Why The Hell Is This Happening?

[James D]

This is one of the craziest things that has been happening to me lately.

I'll open a girl, have a great conversation with her, get some compliance, touch her here and there. So far, so good.

We'll spend lots of time vibing and I'll propose to meet up for a coffee, she heartily agrees, gives me her number with enthusiasm ...

And never replies back.

Today marks the fifth girl this happened.

This particular case is quite disheartening because we had SUCH a good vibe.

I was working on my laptop in a McD. She took the table next to me and I had a feeling she wanted me to open. So I did.

We had one of the best conversations.

Quickly deep dived her and found our her dream is to become a chef. I injected good vibes by inspiring her to pursue her dream.

Requested her to move next to me, which she complied enthusiastically.

There was some light touching, she punched me playfully a couple times, nervously laughing at some of my jokes that was not funny.

We vibed for like 1h30 min until I had to leave for a meeting and she had to get to work.

During that time, I had gotten her number and agreed to meet up next week.

She even searched for a cool jazz bar we can both go and assures me that i'll love it because it fits our vibe.

I am 100% sure this girl liked me.

These were not mere reactions, I've had enough experience to know that this girl was INTO me.

After my meeting, I found that she did respond to my WhatsApp message but then deleted the message and BLOCKED me.

The previous girls did not block me but literally ghosted me on my opening message.

So I can't even pin it on a texting mistake.

I have no clue what the hell is wrong.

Five last girls, exactly the same issue.

And with each one of them the vibe was on point, there was touch, compliance for the 45 min or more that we talked.

 

[HoofHearted]

This is such a good question.

The real answer from me is-- I don't know. Because a) I wasn't there and b) we have to account for statistical randomness.

However, all that aside, I want to present a notion that I myself have been playing with. I actually have foregone, or "lost", two sexual opportunities in the last week as I tool around.

I think this is an opportunity to discuss what 'doing a good job' means. For my part, I had always made the (bad) assumption that I wanted to be as attractive as possible and have the best vibe/interaction as possible as women.

But this is false. And we learn the hard way.

What we really want is to have the *most effective* interaction with women. And that interaction is NOT necessarily always when you're super attractive, or have the best vibe or connection. In fact, these things can hurt the process, or make it end prematurely, maybe as it did for you.

The most effective interaction with women is the one that works toward your goal.

To get more specific, maybe you had a big, strong interaction with this woman and got a phone number. Days later she feels the weight of it, and doesn't know how to reconnect to that moment in order to text you. The context is gone and all that's left is some kind of burden she wants to avoid.

Versus had you made it light and breezy, got the number and got out... maybe re-connecting to you would be easier?

In other words, I suspect (but cannot prove... remember, I'm just a guy on the internet)... that you are in the realm of doing too much.

I think, if you were lining up to be intimate with her that day, and ask her to come over-- this big, strong interaction makes more sense. But lining up to take a phone number, it seems maybe too much? My hunch.

Back to the general principle I'm flirting with. It's called the minimum effective dose. Consider two situations:

Situation A: The one you had. Onlookers watch and smile as they see you and this woman have a great interaction. The onlookers note how attractive you seem, how good with women, how tight your game is! Of course you get her number, everyone can tell you get game! Outcome-- she flakes, you never hear from here again.

Situation B: Onlookers may or may not notice a guy talking to a girl. Maybe she laughs a little, but anyone can do that. The interaction is brief and concise but not rushed, it hardly seems like anything is happening, but she puts her number into your phone. No big deal, baby, we'll get her out later and invite her home. Onlookers might think... "Okay! I've got better game than that. That dude somehow got her number." But days later, because there's no pressure in replying because the interaction was so light, she answers your text back and you meet up for drinks maybe.


It sure looks like the guy in Situation B isn't doing much. But rather I think the guy in Situation B just knows what to do, how much of it to do, and when... and it's invisible to people who haven't thought about it.

Alternatively, maybe your woman hasn't texted you back because she fuckin choked on a big mac and died.

 

[James D]

Alternatively, maybe your woman hasn't texted you back because she fuckin choked on a big mac and died.

you managed to make me laugh with that line after being bummed out by what happened so kuddos to that

Everything you said is really interesting.

What we really want is to have the *most effective* interaction with women. And that interaction is NOT necessarily always when you're super attractive, or have the best vibe or connection. In fact, these things can hurt the process, or make it end prematurely, maybe as it did for you.

The most effective interaction with women is the one that works toward your goal.

To get more specific, maybe you had a big, strong interaction with this woman and got a phone number. Days later she feels the weight of it, and doesn't know how to reconnect to that moment in order to text you. The context is gone and all that's left is some kind of burden she wants to avoid.

Versus had you made it light and breezy, got the number and got out... maybe re-connecting to you would be easier?

Especially this bit.

I'll reflect over it for a while and see if I can fit it in the main scheme of things.

 

[HoofHearted]

you managed to make me laugh with that line after being bummed out by what happened so kuddos to that

Everything you said is really interesting.

Especially this bit.

I'll reflect over it for a while and see if I can fit it in the main scheme of things.

It is rather ponderous.

Years ago, I was on the dating apps and I was crushing it. Towards the end, I believe I was matching with the most attractive women on the apps. I certainly had part of the function well understood.

Probably one of my last, and slowest lessons was just a revisit to the basic concept I just described.

I'd match with a super hot, educated/accomplished young woman, and suddenly my manner of doing things would change. Normally on the apps I was sharp, concise and had a firm goal to get these girls out in public with minimal chit-chat... because I learned early on that chit-chat had the price of losing many meetups. Extreme volume of interactions and matching taught me that.

But with these top 5 percent of women, suddenly that went out the window and I'd use whatever intelligence I'd have to communicate, and craft very intentional interactions/discussions on the app, because I didn't want to lose my chance with these girls.

Almost all of them flaked on me.

I believe, had I behaved in the same manner as with all of the other women, that wouldn't have been the case. Just as my idea in my first response to your original post.

Don't give the deer anything to run from. Don't make noises in the woods.

Being overly connected/too good of a vibe/too attractive is just an extreme, as extreme and as vulgar as being unskilled in the first place. Both are noises in the woods and scare the deer.

Both are rocks thrown into a still pond that scare the fish away.

 

[Will_V]

This is one of the craziest things that has been happening to me lately.

I'll open a girl, have a great conversation with her, get some compliance, touch her here and there. So far, so good.

We'll spend lots of time vibing and I'll propose to meet up for a coffee, she heartily agrees, gives me her number with enthusiasm ...

And never replies back.

Today marks the fifth girl this happened.

This particular case is quite disheartening because we had SUCH a good vibe.

I was working on my laptop in a McD. She took the table next to me and I had a feeling she wanted me to open. So I did.

We had one of the best conversations.

Quickly deep dived her and found our her dream is to become a chef. I injected good vibes by inspiring her to pursue her dream.

Requested her to move next to me, which she complied enthusiastically.

There was some light touching, she punched me playfully a couple times, nervously laughing at some of my jokes that was not funny.

We vibed for like 1h30 min until I had to leave for a meeting and she had to get to work.

During that time, I had gotten her number and agreed to meet up next week.

She even searched for a cool jazz bar we can both go and assures me that i'll love it because it fits our vibe.

I am 100% sure this girl liked me.

These were not mere reactions, I've had enough experience to know that this girl was INTO me.

After my meeting, I found that she did respond to my WhatsApp message but then deleted the message and BLOCKED me.

The previous girls did not block me but literally ghosted me on my opening message.

So I can't even pin it on a texting mistake.

I have no clue what the hell is wrong.

Five last girls, exactly the same issue.

And with each one of them the vibe was on point, there was touch, compliance for the 45 min or more that we talked.

Yeah this definitely sounds like a case of overproviding good feelings. This is an article that helped me when I had the same issue: https://www.girlschase.com/content/overproviding-good-feelings

What seems to do a good job of counteracting it is:

- Keeping things short and sweet before the date
- Teasing more
- Applying more pressure and release (putting her on the spot and then qualifying her)
- Making her qualify to you
- Making sure the vibe is at least a bit sexual throughout

While the article I linked focused on the relationship between value and emotions, I think there's also the factor of her perspective during and after the interaction. If you think about it, she's been approached by a complete stranger, who somehow made her feel a big wave of good emotions, which made her open up a huge amount to him for hours and set up a date with him. Afterward when the emotional bubble pops she can easily think 'wtf did I just sign up for? I don't know him' and that cognitive dissonance between the logic and the collapsing emotions of the situation makes her panic and feel out of control.

She likely blocked you not because she didn't like you but because she was embarrassed at herself and didn't know how to put the brakes on things or how to put everything into a coherent picture.

When you keep things shorter, use a little more pressure and qualify her more, the good feelings are tempered by uncertainty (which makes her desire the thing that is uncertain) and also by her having to do things to get the reward rather than just getting a huge load of it for nothing, which otherwise feels like a debt.

Basically, that means she feels like the whole process is very much under her control and in fact she has to do things make sure she doesn't lose you, and that makes her feel comfortable as a woman and engages her attention, curiosity, and libido - like all those women's novels depict, a woman is fulfilled by being in that state of fussing around trying to figure him out and keep him interested, and just because you went up to her in the first place doesn't mean you can't give her that satisfaction.

 

[Chase]

@James D,

Read this:

What to Do When a Girl Doesn't Text Back

What to do when a girl doesn’t text back? First: don’t panic. Second: do things right next time. Third: read this and get her texting again. A reader writes in: I found something strange. Everytime Im having long interactions with girls in pickups on the streets, I bomb. I mean, she dont text...

www.girlschase.com

Chase

 

[DarkKnight]

Being overly connected/too good of a vibe/too attractive is just an extreme, as extreme and as vulgar as being unskilled in the first place.

This. I cannot describe it in words what the intution behind it is, but I also notice too polished fundamentals, too polished game really can scare them off or perhaps come across as tryhard.

Like OP I lost a girl recently which was similar, who I found really hot btw. She also had a boyfriend through social circle but I noticed she didnt really see him as her top pick. Regardless after connecting very well I got no response, I figured not to chase and couple weeks later suddenly girl blocked me, so there was some autorejection involved (after all I didnt chase or pursue). My intuition says this was not due to disinterest though, sometimes I get this nagging feeling that something is incomplete, this is one of those encounters.

I try not to dwell too much on these things but focus on other girls, perhaps that is a mistake because I don't solve the initial problem. That being said I don't encounter this as much as OP who I assume has encountered this in a streak.

 

[TomInHo]

This is actually very common and to explain it lets use an analogy

We all know dogs love treats, and when you are training a dog it's good to give them a few to keep them compliant and reward them for completing a task

But what happens when you give the dog the entire bag of treats?

At first the dog is on cloud 9 because it's enjoying so much deliciousness in such a short period of time. But when it devours the entire bag of treats you'll notice something interesting... It loses all interest in you and training

Because you gave it everything at once and it no longer feels the need to be compliant with training since the reward is no longer enticing

Or let's use movies as another example...

When you see a dope 2 minute trailer for a movie you feel compelled to watch the entire thing because a good trailer gives you so many unanswered questions that just needs to be answered

But if the trailer was 20 minutes long, you might be entertained if it was done well, but you'll probably also have a good idea of how the movie would end so may not feel as motivated to see it even though you know it will be good

So long story short, what's really happening here is that you are killing all tension and anticipation for what could happen on the date.

There's a saying that curiosity is the precursor to attraction, and this is why short but engaging interactions tend to lead to better follow-ups. Because the girl got a sample of what a full interaction with you could be like so decides to go on the date to quench her curiosity and find out if her assumptions that you're the best thing since sliced bread are correct

Therefore unless you know you can close the girl that same day or in that same interaction, it's not a high odds move to prolong the set.

 

[HoofHearted]

The reduction to functionalism/behavioralism is sometimes descriptive and helpful, and as somebody who values empirical methods, I too find it compelling.

No denying it is illustrative.

But inherently, although neuroscience is making strides, any reduction to biology or impulse at this point in time... is not quite as good as a rule of thumb. So I take this information in as compelling, but keep it in context despite its (imo) undue elevation in the secular age in which we live.

I also do not like the implicit comparison of women to dogs. It isn't the focus of the reply, and may not have been even fully consciously intended. But I feel it is important to say that women are not dogs. The biological processes that give rise the abstraction called consciousness exists in women (just as they do in men). (I realize I also did this with deer and fish in my example, and perhaps to a detriment).

I feel the pinnacle success and pleasure we will have with women is when we look across the chasm of our ultimately superficial-yet-significant differences and see at a fundamental level in each other: 'same-same.'

And I'm kind of 'on one' about this point rn. Because two of the concepts resting immediately in my attention at this point in time are the creation and quality of experiences for others (and myself), and nature of how random uncontrollable events (opportunity, quality experiences, orgasms in certain women) are encouraged to unfold/present themselves (ex., can't make a flower bloom, but can give it good soil, daylight and water, etc.)

 

[Skills]

This is one of the craziest things that has been happening to me lately.

I'll open a girl, have a great conversation with her, get some compliance, touch her here and there. So far, so good.

We'll spend lots of time vibing and I'll propose to meet up for a coffee, she heartily agrees, gives me her number with enthusiasm ...

And never replies back.

Today marks the fifth girl this happened.

This particular case is quite disheartening because we had SUCH a good vibe.

I was working on my laptop in a McD. She took the table next to me and I had a feeling she wanted me to open. So I did.

We had one of the best conversations.

Quickly deep dived her and found our her dream is to become a chef. I injected good vibes by inspiring her to pursue her dream.

Requested her to move next to me, which she complied enthusiastically.

There was some light touching, she punched me playfully a couple times, nervously laughing at some of my jokes that was not funny.

We vibed for like 1h30 min until I had to leave for a meeting and she had to get to work.

During that time, I had gotten her number and agreed to meet up next week.

She even searched for a cool jazz bar we can both go and assures me that i'll love it because it fits our vibe.

I am 100% sure this girl liked me.

These were not mere reactions, I've had enough experience to know that this girl was INTO me.

After my meeting, I found that she did respond to my WhatsApp message but then deleted the message and BLOCKED me.

The previous girls did not block me but literally ghosted me on my opening message.

So I can't even pin it on a texting mistake.

I have no clue what the hell is wrong.

Five last girls, exactly the same issue.

And with each one of them the vibe was on point, there was touch, compliance for the 45 min or more that we talked.

i personally don't like that set up a next meeting style (i know jmlv and other seducers do that style) i personally don't like making future meeting set ups then they feel obligated and creates anxiety (this is my opinion my take), i only do this style if i have gone really far in the physical seduction and she is more into me and is too obvious (but even then i don't even like it).... Then what happens is that people open and go back to the "when your schedule is available for the coffee you promised??" here is by ijjjjji:

100% Method for Meeting up with Girls​

02-18-2014, 01:55 PM
-

Part 1 - Why Plans Result in Cold Feet.

The inherent problem with planned events, is that during the period leading up to the event, there will be 'low' periods where future events are seen in a 'negative light' of worry or lack of enthusiasm. (Just think about a time when you were feeling worried, tired or just bored.) During such times, negative thoughts and worries tend to ACCUMULATE in regard to upcoming events. With longer time span, more such 'lows' will occur, potentially allowing multiple layers of negativity to accumulate. End result is often total loss of interest or even AVERSION.

In short, planning in advance will make any previous doubts FESTER & AMPLIFY, resulting in COLD FEET.

Conclusion: NEVER plan a first meet-up in advance.

Part 2 - How to Make Unplanned Meet-ups Happen.

Effortless way:
-Avoid communicating entirely, until next friday/saturday night.
-Then text something like "Hi Im at bar X! You?"

Fast way:
-Converse (text or phone-call) with girl WITHOUT hinting for a meet. Just flirt! No asking about what she doing or what her plans are.
-The moment SHE HINTS for a meet, suggest meeting up 'right now'.
-Example:

ij: "Heeey tiger u awake? Friday was fuun " (typically 11pm'ish on a sunday)

girl: "Yes? lol your name is sexyjiji?!?"

ij: "What?? you typo on your cell?? My name is ijjjji. Nice to meet you!"

girl: blablabla

ij: blabla (insert playfully busting her balls!!)


girl: flirty blabla. "Im watching series X. What u doing?"

ij: X is nice? I could watch with you but starving.. U have food?


(This method is much more effort, because sometimes you have to tease girls for days before they 'crack' like this. But it always happens sooner or later in my experience!)


- -
(Digression: The fallacy of reverse engineering is evident for this subject. 'Good' (popular) guys report that they never have problems when planning a meeting. (Since the girl had NO DOUBT to begin with.) Consequently, they tend to SPAM the forums with the BAD ADVICE of scheduling meets, leading to an endless stream of frustrated posts from newbies who always get last minute cancel from girls. On average there are 2 new topics like this every week. Every time the same useless advice given. Possibly making this the most deeply rooted misunderstanding in all of seduction.)

(Scheduling meetups can actually be useful for weeding out lukewarm girls, in a situation where you have many girls lined up.. e.g. you could schedule 10 girls from online on the same day, and hope that 1 or 2 dont flake.. Be warned though: the reduction of interest still plays a role, so the girl could be lukewarm when you meet her, leaving you with more 'uphill struggle', compared to a spontaneous meeting..)

Best thing to do is journalize and post the whole interactions and text logs....

 

[RedNeck]

All responses are well-thought out and sophisticated, but life does not have to be. One simple reason could be these women went home and thought about how it was inappropriate for them to meet a guy off the 'cafe" or "street" because these women have husbands, boyfriends, or fiancees or their friends told them not to.

 

[Skills]

All responses are well-thought out and sophisticated, but life does not have to be. One simple reason could be these women went home and thought about how it was inappropriate for them to meet a guy off the 'cafe" or "street" because these women have husbands, boyfriends, or fiancees or their friends told them not to.

They usually mention it...

 

[James D]

What seems to do a good job of counteracting it is:

- Keeping things short and sweet before the date
- Teasing more
- Applying more pressure and release (putting her on the spot and then qualifying her)
- Making her qualify to you
- Making sure the vibe is at least a bit sexual throughout

Thanks for your reply! I'll apply these notes on my next interactions.

by her having to do things to get the reward rather than just getting a huge load of it for nothing, which otherwise feels like a debt.

love this!

 

[James D]

@James D,

Read this:

What to Do When a Girl Doesn't Text Back

What to do when a girl doesn’t text back? First: don’t panic. Second: do things right next time. Third: read this and get her texting again. A reader writes in: I found something strange. Everytime Im having long interactions with girls in pickups on the streets, I bomb. I mean, she dont text...

www.girlschase.com

il

Chase

thanks Chase!

 

[James D]

All responses are well-thought out and sophisticated, but life does not have to be. One simple reason could be these women went home and thought about how it was inappropriate for them to meet a guy off the 'cafe" or "street" because these women have husbands, boyfriends, or fiancees or their friends told them not to.

Most of the time if the girl has a boyfriend or husband, at some point it does come up in the convo.

Almost like she makes it a point to get that out there and free herself of any responsibility if something does end up happening.

Nevertheless, it's still a possibility...

 

[James D]

This is actually very common and to explain it lets use an analogy

We all know dogs love treats, and when you are training a dog it's good to give them a few to keep them compliant and reward them for completing a task

But what happens when you give the dog the entire bag of treats?

At first the dog is on cloud 9 because it's enjoying so much deliciousness in such a short period of time. But when it devours the entire bag of treats you'll notice something interesting... It loses all interest in you and training

Because you gave it everything at once and it no longer feels the need to be compliant with training since the reward is no longer enticing

Or let's use movies as another example...

When you see a dope 2 minute trailer for a movie you feel compelled to watch the entire thing because a good trailer gives you so many unanswered questions that just needs to be answered

But if the trailer was 20 minutes long, you might be entertained if it was done well, but you'll probably also have a good idea of how the movie would end so may not feel as motivated to see it even though you know it will be good

So long story short, what's really happening here is that you are killing all tension and anticipation for what could happen on the date.

There's a saying that curiosity is the precursor to attraction, and this is why short but engaging interactions tend to lead to better follow-ups. Because the girl got a sample of what a full interaction with you could be like so decides to go on the date to quench her curiosity and find out if her assumptions that you're the best thing sliced bread are correct

Therefore unless you know you can close the girl that same day or in that same interaction, it's not a high odds

Thanks for this reply!

Especially the trailer analogy!

 

[Nobu]

So you talked for 90 minutes and all you did was ask questions, crack some jokes, invite her to sit beside you and touch her a bit.

After doing this five times in a row, you can see that NONE of these things will actually motivate random chicks from day game to meet up with you on a later date. Spiked emotions from cracking jokes do not last. Even if the touching you did made her a bit horny that wouldn't last either.

It sounds like you have a misunderstanding of what effective day game actually looks like. It's way more technical.

For example if you had dived deeper into why she wants to become a chef. To discuss the emotions and motivations surrounding this goal, you could have actually gotten inside her mind. Then found a way to relate her motivations to something you do. This would make her feel connected to you and remember your conversation long after you left. Or at least you'd be talking about her inner world like an authority, which girls love.

Instead you ran personality-based game which made YOU feel connected to the girl but did VERY LITTLE in terms of getting inside her mind and removing barriers to sex. I'm not even going to talk about how to remove barriers to sex from day game here cause it might go over your head.

 

[HoofHearted]

I'm not even going to talk about how to remove barriers to sex from day game here cause it might go over your head.

Hey that's like pretty mean man.

 

[James D]

So you talked for 90 minutes and all you did was ask questions, crack some jokes, invite her to sit beside you and touch her a bit.

After doing this five times in a row, you can see that NONE of these things will actually motivate random chicks from day game to meet up with you on a later date. Spiked emotions from cracking jokes do not last. Even if the touching you did made her a bit horny that wouldn't last either.

It sounds like you have a misunderstanding of what effective day game actually looks like. It's way more technical.

For example if you had dived deeper into why she wants to become a chef. To discuss the emotions and motivations surrounding this goal, you could have actually gotten inside her mind. Then found a way to relate her motivations to something you do. This would make her feel connected to you and remember your conversation long after you left. Or at least you'd be talking about her inner world like an authority, which girls love.

Instead you ran personality-based game which made YOU feel connected to the girl but did VERY LITTLE in terms of getting inside her mind and removing barriers to sex. I'm not even going to talk about how to remove barriers to sex from day game here cause it might go over your head.

Hey man! I'm not sure why you're coming with such aggression and almost zero forum decorum...

Anyhow, your diagnosis of the issue is little off and you're clearly misjudging my level with game.

But that's okay.

Read the replies from the higher ranked guys like @HoofHearted, @Will_V and the rest, they understood what the issue was and prescribed very similar solutions.

And your solution to deep dive deeper? nah, you're not getting the concept of not making emotions crest too early on if it's a situation where you'll meet up later.

The article Chase linked pretty much defined the exact issue I'm going through and again, deep diving more so she can remember you more ain't the solution.

Seems like it's your first post here, on the forum.

Welcome to Girls Chase. It's run by elite men and frequented my elite men or men on their way to becoming elite. Hope you fully maximise the chance you got of having found this site.

Cheers!

 

[Bill]

How is your body language, eye contact, tonality, and fashion? I think a lot of the time this is what she initially responds to and dictates if she’ll reply or not.

Todd V had a good video on making numbers solid, here