Any success stories of asking a girl late?

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lostnumber

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Hector Castillo said:
This is a joke, right?
Sadly I dont think so. He's been on here asking weird questions for months, and posted a picture of himself where he clearly looks like an uncalibrated auistic guy.

Neal buddy, you clearly have no idea how this social stuff works. I feel bad for you. I'm on the autistic spectrum myself and none of this social stuff came naturally to me when I was younger.

The difference is, I wanted to learn from the people who had it all figured out, and I actively put in the work to do so. You have some crazy fantasy world constructed in your head that doesn't correspond to reality.

Let me lay out what is really going on here:
- None of these girls are attracted to you
- None of them are upset that you aren't pursuing them. In reality they are upset that you are talking to them at all, and probably relieved when you stop
- You aren't "spitting game" with the messages you are sending, you're being a creep.
- People are blocking you on Facebook and deleting your Wikipedia because you are a creep
- You are being rejected constantly by the people around you, and are trying to justify this by twisting it into something else. IE "They were mad I didnt pursue them" But really, its just rejection.
- People dont like you and don't want to interact with you, and they never will until you change your behavior

I don't want to tear you down but its the cold hard truth. I feel for you bro. I was never THIS bad, but I went through a similar arc myself. Nothing is going to change until you're willing to reevaluate your mindset, and you've rejected or ignored every suggestion that you do so by the members of the forum

I wish you the best of luck. I can tell none of us are going to be able to get through to you. I think if you keep harassing female members of a Latin gang you are likely to get shot. Maybe that'll be what you need to realize how distorted your view of the world is and get your act together
 

NealIRC

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Okay, see this guy right here.


This guy is on the queen's "Like."

Now we know why she opened my msg request to her, she has a thing for goofy White guys.

I messaged some 200 Hispanic girls before her, and only like 2-3 have responded. And the ones who responded, responded with "Sorry I don't know anything about the Latin Kings."

But why did this 1 open? She has a racial preference for White guys.

In Chicago, we are a very segregated city, and she don't have any White friends on her Facebook.

The fact that she opened the msg request and was not quick to block it meant opportunity for me to experiment.

And thus, later making the website for her.

I'll post stories of Hispanic and Black women from the 'hood, acting erraticly when they fell in love with a man who wasn't into her, the females went crazy and mentally unstable.

lostnumber said:
The difference is, I wanted to learn from the people who had it all figured out,
Yes - people who have it all figured out on how to chase women, pursue women, but not get chased by women, or get pursued by women.

I'm opening a whole new door to science. At least trying to.

lostnumber said:
and I actively put in the work to do so. You have some crazy fantasy world constructed in your head that doesn't correspond to reality.
Of course, by reality you mean nature. I'm basically trying to experiment reversing nature.

If a man can attract a woman so hard that, she knows he won't say no if she pursues, what is the argument against?

Edit: remember that part where she asked me "are you really a virgin?" to which I said "Yes" to which she said "oh." And then I dismissed it. Continued talking about something else? Well, I showed that conversation to several other older Latin Kings, and they all agree, I fucked up, and missed that window. She's never gonna forgive me.. But that's okay, I don't regret that, because I did it on purpose, ignoring that.
 

NealIRC

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More questions.

-Does anybody find that men who have hot sisters as well as men who have hot moms, themselves are never beta?

-Anyone know of any stories where women talked men out of suicide? Do women even do that??
 

Hector Papi Castillo

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Yes - people who have it all figured out on how to chase women, pursue women, but not get chased by women, or get pursued by women.

I'm opening a whole new door to science. At least trying to.
What the fuck is this? Everything we teach here improves your chances of literally get asked out and approached by women, but if that's your modus operendi, especially with how awkward you are now, good luck bub. Most guys i know who are good with girls still have to approach. Also, you don't even understand what we mean by "girls chase." When a girl chases you, it's USUALLY her letting you move very fast, giving you escalation windows, and throwing you large hints of interest. This is the female equivalent of male chasing (e.g., pursuing aggressively, etc).

You're using words you don't even understand.

"I'm opening a whole new door to science."

No, you're rationalizing your inability to follow proven paths.

You're like the chicks who used to come onto the TV show America's Next Top Model and tell Tyra Banks, a fucking supermodel, that they want to "change modeling." She asked them what they meant by it and they couldn't answer. She asked them what modeling was now and how they were going to change it. They couldn't answer.

It's nothing more than a cheap marketing ploy. Revolutionizing an industry is rare, rare occurrence, and I highly doubt that it's a virgin who is going to do it.

Also, you seriously should stop messaging gang members. You have no idea what the fuck you're getting into. These dudes do not fuck around with their women. And you're in Chicago? BRO, that's like murder capital of the U.S. Holy fucking shit. Do you watch the news?

For if and when this dude gets shot, let me be clear to any news outlet reading this - we told him to stop.

Hector
 

NealIRC

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Hector Castillo said:
Yes - people who have it all figured out on how to chase women, pursue women, but not get chased by women, or get pursued by women.

I'm opening a whole new door to science. At least trying to.
What the fuck is this? Everything we teach here improves your chances of literally get asked out and approached by women, but if that's your modus operendi, especially with how awkward you are now, good luck bub.
Then people here should have examples of women chasing after guys.

Hector Castillo said:
Most guys i know who are good with girls still have to approach. Also, you don't even understand what we mean by "girls chase." When a girl chases you, it's USUALLY her letting you move very fast, giving you escalation windows, and throwing you large hints of interest. This is the female equivalent of male chasing (e.g., pursuing aggressively, etc).
At least you understand what I mean when I say "get chased by women, get pursued by women." And I don't think people out there have many stories.

I'll throw you guys an example of attracting women without pursuing them - that is, attracting women by accident.

In Chicago's Latin King neighborhoods, I hand out pamphlets, I hand out pamphlets against the Latin Kings gang to the hottest, baddest, sluttiest women out there.

The pamphlet is titled "Latin Kings: Worst Hispanic Gang of Chicago."

When I hand out pamphlets on atheism in non-Latin King neighborhoods, certain type of women get so bored easily they throw it away. But not with this title.

The pamphlet has 2 parts, 1 and 2. Part 1 is stuff you can find on the news, and Internet. Part 2 is titled "____, worst neighborhood I ever lived in." and it summarizes my story of living in their neighborhood for 1 year, and talks about the 2 times I got beat up by them.

But what is the part about it geared to attract women?

For example, most people when they see my situation, they see choice A or B. The masculine choice, and the feminine choice. Based on the choices available to you. But what if I neither chose A or B, I instead, chose C or D - something outside the box women never could have thought of, on their own.

And my stories will show Latin Kings fight 5 on 1 rather than 1 on 1.

I make it also an emotional story rather than a logical 1. It's like I tricked these girls into reading my story.

This is an example of attracting a girl by accident. The only part where I had to do the chase, was to get them to receive the pamphlet, and they usually don't interpret that as me hitting on them.
 

NealIRC

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By the way, my whole story of that Mexican girl as an experiment, certainly failed in the part that she did not pursue me.

But in my perspective, that's mostly because she's Mexican. I don't know of any stories of Mexican girls pursuing guys.

I know stories of White women pursuing guys, and even cases where women pursued for marriage. My mom, for example, asked my dad for marriage, not the other way around.

And I have stories of Hispanic women pursuing Hispanic men, but they are still not Mexican. Puerto Rican women pursuing Puerto Rican men.

Mexican girls are basically brought up by their grandmas not to be the 1st to ask a guy for his #, ask a guy on a date, etc.

So for me to experiment this on a Mexican girl... somehow she'll internally explode, which is why she's so hurt. And full of revenge.

I'd experiment this on White women, but it's hard to find White women uninsecure enough that they'll allow me to spit game on them, just to see if I could attract them hard enough. I don't think most White women want to be in that situation.

-

I used to walk around shirtless in Mexican gang neighborhoods, to see what effects that had on females. But the problem is - the men gave me problems.

People have told me (and I haven't tested it) that if you walk around shirtless in Puerto Rican neighborhoods, Puerto Rican women can holler at you.

1 time at a street fest in a Puerto Rican neighborhood I saw a shirtless teen with a group of girls, I asked him "do you ever get approached by women that don't know you?" and he'll say yea, but I'll say "I used to do that in a Mexican neighborhood, and nobody approached me" and he says "these girls are all Puerto Rican..."

And I don't experiment much of shirtless in White neighborhoods, because I *know* White women have no balls to approach random White guys they find attractive.
 

NealIRC

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Life... is a big random experiment for me.

When I observe, the nature for which things are. I'm always curious behind it.

The more and more a girl into a guy, then more and more she knows he could hurt her if he broke her heart. So no girl wants to be in that position.

If I'm a virgin never been hugged by a girl before...

Then if I could attract a girl for sex where she would have said yes or wanted to, but it just didn't happen, then that is good enough for me.

If I could attract a girl for a relationship but it didn't happen then that is good enough for me.

Same with a date.

So when I'm an old man drooling on a wheelchair, alone and single, I could point to pictures of women on my wall, and go "Those girls are my milestones. I could have had those girls, If I wanted to." Cuz I put in a lot of effort for them to agree yes.

I'm still on the lookout for more situations to experiment.
 

lostnumber

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Neal, you should post a picture of the Latin Kings pamphlet that you hand out. I'm curious.
 

NealIRC

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I think I made this girl to be bitchy mad in real life and such.

I think she gained weight.



She didn't look that thick when I seen her this summer. Stress causes women to gain weight.

I've got multiple stories of gang members going to prison for some 2 or 3 years and when they come out, they saw their woman gained weight. The exceptions to this is if she gets a lot of dick.

And this is her a year before I messaged her, where she seemed more innocent.



Cuz now, her recent profile photos are with angrier faces, no more smiles.

If she became an evil bitch, I think I caused it...

Here some stories.

Every girl out there that became a bitch, has to have some sort of a rejection when they were younger.

Did you know... it's easy for me to get middle-school girls to be the 1st to say something to me, much harder (like impossible) for late high school girls and older.

For example, 1 time at night in a bus stop area, I saw 2 girls, an older high schooler and a middle schooler, both Hispanic. I was like 30 feet away from them.

I knew I could get the middle schooler to say something to me 1st. So what did I do...

I dropped down and did push-ups.

I could hear the middle schooler girl shout to me "Tcchhh, show off!"

But not the older girl.

And I ignored her, continued doing push-ups.

What just happened? She now regretted being the 1st to say something to me, because, I ignored her.

That means the next time she sees some guy do something random like that, she'll be silent, like her older sister.

Another example.

1 time I was running fast down a sidewalk. I was passing what might be a 12 year-old girl. You won't believe what she shouted to me. She shouted "Run Forest run!"

But this doesn't work on older girls, like college-age and above.

So countless stories where I can get middle-school girls to be the 1st to say something, including being shirtless, but I ignore them...

I think deep down, it hurts them in the long-run, and that plays a role why women get less social to men as they get older.

So I think every girl out there has some sort of a story where they were ignored or rejected by men, and that's why, they became this way.

Are there any fathers in the forums here? I wish fathers would ask their high-school aged daughters "____, has there been a time where you were the 1st to say something to a guy, but you were ignored?"

And just watch the amount of stories she could have...
 

Chase

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For anyone tuning in, Neal is displaying a rather extreme case of what I might call "overestimation of influence." This is where you assume that anything that happens with someone you have interacted with or have a relationship with (no matter how minor) is a reaction to you or something you did or didn't do.

For the most part, the phenomenon is linked to too little deep social experience (i.e., you are not familiar with other people's lives in a deep, complete way). If you're a reader who's sexually experienced, you've shed your innocence on this already... you can look back to the past when you thought, "Wow, I really affected that girl," then later on you find out or realize she was always that way, or other things in her life made her that way, etc.

Example here: Neal thinks a girl put on weight and lost her innocence because some messages he sent her stressed her out. He is not able to see the other men she dates/sleeps with/pursues, her family problems, work problems, or the 40 other men who message her every month and tell her the same things he did. Because he lacks any deep social experience with women, those things are not "real" to him; in Neal's world, there is Neal, and there is this girl. Anything that happens to her after her first point of contact with Neal comes as a result of something Neal did or did not do.

You're not going to talk him out of it, because he lacks the experiences to conceptualize what you're telling him. It is Plato's allegory of the cave in action. Until he has enough key experiences himself that he cannot explain as "I am the cause of that," or "I cannot cause what I want to have happen," he will continue to overestimate his influence over other people.

One of the problems with overestimation of influence is it'll lead to magical thinking. Because you estimate your influence on others to be so HUGE, you assume you can will others to do what you want simply by entering their presence or taking small actions around them. If they don't do what you want you assume you just did not influence them the right way, and you need to tweak your approach or try harder. Rather than learn effective strategies, you spend years chasing your tail trying to refine extremely low output ones.

One way to fix this is girlfriends, if you can get them. You'll start off thinking this girl's life, emotions, and everything are totally 100% dependent on you. And every little thing you do has a huge impact. If she is frustrated you say, "I caused that." If she's in a good mood you say, "That's because she's got me." If she gets depressed you say, "I must be doing something wrong." But over time, you slowly start to get a better grip on how much influence you actually have over her versus how much of her mood is caused by other factors in her life. And you start to give those other factors a bit more credit.

Or rock bottom. That's the other one. You just reach a point where you're like, "I can't get what I want. Maybe other guys know something I don't." And once you make that admission, that perhaps other men out there may know something you don't, you open the door to considering what other people have to say, and trying out their strategies. Which is when you start to get past this.

Ultimately it's a good trait to be confident of your influence over others. Assuming attraction becomes second nature. And you'll notice Neal has an extraordinary can-do attitude: he WILL figure this out, he says, critics be damned. These are all good traits. The main obstacle to a man who overestimates his influence is to bring it back down close enough to Earth that he can enjoy the benefits of confidence in his influence levels without overestimating his influence so much that he wastes his time on fruitless pursuits.

Chase
 

NealIRC

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Okay here's something that has happened about 4 times.

I message girls about X.

2 cases where, girls about a year later, open up the message, with a response. The 1st thing I reply, they view it. But that was my only shot. Then when I say something after, it no longer gets viewed. It was like a 1-time slot.

2 other cases where girls opened up some half a year to year later, I continue talking about X, but do not talk about Y or Z. And so, they eventually mute me.

Point taken, I'm not 1 of those type of guys to message girl X to talk about Y or Z, it's simply to talk about X.

So with this girl that I've been posting pics of, I messaged her X and she open'd up later that day to acknowledge she don't want to talk about X and if I keep trying she'll continue to play tough and hard-to-get about it.

Until eventually, I'll change the subject, and talk about Y or Z.

Chase said:
you can look back to the past when you thought, "Wow, I really affected that girl," then later on you find out or realize she was always that way, or other things in her life made her that way, etc.
Bleh, I haven't posted everything. So the stories alone do not connect everything. But here's some things obviously because of me.

When I showed her the website www .iheart<her 1st name><her last name>.com some days later she permanently changed her name by adding a middle name to it.

When I took a pic of hers and then added a cartoon character in it, Winnie the Pooh, with a big caption quote, and pasted to her, she later permanently deleted that pic from her profile.

And so and so forth.

Chase said:
or the 40 other men who message her every month and tell her the same things he did.
Because I am White, then I did some things mostly White men do to hit on women. And from what I can see from her Facebook, she don't got any White friends.

1. Homoeroticism: I showed her a collage of Chicago's top Latin King leaders, asked her who she thought was the "hottest" guy, and then I told her who I thought was the "sexiest" guy.

2.Anti-slut shaming: told her I wanted to take her to the beach the summer, so every time when she gets up to walk around, I can be 10-20 feet behind her, tell her which guys were staring at her ass, which guys were staring at her tits, etc.

3.More homo-eroticism: told her a story of how 1 of her Latin Kings on her friendlist came to whoop my ass in real life 1 day. And then made the "what are the chances that me and him will end up in a bathtub together, making handsigns, for a photoshoot?"

4.More anti-slut shaming:

And so on.

But I'm starting to learn a couple of things about women on Facebook messages. When I messaged about 200 Hispanic girls about X, every once in a while, some girl I messaged a year ago may open up, and it seem I only got 1 shot at what to say. Otherwise, it seems I am wasting their time.

The part that is selfish about them is the topic of conversation X is me trying to receive information from them, and you know, women don't do anything to men for free, including giving out free information. Naturally I'll try to change the subject to I'll give you any free information since I now know a lot about X. X being about Chicago gangs.
 

NealIRC

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You know how certain people have their Facebook where you don't have to be on their friend list to reply on their wall?

I'm also experimenting posting on women's Facebook that I didn't msg or friend request, and see how that goes. See if that will cause them to be the 1st to msg you.

Does anyone else experiment or have stories of success?

Some girls will reply with "wtf?!?" and then I click like, but not msg. I'm testing to see if they'll view my profile or msg/add me. Then it'll be a couple of days before I msg something else somewhere else.

Some girls however, just don't ever respond. I wonder if some of them are bots or cops. Like some girls just keep posting pics of their pregnant belly, yet there's no visible boyfriend anywhere in their profile.

-

What do I message? Usually images. Either funny images, or gang-related images depending on the girl and something about them.

And what are the funny images, what do you guys think that is... It has to be something creative and outside-the-box, and represent intelligence from the person who designed it.

Can anyone think of a good image, and a quote that fits in the image? I use a couple.
 

ThePhoenix

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Neal,

Been lurking this board a bit.. didn't think my first post would be to try to help out someone else, but can't quite get this out of my head, so here goes nothing. If this is a little harsh at times, please understand I'm just trying to get you to see where you're going wrong so you can improve.

The One Girl(TM)

Before I discovered anything about PUA, I had obsessed over a totally inaccessible girl for more time than I'd like to admit or even think about. Did all manners of dumb shit incluing making a commercial-grade website (that got enough traffic I had to upgrade hosting) and at times even trying to figure out who visited it. (At least it made me some new friends.) Even risked my life visiting a place that was practically a war zone.

Fortunately I never did anything that would have gotten either a restraining order or a gang wanting me dead. But I blew tons of opportunities with girls I should have jumped on, including a really cute one I used to like who literally ripped my clothes off only to have me refuse. Sadly, time is something we can never get back.

It is obvious to anyone outside of your head that you're dysfunctionally obsessed with this girl whose pic you posted. But having been (well, sort of) there myself, I don't expect you're going to give it up any time soon unless something shocks your system good. I hope I'm wrong, but for me, it took one hell of a lot. A damn lucky accident.

What Chase said about one-itis is dead on. Your chances of ever getting with her are damn near zero, but they get even worse the more you keep obsessing. Getting into intimate relations with LOTS of other girls first is the ONLY way you'd stand the slightest chance with her.

Not to be mean, but I don't think you'd know what to do with her if you did have her; that's something that takes social calibration I think you haven't picked up yet at all. Why blow it on one you're so crazy about?

Girls Chase?

Regarding getting girls to chase you, I have an analogy I think might be helpful.

Imagine you're in an empty gymnasium with a cat and a feather, and you want the cat to chase after the feather. What do you do?

If you shove the feather in the cat's nose, or pet her with it, she's going to ignore it or walk away annoyed. This is like what needy guys do.

On the other hand, if you wave around the feather at the opposite corner of the gymnasium, or worse, set it down somewhere and don't even wave it, she's probably not going to even notice it. It seems like you very much want this to work with girls, but try it with a cat first and see how well it goes over. Unless you've got some kind of mind control machine you're not telling us about, not happening.

If you want to make a cat chase a feather, you have to keep the feather at just the right distance, and even let her paw it now and again before you pull it back a few more inches. You have to show her that she has the chance to catch it.

I know it kind of sucks that a woman will just about never drive a seduction of her own accord from beginning to end, and that we have to do a lot of it, but it's something you're going to have to accept or else go mad. I don't know if it's nature or nurture, but you ain't changing it either way. Some things in sexuality are not symmetrical. Women endure periods and childbirth. We endure approach anxiety and flakes.

I Am Definitely Right(TM)

I actually think that your spirit of experimentation is itself a good thing, but you need to be far more open to trying not just things that fit your existing model of how you feel male/female interactions work and/or should work, but also things that violate that model. Scientists who cling to a particular model and selectively do only experiments that don't challenge that model and selectively give importance to only the evidence that agrees with the model, are really just pseudoscientists.

I've been guilty of holding models too steadfastly myself, and also of "black and white" thinking, which is something else I think has trapped you.

After I discovered the PUA world I stopped complimenting women entirely. I felt that it was an IOI too early and just going to gas her and put my value far below hers.

And then one day I was in a restaurant with some friends and a cute waitress who was waiting other tables caught my eye. She was wearing a very pretty twist-out. Normally I would never compliment a woman especially on anything physical, but I also happen to feel very passionately about how jacked up our society is for pressuring the majority of black women into wearing artificially straight hair. So I decided to pay her a compliment on her natural hair, all the while fully accepting that doing so was going to DESTROY any chance I may have had on her. As such, I just gave her the compliment, which she took VERY well, and then I went away, expecting zip.

About 10 minutes later the girl came to our table, to check on us and let us know that she could get our regular waitress if we needed anything. I was too in bed with the idea that complimenting women puts them completely out of reach, to realize that in this place the waitresses do not normally check on each other's tables and it was probably an invitation to talk to her more. I was stupid to do nothing, but at least the experience was enough to prevent me from dismissing Chase's tips on direct openers as rubbish.

Overestimation of influence is another issue you have, as Chase aptly addressed so I won't go into detail there.

...For Eternity!

About being an old man with countless women who wanted you and none you actually had, I have a lot of trouble believing that is something you really want. I know there were similar things of "principle" I swore up and down I would exalt over all else into old age. I eventually came to realize how wrong I was, thankfully before becoming an old man!

Plus, you are not even going to have a realistic handle over which women actually wanted you (as opposed to wanted you in the fantasy world you have constructed) until you have actually TAKEN a woman. (Anyone who thinks that a flowery website dedicated to a woman, much less a gang chica, is going to "attract the shit out of" her, has NO concept of whether a woman actually wants him or not!)

Gangs

I'd also like you to ask yourself if maybe you might be fetishizing Latinas just a little bit with all the gang stuff. I'm not saying it's wrong to prefer a certain ethnicity - I live in a glass house on that one, because I'm waaaaaaaay more attracted to black women than any other sort (I'm white, not that it matters.) But I don't go up to them obsessing over fried chicken and drive-by shootings!

I think that you might benefit a lot from having a real intimate relationship with a Latina that isn't a gang chica, just to make sure you're viewing them as whole human beings and to unpack any stereotypes you might be carrying. (I don't know the cultures well enough, but the bit about Mexicans vs Puerto Ricans, for instance, particularly to the black-and-white degree you give, smells like a stereotype.)

You should also realize that trying to attract or hook up with gang chicas in your present condition is like trying to climb Mount Everest when you haven't even learned to walk. Seriously. In all likelihood this girl fucks with guys who know EXACTLY how to turn her on and fuck her SILLY. Girls like that have a sixth sense for guys that can satisfy them. She'll smell from a mile away that you'd have no idea what to do in the sack if you had her. If she had any interest in the first place, admitting virginity turned her off completely.

I hate to be so blunt but I think you need to hear it. I've certainly lost some cocky girls to sexual inexperience. In at least one case (a girl who was a bit "ghetto" at the time,) I know this for sure because it came out of her mouth, to a mutual friend who she didn't think was going to tell me.

In The Flesh

You REALLY need to have sex. Unless you actually aren't attracted to women, in which case I'm dumbfounded as to the meaning of your experiments, which in that case would start to look almost misogynist and make me think you really need help.

I also think that Facebook/online style game is really bad for you at this stage. You REALLY need to get better social calibration with women, and that is something that is much harder to pick up when they're not in person. I know you do (marginally) interact in person also, but if you ask me, approaching in person is ALL you should be doing right now.

I second Michal's observations on fashion, posture, etc.

You seem intelligent, creative and thoughtful. I think that you could eventually be successful with women - even the kind you like - but only IF you can unpack some serious cognitive distortions you have right now. I can't say if professional help would be needed or helpful, but you might consider printing this thread and showing it to someone better able to judge that.

Best of luck brother,
Russ
 

NealIRC

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Oh I can be obsessed with this girl but that doesn't mean she has to be the only 1 I'm obsessed with.

I'm constantly experimenting with women in real life and messaging girls on Facebook, even though only like 1% respond.

But now on Facebook I'm starting to find a pattern - women will eventually stop "viewing" your messages after a while.

So I could message a girl 3 or 4 days later, and it never goes to "seen."

So that girl that I'm obsessed with, she was an outlier, because, she would always view what I messaged her no matter what. I'm starting to find, most girls aren't like that.

So there's actually a window where you can message a girl and she'll view what you say. Otherwise, I'm wondering if it's punishment.
 

ThePhoenix

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Nov 14, 2017
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282
I'm glad you're not exclusively obsessing over one girl and I'm glad you're experimenting; at my lowest point I was far worse. I made other points in my first post you should pay attention to as well.

The women on FB are not "punishing" you per se, they're just blocking/muting you likely because you're coming across as some random creepy guy on a platform that is normally geared to contacts people already know in real-life. They're putting as much thought and emotion into it as I put into deleting a spam e-mail without even reading it.

I haven't tried either but I expect FB to be extremely hard to game from, whereas Tinder is probably much better if you get really solid photos. I know a guy who gets action from Tinder pretty easily.

Are you experimenting with different levels of interest and forwards progression on your part? Have you gone up to a woman in person and told her she's cute or complimented something else you noticed about her? Have you done this enough times to get some positive responses and then tried to move things forward to meet-ups with some of those positive responders? Have you met up with a woman for a date? Invited her home? Tons of guys report success with approaches like that; you owe it to yourself to at least give it a good try.
 

NealIRC

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
170
Location
Chicago, Illinois.
ThePhoenix said:
The women on FB are not "punishing" you per se, they're just blocking/muting you likely because you're coming across as some random creepy guy on a platform that is normally geared to contacts people already know in real-life. They're putting as much thought and emotion into it as I put into deleting a spam e-mail without even reading it.
This is for cases where they already opened the message. Then they only view your convos for like 3 or 4 lines. Or just for that day. Messaging them days later they ignore. So maybe they do that if they see the convo is going no where, sure.

ThePhoenix said:
I haven't tried either but I expect FB to be extremely hard to game from, whereas Tinder is probably much better if you get really solid photos. I know a guy who gets action from Tinder pretty easily.
And so why should Facebook be any different? Use the same Tinder photos for Facebook. A lot of Facebookers link to their SnapChat and Instagram, not their Tinder though.

ThePhoenix said:
Are you experimenting with different levels of interest and forwards progression on your part? Have you gone up to a woman in person and told her she's cute or complimented something else you noticed about her? Have you done this enough times to get some positive responses and then tried to move things forward to meet-ups with some of those positive responders? Have you met up with a woman for a date? Invited her home? Tons of guys report success with approaches like that; you owe it to yourself to at least give it a good try.
If I do all that... I'm not standing out from the pack. Then I'd just like any other ordinary guy who compliments women.
 

ThePhoenix

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Nov 14, 2017
Messages
282
I spent way too much time drafting this, so please try to read this with an open mind, if nothing else so I didn't waste my time. I'm not trying to make you look stupid or anything. I'm trying to spare you from making the same kinds of mistakes I made because my thinking was all screwball and I didn't even realize it. I wish I could go back in time but I can't.

TL;DR: Until you have a strong foundation of experience attracting, dating, and most importantly sleeping with women, you don't even know what attraction is, so unless you want to utterly fail at attracting women and never get them naked or in bed, you need to follow the advice of guys who have been there and done that. Once you do have that real-world experience under your belt you will be in a better place to craft and test your own unique theories of attraction, and maybe even bang some gang chicas who would today laugh their heads off at the thought of sleeping with you.

NealIRC said:
A lot of Facebookers link to their SnapChat and Instagram, not their Tinder though.
Think about that one for a second. They don't link Tinder because they want to keep their hook-up life discrete!

From everything I've heard, Tinder is pretty much Hook-Up Central, which means your hit ratio is going to be much better because it's already cherry picked for women who are already looking to get laid by a random internet dude. That means you'd have to work the numbers game a lot harder to get the same results in FB, but to complicate matters further, contacting people you don't know is against FB policy, so you're liable to get your account suspended before you really get into useful numbers.

Not to mention, FB usually sends messages from people outside your network straight into a spam folder that many (most?) people never check. Not sure why they even usually 'see' your first few messages, but it's possible they're not really seeing it at all... I strongly suspect it's just a quirk in the UI. Heck, a fair number of people never even check their normal folder. I know at least a few girls it's impossible to get an answer out of on FB messenger but they'll answer SMS straight away (these are people I know.)

I think the real reason you're so dead set on FB is because it makes it easier for you to find gang chicas. But let's be real here, you're going to have to pound a fair amount of normal pussy before you're even going to see gang pussy with your own eyes. No if's, and's, or but's. Sorry.

NealIRC said:
If I do all that... I'm not standing out from the pack. Then I'd just like any other ordinary guy who compliments women.
I get what you're saying and in principle I agree. If you can create a really strong sexy vibe like James Bond where they don't even need you to compliment them in order to feel the sexual energy, then that's golden. The problem is, you're not experienced enough to pull that off. Until you've slept with a few dozen women at least and given them an unbelievably good time in bed, you absolutely will not have the skill, knowledge or mental calibration required to create that strong of a sexy vibe.

What you are asking to do is like trying to win the Tour de France when you've barely managed to ride a tricycle up your parents' driveway! Some things like giving compliments are not absolutely ideal but are necessary steps in learning, like training wheels on a bike.

If you compliment a woman and manage to get her into bed, you're going to learn immensely more about women than you will from sending a girl some web page full of her pictures. I guarantee you that with my heart, mind, body and soul. Ask any man who has slept with a woman and he'll tell you the same.

You don't differentiate yourself from average guys by not even learning the things average guys know. You differentiate yourself from them by continuing to learn more whereas most of them stop learning when they get just good enough to snag the occasional ok-looking girlfriend who eventually winds up cheating on them.

And by the way, even the iconically sexy character James Bond shows sexual interest - he just does it in more playful, mischievous, and subtle ways. For instance, double meanings, like when he says "beautiful view" to Halle Berry's character, ostensibly referring to the ocean behind her, but she knows what he was really talking about.

You don't necessarily have to compliment a woman outright but you do need to show a degree of sexual interest. She has to know that if she plays her cards right she might be able to sleep with you. Otherwise, she will not pursue, because the social risk to her of appearing desperate or slutty is too great. Society places harsher standards on women. You can't change this.

But again, unless you've slept with a fair number of women, you almost certainly don't have what it takes to convey sexual interest without being direct.

I also understand you wanting to stand out from the pack and not seem like every other guy. The thing is, there are ways to do this without shunning the basic premise of what experienced guys are telling you to do.

For instance, one of the things this site points out is to invite girls home quickly, like on the first date, with the objective of seducing them. (The importance of this might be explained by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexy_son_hypothesis.) The examples on this site of inviting girls home overwhelmingly involve either proposing to watch a movie or to cook, probably because these are things most guys are somewhat capable of.

Personally, I find those excuses a bit cliché, and so I'm playing with using the work I do to my advantage. I'm a creative media producer and I work from home, so I might instead get a girl curious about one of my projects, and invite her to have a sneak peek at something unreleased. It's fresh and different. She's probably been invited home to watch a movie by a hundred other guys. She's probably never been invited to preview a type of project most people never see in their making.

So, yeah, I don't invite her home to watch a movie. But I do invite her home; if I was to say, "all the other guys invite girls home, so I'm going to NOT invite girls home," then I'm going to be stuck jerking off instead of having sex.

And let's talk about your science experiments. Now, I'm all for experimenting. It's a crucial learning tool.

The problem is, you don't have the ability to meaningfully analyze the results of your own experiments. Here I am going to assume that the ultimate purpose of your experiments is to determine which behaviours cause attraction in females and which don't. If that's not what they're about then you're on the wrong website, bud.

Why do I say you can't do this? Because virgin guys inherently have a difficult time gauging womens' attraction levels. I've seen it repeatedly both in myself (from when I was, after the fact) and in others. Some times they miss attraction signals, and other times they mistake for actual attraction a girl who is just entertained or leading them on. I know for a fact you have absolutely no calibration towards judging attraction, because otherwise you wouldn't think you "attracted the fuck out of" a gang chick by sending her some obsessive website which surely made her either laugh at you or cringe.

The only concrete and reliable way to know whether you've actually attracted a girl, is whether she has mated with you. As in, she allows you to thrust your penis in her vagina. That is the gold standard for whether she was attracted or not, because that's the ultimate biological purpose of attraction and the only behaviour that is not common with other intentions that superficially look like attraction to the untrained eye.

Now, guys who have a fair number of lays under their belt will start to pick up on subtle clues that show whether a woman is really attracted or not, so eventually they don't need to sleep with them just to know. But at this point you are not one of those guys.

What this means is that your experiments are all largely useless until at least some of them have led to sex. But if you're blatantly ignoring the advice of guys who already know from experience how to get sex, then chances are, you're going to stumble around trying all the wrong experiments for years, decades, or even your whole life without even actually knowing, provably, that you attracted even one single woman, even if you trick yourself into thinking you did.

I hope I've made at least some sense to you.
 

NealIRC

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
170
Location
Chicago, Illinois.
ThePhoenix said:
Not to mention, FB usually sends messages from people outside your network straight into a spam folder that many (most?) people never check. Not sure why they even usually 'see' your first few messages, but it's possible they're not really seeing it at all... I strongly suspect it's just a quirk in the UI. Heck, a fair number of people never even check their normal folder. I know at least a few girls it's impossible to get an answer out of on FB messenger but they'll answer SMS straight away (these are people I know.)
This is true as of a couple years ago. Now, every time someone sends someone a msg that is no on their friend list, Facebook makes a pop notification that someone tried to message request you. And clicking it takes you to that folder.

It wasn't like that 2 years ago. 2 years ago, I saw I had msgs going back 5 years that I never knew about, because Facebook didn't notify me, and I didn't know about the folder.

ThePhoenix said:
I think the real reason you're so dead set on FB is because it makes it easier for you to find gang chicas.
Yep. I'm starting to realize now, that before the smartphone came around, the Internet was heavily White. And I been cruising the Internet since 2000.

ThePhoenix said:
NealIRC said:
If I do all that... I'm not standing out from the pack. Then I'd just like any other ordinary guy who compliments women.
I get what you're saying and in principle I agree. If you can create a really strong sexy vibe like James Bond where they don't even need you to compliment them in order to feel the sexual energy, then that's golden. The problem is, you're not experienced enough to pull that off. Until you've slept with a few dozen women at least and given them an unbelievably good time in bed, you absolutely will not have the skill, knowledge or mental calibration required to create that strong of a sexy vibe.

What you are asking to do is like trying to win the Tour de France when you've barely managed to ride a tricycle up your parents' driveway! Some things like giving compliments are not absolutely ideal but are necessary steps in learning, like training wheels on a bike.

If you compliment a woman and manage to get her into bed, you're going to learn immensely more about women than you will from sending a girl some web page full of her pictures. I guarantee you that with my heart, mind, body and soul. Ask any man who has slept with a woman and he'll tell you the same.

You don't differentiate yourself from average guys by not even learning the things average guys know. You differentiate yourself from them by continuing to learn more whereas most of them stop learning when they get just good enough to snag the occasional ok-looking girlfriend who eventually winds up cheating on them.

And by the way, even the iconically sexy character James Bond shows sexual interest - he just does it in more playful, mischievous, and subtle ways. For instance, double meanings, like when he says "beautiful view" to Halle Berry's character, ostensibly referring to the ocean behind her, but she knows what he was really talking about.

You don't necessarily have to compliment a woman outright but you do need to show a degree of sexual interest. She has to know that if she plays her cards right she might be able to sleep with you. Otherwise, she will not pursue, because the social risk to her of appearing desperate or slutty is too great. Society places harsher standards on women. You can't change this.

But again, unless you've slept with a fair number of women, you almost certainly don't have what it takes to convey sexual interest without being direct.

I also understand you wanting to stand out from the pack and not seem like every other guy. The thing is, there are ways to do this without shunning the basic premise of what experienced guys are telling you to do.

For instance, one of the things this site points out is to invite girls home quickly, like on the first date, with the objective of seducing them. (The importance of this might be explained by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexy_son_hypothesis.) The examples on this site of inviting girls home overwhelmingly involve either proposing to watch a movie or to cook, probably because these are things most guys are somewhat capable of.

Personally, I find those excuses a bit cliché, and so I'm playing with using the work I do to my advantage. I'm a creative media producer and I work from home, so I might instead get a girl curious about one of my projects, and invite her to have a sneak peek at something unreleased. It's fresh and different. She's probably been invited home to watch a movie by a hundred other guys. She's probably never been invited to preview a type of project most people never see in their making.

So, yeah, I don't invite her home to watch a movie. But I do invite her home; if I was to say, "all the other guys invite girls home, so I'm going to NOT invite girls home," then I'm going to be stuck jerking off instead of having sex.
While I don't compliment women or try not to, I do do anti-slut shame.

So with that girl, recall I said stuff like "I'd like to take you to da beach in the summer time, and whenever you get up to walk around, I can be 10-20 feet behind you, and tell you, which guys were staring at your ass, checking out your tits, etc." And this was after I told her I wanted to hire her as a model.

So these 2 things tell them that I don't slut-shame.


ThePhoenix said:
And let's talk about your science experiments. Now, I'm all for experimenting. It's a crucial learning tool.

The problem is, you don't have the ability to meaningfully analyze the results of your own experiments. Here I am going to assume that the ultimate purpose of your experiments is to determine which behaviours cause attraction in females and which don't. If that's not what they're about then you're on the wrong website, bud.

Why do I say you can't do this? Because virgin guys inherently have a difficult time gauging womens' attraction levels. I've seen it repeatedly both in myself (from when I was, after the fact) and in others. Some times they miss attraction signals, and other times they mistake for actual attraction a girl who is just entertained or leading them on. I know for a fact you have absolutely no calibration towards judging attraction, because otherwise you wouldn't think you "attracted the fuck out of" a gang chick by sending her some obsessive website which surely made her either laugh at you or cringe.

The only concrete and reliable way to know whether you've actually attracted a girl, is whether she has mated with you. As in, she allows you to thrust your penis in her vagina. That is the gold standard for whether she was attracted or not, because that's the ultimate biological purpose of attraction and the only behaviour that is not common with other intentions that superficially look like attraction to the untrained eye.

Now, guys who have a fair number of lays under their belt will start to pick up on subtle clues that show whether a woman is really attracted or not, so eventually they don't need to sleep with them just to know. But at this point you are not one of those guys.

What this means is that your experiments are all largely useless until at least some of them have led to sex. But if you're blatantly ignoring the advice of guys who already know from experience how to get sex, then chances are, you're going to stumble around trying all the wrong experiments for years, decades, or even your whole life without even actually knowing, provably, that you attracted even one single woman, even if you trick yourself into thinking you did.

I hope I've made at least some sense to you.
So you're basically saying you don't really attract women unless they have sex with you?

Strange.
 

ThePhoenix

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Nov 14, 2017
Messages
282
Maybe there's hope here? Maybe?

NealIRC said:
Now, every time someone sends someone a msg that is no on their friend list, Facebook makes a pop notification that someone tried to message request you.
If she gets a lot of notifications in one chunk (was offline or whatever) and clicks to see a different one that catches her eye first, all the other ones get dismissed too. One of my pet peeves as a FB user. Good chance she didn't even read yours.

NealIRC said:
ThePhoenix said:
I think the real reason you're so dead set on FB is because it makes it easier for you to find gang chicas.
Yep. I'm starting to realize now, that before the smartphone came around, the Internet was heavily White.
I had a feeling. See, I understand your thinking, because I was once like you on some level.

Now, I don't know what you think about gang chicks but I can tell you that if you want to attract one, you are never going to, unless you, ironically, give up on them. For now.

You. Need. To. Get. Good. With. Women. First. Period.

NealIRC said:
While I don't compliment women or try not to, I do do anti-slut shame.

So with that girl, recall I said stuff like "I'd like to take you to da beach in the summer time, and whenever you get up to walk around, I can be 10-20 feet behind you, and tell you, which guys were staring at your ass, checking out your tits, etc."
This comes off poorly calibrated and forced. But at least you're trying.

Usually you don't get into real anti-slut-shaming until you're on a date. And it's not always even necessary. I've had girls quite willing to come home with me who I didn't do it on - at least consciously - at all. It's more of a negative-requirement than a positive-requirement, as in, it's not that you have to do something, it's that you have to make sure you don't do the opposite. You need to make sure your behaviour doesn't betray a conservative attitude.

If you actually are totally ok with women being promiscuous and sexually aggressive, you probably don't really need to think about doing this consciously. At least not that much. I actually think this shouldn't be a problem for you, being that you like gang chicks. Unless you're so totally off in your own little make-believe world that you don't even realize gang chicks are promiscuous!

I think the problem here is that you're trying to use anti-slut-shaming as a substitute for conveying interest and moving forwards, in the hopes that if she feels safe to be sexual, she'll somehow magically start pursuing you. That isn't going to happen.

NealIRC said:
And this was after I told her I wanted to hire her as a model.
Normally, I'd assume this was an obvious joke, but with you right now I can't be so sure. Actually trying to hire her would communicate one of two things:

  1. Your interest in her is actually purely business, in which case you're going to have a serious challenge in front of you when you get her in person, and one you certainly don't have the experience or social acuity to overcome, or
  2. You are trying extremely hard to hide your intentions.

This comes across as creepy... like, scared she might end up hacked up in a dumpster type creepy.

It also conveys a lack of confidence. Pussyfooting and beating around the bush when it comes to getting women into sexual situations is extremely unattractive to them. Males are supposed to be aggressive by nature, so if you're not actively trying to get what you want, you're going to be taken for weak and genetically inferior. Do yourself a favour and watch a nature show and look at how primate alpha males behave, in general but especially towards females.

Story:

At a place I used to work at there was a sexy West Indian girl, very tall, taller than me. She was the cocky and promiscuous type. Not a gang member but from what I heard I'm pretty sure a few thugs tapped that.

Anyway, I badly wanted to fuck her.

After quitting that job I had some mutual friends with her on Facebook so I tried to reach out.

Only, I was deeply paranoid of over-inflating her already huge ego, so I was very careful to not compliment her and not let her think I wanted her. I was so scared of her thinking she was above me that I even made fun of her. And I tried the same dumb shit you're trying, pretending to reach out to her for some business purpose.

She blocked me.

I deserved it, too.

I showed a female friend what I had sent the girl. Normally I don't recommend listening to girls' dating advice, but this one was brutally honest and on point when she told me to stop pussyfooting with women.

My behaviour showed a complete lack of confidence and communicated that I didn't understand women and probably wouldn't know what to do with her if she did give it to me.

I should also note that I had also talked to the girl a few times in person a couple years earlier. I used some cocky banter. Even teased her a bit, but she took it very well, probably because there were non-verbal cues to both show her that I was just playing with her, and allowing me to calibrate to her needed level of value vs. attainability. I actually calibrated this somewhat well in spite of inexperience, because on some level, to at least some extent, human beings instinctively know how to deal with each other in person.

Pulling from online is a lot harder than in person. The same woman who was fairly friendly in person and even somewhat forgiving of mistakes was fucking ice cold on Facebook. Think about that carefully and ask yourself if maybe your focus is wrong.

In person, I had this girl to the point, briefly, where she'd give me a beaming smile when we'd meet eyes across the room. And this was a girl who woudn't hesitate to give you a look that would kill small animals if she didn't like you.

What I should have done at this point was to get a bit more friendly, show some interest in getting to know her, confidently show her I found her attractive, and move to get her out for coffee or something near my place or hers. I wish I had've done that.

Instead, I was, in my overly rigid mental model, so obsessed with not elevating her value over mine, and not showing any interest until she was all over me, that I just shut down completely, stopped talking to her, and downright avoided her for fear that too much idle interaction would get me friendzoned (which it probably would have.)

And what did I get for it? I got a chick who wouldn't even give me the time of day on Facebook.

NealIRC said:
So you're basically saying you don't really attract women unless they have sex with you?

Strange.
Well, actually they do lose attraction pretty quickly if you don't make moves on them quickly.

But you're missing my point. I'm not saying they don't get attracted until sex has occurred. I'm saying that you at this point have no reliable means of judging whether or not a woman was attracted to you, other than whether or not she slept with you.

You're going to go off and do some random behaviour that causes a woman to laugh or smile (probably awkwardly) or stare at you or put a few extra hits on your website or God knows whatever else, and in your virginal ignorance you're going to think to yourself, "ha, see, I attracted her," when meanwhile, you didn't actually attract her at all. The only proof you have that you successfully attracted her is that she fucked you.
 
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