Attachment styles... are they really a thing?

[DarkJedi]

This has been an extremely interesting discussion. Thanks @Karea Ricardus D. for bringing it up.

I have been working on my attachment style for a few years and I really think attachment theory is a great lens/framework to figuring out your relationships, both romantic and otherwise. And yes, you can have different attachments also depending on the relationship. I'm securely attached to my mom, while very avoidant with my dad for example. I'm disorganized with my romantic partners, with my anxious or avoidant side being shown more, depending on who I am with.

I think the passion trap concept and attachment styles work in tandem. The passion trap shows what's going on with you and a specific partner, but your attachment style modulates or amplifies which position you lean towards in the relationship:

• Anxious: Very high chance of being pushed to the one-down side, because they always have a tendency to need the other person more. With securely attached people, they'd probably be starting off one-down, and with avoidants, they'd be heavily one-down. With another anxious person, it would probably depend on who's more leaning anxious
• Dismissive Avoidants: These are the ones who don't have attachment anxiety. High chance of being on the one-up throughout a relationship. When they perceive the tables turning, they'd rather exit the relationship than be one-down.
• Disorganized/Fearful Avoidants: Have both sides in them, and can sway very easily to being anxious (one-down) and avoidant (one-up), depending on how the partner is acting. And they can hit both extremes of avoidance or anxiety.
• Secure: They can sway both sides too, but the key difference is that they don't move to any direction too much before being able to self-correct and "fix" the situation. They have more emotional resilience to not get sucked into a grossly unfavourable dynamic for too long. They'll either try to fix it with healthy communication (instead of manipulation like the insecure styles) or exit the relationship.

As a disorganized avoidant myself I've gone into the situation that Karea describes about his friend: I go in very avoidant into a relationship, girl chasing me hard etc. Somewhere down the line I start being more vulnerable, which at some point triggers the anxious side.

Both types of avoidants basically have negative associations with vulnerability. They don't trust that the other person will have their best interests. The dismissive thus keeps himself closed off, being fully self-reliant and not needing to be vulnerable. The disorganized one, because of the anxious tendencies, feels the need to be vulnerable but at the same time doesn't trust the person he's being vulnerable with.

In the past years, I have worked on my attachment behaviours on a superficial level. Whenever my attachment would get triggered hard, especially on the anxious side, I would just force myself to not act on them. So, on the outside the girl would see me as a secure or avoidant. So, essentially it was like outer-game. But inside I'd still feel like a mess.

The way to look at it which has helped me more lately is trust. The secure person trusts himself to take care of himself, and also trusts the outside world to take care of his needs. The anxious trusts the world but not himself, so he clings to the world. The dismissive doesn't trust the world, but is self-reliant. The disorganized trusts no one.

So, the way to being more secure as a disorganized attacher is to develop trust on yourself and on the outside world. I have been practicing to be more vulnerable from the start of a relationship, and being accepting that it might still all go to shit, and I will still be ok.

Vulnerability has been a tricky concept to grasp for me, especially to be vulnerable and not be needy. My avoidant side has a tendency to consider all vulnerability to be neediness. Took me a while to understand that vulnerability from a point of strength is not neediness, and is good.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
DarkJedi

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Hey man, that was a great post, thanks for sharing. That all makes a lot of sense to me. I've been deliberately acting (outer-game) as secure attachment style with the girl I'm with right now, too: communicating instead of playing games, willing to open myself to her while simultaneously also willing to walk away from the relationship if it turns out negative.

The willingness to lose a girl / to walk away is crucial IME. With one of my first girlfriends (20 years ago), I turned one-down after 2 months of the relationship because she instigated a breakup and I started chasing hard. I just didn't want to lose her under any circumstances. If I had just been like "okay, fine... let's break up then", the entire passion trap dynamic may have been avoidable.

In the past years, I have worked on my attachment behaviours on a superficial level.

After reading the passion trap book in 2006, I started modifying my behaviors, but I realize that I was basically acting more avoidant. With these new insights now, I'm working on modifying my behaviors to act more secure rather than avoidant. Let's see how this works out... the jury is still out.

What I'm really interested in is the deeper inner game change, to permanently transform my attachment style from disorganized to secure. I believe this will come down to healing childhood stuff, family stuff, past relationships and other traumas. Have you done any of that kind of work @DarkJedi, and if so, how?

 

[DarkJedi]

Glad to be of help @Karea Ricardus D.

The willingness to lose a girl / to walk away is crucial IME. With one of my first girlfriends (20 years ago), I turned one-down after 2 months of the relationship because she instigated a breakup and I started chasing hard. I just didn't want to lose her under any circumstances. If I had just been like "okay, fine... let's break up then", the entire passion trap dynamic may have been avoidable.

Exactly, I think the same, and it should be coming from a healthy place within. A pure dismissive avoidant is also good at walking away. I have a pure DA friend who never had a relationship longer than 4 months, since he bails at the slightest sign of vulnerability or trouble. He's never seen as weak, but he's never had strong fulfilling connections with any girl.

As for me, I could walk away from a girl that I find to be ok but not spectacular. But if I really like someone and feel connected on a deep level, it is extremely hard for me to walk away even if circumstances become unfavorable. I will detach at some point, but after chasing hard, prolonging the inevitable and making myself miserable. Things have improved than 5 years ago but who knows if there'll be that unicorn girl who could get me sucked in!

I think that a securely attached person person should be able to walk away, even if the girl is high quality. Its a question of self-love. To someone securely attached, their self matters more than having that other person in their lives.

What I'm really interested in is the deeper inner game change, to permanently transform my attachment style from disorganized to secure. I believe this will come down to healing childhood stuff, family stuff, past relationships and other traumas. Have you done any of that kind of work @DarkJedi, and if so, how?

I'm still on the journey towards secure, but I can suggest some stuff that has helped.

I think we need both outer- and inner-game work, just like the old PUA community used to say. The outer stuff definitely helps to attract and keep healthier relationships. The inner stuff solidifies it.

What has helped me, in no particular order:

• Really deeply understanding my attachment style and try to connect it to how you were raised as a child. Awareness is the first step
• Practicing vulnerability with who you date. The idea is you should become more ok with expressing vulnerability and not feel threatened by it. When we're not being vulnerable, we're basically telling ourselves that other people don't care about our needs. We need evidence to the contrary.
• Dating more emotionally healthy people for long-term relationships.
• Practicing being there for yourself. Essentially learning that you're an adult now and you will be fine and can take care of your emotional needs yourself. When I've felt attachment anxiety and abandonment fears, what has helped me is to visualize myself talking to my inner child and telling him "I will take care of you, there's no need to worry". -> I know this sounds woo-woo, but it works for me
• Having some models of secure relationships in your life. I dated a girl last year who went from disorganized to secure herself. I broke up with her at some point and now we're very good friends and she's a good sounding board for these stuff

Therapy
Right forms of therapy should also help. You could check out Schema Therapy or Integrated Family Systems (IFS) therapy. CBT does not help I feel because it doesn't go deep enough and is only concerned with the present.

Other resources
There are some YouTube channels focused on attachment theory which have helped me. Thais Gibson (Peronal Development School) and Heidi Priebe are both people who were originally disorganized and have moved to being secure.
This is a new one that talks about how things look different from a secure perspective

One from Heidi:

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Great stuff man, all that makes a lot of sense. Appreciate your contributions to this thread!