this quite easily. Sure, and I think this made me come undone during an insta-date recently, but it does not matter, some women are still down and you get less lonely this way, thus fixing the underlying problem. It's basically a matter of "if hungry, eat... if thirsty, drink... if lonely, approach..." etc, and I don't see how this could be bad.

I think we might be on the same page in any case, given what you said earlier in the same post:
Most PUAs are completely faking it. They don't "get it" at all, they are pretending to get it and sometimes that works long enough to trick a girl into sex but then it falls apart later. This was me at one point as well, and even still I have my moments when things don't hold up completely for one reason or another.
So yeah it is kind of a case of "fake it till you make it" sometimes... I genuinely like and respect women and have no intention of tricking them into sex, they should want to have sex with me... yet that is how it turns out sometimes. Oh well.

-Ray
 

Franco

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I can provide a bit of clarification here as well (for some of you who may be confused).

Drexel and I had a discussion about it awhile ago, but I still consider a cold approach to be any situation where you approach the girl to introduce yourself, regardless of prior indicators that the girl is interested in meeting you in the first place. So if the girl smiles and waves at you from a distance, even though you haven't met her yet, then I consider approaching her and talking to her a "cold" approach (since you are the one approaching her when she has no semblance of who you are, although she might know what you want).

Drexel considers a cold approach to be an approach where the girl visibly has not seen (or acknowledged) your existence yet, but you approach her anyway by grabbing her attention verbally or physically. So when he says he has not cold approached many women, what he means by that is he has never approached a girl that he hadn't pre-opened (or received indicators of interest from) before actually making the approach.

So for those of you assuming that Drexel was meaning that women constantly approach him and introduce themselves without him actually making an effort to move toward her, then you are a bit off the mark. Although, when you DO handle your fundamentals well and you know how to communicate interest through your non-verbals, you can occasionally get women to physically approach you and introduce themselves as well.

I hope this clarifies things. =)

- Franco
 

Prehistoric

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Mine is not really field-related because I have accepted that to get good at something it takes time and a lot of failures.

My frustration, but maybe also opportunity, is that this whole pick-up thing is making me face things about myself, my education, my parents' and especially my father's influence on the way I am today. Things that I really didn't want to face and that I can see quite clearly are at the core of many of my limits in pick-up and other fields of life.

It is tough to see those things in the eyes and act to change them, because they're not things you can stop doing here and now by simply deciding. you have to really reset your internal state of mind and self-image with patience and persistence, and it's frustrating to see guys who probably never had those kinda of situations and can do very easily things I have to work on. You feel like "it's not fair". But I try not to get stuck in that kind of "victim state of mind", because sure there are a lot of people out there who had it much worse than me after all.

As I said, I'll try to see that as an opportunity for improvement, but sometimes it's just, well "frustrating" :)
 

Indian Race Troll (IRT)

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My biggest frustration is not getting the kind of girls I want but getting a lot of attention/strong interests from the kind of girls I want nothing to do with.

I prefer hot blondes like most guys but for the most part, I cannot get any chemistry with any of the ones I come across. Now I do live in the northeast and we don't have as many hot blondes as say California does but the few I run across, I cannot get any attention or love from. On the other hand I want nothing to do with black girls, fat girls, and most dark skinned girls but I get so much attention from them to where it is uncomfortable for me. What I notice is that black girls come on strong and get touchy with me really fast which just creeps me out, it isn't the Alicia Keys lookalikes either but more of the ugly ones who are ghetto as well. Don't get me wrong, I would date a Kerry Washington in a heartbeat but these are more of the worldstar hiphop types which I want nothing to do with. My issue personally is that these girls barely even know me but will instantly start getting touchy feeling in public which is so annoying. Fat bitches are like this too, I mean like wtf.

So far my happiness has come from the middle ground, I have had a lot of sex in the past few months with gingers (who are into me for some odd reason and I love them too), swarthier white girls (Italian, Greek, etc.), and white girls that don't fit the hot blonde image. Just a week ago I was nailing this tall and skinny brunette with a cute face so hard that my neighbors in my apartment knew about it, one guy gave me a thumbs up when he saw me later on in the day and smiled. I have fucked a few gingers and a lot of brunettes during my lay streak, enjoy the sex but I still have that empty feeling inside of me of not being able to get the blonde bombshell.

I feel like the second I can finally land a hot blonde is when I will feel at peace with the whole game but until then, it has been a pain in the ass. Like these women are so fucking difficult for me to get that I wish someone who had success with these types would just PM me.
 
a good date brings a smile to your lips... and hers

Bboy100

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To be honest, as a beginner, I feel like this whole area of my life is one giant mess of ideas, and I have no idea where to start and what material to believe and use. In fact, because of my lack of success, and the fact that I don't know anyone who's on even an intermediate level, a small part of me doubts the concept of being able to go out on any given night and pull a women is even possible (I completely ignore this part of my thought process!). To give you a little background, I just turned 21, and I've been studying dating material since I was 18. I really haven't been able to take much action since. Mainly because I felt like the combination of my young age, approach anxiety and lack of logistics would hold me back (these problems are solving themselves now, except for approach anxiety). And even if I did, because I need improvement on literally EVERYTHING, I feel like I would have a very hard time identifying what I did wrong.

What I've discovered is that I probably need a mentor. Partially to help me identify my mistakes, and partially to show me without a doubt that getting consistent results in this game is possible. I have no friends which have any knowledge of game and no1 to look up to. All I have are these articles and these boards to try to make things happen for myself.

So I guess my biggest sticking point would be finding a mentor. Chase wrote an article on this which was pretty helpful. But still, he himself mentioned that I have to "show promise" for any mentor to want to spend time with me (no1 wants to coach someone who's not a star). Obviously, that's not me...yet. So, what I'd really like to hear is your perspective on how to get a mentor as a beginner who knows nothing. And I don't mean a mentor who I pay or exchange some other type of monetary asset for his services. I mean someone who's my friend and actually cares about my success like a coach would care about the success of his team.
 

Smith

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ray_zorse said:
I hate to say it, but at the end of the day the only really good advice is the too-vague "Be yourself" and "Be confident." Speak with confidence about the things that interest you, be picky and have standards, don't take shit from people and stand up for yourself. That's the guy women like. NOT the guy who spends his free time approaching hundreds and hundreds of women, because they screams "he has no life and doesn't get it" and yes, they can usually tell.

Yes, but I was far from a social novice when I started yet my conversation had a lot of rough edges. It was only through doing thousands of approaches that I got the rough edges out and it's basically still a work in progress, I'm still not good at deflecting stuff and only good at sexualizing on a good day and so on.

I would never have got this amount of practice if I hadn't gone out to approach as many women as possible. Especially as a noob, momentum is so important which is why it can be good to do a shit ton of approaches in a short time. However since I'm still struggling with AA I've decided to do it more like Sasha says:
http://www.sashapua.com/how-to-defeat-a ... y-forever/
Great post. I can't help thinking this is more of an option for intermediate guys though -- a beginner may be better off just going out with a target of doing 10 approaches come hell or high water. I honestly couldn't recommend a new guy to do what you're suggesting, because just they won't get enough practice.

I think what you're really saying is that a guy who goes out and does a shit ton of approaches is probably lonely, and that women can pick up on this quite easily. Sure, and I think this made me come undone during an insta-date recently, but it does not matter, some women are still down and you get less lonely this way, thus fixing the underlying problem. It's basically a matter of "if hungry, eat... if thirsty, drink... if lonely, approach..." etc, and I don't see how this could be bad.

You know...I have to say I don't really do that well when I go out solely to talk to women (mass approaching). Even if I have the momentum on my side, it is still not as good as me just talking to women when I'm out on my daily routine. (I'm talking about quality over quantity here) I wish there's someone to watch my interactions to give me feedback on the difference, but I seem to be more chill and relax when women is not my priority during my day out. So I really like that article from Sasha. I don't really believe in "sarging" and "mass approaching" anymore, although I'll do it now and then when I have been trapped at home doing work for too long, and I just need some of that feminine energy.

I do agree that for a beginner they may need to schedule it in to get more practice since you simply need more reference experience to see the "big picture" and how the numbers game work, but they should also talk to girls wherever and whenever they go.

I become a huge believer of building a social circle with cute girls and cool people, and constantly expanding it. It's a good way to keep your social skills sharp and make life a lot more fun.
 

Motiv

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DrexelScott said:
Are you guys all mass-approaching? There is such an easier way to learn. It still takes a lot of time and effort but at least it's spent in the right direction, IMO mass-approaching or "grinding" is usually just spinning your wheels.

Although I'm a novice here (only three lays since putting GC to work over one year ago), I'd like to state that I take pride in efficiency. There are many, many things that need sorting out in my life, and becoming a sexual man is just one of them. That said, my first goal, coming in as a male virgin just over one year ago at 34 years old, was to make the first girl I slept with into my girlfriend so that I could learn to get good at sex and become acquainted with the dynamics of a relationship in general. In her own words, I went from being horrible in bed to being the best sex she ever had in her life—after just three months.

What would have been the odds I could improve sexually had I constantly bounced from girl to girl as a beginner? Probably pretty low. That relationship lasted a year, and after I broke it off, the next girl I slept with (number three—number two happened a week after number one, lasted a week, and happened to be easy to please) constantly sends me text messages from Denmark about how she can't stop day dreaming of fucking me—out of sixty plus lays, I'm the best one she's ever had. Do I feel confident about my sexual ability? Dam straight I do. Now, it's on to rack up the numbers, but I am still one to pace myself and cherish efficiency: why waste energy on women who don't notice me when there are plenty of cute (and some very hot) girls who do? In fact, one major reason I decided to learn seduction in the first place was due to the high number of cute girls throwing smiles my way for years... and me having absolutely no clue how to handle that.

My biggest drawback is a twisted psychological dilemma: I have believed all my life that sex outside of marriage was evil and was told repeatedly by my closest mentor that I had the white devil's evil in my DNA. Thus, when I set out on the path of seduction, I felt like I was cherishing the temptation to be evil... and I enjoyed it. Under that mentor, I became a talented liar too—his demands were so extreme and I wanted to impress—my ex gf rightly fretted how effortlessly I could lie to her. Hence, I chose an image of Loki as my avatar: master of illusion and conspiracy.

I also feel like I practice seduction out of a sense of low self-esteem—that, given enough time, no woman could possibly stay sexually attracted to me in monogamous relationship—I may as well blow them out before they can do it to me. I had always dreamed about finding that unicorn princess, but after coming to GC, I saw that as pointless. Since I have never actually fallen in love anyway, and I love the freedom my solitude gives me too much, it all started coming together.

One thing a celibate man and a seducer have in common: they don't have family or make babies.

If I could ask you one thing Drexel, it would be this: how do you draw the line between being a "bad ass" or a "bad boy," and being a rotten person. It's all kind of fuzzy for me now.

Thanks for reading—I know it was long-winded.

M
 

Lotus

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Mischief,

The beautiful thing about this seduction community is your not tricking girls into sex your seducing them. , A slight deviation but it makes all the difference.

Bad boys are very transparent about their nature they do not lie or trick their way into a girls pants, the girl engages in sex with him knowing fully well what he is.

You can be a mysterious bad boy seducer without being a liar

I got stuck into a cycle of lying with my ex because I didn't want to hurt her... In the end it takes a toll on you as the lies build

So I would argue lying something enables you to cross from bad ass to shitty... Hopefully you don't spend as much time listening to that mentor anymore it seems like that was a very negative way to teach seduction.


In reference to Drexel's style....the big difference is....he approaches anyone and everyone vs just approaching attractive women on an outing. The Drexelapproach acquires just as many reference points as cold approaching but but he is conditioned to treat everyone as just another person.

Now you may not have as many overall interactions but you will able to adeptly navigate conversations with anyone.... So when you do run into a cute girl,conversation will flow with minimal effort and your percentages will 100% increase
 

Motiv

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Thank you, Brum. I do appreciate your response and I find your advice very sound.

I should have clarified, but that mentor worked with me musically and played a major role in helping me achieve the professional status I now have in the symphony orchestra. Unfortunately, his mentorship also came at an unusually high psychological cost, and I did finally cut him out of my life last year. Now, I am in the process of carving a fresh personal life for myself (never really had one before) and picking up the pieces of my career (he fell at odds with most of my colleagues, including those most responsible for hiring me). At this point, I either I trust myself or bust. As narcissistic as that sounds, it seems all that's left to live by.

Congruently, I feel there is a world of lust and adventure awaiting me, both in the worlds of musical performance and women. I am totally serious when I tell you that pleasuring a woman is mind-blowingly similar to performing a great piece of music—each girl like a unique masterwork, waiting to be discovered (approached), interpreted (understood), and performed (taken to bed) according to the artist's (seducer's) creative will and experience. Giving good (or great) sex is one of the most wonderful satisfactions I could have ever imagined. And this site gave me the tools and the inspiration to get there.

M
 

Grand Pooba

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Drexel -

Great thread you have going on, though I just noticed it!

I certainly have some sticking points. My current issues:

- Being described as pushy. I understand that there's a fine line between being persistent and being pushy; however, far too often I have been described as pushy or disrespectful, whether it's a first date or it's because I've been seeing a girl for a while

Mental issues regarding being pushy:
- Having a scarcity mentality (if I don't get her home RIGHT NOW (!!!) all is lost). I feel that I have this mindset where I cannot tell the difference between persistence and when a girl just isn't comfortable with moving that fast yet.
- Identifying escalation and pull windows, and creating them.
- Trust Issues around Women: This could be related to this. I've just come to realize that I don't fully trust women around me, and this includes people in my life like my mother, women that actually do like me and enjoy being around me (but I still don't fully embrace or trust them), and it's probably from bad experiences I had with both my mother and girls I liked when I was much younger.

- Picking up girls in nightlife. I understand that there are guides and articles for this sort of things in GC.
With that being said, I rarely go out to bars and clubs and try to meet women. I don't particularly enjoy it. Not sure if this is a super efficient way to get lays.

DrexelScott said:
I will come up with some examples, keep in mind that I rarely / never go out specifically to hit on girls. When I do, I rarely enjoy those evenings at all. I meet girls everywhere--at work, at the stores they work at, while walking around throughout the day and just talking to lots of people. I can meet girls when I go out at night but theres a whole added pressure to the night that I usually don't enjoy.

My particular talents rely on my being able to pay hawk-like focus and attention to the girl and what she's doing, which is very hard to do in a loud, flashy, noisy club. Which is why I don't go to clubs. My advice is more for guys that don't want to spend lots of time just hitting on girls, but would rather just meet them everywhere throughout the course of the day.

I do too go out and about my day and meet women, and don't really go out anymore for the sole purpose of getting numbers or cold approaching.
However, this tends to still net me meeting maybe 3-4 women a day, max. Doesn't seem like a hyper efficient way to get numbers, hits, lays, etc, simply because there isn't enough quantity. Or I'm just not approaching enough when I'm out.
 

Kuro

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Mine is getting past the flirting stage. Even though I never actually get laid, I feel like I'm great at flirting. I can get girls sitting on my lap, holding my hand, rubbing against me, and more... only for it to not go anywhere.

A while back I had an attractive girl from my social circle practically spamming me with texts and winky faces, yet it didn't go anywhere. Suffice to say, she got a boyfriend and tried to friend zone me. Not wanting to be stuck in the friend zone, I told her that I don't have time for a girl with a boyfriend and that I'm going to focus on single women. I stopped talking to her outside of my social circle(even deleted her number) and barely even interact with her in the social circle, apart from some playful banter here and there.

Not sure how well that has worked, since she almost seems to hate me. But I'm glad I at least managed to avoid the friend zone bullet.
 

Drck

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Drexel: "Basically, nothing a guy does makes any difference if the woman is not sexually available. Women who are happily in relationships will never give you the time of day, or if they do, it's because they're being polite and there is absolutely nothing you can do to sleep with them......"

Damn, this is really a great post, the whole text. That should be nailed to the board!
 

FeelIWastedMyYouth

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when girls glake on you, cancel plans at the last minute or do not notify you in advance to let you know that something came up.
 
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