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- Nov 11, 2019
- Messages
- 5,561
This are things brought up by women in general not just Chinese
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2023
- Messages
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like this?
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those are 10" opening... @Spike wears a bit bigger. these are all "vintage" I came across, like 20 years old, plus pretty cheap and take offers... not sure if right style, maybe he can critique
12" opening: https://www.grailed.com/listings/74...ction&g_aqid=798783f8e1b30b386276d81520eaa849
dark, well-worn: https://www.grailed.com/listings/55...ction&g_aqid=798783f8e1b30b386276d81520eaa849
- Joined
- May 21, 2023
- Messages
- 491
Yes, the first and last onelike this?
If Six Was Nine × Japanese Brand × Lee Vintage Flared Lee Y2k Light Wash Faded Denim Bootcut Jeans | Grailed
Searching for Vintage Flared Lee Y2k Light Wash Faded Denim Bootcut Jeans? We’ve got If Six Was Nine × Japanese Brand × Lee Men's Bottoms starting at $60 and plenty of other Men's Bottoms. Shop our selection of If Six Was Nine × Japanese Brand × Lee today!
dark, well-worn: https://www.grailed.com/listings/55...ction&g_aqid=798783f8e1b30b386276d81520eaa849
Also this sort:
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2025
- Messages
- 288
Good. That’s about the same percentage of well put together guys I see in my town as well.
- Joined
- May 21, 2023
- Messages
- 491
14 May 2025
Hit a bit of a slump since my last update.
However, there is value in it. I have learned several important lessons (from making critical mistakes) that will tighten my game going forward.
China is a place to learn seduction fast. The girls are gorgeous, but also highly selective. Frame control here is paramount, and the slightest slip-up, as I have learned, can cause your attraction with them to plummet to zero.
I’ll go through three cases of girls I met in the past two weeks which I screwed up for different reasons, to share with you all the lessons I’ve learned, and also so that you can see that my seductions do not always go as smoothly as they might seem from my LRs.
All of them were beautiful - honestly moreso even than the majority of girls I have slept with over the past year. If I can crack the seduction code with this tier of girls, I’ll be very content with where I am in my journey.
The Accomplished Tea Master
I met this girl while wandering around downtown Chengdu. A small, petite girl with a doll-like face, thin waist and amazing breasts. As I walked past her, she glanced my way and smiled warmly - a rare overt IOI that I could not pass up. She reacted to my approach with warmth but some nervous hesitation (I have learned that dialing down the directness of my approaches here is more effective), and we exchanged contacts.
She was 25 years old, and the owner of a government-endorsed “intangible cultural heritage” studio. An expert in Chinese tea ceremony, calligraphy, and Chinese traditional dance. This is her life’s passion, and she is obviously quite successful at her work as she has a whole team of people working for her. She struck me as sharp, articulate, and educated. This, plus her beauty, made her a top tier girl in my mind (which I believe also contributed to my struggle to hold frame with her).
We met for tea in the evening. She seemed quite invested from the beginning, even bringing me a gift of a spicy rabbit head to try (not kidding - it’s apparently a local delicacy. I did not eat it…)
I did the usual stuff - deep diving, escalating on high points, and fractionating with small talk during which I maintain mild aloofness. This back and forth seems to be pretty effective here. It’s a pattern like this:
Small talk (maintaining neutral aloofness) -> she invests with interest or eye contact -> I reward with interest or escalation (more warmth, a deep dive question, deep eye contact, sometimes brief touch) -> fractionate back to small talk -> rinse and repeat
It’s classic operant conditioning. If she zones out or uses her phone, I become more aloof and stare into space with a bored expression. Then when she invests again by asking a question, I return my full attention to her. Pretty soon she stops checking her phone and is fully invested in me.
Anyway, that’s what I did with this girl, and she became very compliant - even with physical touch (which is rare for Chinese girls). However she soon said that she had to go home as she had to get up early for work. She had told me that she was free for the evening, but did not mention that she had to leave so soon. I was a little disappointed, but did not show it. I ended the date shortly after.
We met again a couple of days later for food, but this time I had to leave early for a date with another girl (who I did bang), and we did not see each other again after that.
What led to the death of this seduction was not a single mistake but a bunch of small things that weakened my frame with her. For example, she was late both of the times I arranged to meet up with her. Instead of calling her out on this, I tolerated it and said I would wait for her. She replied “that’s so romantic (rose emoji)”.
When we met, I could tell that the attraction was lessened, she was no longer as invested (she even watched some livestream on her phone while we ate dinner - something I should have called out), and the air was more stiff.
Being accommodating to women when they are not punctual communicates that your time is less important than theirs and weakens your frame.
The second mistake was simply not escalating when I should have. The second time she met me for food, she was definitely free that evening. Despite being a more traditional girl, on a subconscious level she expected escalation which I did not deliver.
The third mistake was completely losing frame with bad texting. I had told her I was leaving the next day, and she texted me in the morning:
“Are you on the train now?”
“No, something came up and I actually rebooked it for tomorrow”
“Oh, really”
“Yeah. Have you eaten yet?”
No response from her. No idea why I said that, I realised in hindsight that it’s a boring question that gives off needy orbiter vibes. I’ve massively recalibrated my texting since this.
I pinged her later with a photo of the spicy rabbit head she brought me, and her response was polite but distant. To this day she is still friendly with me, but the seduction, much like that unfortunate animal, is long dead.
Sexy 19yo Dance Student
Approached this girl in the evening outside a shopping mall near my place. She was taking a video of herself on a bicycle, and I opened indirectly by inquiring on what she was filming. She hooked, I soft closed, we exchanged contact info.
We met for coffee a couple of days later. Upon first meeting her, she had an air of haughty aloofness that I’m already familiar with in these sorts of girls. I responded with aloofness in kind, keeping the conversation going without asking too many questions or reacting too much, often letting there be pregnant pauses in the flow. I’ve found this works to portray a quiet confidence that gets girls chasing.
It worked, and soon her entire demeanour changed. She went from avoiding eye contact and talking with disinterest to holding strong eye contact and constantly asking me questions. It’s amazing how you can make girls flip like a switch by calibrating your levels of interest (operant conditioning again - I need to read further into this stuff).
Anyway, by around 40 minutes in, I got the sense that the lay was definitely there with this girl. However, like the last girl (in fact all three of them did exactly the same thing), despite telling me she was free for the rest of that day, it later turned out that she had another class in the evening, so there was simply not enough time to bounce to a second venue. No idea why these girls do this. Perhaps they’re afraid that if they say they’re busy later I won’t want to meet them? Oh well.
Continuing things over texting, her investment levels were high. The first thing she said was “I want to take you to a really nice restaurant” and sent me photos of some fancy dishes. Actually, all three girls did this. Funny that there seem to be such predictable behaviour patterns here.
Now is where I dropped the ball with her. While on the date, I had mentioned that I’d made a Chinese TikTok account, and that a few of my videos had gone kinda viral locally. She texted me asking if she could follow my TikTok. I made the foolish blunder of giving it to her.
Why was that a blunder, you might be thinking? Surely having some viral TikTok videos is a kind of DHV.
The problem is that the person I am in my TikTok videos is NOT the seductive persona I portrayed to this girl. It’s a different character, and while it certainly works well to gain virality among locals, I do not believe it is attractive in any seductive sense.
More crucially, it robbed me of all my mystique. I realised my mistake immediately after sharing it with her. I even mentioned my age in one of my videos (31) which, her being 19, would very likely trigger a FSC reaction. I knew immediately that with this one move I had pretty much blown what was almost a sealed deal.
After that, her attitude via texting changed subtly. At first, she was still acting friendly and jesting, but not investing like before. I called her the next day, thinking it might be possible to use my seductive voice to regain frame. I could sense, however, the shift in her demeanour - from highly invested and chasing, to simply friendly.
I arranged another date with her, which she agreed to but then flaked on. I called her out on this, but she did not apologise, only explaining that she was tired. At this point I should not have accepted that (actually I should have recognised this was a lost cause and moved on, but I wanted to meet her again just to confirm it for myself). I rescheduled for the next day.
But now her attitude got really cold and nasty - treating me almost like an annoying servant. I guess because deep down she resented the fact that I was not the seductive, aloof, strong-framed guy she thought I was, and also because I had shown some weakness in frame in reaction to her flaking. Her texting got downright disrespectful.
I should have punished her for this - told her to come back when she learns how to speak to me like a human being. But since we had the date scheduled for that day (and I had no other strong leads), I wanted to see her and find out if she was really like this in person or if this was just how she texts people.
We met up, and it should come as no surprise that she was indeed cold, aloof, bitchy, and self-centred - a completely different girl to what I saw on that first date. I did not hide my sour mood, and soon ended the date. She later sent a text apologising for flaking, and I said goodbye and wished her the best.
This one was a lesson in the importance of holding strong frame, in not over-revealing information (sharing my TikTok was an unnecessary risk with a girl who is already maximally invested), and that when girls show disrespect, you must punish them because there is nothing less attractive to a girl than a man who does not demand respect.
It’s operant conditioning, again and again. Starting to feel like the key to seduction in China is becoming the strong-willed paternal figure that these girls never had in their lives…
Gorgeous 19yo Freedom-Seeker
Last one. Out of the three girls, this is the one I was the most chewed up about because she was absolutely STUNNING and her personality was exactly my type. Sweet, warm, curious, open-minded, and on a “freedom bend” having just recently moved away from her over-controlling parents. This was a sealed deal that I screwed up by hurrying things too quickly and, again, losing my seductive frame.
I had approached her the last time I was in this town a couple of weeks back. She was working at a clothing store in the mall, I spotted her on her way to work and did a pretty standard direct approach. She seemed cute, but nothing particularly exceptional (she was dressed in loose work clothes). I number-closed her anyway, figuring she could be a nice option if I have nothing else.
A few days ago, I posted on my WeChat timeline some photos of myself hanging out with friends, which she messaged me about. I found out that she recently moved to town and didn’t have many friends, so I guess she saw it as a DHV. I arranged a date for coffee the next day.
I had little expectations, barely even remembering what she looked like. When I saw her, I could hardly believe it. Just gorgeous, a lovely youthful face and the perfect figure. On top of that, she was bubbly, smiley and endlessly curious about me. She said she wanted to study English and go out and see the world because she had lived such a boring sheltered life, and she loved to hear my stories about travel. She smiled bashfully when I looked her in the eyes, saying I made her shy.
Seriously, my type to a god damn T.
However, like the other two girls, she had told me she was free the rest of the day, but after 45 minutes of coffee, told me she had plans to meet a friend in about an hour and a half.
Now, had I not been planning on leaving that town in a few days, I would have ended the date there on a high note, maintaining her investment levels (she, like the other girls, suggested taking me out for a fancy dinner lol), and met another day to close the deal.
However, as it was, this was one of my last days in town. I would not have another opportunity to meet her, because he job gives her no rest days and only 5 days a month of morning shift in which she didn’t finish super late (that day happened to be one of them).
So I decided to go for it, even though I sensed that an hour and a half would be nowhere near enough time to pull without facing major LMR (no sexual framing or physical escalation yet - socially and emotionally she was locked in, but the arousal wasn’t there).
Still, I could have at least gotten her to my place if I had not fucked up the pull. Let me explain how that happened.
I suggested grabbing yoghurt at a convenience store nearby (downstairs from my place), and off we went. My plan was to get the yoghurt, then say to her since there’s nowhere to sit and we still have an hour or so, we could go up to my place and I’d show her photos on my laptop of my hometown (which she had asked about on the date). This would probably have been enough plausible deniability if I’d pulled it off smoothly.
Instead, while walking to the convenience store (which was just a little bit further than it should have been - not the best logistics), I had the bright idea of using the plausible deniability excuse that I’ve seen used by a Chinese PUA:
“Actually, I might have to go back and send a document on my computer. It’ll only take about 10 minutes though. We can get the yoghurt then hang out for a bit, then I’ll take you back to the station.”
This didn’t work for several reasons.
To put the final nail in the coffin, after grabbing the yoghurt and as we were about to part ways, I said “I’m pretty busy, we may not have many opportunities to see each other again”, basically sub-communicating needy vibes. She said “that’s okay, if we’ll meet again we’ll meet again”.
And that was it. She was still friendly over texting, but when I called her the next day to try to arrange another date after she finished work, she sounded annoyed and said it would be too late at night to meet (I knew that was extremely low odds, but wanted to try anyway to be sure).
Takeaways
Three beautiful, amazing girls who were extremely attracted to me at the outset, and I botched them all for different reasons.
Importantly, however, I am pretty clear about the mistakes I made, and I’m glad I pushed the envelope with each of them to see the final result exactly for myself.
If you don’t do that, perhaps you preserve your ego, but you lose a valuable reference point, and I know that these sorts of uncomfortable reference points are the ones that will shape me into a skilled seducer.
Most importantly of all, I am coming back at this with a vengeance. There's a tier of girls I know I can get, I just need to hold their attraction by calibrating investment vs aloofness, maintain strong frame control, be smooth and make as few blunders as possible.
Onwards and upwards!
Hit a bit of a slump since my last update.
However, there is value in it. I have learned several important lessons (from making critical mistakes) that will tighten my game going forward.
China is a place to learn seduction fast. The girls are gorgeous, but also highly selective. Frame control here is paramount, and the slightest slip-up, as I have learned, can cause your attraction with them to plummet to zero.
I’ll go through three cases of girls I met in the past two weeks which I screwed up for different reasons, to share with you all the lessons I’ve learned, and also so that you can see that my seductions do not always go as smoothly as they might seem from my LRs.
All of them were beautiful - honestly moreso even than the majority of girls I have slept with over the past year. If I can crack the seduction code with this tier of girls, I’ll be very content with where I am in my journey.
The Accomplished Tea Master
I met this girl while wandering around downtown Chengdu. A small, petite girl with a doll-like face, thin waist and amazing breasts. As I walked past her, she glanced my way and smiled warmly - a rare overt IOI that I could not pass up. She reacted to my approach with warmth but some nervous hesitation (I have learned that dialing down the directness of my approaches here is more effective), and we exchanged contacts.
She was 25 years old, and the owner of a government-endorsed “intangible cultural heritage” studio. An expert in Chinese tea ceremony, calligraphy, and Chinese traditional dance. This is her life’s passion, and she is obviously quite successful at her work as she has a whole team of people working for her. She struck me as sharp, articulate, and educated. This, plus her beauty, made her a top tier girl in my mind (which I believe also contributed to my struggle to hold frame with her).
We met for tea in the evening. She seemed quite invested from the beginning, even bringing me a gift of a spicy rabbit head to try (not kidding - it’s apparently a local delicacy. I did not eat it…)
I did the usual stuff - deep diving, escalating on high points, and fractionating with small talk during which I maintain mild aloofness. This back and forth seems to be pretty effective here. It’s a pattern like this:
Small talk (maintaining neutral aloofness) -> she invests with interest or eye contact -> I reward with interest or escalation (more warmth, a deep dive question, deep eye contact, sometimes brief touch) -> fractionate back to small talk -> rinse and repeat
It’s classic operant conditioning. If she zones out or uses her phone, I become more aloof and stare into space with a bored expression. Then when she invests again by asking a question, I return my full attention to her. Pretty soon she stops checking her phone and is fully invested in me.
Anyway, that’s what I did with this girl, and she became very compliant - even with physical touch (which is rare for Chinese girls). However she soon said that she had to go home as she had to get up early for work. She had told me that she was free for the evening, but did not mention that she had to leave so soon. I was a little disappointed, but did not show it. I ended the date shortly after.
We met again a couple of days later for food, but this time I had to leave early for a date with another girl (who I did bang), and we did not see each other again after that.
What led to the death of this seduction was not a single mistake but a bunch of small things that weakened my frame with her. For example, she was late both of the times I arranged to meet up with her. Instead of calling her out on this, I tolerated it and said I would wait for her. She replied “that’s so romantic (rose emoji)”.
When we met, I could tell that the attraction was lessened, she was no longer as invested (she even watched some livestream on her phone while we ate dinner - something I should have called out), and the air was more stiff.
Being accommodating to women when they are not punctual communicates that your time is less important than theirs and weakens your frame.
The second mistake was simply not escalating when I should have. The second time she met me for food, she was definitely free that evening. Despite being a more traditional girl, on a subconscious level she expected escalation which I did not deliver.
The third mistake was completely losing frame with bad texting. I had told her I was leaving the next day, and she texted me in the morning:
“Are you on the train now?”
“No, something came up and I actually rebooked it for tomorrow”
“Oh, really”
“Yeah. Have you eaten yet?”
No response from her. No idea why I said that, I realised in hindsight that it’s a boring question that gives off needy orbiter vibes. I’ve massively recalibrated my texting since this.
I pinged her later with a photo of the spicy rabbit head she brought me, and her response was polite but distant. To this day she is still friendly with me, but the seduction, much like that unfortunate animal, is long dead.
Sexy 19yo Dance Student
Approached this girl in the evening outside a shopping mall near my place. She was taking a video of herself on a bicycle, and I opened indirectly by inquiring on what she was filming. She hooked, I soft closed, we exchanged contact info.
We met for coffee a couple of days later. Upon first meeting her, she had an air of haughty aloofness that I’m already familiar with in these sorts of girls. I responded with aloofness in kind, keeping the conversation going without asking too many questions or reacting too much, often letting there be pregnant pauses in the flow. I’ve found this works to portray a quiet confidence that gets girls chasing.
It worked, and soon her entire demeanour changed. She went from avoiding eye contact and talking with disinterest to holding strong eye contact and constantly asking me questions. It’s amazing how you can make girls flip like a switch by calibrating your levels of interest (operant conditioning again - I need to read further into this stuff).
Anyway, by around 40 minutes in, I got the sense that the lay was definitely there with this girl. However, like the last girl (in fact all three of them did exactly the same thing), despite telling me she was free for the rest of that day, it later turned out that she had another class in the evening, so there was simply not enough time to bounce to a second venue. No idea why these girls do this. Perhaps they’re afraid that if they say they’re busy later I won’t want to meet them? Oh well.
Continuing things over texting, her investment levels were high. The first thing she said was “I want to take you to a really nice restaurant” and sent me photos of some fancy dishes. Actually, all three girls did this. Funny that there seem to be such predictable behaviour patterns here.
Now is where I dropped the ball with her. While on the date, I had mentioned that I’d made a Chinese TikTok account, and that a few of my videos had gone kinda viral locally. She texted me asking if she could follow my TikTok. I made the foolish blunder of giving it to her.
Why was that a blunder, you might be thinking? Surely having some viral TikTok videos is a kind of DHV.
The problem is that the person I am in my TikTok videos is NOT the seductive persona I portrayed to this girl. It’s a different character, and while it certainly works well to gain virality among locals, I do not believe it is attractive in any seductive sense.
More crucially, it robbed me of all my mystique. I realised my mistake immediately after sharing it with her. I even mentioned my age in one of my videos (31) which, her being 19, would very likely trigger a FSC reaction. I knew immediately that with this one move I had pretty much blown what was almost a sealed deal.
After that, her attitude via texting changed subtly. At first, she was still acting friendly and jesting, but not investing like before. I called her the next day, thinking it might be possible to use my seductive voice to regain frame. I could sense, however, the shift in her demeanour - from highly invested and chasing, to simply friendly.
I arranged another date with her, which she agreed to but then flaked on. I called her out on this, but she did not apologise, only explaining that she was tired. At this point I should not have accepted that (actually I should have recognised this was a lost cause and moved on, but I wanted to meet her again just to confirm it for myself). I rescheduled for the next day.
But now her attitude got really cold and nasty - treating me almost like an annoying servant. I guess because deep down she resented the fact that I was not the seductive, aloof, strong-framed guy she thought I was, and also because I had shown some weakness in frame in reaction to her flaking. Her texting got downright disrespectful.
I should have punished her for this - told her to come back when she learns how to speak to me like a human being. But since we had the date scheduled for that day (and I had no other strong leads), I wanted to see her and find out if she was really like this in person or if this was just how she texts people.
We met up, and it should come as no surprise that she was indeed cold, aloof, bitchy, and self-centred - a completely different girl to what I saw on that first date. I did not hide my sour mood, and soon ended the date. She later sent a text apologising for flaking, and I said goodbye and wished her the best.
This one was a lesson in the importance of holding strong frame, in not over-revealing information (sharing my TikTok was an unnecessary risk with a girl who is already maximally invested), and that when girls show disrespect, you must punish them because there is nothing less attractive to a girl than a man who does not demand respect.
It’s operant conditioning, again and again. Starting to feel like the key to seduction in China is becoming the strong-willed paternal figure that these girls never had in their lives…
Gorgeous 19yo Freedom-Seeker
Last one. Out of the three girls, this is the one I was the most chewed up about because she was absolutely STUNNING and her personality was exactly my type. Sweet, warm, curious, open-minded, and on a “freedom bend” having just recently moved away from her over-controlling parents. This was a sealed deal that I screwed up by hurrying things too quickly and, again, losing my seductive frame.
I had approached her the last time I was in this town a couple of weeks back. She was working at a clothing store in the mall, I spotted her on her way to work and did a pretty standard direct approach. She seemed cute, but nothing particularly exceptional (she was dressed in loose work clothes). I number-closed her anyway, figuring she could be a nice option if I have nothing else.
A few days ago, I posted on my WeChat timeline some photos of myself hanging out with friends, which she messaged me about. I found out that she recently moved to town and didn’t have many friends, so I guess she saw it as a DHV. I arranged a date for coffee the next day.
I had little expectations, barely even remembering what she looked like. When I saw her, I could hardly believe it. Just gorgeous, a lovely youthful face and the perfect figure. On top of that, she was bubbly, smiley and endlessly curious about me. She said she wanted to study English and go out and see the world because she had lived such a boring sheltered life, and she loved to hear my stories about travel. She smiled bashfully when I looked her in the eyes, saying I made her shy.
Seriously, my type to a god damn T.
However, like the other two girls, she had told me she was free the rest of the day, but after 45 minutes of coffee, told me she had plans to meet a friend in about an hour and a half.
Now, had I not been planning on leaving that town in a few days, I would have ended the date there on a high note, maintaining her investment levels (she, like the other girls, suggested taking me out for a fancy dinner lol), and met another day to close the deal.
However, as it was, this was one of my last days in town. I would not have another opportunity to meet her, because he job gives her no rest days and only 5 days a month of morning shift in which she didn’t finish super late (that day happened to be one of them).
So I decided to go for it, even though I sensed that an hour and a half would be nowhere near enough time to pull without facing major LMR (no sexual framing or physical escalation yet - socially and emotionally she was locked in, but the arousal wasn’t there).
Still, I could have at least gotten her to my place if I had not fucked up the pull. Let me explain how that happened.
I suggested grabbing yoghurt at a convenience store nearby (downstairs from my place), and off we went. My plan was to get the yoghurt, then say to her since there’s nowhere to sit and we still have an hour or so, we could go up to my place and I’d show her photos on my laptop of my hometown (which she had asked about on the date). This would probably have been enough plausible deniability if I’d pulled it off smoothly.
Instead, while walking to the convenience store (which was just a little bit further than it should have been - not the best logistics), I had the bright idea of using the plausible deniability excuse that I’ve seen used by a Chinese PUA:
“Actually, I might have to go back and send a document on my computer. It’ll only take about 10 minutes though. We can get the yoghurt then hang out for a bit, then I’ll take you back to the station.”
This didn’t work for several reasons.
- It was too hurried and too sudden. Delivering this while on the way to get the yoghurt probably triggered her “dodgy situation” alarm.
- For the Chinese gamer I’ve seen use this, this sort of plausible deniability works when at the date spot, in a calm state, after he has confirmed that she’s free later, and delivered in a casually indifferent sort of “you can come if you like, it’s up to you” manner. Not on the spur of the moment, and not as a change of plans from something else.
- It wasn’t the plausible deniability she was expecting. When she asked, on the date, if she could see photos from my hometown, I told her they were on my laptop. She was probably expecting that if I was going to invite her to go see them (I didn’t do that at the time, anticipating a FSC reaction, but definitely should have called back to it later.)
To put the final nail in the coffin, after grabbing the yoghurt and as we were about to part ways, I said “I’m pretty busy, we may not have many opportunities to see each other again”, basically sub-communicating needy vibes. She said “that’s okay, if we’ll meet again we’ll meet again”.
And that was it. She was still friendly over texting, but when I called her the next day to try to arrange another date after she finished work, she sounded annoyed and said it would be too late at night to meet (I knew that was extremely low odds, but wanted to try anyway to be sure).
Takeaways
Three beautiful, amazing girls who were extremely attracted to me at the outset, and I botched them all for different reasons.
Importantly, however, I am pretty clear about the mistakes I made, and I’m glad I pushed the envelope with each of them to see the final result exactly for myself.
If you don’t do that, perhaps you preserve your ego, but you lose a valuable reference point, and I know that these sorts of uncomfortable reference points are the ones that will shape me into a skilled seducer.
Most importantly of all, I am coming back at this with a vengeance. There's a tier of girls I know I can get, I just need to hold their attraction by calibrating investment vs aloofness, maintain strong frame control, be smooth and make as few blunders as possible.
Onwards and upwards!
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2022
- Messages
- 340
Pure gold in this post.
I meet a fair amount of Asian tourists, so these lessons are def gonna help me too. Thanks for sharing!
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2023
- Messages
- 521
That has been a great read! Really detailed in what went south and how things can be improved.
Interesting to see your perspective on Chinese women too. Never was much into them personally but always felt for some reason they would need someone way less demanding and aloof than girls in the west. At least by my experience of having these girls very usually seeming intimidated when I talk to them, and believing I need a lot more attainability. Nice to know they need such strong frame control, wouldn’t have expected that.
I wanted to ask you about this part.
Because I’ve been trying to see how to improve my texting and I felt that showing some interest in their life would show to girls that you don’t want to just meet and bang.
In fact totally coincidentally I met a chinese girl in a student dancing event yesterday, we danced, I grabbed her number before she left and after she responded to my icebreaker I sent her today: “Excited about the bachata class? I’ve got 2 hours today”, and have been left on read.
I can see what you mean about the needy orbiter vibes, it’s just that it feels more try hard to me to send something flirty right away or propose we go out or just start teasing, cold reads, sending gifs and stuff via text. Like she would feel that ok I am trying to get something. And I did such things in the past with no much effect.
Do you do something very different to these when texting?
Interesting to see your perspective on Chinese women too. Never was much into them personally but always felt for some reason they would need someone way less demanding and aloof than girls in the west. At least by my experience of having these girls very usually seeming intimidated when I talk to them, and believing I need a lot more attainability. Nice to know they need such strong frame control, wouldn’t have expected that.
I wanted to ask you about this part.
Wouldn’t it be ok to just ask something back about her day if she is asking you about yours? It falls into the higher attainability I mentioned before as well.
Because I’ve been trying to see how to improve my texting and I felt that showing some interest in their life would show to girls that you don’t want to just meet and bang.
In fact totally coincidentally I met a chinese girl in a student dancing event yesterday, we danced, I grabbed her number before she left and after she responded to my icebreaker I sent her today: “Excited about the bachata class? I’ve got 2 hours today”, and have been left on read.
I can see what you mean about the needy orbiter vibes, it’s just that it feels more try hard to me to send something flirty right away or propose we go out or just start teasing, cold reads, sending gifs and stuff via text. Like she would feel that ok I am trying to get something. And I did such things in the past with no much effect.
Do you do something very different to these when texting?
- Joined
- May 21, 2023
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- 491
Glad its useful!
I will just point out that my insights are specifically what I've noticed about Gen Z Chinese girls in their own environment. From what I've observed, due to this generation having being almost totally sealed off from the outside world, the social dynamics in China are just so different from anywhere else. That would be why this aloofness stuff seems to work.
If I was gaming tourists or Asian girls from other countries (even Chinese and Taiwanese outside their environment), I would dial down the aloofness and be more sexual and flirty.
If they're intimidated when you approach them, that's not about frame control. That's about coming off as non-threatening, disarming their fears of talking to strangers.
When I approach in China, I go in extra warm, friendly and gentle, my first priority being to get her relaxed and avoid triggering a "panic" state.
It would if it were at a different point in the seduction. The main issue was by then I had already missed an escalation window and showed myself as a guy who doesn't value his own time enough, so this sort of boring text just gave off "needy orbiter" vibes. I sensed that much as soon as I sent it.
Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. Hard to say why she left you on read - perhaps she felt some pressure knowing that you would see each other again in class anyway. Or maybe she was just being friendly and isn't actually available. I wouldn't overthink it.
What I've found works well is to share a bit about myself rather than just asking about her. For example:
Me: So do you go to (place) often?
Her: Not often
Me: Gotcha. I just arrived in this town, so I'm still figuring things out. Usually I'm in (xyz).
Almost 100% of the time she will respond to that with a question, which I can make into a thread.
I wouldn't do teasing, cold reads etc via texting. Save that for the date.
It depends on how we met. If the approach was super brief and we hardly got to know each other, I'll just focus on rapport with some simple questions about her life and hobbies. The sub-communication is "I don't know much about you, and I'm still screening you, but I'd also like to move things forward".
I try to match her investment levels via texting, which usually means short messages rather than long ones. I keep it surface-level and focused on getting the date. Definitely avoid setting sexual frames via texting.
- Joined
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- 491
18 June 2025
Well where do I start… It’s been an eventful month in terms of game.
Last month I spent another couple of weeks in Chengdu, this time mainly focused on gaming with some Chinese PUAs that I met there. I was hitting the streets basically every day and night, approaching dozens of girls. Probably approached at least 150 girls in those two weeks.
How many did I close? Fuck all…. lol. So much LMR and failed pulls. I couldn’t figure out what the sticking point was, which was especially frustrating because A. on my last trip I pulled 5 girls in 14 days with relatively fewer approaches, and B. the guys I was with (who definitely didn’t have any stronger game or fundamentals than me, though their style, presentation and social media presence were on point, plus they spoke Chinese natively) were pulling girls almost every night.
But at last it fell into place when I messaged a Tribal Elder who has significant experience in China. From what he told me I figured it out - I was trying too hard to game like a local in Chinese, when in reality what I needed to do was lean into my (already very powerful) social frame as a foreigner. As a non-native speaker, I can never be as smooth as a local, and I don’t need to be. Hold the frame by speaking English, follow the GirlsChase system of compliance, comfort and arousal, be extra warm and friendly to disarm their fears, and just lead, lead, lead.
On the last day, I FINALLY pulled a girl (an incredibly DTF one, I’ll admit) by abandoning that folly attempt to game like the locals. I learned a lot in the process, so I consider it time well spent. But I find it ironic that I came full circle in the end, returning to my roots.
One thing I’ll note is that I was focusing very specifically on the teachings of a HK daygame coach called Elon (for details see this thread by @Gorili). His vibe is extremely aloof, almost to the point of being cold and indifferent. What I realised, after talking this over with a Chinese PUA friend who watched some of his videos (a guy who I observed has a very warm, forward, sexual, and non-aloof style - the total opposite of Elon), is that there is something fundamentally missing in what Elon teaches.
If you watch the infields, you will see almost no game from him. No arousal, no emotional stimulation, no deep diving, no physical escalation, no sexual framing. Absolutely nothing. Just basically acting like an arrogant, old money Hong Konger with high standards.
And guess what? That’s an extremely attractive archetype for Chinese girls. The girls in his videos are greens from the start. They require no game, which is the only explanation for why he is able to pull them within 30 minutes without really using any game other than acting aloof enough to get them chasing.
So anyway, this is the last time I will talk about Elon. Perhaps there are some guys who can benefit from studying his style of “game”, but I feel like I went down a rabbit hole of trying to figure it out for myself only to discover that it doesn’t fit my social frame (or my personality) at all. I would have been better served by just staying in my own element.
So the sojourn in Chengdu was a stimulating and educational if frustratingly dry couple of weeks.
Then I came back to Bangkok, and, riding the high momentum and leaning back into my old GirlsChase style of game, almost immediately picked up a tall 19 year old Burmese girl with a beautiful face and the most amazing figure (still need to write up the LR).
I was like well… I guess that settles it lol. GirlsChase cold approach > fake aloof cold approach.
(Also in my high momentum I pissed off one of my buddies who isn’t into cold approach by running off for an instadate with a mega hottie while we were hanging out. Despite my honest attempt to make amends, he’s still sour about this, which I just find funny at this point. I think it strikes a nerve with guys who don’t do PUA to see someone else take life by the balls.)
Since then, I’ve been focused on building a new business (lost the last of my clients in my previous field, so I’m starting to feel the pressure now to get some passive income going). With less time available for daygame, I decided to give one more shot at optimising OLD as I’m convinced that with the right photos and system it can actually be an effective pipeline.
Gotta be honest, I was shocked. After restructuring my photos and trying a new strategy for Tinder (using Incognito mode and filtering by Recently Active - platinum only features), it turned into a pipeline of DTF girls. I’ve got more leads than I can manage. I actually have to filter hard. These girls have no LMR too because they’re on Tinder looking for dick. @Adventurer I know what you were talking about now. Fuck. A year of daygaming here only to find out now that Tinder is a pussy tap when its optimized… Probably a good thing to be honest, it would’ve made me a lazy daygamer if I’d found out about this sooner lol.
Tip: To find out which is your best photo, there’s a more efficient method than photofeeler. Turn on “smart photos” on Tinder, swipe a lot until the algorithm figures out which of your photos gets the most matches, then go on a date with a girl and ask her to show you your tinder profile from her side. Whichever photo it shows at the front is your strongest. Set that photo as your main one. Then do the platinum thing I mentioned above and watch your Tinder blow up.
Still, now that I’m getting tons of results from online, I am seeing the downsides of it:
-Atlas
Well where do I start… It’s been an eventful month in terms of game.
Last month I spent another couple of weeks in Chengdu, this time mainly focused on gaming with some Chinese PUAs that I met there. I was hitting the streets basically every day and night, approaching dozens of girls. Probably approached at least 150 girls in those two weeks.
How many did I close? Fuck all…. lol. So much LMR and failed pulls. I couldn’t figure out what the sticking point was, which was especially frustrating because A. on my last trip I pulled 5 girls in 14 days with relatively fewer approaches, and B. the guys I was with (who definitely didn’t have any stronger game or fundamentals than me, though their style, presentation and social media presence were on point, plus they spoke Chinese natively) were pulling girls almost every night.
But at last it fell into place when I messaged a Tribal Elder who has significant experience in China. From what he told me I figured it out - I was trying too hard to game like a local in Chinese, when in reality what I needed to do was lean into my (already very powerful) social frame as a foreigner. As a non-native speaker, I can never be as smooth as a local, and I don’t need to be. Hold the frame by speaking English, follow the GirlsChase system of compliance, comfort and arousal, be extra warm and friendly to disarm their fears, and just lead, lead, lead.
On the last day, I FINALLY pulled a girl (an incredibly DTF one, I’ll admit) by abandoning that folly attempt to game like the locals. I learned a lot in the process, so I consider it time well spent. But I find it ironic that I came full circle in the end, returning to my roots.
One thing I’ll note is that I was focusing very specifically on the teachings of a HK daygame coach called Elon (for details see this thread by @Gorili). His vibe is extremely aloof, almost to the point of being cold and indifferent. What I realised, after talking this over with a Chinese PUA friend who watched some of his videos (a guy who I observed has a very warm, forward, sexual, and non-aloof style - the total opposite of Elon), is that there is something fundamentally missing in what Elon teaches.
If you watch the infields, you will see almost no game from him. No arousal, no emotional stimulation, no deep diving, no physical escalation, no sexual framing. Absolutely nothing. Just basically acting like an arrogant, old money Hong Konger with high standards.
And guess what? That’s an extremely attractive archetype for Chinese girls. The girls in his videos are greens from the start. They require no game, which is the only explanation for why he is able to pull them within 30 minutes without really using any game other than acting aloof enough to get them chasing.
So anyway, this is the last time I will talk about Elon. Perhaps there are some guys who can benefit from studying his style of “game”, but I feel like I went down a rabbit hole of trying to figure it out for myself only to discover that it doesn’t fit my social frame (or my personality) at all. I would have been better served by just staying in my own element.
So the sojourn in Chengdu was a stimulating and educational if frustratingly dry couple of weeks.
Then I came back to Bangkok, and, riding the high momentum and leaning back into my old GirlsChase style of game, almost immediately picked up a tall 19 year old Burmese girl with a beautiful face and the most amazing figure (still need to write up the LR).
I was like well… I guess that settles it lol. GirlsChase cold approach > fake aloof cold approach.
(Also in my high momentum I pissed off one of my buddies who isn’t into cold approach by running off for an instadate with a mega hottie while we were hanging out. Despite my honest attempt to make amends, he’s still sour about this, which I just find funny at this point. I think it strikes a nerve with guys who don’t do PUA to see someone else take life by the balls.)
Since then, I’ve been focused on building a new business (lost the last of my clients in my previous field, so I’m starting to feel the pressure now to get some passive income going). With less time available for daygame, I decided to give one more shot at optimising OLD as I’m convinced that with the right photos and system it can actually be an effective pipeline.
Gotta be honest, I was shocked. After restructuring my photos and trying a new strategy for Tinder (using Incognito mode and filtering by Recently Active - platinum only features), it turned into a pipeline of DTF girls. I’ve got more leads than I can manage. I actually have to filter hard. These girls have no LMR too because they’re on Tinder looking for dick. @Adventurer I know what you were talking about now. Fuck. A year of daygaming here only to find out now that Tinder is a pussy tap when its optimized… Probably a good thing to be honest, it would’ve made me a lazy daygamer if I’d found out about this sooner lol.
Tip: To find out which is your best photo, there’s a more efficient method than photofeeler. Turn on “smart photos” on Tinder, swipe a lot until the algorithm figures out which of your photos gets the most matches, then go on a date with a girl and ask her to show you your tinder profile from her side. Whichever photo it shows at the front is your strongest. Set that photo as your main one. Then do the platinum thing I mentioned above and watch your Tinder blow up.
Still, now that I’m getting tons of results from online, I am seeing the downsides of it:
- It creates an illusory abundance mentality which negatively affects my cold approach skills, worsening AA and blunting my calibration (an annoying new voice that says “oh I have tons of cute matches so I don’t really need to approach that girl”) which I have to actively suppress if I want to get and stay in high momentum
- It encourages sloppy game. The girls I match with online are mostly DTF and available (greens way more than yellows). This means I can basically do the bare minimum and still feel like I’m on top of it. It’s like playing on easy mode, the path of least resistance. So it feeds the ego in a way that makes cold approach more difficult by convincing you that whatever you’re doing is “good game” regardless of the reality
- It’s fucking boring and predictable. Like @topcat & @TomInHo said in this thread, it’s just input and output. Push buttons and you get pussy. It’s a sales funnel, not Game. You don’t need to actually work on your fundamentals or inner game or any of that stuff to get results from online, you just need to optimize the upfront stuff and girls will fuck you based on their false perception of who you are from some pictures and words on a screen.
- Lastly, it’s certainly very possible to get some very cute girls from online who are easy and DTF, but not the top value girls. Those girls simply do not hook up with random guys on Tinder because they already have plenty of high value guys chasing them in real life. How do I know this? I see them, I’ve met them, I’ve dated them - from cold approach. The amazing girls with perfect faces and bodies, great fashion, and purpose in their lives. Never once have I seen them with some random foreign dude they met from Tinder. They’re always with a local guy, likely a high status guy from their social circle. If you rely 100% on OLD, you will probably never meet these kinds of girls or even know that they exist. Cold approach is your only real shot.
-Atlas
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 21, 2023
- Messages
- 491
21 June 2025
Over-reliance on OLD is definitely making my game more sloppy.
Fumbled the lay with a pretty cute girl yesterday that I’m really pissed at myself about. Here’s what happened.
This is a girl I cold approached back in March. We didn’t get the chance to meet, because we were both leaving soon to other cities. We stayed in touch on Instagram, messaging occasionally. At last, we were both back in Bangkok this month, so we arranged to meet up. There was definitely some anticipation in it - she really wanted to see me and was even projecting a little about our meeting while we were apart.
We met for coffee, then got some light food, followed by ice cream (standard 1-2-3 date structure for me). She was wearing the same bright red blouse as the day I met her. Even though she was compliant throughout, I didn’t get a strong sense of “it’s on”, though asian girls can sometimes be like this and the key is just to plow through.
Did all the usual stuff - deep diving, some light touching, eliciting values, emotional stimulation.
When it came to the ice cream, we bought it at a convenience store then walked back to my motorcycle. I made the pull attempt, suggesting we go back to mine and chill for a bit to relax since it’s hot and noisy outside. She reacted a little surprised to this, at which point I realised I hadn’t set strong enough sexual frames nor established comfort. However she didn’t say outright “no”. She said “you mean now?” And looked at me with a half-sly smile. She then said “I don’t know, I think I have to go back soon.”
We sat down, and I heard her objection - that she has never dated a foreigner and is a bit scared of them.
Here’s what I did:
Talked about how some guys are creeps, inquired about her dating history and what she’s looking for (accidentally boyfriend qualifying myself) and tried unsuccessfully to steer the conversation towards something sexual. At one point she mentioned that she gives great massages. Then, she announced that she had to go and asked if I could drop her off at her friend's place, and so I... just dropped her off.
Here’s what I could have done had I been thinking sharp:
Well, it’s all reference points. But I do feel like meeting these super DTF girls from Tinder is just making me lazy and less calibrated because they require zero game. Many of them will even come straight to your place. So when all your dates are with greens, you’re simply unprepared for situations like this with yellows (which most of my daygame dates have been).
Gotta stay sharper. I learned this stuff for a reason. Maybe I need to build up my drive and motivation with no ejaculation for a period of time. When I did that before it definitely helped with focus (I was on Seduction Overdrive Momentum when I got back from my last China trip lol). Draining my balls into low effort girls isn't helping me reach my seduction goals.
Over-reliance on OLD is definitely making my game more sloppy.
Fumbled the lay with a pretty cute girl yesterday that I’m really pissed at myself about. Here’s what happened.
This is a girl I cold approached back in March. We didn’t get the chance to meet, because we were both leaving soon to other cities. We stayed in touch on Instagram, messaging occasionally. At last, we were both back in Bangkok this month, so we arranged to meet up. There was definitely some anticipation in it - she really wanted to see me and was even projecting a little about our meeting while we were apart.
We met for coffee, then got some light food, followed by ice cream (standard 1-2-3 date structure for me). She was wearing the same bright red blouse as the day I met her. Even though she was compliant throughout, I didn’t get a strong sense of “it’s on”, though asian girls can sometimes be like this and the key is just to plow through.
Did all the usual stuff - deep diving, some light touching, eliciting values, emotional stimulation.
When it came to the ice cream, we bought it at a convenience store then walked back to my motorcycle. I made the pull attempt, suggesting we go back to mine and chill for a bit to relax since it’s hot and noisy outside. She reacted a little surprised to this, at which point I realised I hadn’t set strong enough sexual frames nor established comfort. However she didn’t say outright “no”. She said “you mean now?” And looked at me with a half-sly smile. She then said “I don’t know, I think I have to go back soon.”
We sat down, and I heard her objection - that she has never dated a foreigner and is a bit scared of them.
Here’s what I did:
Talked about how some guys are creeps, inquired about her dating history and what she’s looking for (accidentally boyfriend qualifying myself) and tried unsuccessfully to steer the conversation towards something sexual. At one point she mentioned that she gives great massages. Then, she announced that she had to go and asked if I could drop her off at her friend's place, and so I... just dropped her off.
Here’s what I could have done had I been thinking sharp:
- Pace her reality by agreeing that some guys are creeps and it’s hard for girls to know which guys to trust.
- Go into DWW’s gambit about who has it harder in dating, men or women.
- Fractionate.
- Deliver Comfort and Trust gambit.
- Fractionate.
- Compare hand sizes, then pull away. Tease her on her massage skills. Start to give her a mock massage, then mention how tense my shoulders are and how I really need to relieve them.
- Fractionate.
- Hit her with an emotional blast. Grab her hand and look into her eyes and say: “Listen, I’m really enjoying our time together, I feel like we’re connecting on such a deep level. I want to continue this and get to know you, but I want to go somewhere quiet and peaceful as it’s so noisy here. Let’s go to mine for a bit, then I promise I’ll take you back to the station so that you’ll be in time to meet your friends. Anyway, most importantly, I really need a massage, and you said that you give great massages! So let’s go.” And directly lead her by the hand.
Well, it’s all reference points. But I do feel like meeting these super DTF girls from Tinder is just making me lazy and less calibrated because they require zero game. Many of them will even come straight to your place. So when all your dates are with greens, you’re simply unprepared for situations like this with yellows (which most of my daygame dates have been).
Gotta stay sharper. I learned this stuff for a reason. Maybe I need to build up my drive and motivation with no ejaculation for a period of time. When I did that before it definitely helped with focus (I was on Seduction Overdrive Momentum when I got back from my last China trip lol). Draining my balls into low effort girls isn't helping me reach my seduction goals.