With most women being really picky...How do most women decide who to date?

[Chase]

@ZacAdam,

A high value man, will no longer becomes high value, the moment marriage enters. And this is something that Girlschase has brought up in their YouTube channel, in the past 1-2 years, and also in the forums. Where we finally recognize that relationship game and dating game are different.

Did you mean married men exit the dating market?

If you meant marriage affecting a man's value to other women... the effect is generally the opposite: it raises his value.

We just had a good conversation on it the other day here:

Married Game

SOME OBSERVATIONS SO FAR The lie of the land 1. Being married need not be an obstacle to flirtation, interest or getting a first date, whether in social circle or by cold approach. Women can sometimes be very unfussed about the man being married. In fact, men who are known to be "taken" have...

www.skilledseducer.com

Some women exclusively date married men. I knew a chick who from about age 18 to 25 wouldn't sleep with a guy unless he was married with children. She said she felt like unmarried men were little boys.

On some other forums I've been on in the past we've spoken about how wedding rings often serve as a big attractor to women. Numerous philandering seducers have talked about their wedding rings helping them pick women up (sometimes they even get opened on them). I recall a divorced guy years ago who kept wearing his wedding ring because he had better results with girls with it on. When they'd ask him about it he'd just say he was "recently divorced but still in the process of moving on", lol. Women went nuts for it.

It makes sense when you think about women's biggest concern when it comes to mates... "Is this guy LEGITIMATELY worth mating with or is he just good at faking it?"

Marriage says "some woman spent years evaluating this guy and decided after all that to let him wife her and probably put children in her." If the guy is otherwise attractive to a woman, and then he's married on top of that, it sort of serves like if you were thinking about buying a used Mercedes, but were trying to figure out if it was really as good as the sales guy said or if maybe it might have hidden problems... then you checked the paperwork and saw the car was certified as in tip-top shape by an official Mercedes-Benz dealer. Sets your mind at ease and removes many objections to selecting this car.


@Will_V,

Great analysis here. I loved this post.

That is why women's sexual attraction is so flexible - she responds far less to what a man is than the result he gets. She is not an idealist by nature - she does not have some perfectly detailed idea of what man she should want or need. Instead, she is very much acted upon by the event of male success. If she is questioned as to what kind of guy she wants, she will reply with things that are generally correlated with male success, but if she is questioned as to why she is fucking some particular guy who is far from the perfect male specimen, she will not really be able to say, or will make something up as a backward rationalization.

Absolutely on-point.

In my understanding, to succeed generally as a man in the sexual marketplace, you have to be exceptional in some attribute. This is what gets women interested, and then your frame control is what secures her trust that she has made the right choice.

Yes.

A large part of why seduction works is because it trains up excellence in a man in a number of categories like appearance, conversational abilities, social savvy, leadership, confidence, et cetera. Guys will attribute their success to their game, and the game does play a role, but game really is a vehicle for conveying the various forms of excellence they have developed.

I would also say... you either want to be exceptional in one attribute and above average in a few others, or exceptional in several if you are average/below average in others. When you get guys who are exceptional in just a single way but average/below average in others, that's where you get very sporadic results.

e.g., the guy who's a talented drummer in a big rock band, but he's shy and awkward around women and doesn't really know how to do anything else but drum. He'll still get laid, but it won't be with top shelf talent. He'll be outcompeted by other guys who are maybe not as highly exceptional in any one trait as him, but have a higher overall 'exceptional quality' sum total when you add their various stronger qualities together. The drummer needs to bring up some of his other qualities if he wants to raise the quality of the girls he gets.

For many animals, females don't choose, they simply make themselves available in a competitive environment. I don't believe things have changed all that much for humans.

Yes, completely.

It's fascinating to look at how people choose mates. If you ask people how they found their last boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife, it's almost always someone from work, someone from school, someone met through friends, etc.

Then you ask, "How many acceptable, available mate prospects did this person likely have access to via these circles? 10-15 tops maybe? That's the pool he/she had to choose from. What are the odds that out of 10-15 prospective mates one or more of them is PERFECT for you? Probably not high at all. Which means people are not choosing ideal mates... they are choosing the best mates they have available."

For a while I thought online might change that. But the selection criteria online are infinitely fewer and infinitely shallower than social circle (how most folks meet), to the point I don't think the larger quantity of prospective mates can make up for the lack of good evaluation criteria... so you end up with people meeting via online who are even more "best available" rather than "perfect choice."

Women... you kinda feel bad for them. They can try to navigate around and put themselves in opportunities to try to meet the men they want.

But ultimately all they can do is choose from the men who approach them.

The main thing that I think has created the most anxiety for women recently is that male success is quite hard to evaluate these days (and is certainly not evaluated for them) and muddled by a lot of different messages. A guy can be a complete loser and she may either not know or find him lauded by society based on some manufactured new standards of what men should be - or she might be instinctively attracted to some guy that society attacks left and right and portrays as a loser.

Yes, it's part of the ballooning complexity of mating in a complex society.

There are so many mixed messages and unreliable signals being beamed at everyone, women included. A lot of it is being done for social cohesiveness reasons (i.e., it is done to attempt to hold fraying/patchwork societies together)... some of it may be done for other reasons I'll leave it to other men to speculate on.

Depending on how susceptible to influence she is, a woman may buy a lot of this stuff hook, line, and sinker and end up making decisions that are bad for her personally but are in service to various social agendas before she wakes up to it... if she ever does. Other women are wise to it from the get-go and can avoid getting sucked too far in (for a guy with daughters, or any children, one of the number one things you can do for them is helping them understand how hard everyone and everything in society is trying to influence them, and that many of the things they're being influenced to do are not necessarily in their own best interests).

Between all these factors and confusions, a man has a lot of space to define himself as attractive to women, especially if he has the frame control that allows him to take a small amount of curiosity or interest and turn it into seductive success. He has the advantage that women are followers by nature who are surrounded by males who are both ignorant of women's nature and afraid to take control of their interactions with them. The seducer is just another prototype of nature - one of many, each competing with its own measure of success, and receiving female attention accordingly.

Fantastic!

Chase

 

[Starboy]

@Chase would you advise that beginner level guys try to calculate their smv to understand what kind of women they could realistically/reliably land? Or is that a limiting mindset to have to think that they can only get what they percieve their smv to be which is always a subjective matter among women? Cuz there's always the guys who aren't that attractive,but still land with beautiful girls (including you at the start).

I've been complimented on my looks by plenty of women and even some coaches so i'm pretty certain i'm not on the lower end of the dating totem pole. But I have no idea if i'm aiming too high for my current level of fundamentals and game.

A guy who's a 3 can make himself a 6 or a 7 with a little work, and go higher with a lot of work. Just imagine the 3 guy after he loses his beer belly, puts on a little muscle, starts dressing cool, corrects his posture, gets a cool hairstyle, rocks cool facial hair, gets some voice training, learns to make eye contact, and becomes interesting and self-assured. That guy is not a 3 anymore. Now he's a 7 or an 8.

Based on this criteria minus the self assuredness and fashion sense handled i'm maybe around 7 best case scenario. But I don't feel like a 7 and idk what a 7 girl would look like.

 

[trashKENNUT]

@Chase

God damn.
My writing, I look idiotic here.

I look way off than I should. This reminds me of an old email where you said you are not as sure if it is my way of writing or language or culture.

My original message
Why men are no longer "high value", is because men are no longer becoming the asset of dating game. He becomes an asset of marriage. An asset of the society at large now, or to be specific, the tribe at hand, which is her family.

So his value seemingly is high, but he is actually not. He no longer is an asset. He is a function.

When a men is single, he is an asset.
When a men is married, he is a function.
When a women is below 25, she's an asset.
When she gets pregnant, the comments changes.

Real life countless case observation study on Asset vs Function, and transition:

"She's a slut." - TikTok Muslims
*Talks about converting to Islam*

"Oh marry me." - TikTok Muslims
"You are most beautiful girl." - TikTok Muslims

.......


Also, There's an analogy by an unknown:
"Having Money in Singapore is like jail with money".

Foreigners love Singapore. Foreigners love Malaysia. Foreigners love Thailand, but my kids aren't going to be raised there. - they say.

p.s:

Oh man, fuck. I know why Americans and the world are so dumbfounded by their fellow citizens turning cult. It seems like Asia is heading West and West is heading Asia.

And their parallel universe are coming together with them.

z@c+

Guys, pray for me,
whatever method you do. I hope I can help uncover, and solve this.

Give me some time Lord of Heavens. Fuck, what an epiphany just by a post that got took differently.

 

[Skills]

@ZacAdam,



Did you mean married men exit the dating market?

If you meant marriage affecting a man's value to other women... the effect is generally the opposite: it raises his value.

We just had a good conversation on it the other day here:

Married Game

SOME OBSERVATIONS SO FAR The lie of the land 1. Being married need not be an obstacle to flirtation, interest or getting a first date, whether in social circle or by cold approach. Women can sometimes be very unfussed about the man being married. In fact, men who are known to be "taken" have...

www.skilledseducer.com

Some women exclusively date married men. I knew a chick who from about age 18 to 25 wouldn't sleep with a guy unless he was married with children. She said she felt like unmarried men were little boys.

On some other forums I've been on in the past we've spoken about how wedding rings often serve as a big attractor to women. Numerous philandering seducers have talked about their wedding rings helping them pick women up (sometimes they even get opened on them). I recall a divorced guy years ago who kept wearing his wedding ring because he had better results with girls with it on. When they'd ask him about it he'd just say he was "recently divorced but still in the process of moving on", lol. Women went nuts for it.

It makes sense when you think about women's biggest concern when it comes to mates... "Is this guy LEGITIMATELY worth mating with or is he just good at faking it?"

Marriage says "some woman spent years evaluating this guy and decided after all that to let him wife her and probably put children in her." If the guy is otherwise attractive to a woman, and then he's married on top of that, it sort of serves like if you were thinking about buying a used Mercedes, but were trying to figure out if it was really as good as the sales guy said or if maybe it might have hidden problems... then you checked the paperwork and saw the car was certified as in tip-top shape by an official Mercedes-Benz dealer. Sets your mind at ease and removes many objections to selecting this car.


@Will_V,

Great analysis here. I loved this post.



Absolutely on-point.



Yes.

A large part of why seduction works is because it trains up excellence in a man in a number of categories like appearance, conversational abilities, social savvy, leadership, confidence, et cetera. Guys will attribute their success to their game, and the game does play a role, but game really is a vehicle for conveying the various forms of excellence they have developed.

I would also say... you either want to be exceptional in one attribute and above average in a few others, or exceptional in several if you are average/below average in others. When you get guys who are exceptional in just a single way but average/below average in others, that's where you get very sporadic results.

e.g., the guy who's a talented drummer in a big rock band, but he's shy and awkward around women and doesn't really know how to do anything else but drum. He'll still get laid, but it won't be with top shelf talent. He'll be outcompeted by other guys who are maybe not as highly exceptional in any one trait as him, but have a higher overall 'exceptional quality' sum total when you add their various stronger qualities together. The drummer needs to bring up some of his other qualities if he wants to raise the quality of the girls he gets.



Yes, completely.

It's fascinating to look at how people choose mates. If you ask people how they found their last boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife, it's almost always someone from work, someone from school, someone met through friends, etc.

Then you ask, "How many acceptable, available mate prospects did this person likely have access to via these circles? 10-15 tops maybe? That's the pool he/she had to choose from. What are the odds that out of 10-15 prospective mates one or more of them is PERFECT for you? Probably not high at all. Which means people are not choosing ideal mates... they are choosing the best mates they have available."

For a while I thought online might change that. But the selection criteria online are infinitely fewer and infinitely shallower than social circle (how most folks meet), to the point I don't think the larger quantity of prospective mates can make up for the lack of good evaluation criteria... so you end up with people meeting via online who are even more "best available" rather than "perfect choice."

Women... you kinda feel bad for them. They can try to navigate around and put themselves in opportunities to try to meet the men they want.

But ultimately all they can do is choose from the men who approach them.



Yes, it's part of the ballooning complexity of mating in a complex society.

There are so many mixed messages and unreliable signals being beamed at everyone, women included. A lot of it is being done for social cohesiveness reasons (i.e., it is done to attempt to hold fraying/patchwork societies together)... some of it may be done for other reasons I'll leave it to other men to speculate on.

Depending on how susceptible to influence she is, a woman may buy a lot of this stuff hook, line, and sinker and end up making decisions that are bad for her personally but are in service to various social agendas before she wakes up to it... if she ever does. Other women are wise to it from the get-go and can avoid getting sucked too far in (for a guy with daughters, or any children, one of the number one things you can do for them is helping them understand how hard everyone and everything in society is trying to influence them, and that many of the things they're being influenced to do are not necessarily in their own best interests).



Fantastic!

Chase

I have always wear a wedding type band when I am gaming... 2 reasons:

- If the girl tell me she is married and flashes her wedding ring, I say awesome me too and flash my fake one... that Lowers her bitch shield I continue the seduction sometimes it works...

- if she ask me "are you married?" It's an ioi

 

[Troy]

I have always wear a wedding type band when I am gaming... 2 reasons:

- If the girl tell me she is married and flashes her wedding ring, I say awesome me too and flash my fake one... that Lowers her bitch shield I continue the seduction sometimes it works...

- if she ask me "are you married?" It's an ioi

Lol I will be borrowing this.

Why?

Women everywhere think I am a married man just by the way I dress and carry myself in public. I might as well play along with the frame. 2 weeks ago I was in a jewelry store looking to buy some chains. And the girl who assisted me, I decided to ask her out. Her response was

Girl: (looking at my hand) I bet a guy like you already has a wife at home waiting for you.

Even at work, when I come in well dressed, the way I speak as well. Ladies keep saying "you look nice Troy. Are you single?" or "Looking good Troy. Are you married?"

Usually I respond "I am currently dating" or "Are you making an offer to be my girl?". They usually respond calmly to the first and more flirty towards the second answer I give.

Lol I am going ring shopping soon to play around with this lol

 

[Skills]

Lol I will be borrowing this.

Why?

Women everywhere think I am a married man just by the way I dress and carry myself in public. I might as well play along with the frame. 2 weeks ago I was in a jewelry store looking to buy some chains. And the girl who assisted me, I decided to ask her out. Her response was

Girl: (looking at my hand) I bet a guy like you already has a wife at home waiting for you.

Even at work, when I come in well dressed, the way I speak as well. Ladies keep saying "you look nice Troy. Are you single?" or "Looking good Troy. Are you married?"

Usually I respond "I am currently dating" or "Are you making an offer to be my girl?". They usually respond calmly to the first and more flirty towards the second answer I give.

Lol I am going ring shopping soon to play around with this lol

Well I discovered this accidentally I usually wear rings as accessories, my style..

 

[kestwanye77]

What makes you think they are rare?

Because usually that implies that the said guy in question to turnes the interaction around on its head. My best guess is hes using game. And most guys dont have alot of it.

Nope. You’re just letting confirmation bias get the best of you

I dont think i am honestly

 

[kestwanye77]

Women... you kinda feel bad for them.

I dont. But then again they barely care about our struggles for dating so... I guess it doesnt really matter.

They can try to navigate around and put themselves in opportunities to try to meet the men they want.

But ultimately all they can do is choose from the men who approach them.

Well thats not true Chase. Women can approach themselves. They choose not to.

 

[ulrich]

Because usually that implies that the said guy in question to turnes the interaction around on its head. My best guess is hes using game. And most guys dont have alot of it.

Not most, but TONS of guys have charisma.
Charisma gets you those results and it's not exactly a superpower.

I dont. But then again they barely care about our struggles for dating so... I guess it doesnt really matter.

You don't seem to care either for women's struggles. Why should they?

We are telling you that women are constantly disappointed by the lack of quality mates, they need to take care much more for their reputations and that sex is a riskier activity for them than it is for men.... and you only reply that those are dumb concerns or not really important.

You want women to care about your troubles, but you don't care about theirs.
See the problem here?

Well thats not true Chase. Women can approach themselves. They choose not to.

Yeah suuuuuuure...

Meg, are you asking in this day and age, when the CEO of Xerox is a woman, when the president of Brazil is a woman, even Rosie O'Donnell is a woman, whether it's appropriate for a girl to ask a boy out on a date? Of course it's appropriate! It's also sad and desperate and I would never do it, but you're not me, are you sweetie?

- Lois

 

[kestwanye77]

Not most, but TONS of guys have charisma.
Charisma gets you those results and it's not exactly a superpower.

There's a shock. I never knew most men had this. The ones I see how some but not warranting of any results.

You don't seem to care either for women's struggles. Why should they?

We are telling you that women are constantly disappointed by the lack of quality mates, they need to take care much more for their reputations and that sex is a riskier activity for them than it is for men.... and you only reply that those are dumb concerns or not really important.

You want women to care about your troubles, but you don't care about theirs.
See the problem here?

Well not exactly.

Women being less empathic about my dating struggles didnt result from me suddenly not caring. That was already a thing.

I dont really expect women to care my problems as a man because .....why would they? They dont wanna hear it unless the woman in question already has a strong obligation to you. And you certainly arent going to be telling this information to women you want to date so your back at square one.

Women being completely oblivious to male dating struggles has almsot never hindered their dating success.

Yeah suuuuuuure...

Meg, are you asking in this day and age, when the CEO of Xerox is a woman, when the president of Brazil is a woman, even Rosie O'Donnell is a woman, whether it's appropriate for a girl to ask a boy out on a date? Of course it's appropriate! It's also sad and desperate and I would never do it, but you're not me, are you sweetie?​

Awww here we go. Now we are supposed to believe that women cant approach? Because those very same women who claim those rules will break it for an attractive enough guy.

There is documentary that was made many years back(early 2000s I believe) of Dennis Rodman where women were approaching him all night.

Women can approach. They choose not to because of ego.

 

[ulrich]

There is documentary that was made many years back(early 2000s I believe) of Dennis Rodman where women were approaching him all night.

Women can approach. They choose not to because of ego.

Do Not Compare Yourself to Women

"Women have it easier." Well sure, in many ways they do. But YOU are not in competition with women. There is a thing I have seen online (not so much in real life, but perhaps I'm not socializing with the right guys for it in real life) where guys complain about how easy women have it or how much...

www.girlschase.com

 

[climbingup]

It seems we are arguing again

 

[Will_V]

Guys will attribute their success to their game, and the game does play a role, but game really is a vehicle for conveying the various forms of excellence they have developed.

Yes, I can see how this ties into your emphasis on fundamentals, which in turn is usually a result of, at a minimum, social excellence.

I would also say... you either want to be exceptional in one attribute and above average in a few others, or exceptional in several if you are average/below average in others. When you get guys who are exceptional in just a single way but average/below average in others, that's where you get very sporadic results.

e.g., the guy who's a talented drummer in a big rock band, but he's shy and awkward around women and doesn't really know how to do anything else but drum. He'll still get laid, but it won't be with top shelf talent. He'll be outcompeted by other guys who are maybe not as highly exceptional in any one trait as him, but have a higher overall 'exceptional quality' sum total when you add their various stronger qualities together. The drummer needs to bring up some of his other qualities if he wants to raise the quality of the girls he gets.

Good point.

Yes, completely.

It's fascinating to look at how people choose mates. If you ask people how they found their last boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife, it's almost always someone from work, someone from school, someone met through friends, etc.

Then you ask, "How many acceptable, available mate prospects did this person likely have access to via these circles? 10-15 tops maybe? That's the pool he/she had to choose from. What are the odds that out of 10-15 prospective mates one or more of them is PERFECT for you? Probably not high at all. Which means people are not choosing ideal mates... they are choosing the best mates they have available."

For a while I thought online might change that. But the selection criteria online are infinitely fewer and infinitely shallower than social circle (how most folks meet), to the point I don't think the larger quantity of prospective mates can make up for the lack of good evaluation criteria... so you end up with people meeting via online who are even more "best available" rather than "perfect choice."

Interesting, it's very true that online dating makes it very hard for women evaluate someone's true character. I completely agree with your general perspective on online dating (though I've never done it myself). But it does seem to me that for a woman it would be a very difficult tool to use effectively.

(for a guy with daughters, or any children, one of the number one things you can do for them is helping them understand how hard everyone and everything in society is trying to influence them, and that many of the things they're being influenced to do are not necessarily in their own best interests).

This is something I had a lot of growing up, and I value it immensely. I think if more parents did this, the common sense that is always trying to push through in people's decisions (both men and women) would have a much easier time.

By the way, shout out to your mouse utopia article, it's a must read for anyone wanting to delve into how seduction fits into the grand scheme of things at a primitive level. Read it a couple of times and enjoyed it very much, made me think a lot about this topic.

 

[Chase]

@Starboy,

@Chase would you advise that beginner level guys try to calculate their smv to understand what kind of women they could realistically/reliably land? Or is that a limiting mindset to have to think that they can only get what they percieve their smv to be which is always a subjective matter among women? Cuz there's always the guys who aren't that attractive,but still land with beautiful girls (including you at the start).

I've been complimented on my looks by plenty of women and even some coaches so i'm pretty certain i'm not on the lower end of the dating totem pole. But I have no idea if i'm aiming too high for my current level of fundamentals and game.

No, I wouldn't recommend that at all.

Just approach, and you will naturally adjust yourself to approach the girls you can get at the level you're at based on the feedback you get from them. You'll start to notice certain kinds of girls are more responsive to you than others, then you'll start to like those girls more and ignore the ones who aren't as responsive. And you'll achieve a kind of stability/predictability in the girls you approach.

Then as you improve at some point you may realize you've gotten better and never approach the REALLY hot girls, so you decide to try approaching some of them and maybe find out you can get them now. So slowly you upgrade your targeting. Or you might have your niche you approach, then accidentally interact with some girls you learned weren't worth approaching in the past but find out now they're much more responsive to you, so you expand your targeting.

This all happens quite naturally. Whenever I've taken out guys who were used to opening on their own, it's always been interesting to observe which women they beeline toward and which they ignore. Guys settle into their niches of women they target and women who might as well not exist around them.


@ZacAdam,

Oh okay. So you're talking about commitment points... once a man has fully committed, the woman he's committed to takes him for granted, and vice versa.

Yes, that is definitely often the case.

Though just keep in mind a man can fully commit even before marriage... and, likewise, just because a man has given marriage does not necessarily mean he's fully committed.

One must never think too simplistically about these things


@kestwanye77,

I dont. But then again they barely care about our struggles for dating so... I guess it doesnt really matter.

It's all part of the journey.

Empathy toward someone else's struggle is always either a function of familiarity or power.

If you're not in a position yet where you hold real power over women, and you haven't had many great and positive experiences with women yet, it will be hard to feel empathy.

It will come, with time, power, and positive experience.

Well thats not true Chase. Women can approach themselves. They choose not to.

Do you really believe this? That women are just the same as men and expectations for women should be the same as for men?

If you believe it... that you are just like a woman, and a woman is just like you... then why is it you lack empathy for women, who are exactly the same as you?

I suspect you're giving too much weight to women's words. "But women SAY they want this..." you will say.

Of course they will. Women will say they want the world if you give them the chance to say it. Yet they will snuggle up tightly with the man who gives them nothing more than soft feelings and hard orgasms. You will see this as you gain experience with women. Their words will confuse you less and less, as you learn to listen to them less and less, and instead listen to what their actions say.

Though I should also address this I suppose:

Women can approach. They choose not to because of ego.

Why do you think that among ducks, penguins, ostriches, peacocks, elephants, gorillas, lions, frogs, turtles, crocodiles, sharks, dolphins, and all the other animals that walk, crawl, swim, and fly the males approach the females, and the females receive their approaches?

Do you think there could be an... evolutionary reason for this, one that overrides any modern considerations for social justice?

Adherents of modern Western 'equality/equity' ideology are always trying to compel females to act like males, and males like females.

Radical feminism doesn't work, brother (you may not even realize that's where this mindset of yours comes from... but that's the genesis of all this 'total equality among the sexes' claptrap). It's against nature. You can go out and wave the equality fist flag all you want, but nature still abides. Like all ideologies against nature, social justice hits an impassable wall and fails.

Some fights are worth fighting. Fighting with all your strength and will against the entirety of nature tends not to be one of them.

Getting approached by women does sometimes happen. It is not the norm though (even for celebrities).


@Will_V,

This is something I had a lot of growing up, and I value it immensely. I think if more parents did this, the common sense that is always trying to push through in people's decisions (both men and women) would have a much easier time.

Those sound like great parents then!

My folks never talked to me about it. But they bought me books on it... on how people can seek to manipulate, on media manipulation, and other such topics (among many other kinds of books they got me). I'm forever grateful they did.

A lot of guys buy the stuff they're having pushed on them without even questioning, because they don't realize it is something they can and should question. Then you see how hard it is for them when they finally start waking up.

There's no need to go through that process if the parents are aware enough to make sure their children are aware. There's not a tradition of this, teaching children to be aware of manipulation and influence, but we haven't ever had this condition before, where people are being bombarded 24/7 with screens and rants and diatribes and social media posturing that they can barely pull themselves away from. Though I suppose it has always been the case that societies have had their ways of radicalizing their inhabitants to certain fanatical or unrealistic beliefs...

Chase

 

[trashKENNUT]

@ZacAdam,

Oh okay. So you're talking about commitment points... once a man has fully committed, the woman he's committed to takes him for granted, and vice versa.

Yes, that is definitely often the case.

Though just keep in mind a man can fully commit even before marriage... and, likewise, just because a man has given marriage does not necessarily mean he's fully committed.

One must never think too simplistically about these things

I definitely miss the first part and looked idiotic on my first message.

I end my post quickly here.

What Chase is trying to say: The Individual
What Zac is trying to say:

- the Mechanisms/policies in place
- what the public values
- actual value (my comment on why Singapore/Malaysia/Thailand/Asia is enticing to foreigners but they will never live here unless they are super rich)

In dating terms, Men can think of himself as high value all he wants.
He is tied to his wealth and children and wife and the government, when marriage enters.

This is where the next cultural warfare will be. Unlike the left and right, we actually going to be peaceful about it. Lolx.

It's funny because I was watching Tim Pool. Yesterday, he argued with a man who has an establishment worldview but self aware of the left lunacy.

I'm going to go into a lot of arguments with GC members in the foreseeable future, and this fundamental worldview is, the root of it.

Amazing. Both you and I are talking about the same topic but for some reason, I just can't reach you. The writing is one problem.

z@c+

 

[Chase]

I definitely miss the first part and looked idiotic on my first message.

I end my post quickly here.

What Chase is trying to say: The Individual
What Zac is trying to say:

- the Mechanisms/policies in place
- what the public values
- actual value (my comment on why Singapore/Malaysia/Thailand/Asia is enticing to foreigners but they will never live here unless they are super rich)

In dating terms, Men can think of himself as high value all he wants.
He is tied to his wealth and children and wife and the government, when marriage enters.

All right, well I don't know what you mean then, Zac.

You need to say what mechanisms you are talking about and provide examples.

I have spent a good amount of time in Asia and IME married older men typically dominate everything and it is the young unmarried men of low stature and limited utility to the society -- same as in the West. In addition, generally speaking, older men's value tends to get called into question in society if they're not married; e.g., "Why isn't he married? What's wrong with him? What is he hiding?"

I don't think you're talking about social utility / productive output / mark on the world either. I doubt you're saying "Jeff Bezos was valuable to society while he was a hedge fund manager. But then when he married and started Amazon and launched a company that changed distribution and retail forever, he was valueless to society, because he was married." Every study on married men finds them more productive than single men.

Without context or examples, people can only infer what you are saying by passing it through their own lenses, in which case they are likely to arrive at conclusions different from what you intend if the lens you're putting things through is sufficiently different from their own.

Chase

 

[Alpha13SC]

Altough @Chase nailed it, I ll give my own words.

Awww here we go. Now we are supposed to believe that women cant approach? Because those very same women who claim those rules will break it for an attractive enough guy.

There is documentary that was made many years back(early 2000s I believe) of Dennis Rodman where women were approaching him all night.

Women can approach. They choose not to because of ego.

Of course they can approach. Physically speaking. But it's not in their nature to do that. They re risk averse. Also they don't have balls. You should have them. It's your job. And you should assume it.

I sense some frustration from your side. But the reality is that you're not equal to women. You, as a man, you're much more stronger. And they're much more vulnerable. That equality pushed by feminism or whatever women said at one point is an illusion. I ve heard all kind of nonsense from women and ignore them with full confidence. Didn't you heard from a women that she hate a man? Or she doesn't want to hear from him ever again? That he is a stupid moron and so on? And next day she s fucking him?

Come on. Seems like you consume some red pill content. The old story.

I ve been approach by women. On street, and at parties. They risk it. But it the end, she expect you to take the active role, 'cuz you penetrate her, not her with a fuckin' strap on tingling your ass. You can see it as a even more bold move to make herself available and approachable.

Alpha13SC

 

[kestwanye77]

Do you really believe this?

Yes I do

That women are just the same as men and expectations for women should be the same as for men?

No. Im in the minority on this opinion. I dont expect them to approach. But i dont wanna a hear sob story of how womens options are limited if they havent taken mnay steps to increase it.

If you believe it... that you are just like a woman, and a woman is just like you... then why is it you lack empathy for women, who are exactly the same as you?

Because in this scenario they could fix a certain problem by taking more risks. If women have such a quality problem they would fix it by approaching.

The part that makes it funny is that women stand a much higher chance of getting what they want from approaching.

The guy is far more likely to say yes, feels more attraction because approaching is bold in itself, she can easily pick the guy she saw across the room as attractive who never approached.

Why do you think that among ducks, penguins, ostriches, peacocks, elephants, gorillas, lions, frogs, turtles, crocodiles, sharks, dolphins, and all the other animals that walk, crawl, swim, and fly the males approach the females, and the females receive their approaches?

Do you think there could be an... evolutionary reason for this, one that overrides any modern considerations for social justice?

Adherents of modern Western 'equality/equity' ideology are always trying to compel females to act like males, and males like females.

You are right. Females are usually risk adverse. But when it comes to a complicated species like humans the roles we can play are open to alot of exceptions.

The whole point if this site was to get women to chase you, asking you for relations, and get her investing more in you than her.

That doesnt sound like the stereotypical way most mammals operate. But we got plenty of seducers on this site who vouch for this material working.

You and the other guys spent years making a system that works out for us in the long run to help ourselves navigate around women.

So what... im supposed to not assume women arent capable of figuring out a system that works for them?

Is it the case that women arent smart enough to figure it out? Or is it the case that women have too much pride? Its probably the latter.

And if it is the second case then they will suffer for it. Its part of life. If they wanna take less risks than others than they will end up with less oportunities. And this is not even a woman compared to a man thing. Women will pass them up that actually had enough guts to approach.

And hell I met a decent amount of women who were like this. They were willing to approach and got the men they wanted from it. But the women who still had way less success than they did couldnt replicate ir because they could get over the fact of approaching.

You also are not taking into account the landscape by a wide margin Chase. Most of the time when men are approached by women now...most of the people dont see the women as desperate now. They see it as gutsy and admirable. More than likely due to how aware humans over themselves im comparison to animals.

Guys are exhausted at always having to make the first move and most girls wish they could push themselves to approach that one guy she could approach at work. And no this is not coming from just a social media standpoint. You can see this mindset in any nightclub venue.

Radical feminism doesn't work, brother (you may not even realize that's where this mindset of yours comes from... but that's the genesis of all this 'total equality among the sexes' claptrap).

Maybe. But I just because I might want equality for both sexes doesnt mean I think women should propose to their husbands and fight in wars. This is just a golden opportunity womem arent taking care of.

It would be like if I was offered a job at a prestigious company by a friend and I didnt put any effort into applying.

It's against nature. You can go out and wave the equality fist flag all you want, but nature still abides. Like all ideologies against nature, social justice hits an impassable wall and fails.

Really? 100 percent of the time? So are the relationships where the women approached or asked a guy to marry her doomed to fail?

Where would anybody be if they wasnt willing to take any risks at all? This is a fact if life in general. Women take the risk when they pick the guy. Luckily nature helps women who dont want to take more risks but the ones who are willing to take more risks are likely to get what they want.

Some fights are worth fighting. Fighting with all your strength and will against the entirety of nature tends not to be one of them.

Well I told the guy before you that I dont women to approach. I dont expect that to change ever. Hell i wont waste my breath telling them too. I was just highlighting that the problem of there seemingly limited options is a problem they will continue to have because of ego.

 

[climbingup]

Yes I do



No. Im in the minority on this opinion. I dont expect them to approach. But i dont wanna a hear sob story of how womens options are limited if they havent taken mnay steps to increase it.



Because in this scenario they could fix a certain problem by taking more risks. If women have such a quality problem they would fix it by approaching.

The part that makes it funny is that women stand a much higher chance of getting what they want from approaching.

The guy is far more likely to say yes, feels more attraction because approaching is bold in itself, she can easily pick the guy she saw across the room as attractive who never approached.

You are right. Females are usually risk adverse. But when it comes to a complicated species like humans the roles we can play are open to alot of exceptions.

The whole point if this site was to get women to chase you, asking you for relations, and get her investing more in you than her.

That doesnt sound like the stereotypical way most mammals operate. But we got plenty of seducers on this site who vouch for this material working.

You and the other guys spent years making a system that works out for us in the long run to help ourselves navigate around women.

So what... im supposed to not assume women arent capable of figuring out a system that works for them?

Is it the case that women arent smart enough to figure it out? Or is it the case that women have too much pride? Its probably the latter.

And if it is the second case then they will suffer for it. Its part of life. If they wanna take less risks than others than they will end up with less oportunities. And this is not even a woman compared to a man thing. Women will pass them up that actually had enough guts to approach.

And hell I met a decent amount of women who were like this. They were willing to approach and got the men they wanted from it. But the women who still had way less success than they did couldnt replicate ir because they could get over the fact of approaching.

You also are not taking into account the landscape by a wide margin Chase. Most of the time when men are approached by women now...most of the people dont see the women as desperate now. They see it as gutsy and admirable. More than likely due to how aware humans over themselves im comparison to animals.

Guys are exhausted at always having to make the first move and most girls wish they could push themselves to approach that one guy she could approach at work. And no this is not coming from just a social media standpoint. You can see this mindset in any nightclub venue.





Maybe. But I just because I might want equality for both sexes doesnt mean I think women should propose to their husbands and fight in wars. This is just a golden opportunity womem arent taking care of.

It would be like if I was offered a job at a prestigious company by a friend and I didnt put any effort into applying.




Really? 100 percent of the time? So are the relationships where the women approached or asked a guy to marry her doomed to fail?

Where would anybody be if they wasnt willing to take any risks at all? This is a fact if life in general. Women take the risk when they pick the guy. Luckily nature helps women who dont want to take more risks but the ones who are willing to take more risks are likely to get what they want.



Well I told the guy before you that I dont women to approach. I dont expect that to change ever. Hell i wont waste my breath telling them too. I was just highlighting that the problem of there seemingly limited options is a problem they will continue to have because of ego.

The part where you said "Guys are exhausted at always having to make the first move.....". Well that's what makes them average. If you learn how to talk to girls and seduce them in a smooth manner, you'll automatically be above average and have a great sex life.

 

[Will_V]

Those sound like great parents then!

I think I'm very fortunate. My family didn't stay together, but that didn't stop them from having a very positive effect on my life before and after. They did a great job all the way, getting some things right that most parents don't even consider.

Yet it seems to me that the development of a well-rounded person necessarily involves a lot of pain and confusion regardless. Maybe it's in the difference between the explanation of things and seeing them for yourself. What makes that part of life come to the most positive outcome, where someone not only sees things, not only perceives them, but perceives them in a way that results in a much more functional and constructive personality, is difficult to say.

My folks never talked to me about it. But they bought me books on it... on how people can seek to manipulate, on media manipulation, and other such topics (among many other kinds of books they got me). I'm forever grateful they did.

Same. I also think one of the best influences on my life was the library of 'golden era' science fiction that my father collected. Back then science fiction included the possibility of a non-dystopian future, with made it especially constructive to the imagination, and relevant to the past and the present as well.

A lot of guys buy the stuff they're having pushed on them without even questioning, because they don't realize it is something they can and should question. Then you see how hard it is for them when they finally start waking up.

Absolutely. Although I believe that there is still a gulf between the knowledge of something and the experiental integration of it, within which there is still a disorienting realization that has to occur, that could have positive or negative effects.

There's no need to go through that process if the parents are aware enough to make sure their children are aware. There's not a tradition of this, teaching children to be aware of manipulation and influence, but we haven't ever had this condition before, where people are being bombarded 24/7 with screens and rants and diatribes and social media posturing that they can barely pull themselves away from. Though I suppose it has always been the case that societies have had their ways of radicalizing their inhabitants to certain fanatical or unrealistic beliefs...

Chase

I've wondered to what extent the striving for power over the individual that a society has is good and necessary. How much is the human psyche built for it? That's probably a different conversation, but I'll say that I think the social manipulation that used to occur was based more in something functional - rites, religions, cultural and tribal strengthening, that sort of thing - and today it threatens to be a case of a society that is sort of just consuming itself and its own foundations. Maybe that's the way it always was, in cycles, but today we have infinitely more capability to perpetuate something entirely disfunctional, maybe long enough to even be self-destructive.

In any case, the individual is always the level at which real positive changes occur, both in the short term and the evolutionary term, and that definitely hasn't changed.