Atlas' Journal

[gameboy]

I see... yes, when I read your report I found your closing line a bit weird:

"Her: Woah... (face frozen, ultra shocked look)
Me: I'm just... Anyway, it was great meeting you. I'll be in touch. See you!"

This may be what tripped you up. It would have been better to disarm her shock in some way before leaving.

 

[Atlas IV]

I see... yes, when I read your report I found your closing line a bit weird:

"Her: Woah... (face frozen, ultra shocked look)
Me: I'm just... Anyway, it was great meeting you. I'll be in touch. See you!"

This may be what tripped you up. It would have been better to disarm her shock in some way before leaving.

Yeah, I meant to say "just kidding", but in the moment I made the mistake, my brain froze and it came out awkward. Definitely damaged her last impression of me.

 

[gameboy]

I wouldnt even have said I was kidding. You were giving her a compliment after all.

I'd rather acknowledge her reaction in some way, and ask her what's wrong. Show her you care, and that she can feel safe with you.

But yeah, sometimes our brain just freezes and we bail out too early... happened to me too a couple of times.

 

[Atlas IV]

7 April 2024 ​

This post will be a bit messy since it's copied using handwriting conversion directly from my journal.

Been doing quite a bit of daygame with a new wing I met. My cold approach fundamentals are improving, but my overall game still needs work. I'm texting girls too much, making rookie mistakes, focusing on stupid conversations that go nowhere, and wasting time by not sexualizing and not being bold/ forward enough.

Date today with cute librarian girl I met from the mall. She's nice, but awkward, reserved and introverted. I should have guessed as much from the way she dresses (super old-fashioned). I got complacent today and treated the date as a romance/activity date instead of a seduction date. We went to a cafe/art gallery. Funny, this is exactly the date format another guy on the forum did recently, and he complained that it went nowhere. I thought I could make an exception for this girl because she is so introverted, but I really shouldn't have.

Ran a couple of my emotional stims which got only a weak response (I need to focus on delivering these slowly and with intent). Big mistake was I didn't run any sexual framing on on her, partially because I thought the vibe was never intimate enough, but also because I didn't sense any sort of sexual vibe from her. In hindsight though, I think this is because I just didn't try. I should have AT LEAST run the walls gambit.

May meet her again and try some gambits & fractionation + rainbow ruses, but it may be a waste of time since I didn't do enough screening on this date. Even though I think she is interested in me, I mentally jumped to the conclusion that she is sexually conservative without even VALIDATING my hypothesis with tests. Thus, aside from some physical touch and brief hand-holding, this date was pathetically non-sexual.

From now on, I MUST go into every date with a clear set of goals to achieve. At a minimum, this should include probing to find out what kind of person she is sexually (through deep diving and gauging her response to light sex talk gambits, which I must not be afraid to run), using physical touch to escalate as much as possible, and setting a lover frame using a boyfriend disqualifier.

I also need to be more bold and forward with using physical touch in ALL interactions. My interactions last night at a night club were far too lacking in this, which was one reason why none of them developed a sexual vibe either.

Some other specific stuff to remember:
- In day game, I should hold the girl's hand (NOT shake it) touch the elbow, upper arm, and inner back when talking, and close distance somewhat.
- I should hold her hand when leading her somewhere, then DROP it afterwards to convey non-boyfriend non-needy vibes.
- I should touch my leg to hers when we are sitting next to each other in an intimate environment. I remember a girl at the food court who did that with me immediately as I sat next to her, and the feeling was like electricity. Must remember: do not underestimate the power of kino.

 

[Atlas IV]

May 6 2024

It’s been a while since my last update.

After my last post, I went out a lot more with my wing. We met some nice girls in day game, some of whom I pulled. But I didn’t have time to follow up with all my leads as I left that city and country soon after.

As of now, I am in a small beach town in Brazil, living with a couple of friends from my older times in Latin America. This trip is something we had planned since last year, and I had originally intended to stay with them for a month. They’re really great friends of mine, and we’re having fun. But the reality of this experience is (as is often the case) somewhat different to what I expected.

I imagined that we would be three single dudes out every day, picking up hot girls at the beaches and the bars and throwing crazy parties (as we did in earlier times). However, two things put a damper on that.

The first is that (as I only discovered upon arriving) both of them have girlfriends. Last time we met, we were a trio of wolves on the prowl in Colombia, and chasing girls was the activity we bonded over. This time, I’m the only one actually doing cold approach with intent. And while it’s still fun ogling and eye-fucking girls with them, it’s not the same as being with wings who are in the game to win and fuck, not just messing around for fun.

The second is that it’s currently low season in Brazil, and so this beach town is basically empty of tourists. There are still some hotties at the beach and walking around, but there isn’t enough volume for me to seriously consider this a place to level up my game.

Hanging out with friends can be great, but I’ve come to realise that if you're serious about PUA, it's very important to choose your company. I’m actually more productive on my own than with wings who don’t know game or aren't taking it seriously like me.

Therefore, I’ve decided to part ways with my buddies and head back to a big metropolis where I can get some real volume in. I’m going to put my nose to the grindstone, journal everything, and hopefully have some great LRs to share soon.

 

[Atlas IV]

May 18, 2024

First day in Rio. Felt like a zombie today as the bus I took from Sao Paulo last night was stuck for an extra 6 hours due to a truck crash, so I didn't arrive until past 3am. Still, managed to get in a few solid approaches.

Approach 1
On my way back from the gym this morning, I spotted a girl in elephant pants with the most amazing, hypnotic ass that swayed side to side. I crossed the street and followed, then stopped next to her at a crossing and opened after we made eye contact. I asked if she spoke English, which she did, then told her:
"You have the most amazing walk, confident, striding like a cat on the prowl. You've must be a Carioca (Rio native)." (perhaps I should have said "I was hypnotized by your ass" just for the reaction lol)
She giggled and thanked me. Luckily her English was decent. After a couple of minutes of banter, she asked where I was from (hook), and then I suggested we cross the road into the shade.
We continued the banter. I stacked again with another assumption about her earrings, teasing her that it gave her an 80s vibe. By this point we were standing very close and eye contact was strong. I lightly touched her elbow or forearm when making a tease.
We exchanged numbers, and she answered my icebreaker text pretty warmly. I plan to ping her tomorrow for a date. Not bad for my first approach in the city!

Approach 2
Spotted a hottie in tight pants and a low cut top with lots of tattoos. Crossed the road and opened her. She did not speak English, so I tried telling her in broken Portuguese that I liked the way she walked. I don't think she understood much of what I said, but she definitely felt my intent. I was leaning heavy into the sexual gaze.
I couldn't think of what else to say, so I told her a bit about my travels. My inability to stack verbally on the fly in Portuguese is definitely a handicap for me - I need to have some Portuguese material memorized and ready to go for girls who don't speak English.
At some point, I asked her how old she is. Turned out she was 15... I SWIFTLY and politely ejected. Normally I assume if a girl has tattoos, she must be old enough to approach, but that's clearly not the case in Brazil...

Approach 3
Walking along the waterfront, I saw a girl sitting by herself. I passed her and paused a few meters beyond to her. I then pretended to take some photos, and we made eye contact, so I asked her to take a photo for me. A lame opener, but it was the only thing I could think of.
I sat down for the photos and motioned her to sit next to me. Made a bit of banter about her football shirt. Her accent was thick and I struggled to understand much of what she said. Turned out she worked for the navy. I was scrambling to think of some way to tease her, but my mind was blank. Again, I need to memorize more material. Mystery said that you should have at least 3 stories, 3 teases, 3 qualifications, and a DHV story ready to deliver at any moment. This will be my homework for tomorrow.
After a while, she got up to leave. We exchanged Instagrams, but there wasn't much attraction in the set so I don't expect anything from this.

Approach 4
Entering a supermarket, I spotted a beautiful, light-skinned girl ahead with an incredible blond afro that everyone was gawking at (the genetic variety of Brazilian people is insane).
As she was in a quieter aisle, I approached and complimented her about the hair, teasing her about her 80s, Abba-like style. She was bubbly and cheerful, and we talked about Rio, Samba, and comparing the south and the north. It felt like a strong interaction, and in the end we exchanged numbers. But I think in hindsight I made three mistakes:
1. I didn't make my intent clear enough - my nonverbals were reasonably strong and I did ask her out for a coffee, but I think the male-female dynamic wasn't quite there. Some sexual teasing would have helped.
2. Not enough rapport was established - the conversation was mostly focused on external topics, so we didn't share enough basic facts aside than where we are from and that we both work with languages. I should have used assumptions and teasing to find out more about her.
3. It was too high energy. After I made a time constraint and ended the set, she left the supermarket without even buying what she had come for. Obviously she felt a little awkward from the interaction. Perhaps, instead of cutting it off with the time constraint, I should have ended it more smoothly and calmly by asking what she was here to buy, then walked with her a little before making an excuse to leave.

Nonetheless, I can really feel my approaches improving, especially in terms of nonverbals (which I think is at least 50% of success in daygame). I'm also more aware of the mistakes I'm making. I spent the past week in Sao Paulo studying Gunwitch SMMA and Tom Torero's Street Hustle, and I've put together a framework for daygame that I think works well for me and my style. Will share it here once I've tested and tweaked it.

 

[alexlaguma]

Really enjoyed reading through this. Made me want to leave my 9-5 in the UK and get on a flight to Thailand haha.

Good stuff - lots of gems in here. I think I'll start a journal also

 

[Atlas IV]

Really enjoyed reading through this. Made me want to leave my 9-5 in the UK and get on a flight to Thailand haha.

Good stuff - lots of gems in here. I think I'll start a journal also

Glad to hear it mate! Yeah, honestly just do it and don't even think twice. Bangkok is the mecca for game, and generally one of the coolest cities in the world to live. You'd love it.

I'll be back there later this year, hit me up if you decide to visit!

 

[Atlas IV]

3 July 2024

Had a very strange dream last night. I was sitting on the sofa at some party and met a super hot girl, or rather she came over to me. She was basically sitting on me with one of her legs crossing over mine. After some time, she asked me if I wanted to go home with her. Everyone heard it. I didn’t answer, but she got up and I followed her.

Then I saw three other young handsome guys following her out the door as well. I thought “what the fuck is this?” and decided it must be some sort of trick. So I made some excuse and bailed.

Later that evening, I called her. She answered and I asked how her evening went. She said it was amazing, they’d just finished up and all the guys had left. She spoke in innuendos suggesting that they had all fucked her.

I told her I’d be there in 10 minutes. She laughed and hung up, then sent me a bunch of texts. I few of them stuck with me:

“Enjoy your breakfast ”
“And don’t worry that you’re not getting much ”
“It’s all about lead generation. Just keep opening and the results will come naturally.”

Then I felt a surge of emotions overcoming me - anger, frustration, FOMO - all the feelings when you just missed an opportunity to bang a really hot girl. I woke up in a hot sweat and with a headache, and totally weirded out by this dream.

Was it my subconsciousness telling me something? No idea. I’ve been getting a lot of “half results” these past couple of weeks - numbers and dates but struggling to convert into lays, so it could be a manifestation of my frustrations with that.

This is the first time I've ever had a dream that's "spoken" to me though. Maybe I ought to start keeping a dream journal.

 

[Higher]

struggling to convert into lays

Feel u man.

What do u reckon are ur sticking points right now?

 

[gameboy]

“It’s all about lead generation. Just keep opening and the results will come naturally.”

I think this is the most important message of the dream. That, and also the part not to worry and to enjoy your breakfast (i.e. your life).

I meditate often, and I get intuitions of the sort just like the messages in your dream. They are always on point, and very helpful.

 

[Atlas IV]

11 July 2024 - Seville

I’m back in this city in southern Spain after five years, here to take a summer course in flamenco guitar, which is a passion of mine.

In terms of pickup, I have some PTSD from this city. Back in 2019, I first came across GirlsChase and PUA while backpacking across Mexico. For a beginner with terrible fundamentals, I had pretty outsized success there, obviously helped largely by the “gringo” card (though I also did okay in the USA at that time) and a vastly overinflated ego.

But then I came here to Spain and faced a month of straight blow-outs. The girls of southern Europe are a bit less receptive to day game cold approach, as I found out. I still chuckle to remember the brutal, sarcastic rejections, the “que!?” reactions and the total stonewall ignoring.

In any case, I’ve resolved to push past my “trauma” from that time and give PUA another shot here. So far, my results have been a lot better than before, though still far from ideal. Clearly my fundamentals are much tighter, and I get much warmer reactions in general. I’ve had one date with a Spanish HB8, a couple of insta-dates with tourist girls, and a few number closes, but still getting a lot of ghosting and resistance, not to mention a daily struggle with AA which is holding me back.

There are some things I’ve observed this time around. First, there is a very strong streak of feminism in the culture of southern Spain. I see it in the way the women act - smoking, drinking and shouting like men, and talking in a dominant manner. When I see couples, it’s usually the woman who puts her arm around the man and decides when they kiss.

The men, on the other hand, are well-dressed and well-presented, but seem soft and submissive, often yielding to the women of the group. It’s a stark contrast from more traditional the male-female dynamic I see in other regions like Latin America.

The interesting thing is I’ve noticed this feminist behaviour even in girls from other countries who live here, including Latinas. They very quickly assimilate and imitate the behaviour of local women. It’s quite surprising meeting a Colombian who acts like a haughty Spanish girl.

If I had to make an educated guess, this feminism is a combination of influences from Spanish culture and Gypsy culture (both in which women are empowered), which you can see embodied in Flamenco itself. The dancer, usually a woman, makes forceful, expressive movements and confident poses, while the guitarist and singer (often men) watch and follow her while shouting words of encouragement.

Anyway, aside from daygame, I went out the other night with a Mexican friend from my guitar classes. There aren't that many bars here suited for pickup (most are more like sit-down eateries for tapas and drinks), but we found a couple of reggaeton bars near the university that had a younger and somewhat more approachable crowd.

My friend is a good conversationalist but doesn't know PUA, so I did the majority of the approaches and gave him some tips to overcome AA (the "magic number" and "red, yellow, and green light" concepts from 60YOC). Unfortunately it turned out to be an uneventful night of mostly reds and a couple of yellows. I think I did about 6 sets in total (which was about all I could manage in a bar of that size). Most were just plain uninterested, with the exception of a couple. One was a cute German girl who I met while ordering drinks. She hooked and responded positively to my nonverbals, but wouldn't let me isolate her from her group of German friends.

The second was when I went outside on my own for a smoke. I indirectly opened a Colombian HB7 who immediately hooked and turned to face me. She asked if I was alone, and I told her about my Mexican friend. She said her friend was fetching drinks, and she would ask if she's okay with us all hanging out together. I continued the conversation with the Colombian with a bit of deep diving, holding good eye contact with her.

Then the friend (Spanish-Moroccan) comes back and basically tells me to piss off. She says they were having a conversation among friends and don't want outsiders involved. I tried to get the Colombian's Instagram, which obviously didn't work as her dominant friend now disapproved of me.

In hindsight, perhaps I should have just told her I was actually having a nice conversation with her friend until she interrupted, then said to the Colombian that it's a shame her friend isn't cool like her. I doubt it would've have made any difference (except to my satisfaction), just one of those times I wish I could have been more sharp-tongued in the moment.

Anyway, only got a couple more weeks here. Though I'm mostly focused on my music studies, I'm still going to try make the most of it with at least 4 approaches a day. It would be nice to get at least one lay here so that I can call this a place of good memories and not just a nut that I couldn't crack (pun intended).

 

[gameboy]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who thinks southern Europe is tough! You get like zero gringo bonus there.

And the Andalusian women... beautiful, scantily dressed, but not easy. I agree to your comments about feminisim. But I wouldn't say the guys are submissive. They hit on girls quite a bit in my experience. Much different from northern Europe, where the women will often take the initiative.

But if you speak Spanish or find a girl who likes guiris (gringo in Spain-Spanish), you'll be fine. I found night game there to be very difficult as a foreigner though. Mainly because it's hard to communicate with the loud music everywhere. Easier to meet girls at language exchange or similar events. There you'll also find the ones who like foreigners.

 

[Atlas IV]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who thinks southern Europe is tough! You get like zero gringo bonus there.

Yup. It makes sense as it's an extremely touristic place, and also a collectivist culture where I think people value relationships over individual pursuits. Having social circles here is very important.

And the Andalusian women... beautiful, scantily dressed, but not easy. I agree to your comments about feminisim. But I wouldn't say the guys are submissive. They hit on girls quite a bit in my experience. Much different from northern Europe, where the women will often take the initiative.

I guess it's more just what I've observed in the body language of couples - it seems as if the women like to feel like they're in control. I've heard also from girls that they get chatted up a lot, but I suspect it's often in contexts of existing acquaintanceship. I've not seen regular dudes boldly chatting girls up cold-approach style (like in Rio where it's a daily occurrence).

But if you speak Spanish or find a girl who likes guiris (gringo in Spain-Spanish), you'll be fine. I found night game there to be very difficult as a foreigner though. Mainly because it's hard to communicate with the loud music everywhere. Easier to meet girls at language exchange or similar events. There you'll also find the ones who like foreigners.

That's a good point about screening. The HB8 I got a date with has lived in various countries around Europe, so I probably resemble someone she dated before. I should scout for places where there are more likely to be those kinds of girls with international exposure.

 

[Atlas IV]

28 August 2024

Feeling more on top of things again. After a dry spell, I'm starting to taste abundance. Got a couple of nice submissive girls in regular rotation right now, but I'm confident I'll soon have more.

I attribute this mainly to three things:
1. Moving countries (obviously Asia is much easier for game in general - girls more feminine, easygoing, less infected by Woke culture)
2. Tightened fundamentals - upgraded fashion and hairstyle, I've grown out my hair and found a clean, trendy style based on this article that really suits me. I've noticed a BIG difference in reactions since doing so)
3. Increased confidence (the snowball effect once you start getting back into momentum), which in turn makes me more relaxed. Several girls have asked me "are you always this calm?"

Out of all the concepts in game, there is one I keep returning to, and it's about managing women's emotional states. There are several times now that I've met a girl, had an insta-date with her that went swimmingly (shy, blushing, invested), exchanged numbers, then never heard from her again or got super low texting investment. I'm starting to think that what's happening is I'm creating such a peak in emotional state, that by the time we're texting, her state has dropped, FSC has taken control, and now she's in auto-rejection for whatever reason.

I'm thinking the solution is to agree to a time and place for the next date then and there on the instadate before we exchange contact details. This might reduce the chances of her to going into auto-rejection in order to deal with the negative feelings associated with that inevitable drop in emotional state. In other words, her knowing that she's going to see me again allows her to frame that interaction (the insta-date) as one part of an unfinished story rather than a complete interaction in itself that may or may not be continued.

(@Will_V, could I ask your opinion on this? Do you think I'm in the right line of thinking here?)

Another possibility is that I'm spiking her emotions too much. Often this happens when there was some escalation on the insta-date (light touching, some brief intense eye contact that caused her to blush and look away, etc). We exchange contacts, but then it becomes very difficult to get her out again (low compliance, slow texting, making excuses, or just straight-up ghosting). Again, I attribute this to Female State Control - after the whirlwind of excitement from the insta-date, her rational mind takes over and she decides she shouldn't have let herself get so ahead of herself with someone she hardly knows.

I really enjoy doing insta-dates. It gets the ball rolling quickly, allows me to build rapport with her way more efficiently than setting up a date via texting, and builds positive momentum for me. Yet, perplexingly, it seems to result in more ghosting than interactions that were quick (5-10 minutes followed by exchanging contacts). Most likely it's just killing the sense of mystery. Instadate followed by number close seems to be the sweet spot of death - it's long enough for her to learn enough about me that she gets what I'm about (probably spoiling whatever fantasy she might have had about me), but it's not long enough for me to run a full seduction and actually take her home.

So she ends up thinking "that guy was nice, but I don't really know if I want that right now" rather than "that guy was interesting, I wonder what his deal is?"

I feel like preserving the sense of mystery, and by extension her ability to fantasize about me, may be the solution to this problem.

 

[Will_V]

Out of all the concepts in game, there is one I keep returning to, and it's about managing women's emotional states. There are several times now that I've met a girl, had an insta-date with her that went swimmingly (shy, blushing, invested), exchanged numbers, then never heard from her again or got super low texting investment. I'm starting to think that what's happening is I'm creating such a peak in emotional state, that by the time we're texting, her state has dropped, FSC has taken control, and now she's in auto-rejection for whatever reason.

I'm thinking the solution is to agree to a time and place for the next date then and there on the instadate before we exchange contact details. This might reduce the chances of her to going into auto-rejection in order to deal with the negative feelings associated with that inevitable drop in emotional state. In other words, her knowing that she's going to see me again allows her to frame that interaction (the insta-date) as one part of an unfinished story rather than a complete interaction in itself that may or may not be continued.

(@Will_V, could I ask your opinion on this? Do you think I'm in the right line of thinking here?)

Another possibility is that I'm spiking her emotions too much. Often this happens when there was some escalation on the insta-date (light touching, some brief intense eye contact that caused her to blush and look away, etc). We exchange contacts, but then it becomes very difficult to get her out again (low compliance, slow texting, making excuses, or just straight-up ghosting). Again, I attribute this to Female State Control - after the whirlwind of excitement from the insta-date, her rational mind takes over and she decides she shouldn't have let herself get so ahead of herself with someone she hardly knows.

I really enjoy doing insta-dates. It gets the ball rolling quickly, allows me to build rapport with her way more efficiently than setting up a date via texting, and builds positive momentum for me. Yet, perplexingly, it seems to result in more ghosting than interactions that were quick (5-10 minutes followed by exchanging contacts). Most likely it's just killing the sense of mystery. Instadate followed by number close seems to be the sweet spot of death - it's long enough for her to learn enough about me that she gets what I'm about (probably spoiling whatever fantasy she might have had about me), but it's not long enough for me to run a full seduction and actually take her home.

So she ends up thinking "that guy was nice, but I don't really know if I want that right now" rather than "that guy was interesting, I wonder what his deal is?"

I feel like preserving the sense of mystery, and by extension her ability to fantasize about me, may be the solution to this problem.

You're definitely thinking along the right lines.

I don't often do instant dates, but when I do, I always try to take her home afterward. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But when it does work it works very well i.e. she's very enthusiastic and energetic in bed. And I believe the reason why is that she's riding a wave of positive emotion all the way to bed.

Think about it from her perspective: she's just standing there, and you come along and open her, you show interest, and you give her a fun time talking during the approach. During the conversation, you invite her to the instadate, and she's feeling great so she's happy to accept.

Now she's on a date, she's got your full attention, your conversation, and she finds out all sorts of stuff about you and reveals a whole bunch of stuff about herself. And she's still having a great time.

Now things can go two ways: you can invite her home, or you can do the instadate and then see her another day.

In the first scenario, if she's feeling really good, her emotions are high and she's aroused, she may well come home just to continue the exciting experience and ride the wave all the way.

But in the second scenario, where you just exchanged numbers and parted ways, when she's alone again and her emotions have come down, there's a big problem. Her thought process may be as follows:

- This guy appeared out of nowhere
- He made me feel really good and gave me loads of positive emotion
- He gave me lots of his time and attention
- I revealed a lot about myself to him, and I have essentially a 'first date' level of information about him
- Yet I've invested nothing substantial, it was all basically 'for free'. If we see eachother again he'll probably want something from me, will I be able to give it?

She might feel insecure about the amount of investment 'debt', when she never had any chance to chase you, to wonder about you, to prepare for you the way girls do before 'proper' dates. For girls, there isn't a huge difference between emotional investment and actual investment, and she's done neither at this point. And if she sees you again, you're probably going to want something, and she'll be already in debt.

Since she invested nothing, and there's no mystery any more, it's very easy for her to decide that this was just a fun encounter and move on.

My suggestion would be to do instadates in scenarios where:

- You both clearly have plenty of time to kill
- Your place is very close at hand
- There's plenty of chemistry
- You invite her straight home at the end

Otherwise personally I'd do the normal date thing.

If I was going to do an instadate where I couldn't take her home, I would:

- Keep it short
- Be sure to qualify her on the things I like about her
- Keep a very low-key sexual frame
- Set future projections

For example, let's say we're talking about our favorite life experiences. I might open my mouth to say something and then catch myself, smile and say "I'll tell you another time when we know eachother better .. so what made you want to visit Japan?" or whatever.

Or let's say we both like hiking, I might say "hm I'll have to show you a place sometime when we have more free time" etc.

So she's thinking "there's a lot more to find out I don't know about", layers to unwrap, curiosity to satisfy, things to experience with me.

Also you can make it clear to her that she still has things to prove, even something direct and playful like "I'm still not sure about you" <smile seductively> "but I'd like to find out more when we have more time". And then she might ask what it is you're not sure about, and you can do a bit of push/pull etc.

 

[Atlas IV]

She might feel insecure about the amount of investment 'debt', when she never had any chance to chase you, to wonder about you, to prepare for you the way girls do before 'proper' dates. For girls, there isn't a huge difference between emotional investment and actual investment, and she's done neither at this point. And if she sees you again, you're probably going to want something, and she'll be already in debt.

This is an interesting way of thinking about it. Perhaps in other words, the anticipation (or fantasizing) about you that she would normally have before a date is denied to her since you've already revealed so much to each other, and now all that's left is an unbalanced level of investment in her favor (since she didn't have to do anything for the instadate to happen) which she feels little obligation to rebalance?

This makes sense to me, and I suspect it even ties in with my point about FSC since she now expects you're going to want something (probably sexual) if you meet again, and so there may be a voice in her head telling her she's a slut if she decides to meet you again.

Wouldn't you say though that her agreeing to the insta-date itself is a form of investment? Perhaps it's not enough to counterbalance the loss of intrigue?

If I was going to do an instadate where I couldn't take her home, I would:

- Keep it short
- Be sure to qualify her on the things I like about her
- Keep a very low-key sexual frame
- Set future projections

For example, let's say we're talking about our favorite life experiences. I might open my mouth to say something and then catch myself, smile and say "I'll tell you another time when we know eachother better .. so what made you want to visit Japan?" or whatever.

Or let's say we both like hiking, I might say "hm I'll have to show you a place sometime when we have more free time" etc.

So she's thinking "there's a lot more to find out I don't know about", layers to unwrap, curiosity to satisfy, things to experience with me.

Also you can make it clear to her that she still has things to prove, even something direct and playful like "I'm still not sure about you" <smile seductively> "but I'd like to find out more when we have more time". And then she might ask what it is you're not sure about, and you can do a bit of push/pull etc.

Yes, 100% agree with all this. Qualifying her is an absolute must to keep her from thinking she's already got you. Setting future projections is something I rarely do, but I can see making a massive difference here as well as introducing a playful vibe to the interaction.

I should come up with a list of qualifications and future projections to fall back on in case I can't think of anything in the moment. I did this with sex talk gambits and it was a game-changer for me, but those gambits are too raunchy for insta-dates. I need to think of some low-key ones based more on qualifying her personality, passions, etc.

Thanks for your response!

 

[Will_V]

This is an interesting way of thinking about it. Perhaps in other words, the anticipation (or fantasizing) about you that she would normally have before a date is denied to her since you've already revealed so much to each other, and now all that's left is an unbalanced level of investment in her favor (since she didn't have to do anything for the instadate to happen) which she feels little obligation to rebalance?

Yes, definitely there is less mystery and less anticipation. Because at this point, what is she going to find out about you on the next date that she would need to know before having sex? The instadate was the date.

It's probably best to think of it like a typical first date, where at the end you just said 'text me' and walked off.

This makes sense to me, and I suspect it even ties in with my point about FSC since she now expects you're going to want something (probably sexual) if you meet again, and so there may be a voice in her head telling her she's a slut if she decides to meet you again.

There's definitely some aspect of her feeling the emotional high (approach + date) followed by a drop (going to text), and ending up feeling like too much happened too soon.

There's also the fact that you invested a lot in her without it being reciprocated, either by actual investment (sex) or emotional investment (her chasing and wanting you without it being clear that she can get you).

It all just kind of happened to her as she walked along.

Wouldn't you say though that her agreeing to the insta-date itself is a form of investment? Perhaps it's not enough to counterbalance the loss of intrigue?

Not really, no. Girls are fundamentally aware that attention from a guy is investment from him, whereas attention from a girl is not particularly valuable to him. She knows that she was the much greater recipient of investment here.

That's a bit different when she's chasing you or feels like there's an element of her having to qualify to you, jump through hoops for you, and prove herself to you, because girls only do that for guys they really like and want.

Girls are emotional creatures, her emotions guide her behavior. She doesn't have to actually invest anything, she just has to feel like she's investing.

Yes, 100% agree with all this. Qualifying her is an absolute must to keep her from thinking she's already got you.

Not exactly, qualifying is more so to make it clear to her that the investment and interest she's getting is something she earned, rather than just getting it for being hot. Qualifying is something like "I like X about you that other girls (even hot ones) don't have".

It's most important for times when she's not with you and she's wondering why you like her and whether she should see you. That's why lack of qualifying leads to flaky numbers.

Setting future projections is something I rarely do, but I can see making a massive difference here as well as introducing a playful vibe to the interaction.

Yeah, the crucial frame here, in the case of an instadate, is the one of "this was just the preliminary interview, next time is the real one, and you haven't been chosen yet". It's a way to set her anticipation for the future, make her feel like she didn't get the blue ribbon yet, and be more likely to want and expect something from that future. All she got today was a taste.

I should come up with a list of qualifications and future projections to fall back on in case I can't think of anything in the moment. I did this with sex talk gambits and it was a game-changer for me, but those gambits are too raunchy for insta-dates. I need to think of some low-key ones based more on qualifying her personality, passions, etc.

Yeah you don't want to be setting too strong sexual frames when you aren't going to be taking her home, it releases all the tension and mystery.

...

I want to be clear though, the way you handle instadates when you are going to be inviting her home is very different. Then, you want to spike her emotions, set sexual frames, get her aroused, disqualify yourself as a bf, etc because what will make her come home with you (if she decides to) is her emotional high and arousal.

 

[Atlas IV]

@Will_V, lots of useful points here. This clarifies a lot for me in how I'm going to strategize my instadates going forward - based around qualification, future projection and maintaining a sense of mystery with only a hint of sexual framing.

Thanks for your insights!

 

[Will_V]

@Will_V, lots of useful points here. This clarifies a lot for me in how I'm going to strategize my instadates going forward - based around qualification, future projection and maintaining a sense of mystery with only a hint of sexual framing.

Thanks for your insights!

Don't forget to try inviting her home from the instadate sometimes, you'd be surprised.

Tourists, girls who've recently come out of a relationship, and girls who are for whatever reason in a novelty-seeking phase of life seem to be the most into coming home straight away, because they are looking for fun.