NealIRC said:
... So your info is still useless to me.
Neal, I'm exercising
incredible patience in breaking all this down for you because I only wish I could go back in time 20 years and straighten myself out from thinking in ways not entirely unlike the way you're thinking. Ways that cost me
years of success with women.
Years of never getting to see a girl's pussy wet because she wanted my dick in it.
I have lamented not having a time machine. But but you're making me question whether time travel would even do me any good. I could talk and talk at the younger me until I'm blue in the face and he would have done exactly what you're doing: rejecting everything I'm trying to show you.
NealIRC said:
Well, I'm obviously into the "real proof of attraction" from women that causes men to women ask for sex, or ask for contact info. ...
I'm going to assume from your prior position that you meant to say "that causes women to ask men for sex, or ask for contact info."
Do you want a woman to ask you for sex? There's a way to do it, but it's not what you're thinking.
You still need to do the approaching. And getting contact info. And setting up a date. And inviting her home. But here's how you do it. Do all of that, escalate, get her clothes off, and
tease the fuck out of her. Touch, kiss, lick her body and keep approaching her erogenous zones but then go back away from them. Later, slap her pussy, rub it, maybe suck on it a bit, but then stop and go back to the rest of her body. Give her little bits of stimulation but then tone it down each time.
If you do this right, she will eventually start
begging you to fuck her. And once sex has already occurred, she may initiate on future occasions, particularly if you were good.
THIS IS THE
ONLY WAY A WOMAN WILL
EVER ASK YOU FOR SEX.
Reason probably goes back to the sexy son hypothesis I've mentioned repeatedly. A man's knowing how to get sex makes him
inherently more attractive. Conversely, a man
she has to ask is totally
unattractive to her because her genes would not spread as far with him since he's obviously clueless and his sons might be, too.
As for a woman asking you for contact info, it's basically the same deal. I've had a woman ask me for my contact info
after I had already gotten hers.
Never before. And while I can't remember it ever happening to me personally, sometimes they might ask you for yours
instead of giving you theirs, after you've asked them. This translates to they want to get rid of you and are never going to call.
The closest they'll come is to
hint that they would enjoy talking to you again. That's your cue to ask for the number. Same with sex. They actually
will hint at what they want. But they will
never ask.
Part of the reason is that asking for these things seriously jeaporadizes their social standing. Also, reasonably attractive women never
need to, because, if you won't make the move,
some other man will.
Neal, you need to understand that you're fighting a losing battle here! Because your theory (she should do all the asking) is
NNNNNNEEEEVVVVEEERRRRRR going to work so long as your competition is not playing by the same rules you are. Just why the fuck would a woman
stick her neck out and face the possibility of Neal rejecting her when she's
already got tons of men courting her who have
removed her social risks completely?
If you could somehow get
every man in the entire world to agree to
NEVER approach a woman, I give it 4 to 6 months before women everywhere would be throwing themselves at us like sluts.
But, Neal,
just how do you propose to get all the men in the world to do this?
NealIRC said:
Right, but the part that I find evil is the part where women blame men if the relationships become boring.
Hm, men go cheat on women when they get bored, but anyway.
Do you generally think of women as being evil?
NealIRC said:
ThePhoenix said:
By and large, women have no idea why they are or are not attracted to particular men.
This is the stuff that fascinates me, does anybody else have any insight to this?
I don't know how well you know your minor, but if you're familiar with artificial neural networks, consider the fact that the node weights are almost always determined via back-propagation or genetic algorithms using a training set. If you were to show a programmer the actual node weight matrix of a trained, working network and ask for an explanation of the individual numbers in that matrix, they couldn't tell you.
But, bottom line, you felt it was unreasonable that women would prefer promiscuous children and therefore promiscuous mates, and I hope I was successful in helping you see why at least unconsciously that is actually not an unreasonable model at all.
NealIRC said:
...her revenge is built up and too high. I got her revenge at me so high that not even I can remove. I even though "what if I were to decrease her attraction to me, then shouldn't that make her less angry at me?" I tried that too and it didn't work. Her revenge won't budge.
Assuming you even did attract her, I've addressed the alleged revenge of women on your later remark, below. But you didn't attract her.
Hate to break it to you, but sending a girl a website with her pictures is
not going to attract her. It coveys
far, far, far too much investment on your part at such an early point and makes you look
extremely needy. When you've
actually attracted some girls -
which you'll know from having had sex with them, - then you'll realize how silly you were for thinking you had ever attracted this one.
NealIRC said:
And the thing about Chicago is so segregated is such that White people almost never do minimum wage jobs in Chicago. Cell phone store sales reps, cashiers, fast food, all Hispanic and Black people working. And so for all the jobs I've had, I'm essentially the only White guy working...
Hahaha, do you know this can actually work to your advantage? Well, it depends on your tastes.
I was at a job for some time that wasn't minimum but was still pretty ghetto. There were
tons of black girls working there, lots of 19 to 25 year olds. Well, you know me and black girls.
Oh, my God, the troubles I went to to
not quit even though I had every reason to from almost the time I started! HAHAHA. I cut my schedule down as much as they would let me, and then started calling in sick all the damn time because I had better things going on elsewhere, but I didn't want to actually quit, as annoying as the job itself was.
One day they got stricter and fired or laid off a ton of people, including many of the younger black girls. I quit about three weeks later.
I owe half my Facebook friend list to the place.
NealIRC said:
I gradated college 5 years ago, and still with my part-time job, $12/hour.
Unless you're doing that job in the interests of freeing up time for a business intended to eventually replace it, or for studies, you need to put more energy into getting a better job.
NealIRC said:
I moved to a large abandoned building, used to be a gum factory. No electricity or running water. But the joy for living for free is immense. Where I sleep at - is 4 buildings that are conjoined, some 4 floors tall, some 8 floors. I sleep in a office room with carpet floor.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that this isn't some kind of demented joke... in which case... I thought my persistence here was a complete waste of time, but it looks like maybe we're onto something!
I think what is happening is that you feel that your living circumstances would make you untouchable to women, so you don't want to try for a woman unless you first have some remarkable evidence of her being attracted - thus your obsession over women approaching you, which indeed would be a remarkable sign, but unfortunately that's because it is never going to happen, as I and others have explained repeatedly.
I suspect this may be your core issue, and I want to address it from three angles:
1. It is extremely damaging to a man's psyche to avoid approaching women or having intimacy with them, no matter what the reason.
Sadly, I spent close to 20 years avoiding women. The first half of that was due to an obsessive devotion to a Dulcinea who inspired me to not look at other women. (At least she made me more ambitious in other ways.) The second half owed to a cocktail of other mostly dumb reasons. One of those was being insecure over my living conditions.
Critically, I had assumed that once all conditions were right and I decided to get approaching women, I'd readily start to improve with practice. Unfortunately,
it wasn't so simple.
The brain is a pattern machine. Close to 20 years of avoiding females programmed in an extremely strong pattern: when Phoenix sees a girl he's attracted to, he avoids her. It's an automatic reaction. It happens without my choice, and even when I know full well the reasons why I had been avoiding females no longer apply (if they ever did.)
Day after day I'd spend a
whole day in a 1.2 million square foot shopping center, exposing me to
thousands of women, and yet come home
without having talked to a single woman. Every time I would intend to, my brain would come up with one inane excuse or another or another. Sometimes more than one. Heck, even in cases where there
were no excuses, I would just find that I magically turned away at the last second and couldn't explain why.
I've gradually started overcoming the approach anxiety, but it has been an excruciatingly difficult battle.
The sad reality is that I did this to myself. It hadn't been nearly so hard before that almost 20 year hiatus.
Neal, please don't underestimate the damage you will do to yourself by in any manner avoiding women or sex. I only wish I had listened to those who tried to tell me that 20 years ago.
2. Use other locations.
You don't need her to know where you live. It's not as easy, but it's quite possible to get a girl to invite you to her place. Or you can take her to some neutral place. Heck, there's a park in my city where you see used condoms on the ground regularly. Check this site or ask questions on here.
By the way, you work but you pay no rent, so I hope you can at least afford some good clothes (except I don't know where you store stuff safely!) You'll need fashion guidance. Again, check this site and/or get someone to help you.
3. Fuck her in the ghetto.
I've lived in and have friends in housing projects. Trust me, plenty babies conceived up in there, and not by IVF!
This is one of those things where your own mental state is more significant than the physical factors. Living in the projects could have minimal impact, or it could ruin you, depending on you.
If you feel worthless or insecure because of where you live, it's going to poison your vibe and you'll find it virtually impossible to hook girls.
If on the other hand you have goals and are confident in them and look at a shit environment as a means to an end, you'll be ok. Women will overlook a lot when a man has a strong character. Yes, you'll lose some, but on the bright side, the ones you
do get, you can be damn sure are
totally into you!
An exec in a penthouse luxury suite actually has it harder than someone in a ghetto in one way. He has to work
really hard to stop the girl from slowing things down because she sees him as a potential financial provider. Whereas if you live in the ghetto, she knows you're not boyfriend material, so she's more liable to go for casual sex.
Now, an
abandoned building is a stretch. I think a guy really good with women could probably make it work some of the time. A female friend of mine (usually their advice can't be trusted, but this one's not bad,) once said, "if you have swag, you could take a girl to a dungeon!"
I doubt you're that good. Pull this off badly and the girl might think you're going to murder her! With that said, a few quick ideas:
- You could pretend it's just some random building as opposed to your home, and make an adventure of it - getting fucked in an abandoned building, wow! (BTW, you do not need a bed for fucking... in fact, the floor has some advantages over a bed, although you may want to toss down something soft and clean.)
- You might even find the odd girl who is fascinated with your bohemian lifestyle. What the hell, it's worth a shot. (I lived briefly in similar conditions, though I was too young to be serious about girls. Actually, no heat and electricity were manageable; what killed it for me was no toilet.)
- Make the visit as brief as possible and get straight down to sex. The longer things draw out, the more likely the lack of running water becomes a problem.
- Are there girls who are used to living in these conditions? Might not be such a big deal to them. (Just be really careful about STIs!)
But I'd urge you to consider at least moving back into a rental in the Hispanic/black neighbourhood. I assume the rent would be cheapest there, so you get some of the cost-saving benefit but you still have heat, electricity, running water and a working toilet, at least most of the time I hope. That's the threshold where it should not be genuinely prohibitive to get girls over even when you're just learning. At the very least, the Hispanic and black girls in your neighbourhood are worth a try, and you know they're used to similar hardships anyway.
Some of the time I spent staying away from girls, I was doing so in part because of insecurity over my living conditions. They weren't nearly as extreme as yours, but I still let it completely stop me from talking to girls.
I regret that greatly, as, in retrospect, my fear was greatly exaggerated and I could've been fucking girls there fairly easily; I had friends living in similarly bad conditions who had no trouble pulling girls home and fucking them.
Seriously, a lot of obstacles are all in our heads.
NealIRC said:
Therefore I have surveyed White people on the Internet - like Reddit Chicago - about what do White people do if they can't find a job? If anyone has any friends with White people that are unemployed. And if anyone knows any White guys whom are married or in relationship with White women whom are unemployed...
This sounds like you are far too obsessed with race. (Haha that sounds funny coming out of a guy that only fancies black girls.)
A long time ago I was half-ways involved in a group conversation among some black women. They were making some references to "the man." (In case you live under a rock, that's a reference to white people in the context of systemic oppression of minorities.) I responded to this by remarking, "I'm gonna have to go find this man and have a talk with him!" To this, they very readily included me in their side of the 'us vs. them.'
Seriously, just do you and don't worry about what some stupid stereotype says.
NealIRC said:
Regarding porn, I Internet on a work or school computer, so my porn viewing has gone down. The only times I look at porn is if I take my laptop to my abandoned building or to a hotspot. Or spend Christmas for a week at my Mom's house.
Ok. But if you're only abstaining out of necessity, I wouldn't be totally sure it's not a problem. If you can go for say 6 months without viewing any porn
even when you have good opportunity to, then I'd think you're probably ok.
NealIRC said:
But my availability of being roommates with a girl I anytime. Anytime I'm willing to move into an apartment with a girl as roommates. ...
You should not restrict yourself to female roommates. It may be harder to get a girl to trust you like that, especially in your case.
You have some distorted concepts of romance and sexuality and I think you're somehow getting off on the idea of having some hot roommate who is super-attracted to you, but whom you don't want to have sex with, but only see naked. You should stick with male roommates until you have your head a little straighter.
NealIRC said:
ThePhoenix said:
Please do not think that women will fuck you out of courtesy.
No, but it's an argument I use
against GirlsChase about on the evils of women...
I'm not quite sure I understand what you're trying to say. Are you saying women are evil because they won't fuck you out of courtesy?
Just so you know, not everything I've told you comes from GirlsChase. A lot is from my own experiences and also from scientific material I've been exposed to elsewhere.
As for GirlsChase, over my life, due to my upbringing and work, I've gotten pretty good at judging the merits of intellecual claims. While I don't necessarily agree with
everything on this site, I'd say that generally the concepts look pretty solid.
NealIRC said:
Or arguments about women not liking sex...
Again, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
Women absolutely do like sex, but at once they also have a biological imperative to get it from men who know how to give it to them. If you're poorly adjusted or otherwise brainwashed by society, you could easily conclude that they don't like sex, even though they actually do.
NealIRC said:
But if this girl is the 1 I see on Facebook, then I could use this opportunity to go spit game to her, and not ask her for her # or so, and then msg her on Facebook.
Great. So now, instead of it seeming like a chance encounter with a cool guy, it's going to seem like she's got a creep stalking her on Facebook.
The only thing you should be using Facebook for in terms of game, is giving youself the chance to reconnect with girls - normally from social circle - that you've already met in real life some time before. I've used it that way on occasion. Or
maybe for incidentally running into girls who know one of your real-life friends. Otherwise, forget Facebook.
NealIRC said:
And so, when the seats in front of her empty, I sat in front of them and go "Hey, are you guys from <the Puerto Rican neighborhood>?" and the younger ones goes yea.
Well, it's good at least you approach girls. And this is an ok way to open them, but then instead of showing sexual intent or doing any effective connecting, you start getting weird...
NealIRC said:
And then I talk and talk about, the gangs of that neighborhood, of her nationality.
How endearing.
(And in case Cacc is right, which I am starting to think he is, I'm being sarcastic. I have already discussed at length in a prior post the use of positive vs. negative aspects of a girl's ethnic community. So I won't repeat myself. It gives me great pleasure to realize you completely ignored my advice. Oops, there goes my sarcasm again...)
NealIRC said:
She didn't ask me for my #, but she did something close to that... She asked what I do all this gang research for and I eventually tell her I put all this information on a website, and she asks me what's the website...
That's about as close to asking you for your # as a polar bear is to taking over the world.
If Cacc is right, you probably don't realize this, but people often ask questions the answers of which they don't even care. There's a good chance she was only asking this in order to be polite or to try to make conversation.
Or maybe you had gotten her genuinely interested in the social cause you were promoting, which doesn't really help you in terms of attracting her sexually.
NealIRC said:
And the pamphlets included erotic literature, so she gonna go home and orgasm to it.
LMAO. Is this a joke?!
I would not call that a reliable strategy. Maybe it works 1 time in 1000. I don't even read most of the shit random strangers give me.
There are means of leading girls to orgasm that will give you much more consistent results.
NealIRC said:
Then the next morning msg'd her on Facebook an image of what she would recognize from the pamphlet followed by a poem.
My brain is dead.
NealIRC said:
Now, the interesting this is, if she did like me, and did wanted me to ask her for her #, and I didn't, then what does it mean. It means she gonna punish me, you know, revenge at me. And she can do that by not "opening" the Facebook msg.
First of all, if she doesn't open the message, it's pobably because either she confuses it as spam, doesn't want strangers on FB, or found you unattractive or creepy.
I don't know where you get this persistent notion that a woman will exact revenge on a man because the man didn't approach/date/fuck her. Disappointment, frustration, loss of interest, sure. But
revenge? I won't deny that there are some psycho women out there, but if you think this is a typical female behaviour, you're getting really carried away.
The withdrawal/avoidance behaviours you interpret as revenge have a much simpler explanation.
Women have an instinctive need to procreate. They entertain approaches from men because they
need men in order to do so. But if you don't smoothly progress towards helping her make babies, or at least
making her body feel like that's what she's doing, she's going to tune you out, because you are of no use to her, the same way you'd tune out a commercial for tampons.
You have become noise.
NealIRC said:
But, from my point of view, it's at least to get her to view my profile, and possibly stalk.
Thanks a lot, Neal. Now I have to clean up the juice I spat at my computer to stop from choking on laughter.
NealIRC said:
I love the idea of having women as orbiters...
Then you'd better start fucking their brains out. The only time I have ever
ever EVER seen or even heard of a woman becoming obsessive over a man, the man either 1. is a major celebrity, or 2. gave the woman
mind-blowing sex. And #2 is a lot easier than #1.
NealIRC said:
Doesn't it make you wonder what would happen if men didn't do it 1st?
Does nobody else ever wonder?
No. It's pretty obvious what would happen. Women would throw themselves at men like horny sluts.
Problem is, you need
all men in the world to co-operate to
never approach women!! You may as well try to start your very own flying pig colony on the moon. Because you have just as much chances of making that happen.
NealIRC said:
Or better yet, does nobody else ever e-x-p-e-r-i-m-e-n-t?
Please do not think for a second that you are experimenting. You are not experimenting. You are
shooting yourself in the foot.
From Wikipedia:
An experiment is a procedure carried out to support, refute, or validate a hypothesis.
If it can be trivially shown that a hypothesis is invalid - as I and others have done repeatedly with yours - then the experiment is
meaningless and
futile because it cannot serve the basic purpose of validating that hypothesis.
It's kind of like trying to do all kinds of experiments designed to prove that the Earth is flat.
Another way of looking at it is that, since in all the time you've been doing these "experiments" you
haven't gotten laid once, the experiments have already succeeded at
refuting your hypothesis, and therefore
serve no further purpose.