Whats the point of love?

Dr Feelgood

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In the beginning of this year I visited Cody Lyans for a couple of days. He basically showed me what is/was (still working on that) lacking in my game: warmth/emotional proximity/openness (whatever you want to call it...).

As a DIRECT result of that I was able to deeply connect with a woman that I had a first date with just a day before I flew to Cosy. As I kind of picked up from him I completely opened myself up and connected with her. That was the start of my second relationship in my life. I have fucked a lot of girls before. But this girl is one that I really like for a couple of reasons. She's smart, she's educated, she's creative, she's confident, funny and she's beautiful AND sexy. We shared a wonderful time together and opened up towards each other. Just in the recent weeks I observed myself emotionally closing towards her and stop being authentic. I started interrogating myself why this is the case and I came to the following conclusions.


1) Although I thought we both were super honest to each other, she revealed some different aspects of stories that she already told me. Stuff that I'd call "crippled truth". For instance did she compliment me a lot on the way that I approached her. (It was indeed a pretty good approach lol) and added that "most guys are really creepy because they add too much pressure on the girl. For example one time I got a piece of paper ("Hi :)" written on it). in the train from a guy, I directly gave it back." Now the part that she didn't mention when she told me the story the first time is that the guy kept being persistent (Hector style I'd imagine haha) and ended up fucking her although he wasn't her type physically for month until she fell in love with him.
(Where I am from, it is a technique called "salami tactic" and utilized by politicians to reveal the truth gradually not to scare off any voter lol. And yes, I knew before girls/women operate like that.)

2) "If you once have a special connection to a guy, it'll stay the same even if you are not together anymore. Love transforms into something different then, but it will forever be something special". Call me narrow-minded, but For me that's Polyamory.

3) Lots of stuff and places we did together, she did already with her previous "lovers".

I admit that I am a little emotionally affected and disappointed. For me something is special because - among other things - it's rare. But if as it turns out not that much is required to get a girl to a date, seduce her, have sex with her and make her fall in love with you AND eventually love you - (because others did as well, even with shittier game/looks/status whatever) what's so fucking special about it?!


And now please attack me for being bitter ;)
 

Skills

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This whole post is about you being jealous that your main was in love with another dude with shitty game, guess what that is probably every dude in the forum has had the same experience, not only that most women leave for a total beta eventually.... Your attitude is totally anti seductive/ anti secret society. Pure evil has a post in nextasf call serial monogamy (i am not talking about monogamy) but there he describes the rush and the excitement you get from the pair bonding etc...
 

Chase

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@Dr Feelgood-

Yeah, it sort of sucks finding out the girl you care for has cared for other men. Especially when you are new to relationships.

Not sure what your first girlfriend was like. If you were her first real romance... or if she just stayed clammed up about her prior romances.

You'll find some girls are very sensitive to their man not thinking about them being in-love with other men, and will do this thing where they don't talk much about past guys, and make those guys sound kind of "okay, but not great... not as great as you" when they discuss them. Other girls will be open about their prior relationships and you'll get those details easily.

It sounds like at first she was a little circumspect about telling you details. e.g., painting that train guy as just a "dude with a weak opener", without adding on that actually, after that weak opener, she ended up sleeping with him anyway due to persistence. Once she felt more comfortable with you later, that came out.

One of the things you will discover in early relationships is that people have certain patterns, and they follow them with everyone.

The same places she went with her exes, she will take you to. Fun activities she liked to do with her exes she will want to do with you. Movies she watched with her ex she'll watch with you. The way she behaves with you -- her excitement when you come over, the attention she lavishes on you, the meals she cooks you, the way she gets into sex and how she orgasms and the positions she enjoys -- that's all stuff she did with her exes too. Etc.

This is something you have to make peace with, if you're dating non-virgins... your woman has had relationships, and she is an individual person, who has her own interests, likes, and dislikes, and as she figures out what those are, she's going to fall into patterns of doing the same things again and again with any man she dates.

You and her will discover new things together. You'll bring her to a new coffee shop she loves, and that becomes her favorite hangout. You'll introduce her to a genre of film she never watched before and gets really into. You'll open her up to something sexually she was never into previously. And then if you split up, and she dates a new guy, she'll do that stuff with him too, because that too has become part of her interests and pattern, along with all the other stuff she learned with prior boyfriends and brought to her relationship with you.

You will let go of this feeling of caring about this stuff with time, once you make peace with it.

You can talk to her about it if she's over-sharing. Just tell her: "Hey, I'm glad you enjoyed watching Gone with the Wind with your ex-boyfriend Scooter, but I don't want to hear about how Scooter cried at the end when I'm trying to watch this with you. I'm sure Scooter's a great guy but I'd rather it just be you, me, and the movie in the room here."

Mostly it's going to come down to though that once your reality shifts, and you have that internal awareness of "Oh, right. Women are people, and people fall into patterns. They do the same things with people in similar roles in their lives. The boyfriend role is just like this. Any given woman is going to do a lot of the same stuff with me she did with her ex."


BONUS TIP: CREATING MORE SPECIALNESS

Here's one cool thing you can do, that will restore some of the intimacy to your relationship for you.

Look for new, novel things you can do with your girl, that none of her priors has probably done yet. e.g.:

  • New restaurants to take her to she's never gone to
  • New movies to watch she's never seen before
  • New conversation topics she's never explored before
  • New sex positions / kinds of sex she hasn't tried
  • Unlock new kinds of orgasms for her she hasn't experienced yet (anal, cervical, etc.)
  • Travel with her somewhere she's never been before

When I was younger, in my first relationships, where it kind of bugged me that women were doing stuff with me they did with their exes, I focused on this stuff a lot. It helps. You are creating new memories for her and engaging her in new experiences she's never had with anybody else.

After a while, you kind of reach a point where you don't care as much about this. You know that any given girlfriend you take, you have enough stuff you do where at least some of it is going to be new for her. And you aren't worried so much about whether she's done X or Y or Z with prior boyfriends and is also doing it with you.

Try to give this girl more of a chance.

She's being open with you. She didn't give you the full picture on Train Guy before, but it doesn't sound like she lied.

Always having a special connection to your exes is natural, and everybody has that. Again, not sure what Relationship #1 was like for you, but I assume you probably still regard that girl as more special than an ordinary person, and if you ran into her on the street somewhere your emotions would not just be like "Hmm, just an ordinary person, to whom I have no extra emotional attachment. Disregard." Right? People stay connected to people they've bonded deeply with, even if they aren't shagging those people anymore. (however, this is also a good reason to not have girlfriends whose exes are still in the picture. The bond remains, after all)

Then just do new things with her, so you are creating new memories, that are only between you and her.

I think you'll find as you get through it, you chill out about this a bit, and stop caring so much if you're at a baseball game with her, and find out she went to baseball games with her ex Tommy, or if she gargles your cum after she deep throats you and you find out it was Tommy who trained her to do that. You'll just realize that is how people are, they learn things as they go with the various people they date, and the (hopefully good) stuff they learned along the way they want to share with whomever they're dating now. And they can of course have new things they discover with you as well they've never done with anyone else too.

Chase
 

Dr Feelgood

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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@Skills: i appreciate the tough love. wouldnt say im jealous. "jus"t (too) attached to this thing in so far as im disappointed that as it turns out...yeah women build all sorts of connections to guys. and as cosy would say you're a point on their radar, maybe big fat green dot but still, the other points never disappear. And youre always one among several. i dont mind if you call this thought jealousy or madonna whore complex. and yeah, this attitude IS anti-seductive and anti secret society. but thats exactly im just asking myself, why not just keep the relationship fun, sexy, adventurous (secrect society, seductive), connect with that and avoid all the DEEP connection stuff. because well, what's the point of sharing when women do that ritually?!


@Chase: your answer is so insightful, great to hear from your perspective. I kind of feel like a hot girl who is getting fucked for her looks. just that I get connected with for my personality. One could say now that personality > looks. But is this really that different from the superficiality of choosing someone just for the looks (which means you can easily replace the person) when you do the same with connection?
I come from a very different perspective (probably a worse one what I am realizing writing this.) Although I have had my fair share of girls, a girl connecting with me used to be a privilege that I grant her. It's odd for me to open up to "everybody" and connecting, at least when it comes to sexual encounters.
Like yeah, I also had very ritual-like dating strategies. For example using the same bar again and again for a first meetup to get the girl to my appartment later. But I am the first to admit that not a single of these girls were special to me. Because if they were what's the point in doing everything the same way lol. And what's the point in treating someone special if they fall in love with someone anyway just by the rule that time together => connection => love. That's one the one hand really empowering for those wanting to be able to get "love" as it shows how "simple" it is. But it's also very disentchanting.
Of course the same thing happened in my first relationship (although there I lacked the self-awareness to understand why I was disappoitned). Basically I was a copy of her former boyfriend(s).

I mean if you don't want to have family, have children.....I don't feel very satisfied with pureevil's concept of serial monogamy. Like having relationships as long as they last and then "next!". Why not creating many, many deep friendships instead and fuck girls. as many and as hot as possible. and leave the connection part for friendships?

Just asking myself if that's a frustrated proto MGTOW shit mindset or just realistic.
 

Richard

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Why not be able to have the deep connection without the negative emotions that are coming with it because, ya know, that's also possible :p

For most people, "love" is measured by how much somebody would hurt if the object of their "love" was taken away from them but that's extremely unhealthy and possessive. You seem to be having that, at least to some degree, because learning of a woman's past lovers is affecting your good vibes BUT that's also a problem with your mentality and not her.

But, a lot of us also end up at a point where we make peace with it and understand it's just a part of dating/being intimate with women. The only thing that matters to me is how a woman treats me when she's with me; I don't care if she fucked Ryan Gosling in the past if she's fucking me today. I don't care if she's taking me to the same restaurants as she took him because now I'm the one in front of her, making new experiences with her.

And, last but not least, eventually you do reach that point where you have deep connection without the toxicity of comparing. These days, I care about women and people in a general sense and I care for the woman/women I'm with but I also have the bigger picture in mind. A woman will never my main concern or main goal so the details of her past/who she's fucked/who she's cared about just don't matter all that much to me, anymore. When I reached a point of having a woman be completely in love with me WHILE I started to lose my intense feelings I realized just how little women matter in the grand scheme of things; that's not to say that women aren't awesome and aren't incredible to have around, it's just that there are BIGGER things out there.
 

Hector Papi Castillo

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Now the part that she didn't mention when she told me the story the first time is that the guy kept being persistent (Hector style I'd imagine haha) and ended up fucking her although he wasn't her type physically for month until she fell in love with him.
(Where I am from, it is a technique called "salami tactic" and utilized by politicians to reveal the truth gradually not to scare off any voter lol. And yes, I knew before girls/women operate like that.)
xD The paper is actually kinda cute. I've done something similar with writing my opener on my phone when the club is too crazy and you can't hear shit, and then showing it to girls and having us type a conversation with each other on my phone. Some girls really got into it. I'd even write "Are you single?" and other shit haha.

Gotta pull a John Wick and always carry a pencil with me now.

"If you once have a special connection to a guy, it'll stay the same even if you are not together anymore. Love transforms into something different then, but it will forever be something special". Call me narrow-minded, but For me that's Polyamory.
Yeah, that's some real hippy shit there. I mean ,girls are girls, but that's extra hippy.

3) Lots of stuff and places we did together, she did already with her previous "lovers".

That's why lay counts are important. Too many lovers and that's too many experiences you can't give her. Or if it's not a high number, then she's so adventurous and experimental it's hard to be her "first" anything.

You want to go for girls who err on the side of "too inexperienced," but hopefully already went thru periods where they COULD have been a slut but weren't and also aren't so experimental that they've seen too much of life and you can't be ultra dom daddy with them.

(also, i'm not saying she's a hoe, just a place to give some advice)

But EVEN THEN...you still got a nice recourse.

You and her will discover new things together. You'll bring her to a new coffee shop she loves, and that becomes her favorite hangout. You'll introduce her to a genre of film she never watched before and gets really into. You'll open her up to something sexually she was never into previously. And then if you split up, and she dates a new guy, she'll do that stuff with him too, because that too has become part of her interests and pattern, along with all the other stuff she learned with prior boyfriends and brought to her relationship with you.

You will let go of this feeling of caring about this stuff with time, once you make peace with it
This. This is nice.

My biggest advice would be to accept that she has had good experiences with other men, and while you should seek to trump their achievements, you will never know 100% of what happened and 100% if you are the best (or whatever desire it is you're trying to satiate)...but you can do your damndest.

If you fix this, you will have very healthy relationships in the future.

But, still, do your best to pick girls correctly. Avoid red/orange flags.

Hector
 

Cody Lyans

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Hrmm I don't do stuff for love. That's not why I am giving. I am giving cuz I react to jealousy and shit in my head where I give the girl a break. I did that so much I could BE love itself and no longer need it from a girl.

So I am indifferent to love because I have mastered my emotional reaction to it.

So... The point of love is that you embody it, not that it be given to you or special.
That you accept and expect limitations in people and that you are prepared to be present during the stressful moments you want to pull away and be judgemental.

I value other things above love, like spiritedness and joy, humility, vulnerable honesty, and the ability to cherish something real.

I stay very calm around love stuff. To me it is the same as sexual tension, but it is emotional tension.
The way to react is calmly

That said my standard to be loving to a girl does exist and it is a high bar.
But it is not a garuntee or promise. Love always exists in a balance with indifference
It's just how it works

The best thing to do is not be reactive to it
Keep stable


Maybe the girl isn't good enough for you
But who cares, sometimes that is just life
You aim then to get someone who is but it should not be judged on if she never makes you feel shitty. Lol.

Just look at this with common sense
 
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