Date Plans Attention-seeker or did I make any mistakes?

[Higher]

Hi gurus, I need your insights on this one. I'm tryna understand if this girl was an attention-seeker and not really open to be seduced, or if I made any obvious mistakes (or both).

--

The girl​

I spot this Asian girl while daygaming today. She's dressed to the nines, super sexy, she has a great body and fake eyelashes/quite some makeup. I'm already getting attention-seeker vibes here.

Opening and first compliance tests​

I open with my usual pic opener. She's a bit hesitant, probably not happy to talk to strangers in general. She complies tho. I then compliment her, ask if she's single, and she tells me she is. Then I ask her about her schedule -- she's free for the day and leaves tomorrow. Good.

I suggest we walk a bit together while I'm looking for a good coffee place. She agrees and tells me that she's hungry and asks me about tips on any good restaurants in the area. I tell her that I don't really know the area -- I live in another city 20 mins from there. We stop for a second while she checks some restaurants on her phone. She asks me if I'm hungry, I tell her no, I ate already.

She manages to find a restaurant. So far I suspect she just wants to have platonic company for the day, so I tell her, ok I'll take you there and then I'll leave you. She says ok, and off we go.

On the way to the restaurant I deep-dive a bit. She's a college student and she's tackling pretty advanced biology stuff. I switch to more interesting topics, especially traveling and what she's looking for in this city. She tells me she's sorta improvising -- I like that and I qualify her.

Getting her number​

We reach the restaurant. I tell her, look I'm going now, but maybe we catch up later. She's not thrilled. I tell her I'm a good guy, and she says alright, and we exchange phone numbers. Her vibe so far was not great in general. She seems naturally extroverted, but it's her first time here and maybe she's a bit on guard. Anyway she complies to the phone number, so that's still progress.

Texting​

So I leave her at around 12, and I send her an icebreaker. She replies one hour later. After a bit of back and forth, I suggest we catch up in 15-20 mins in the city. She asks me to postpone 10 mins, because she wants to go back to her hotel for a bit. I tell her no prob, thinking that maybe she wants to freshen up a bit. Her vibe seems to be a bit better now, maybe she's opening up a bit, so this is all good in my mind.

Date​

So we catch up at the place we agreed. I kiss her on the cheek and I suggest we grab a coffee nearby. While walking I keep some light banter going. We get coffee and we go sit at the river, a bit off the beaten track.

From then on I deep-dive a bit more and I throw in some teasing/banter/microescalations and all that good stuff. I keep some good eye contact and also touch her lightly. Every time I touch her legs, she proceeds to caress that area afterwards while talking.

I steer the convo to dating and love languages. She tells me she had a casual relationship until a few months ago and that her love language is giving quality time to the person she loves, while also expecting he's always available for her no matter what he's doing.

She tells me that she cannot do casual things anymore because she tends to get attached. She also challenges me on the love language topic, saying that when people told her in the past that their love language is touch, it always seemed to her that they were trying to get in her pants, since they were not really congruent in their touching patterns. Maybe she saw the same pattern in what I was doing, and she slotted me in the wannabe lover pocket with all the others before me.

We talk about creativity and living in the present. I tell her that I do a bit of art and that, had we been in my city, I'd invite her over to check my paintings out. She tells me it's cool and we switch topics again.

I take her hands a few times, and tell her that I know how to read hands. She tells me it's bullshit. I tell her with a smile, hey if you don't believe it it's fine, and I put her hand back on her leg and casually change topic. Was hoping she'd change her mind and ask me to read it.

Moving her again​

In general I don't feel this girl is open to be seduced, but she's been fairly compliant so far, so I move her again. We walk a bit and I suggest we grab some wine, but she's not down. We decide to go to the lake. On the way there, we walk quite close together. Our arms brush together and at times I take her hand and lead her. She never really rejects me, but never fully opens up her hand for me either.

While on the way she becomes more silent, and I also shut up a bit. She initiates a few times, and we end up talking about people in some countries she lived in hypnotizing other people to rob them. At one point I show her a map of my city and a few pics of the lake and sunsets there. She tells me she's not impressed, she's seen way better sunsets and proceeds to show me some pics that also show her in bikini and in various sexy poses.

Going for the close​

At the lake I think to myself, ok let's make one final move, and if it crashes and burns, so be it. So I sorta soft-close, telling her, hey I would invite you to my city right now, but we wouldn't see any sunset today since it's cloudy. She tells me, yeah, it doesn't seem to be the right day. After a bit of back and forth she tells me, should we part ways? I agree, we chit-chat a bit and we do part ways a few mins later.

--​

So from my perspective:
- I think I did all the work; I could have been more of a challenge by giving her mixed signals/less attention/playing more hard to get (she was clearly sure she had me by the balls)
- I could have ramped up the sexual tension by talking way less and asking for more physical compliance -- e.g. asking her to move close to me when we were seated; however I don't feel I was doing that bad overall
- I suspect that my close attempt fully validated her and that I had no more to offer to her at that point (she probably thought I was just like any other dude)
- maybe she was not even open to be seduced

What do you guys think? Is my diagnosis correct?

Thanks for reading!

 

[FunGuy]

This was an excellent read Higher. Also great job with the approach and date! From the question u posted on the thread title, I wasn't getting attention seeker vibes but let me just think out loud to things that popped in my head while reading ur post in case it might be useful.

I suggest we walk a bit together while I'm looking for a good coffee place. She agrees and tells me that she's hungry and asks me about tips on any good restaurants in the area. I tell her that I don't really know the area -- I live in another city 20 mins from there. We stop for a second while she checks some restaurants on her phone. She asks me if I'm hungry, I tell her no, I ate already.

She manages to find a restaurant. So far I suspect she just wants to have platonic company for the day, so I tell her, ok I'll take you there and then I'll leave you. She says ok, and off we go.

Excellent job at avoiding going to the restaurant with her. I was getting "I just want a free meal" vibes from her. Especially since you had mentioned that her energy wasn't too enthusiastic during the interaction.

We reach the restaurant. I tell her, look I'm going now, but maybe we catch up later. She's not thrilled. I tell her I'm a good guy, and she says alright, and we exchange phone numbers. Her vibe so far was not great in general. She seems naturally extroverted, but it's her first time here and maybe she's a bit on guard. Anyway she complies to the phone number, so that's still progress.

For the bolded part, initially I didn't think much of it until I read some of the stuff she was saying during the date. I might be overreacting but telling her you were a good guy might have set the wrong frame in this particular situation. I will elaborate on that later once I get to that part.

So I leave her at around 12, and I send her an icebreaker. She replies one hour later. After a bit of back and forth, I suggest we catch up in 15-20 mins in the city. She asks me to postpone 10 mins, because she wants to go back to her hotel for a bit. I tell her no prob, thinking that maybe she wants to freshen up a bit. Her vibe seems to be a bit better now, maybe she's opening up a bit, so this is all good in my mind.

Excellent job with the texting and pushing things forward. The only thing I wanted to point out was that it was unclear if during the text exchange she had implied first that she was going to be free in 15-20 mins or if you just made that suggestion without knowing her schedule first. Its always more strategic to ping for her availability and logistics first before you setup a time and day for the date.

I steer the convo to dating and love languages. She tells me she had a casual relationship until a few months ago and that her love language is giving quality time to the person she loves, while also expecting he's always available for her no matter what he's doing.

She tells me that she cannot do casual things anymore because she tends to get attached. She also challenges me on the love language topic, saying that when people told her in the past that their love language is touch, it always seemed to her that they were trying to get in her pants, since they were not really congruent in their touching patterns. Maybe she saw the same pattern in what I was doing, and she slotted me in the wannabe lover pocket with all the others before me.

For the bolded parts she was trying to boyfriend frame you hard. It's a bit unclear on how you handled this but I assume that you ignored it and stacked forward. Everything she was saying kinda gives the impression that you were giving off too much good guy and bf material vibes and missing a lot of sexualized verbals or framing urself as a sexual dude. This was the part I was referring to earlier where saying "Ur a good guy" could have worked against you while you were number closing.

Overall you did a very good job and the only potential issue I can think of is that you might not have sexualized verbally enough to frame yourself as a sexual dude. You can most likely still get somewhere with this chick but you kinda pigeon holed urself into a bf frame so moving forward you have to be extremely careful and creative with how you sexualize ur interactions with her. My suggestion would be to try to get her out on another date and close ASAP because I get the feeling she is going to try and put you through a lot of annoying hoops due to the stuff she was saying ("while also expecting he's always available for her no matter what he's doing").

 

[Higher]

Thanks a lot @FunGuy for your detailed answer, you gave me some good food for thought.

it was unclear if during the text exchange she had implied first that she was going to be free in 15-20 mins or if you just made that suggestion without knowing her schedule first.

Yeah, should have added more details here.

After her reply to my ice-breaker, i wrote her, had decent food?. She replied with a double text, and then i asked her where she was. She told me, im at X. I then told her, cool i gotta check a store in that area, wanna catch up there for a coffee? To which she replied, sureee. Thats when i sent her the "lets do in 15-20 min?" text.

she was trying to boyfriend frame you hard. It's a bit unclear on how you handled this but I assume that you ignored it and stacked forward.

Hmm i think i teased her a bit with an agree & amplify kinda thing - i.e. picturing the guy in some absurd situation while still being under pressure to answer her call - and then changing topic.

Everything she was saying kinda gives the impression that you were giving off too much good guy and bf material vibes and missing a lot of sexualized verbals or framing urself as a sexual dude.

Yeah man, this is like a curse.

I tried multiple times in the past to introduce sex talk with other girls, and i clearly mustve been doing it wrong cause i always got massive resistance. Thats why im experimenting with microescalations now - i.e. vibe escalations instead of physical/verbal ones.

Maybe this particular girl just needed a strong lover vibe from me (as you said), plus mixed signals to sorta make her unsure if she had me.

Or maybe she was just not really horny, no matter what i could have done.

My suggestion would be to try to get her out on another date and close ASAP

Unfortunately this was my only shot, as it was her last day in the city.

What i dont get is, she seemed to give many signs of interest:
- she was generally compliant to me moving her/asking for her hand, altho maybe not fully giving in; she never rejected me tho;
- her touching her own leg after i touched it;
- at some point she was moving her eyes quickly from my eyes to my lips and viceversa;
- while walking, we were brushing against each other constantly;
- at the end she kept showing off her body and her bikini pics, tho she might have done this just for the attention.

We were not in my city, so logistics were against me. Her hotel was the only option.

Im missing what the right move was here. Maybe a kiss? Maybe keeping escalating the vibe and increasing touch as a reward for compliance until she invites me over at her place? Like, i have no idea how that would have happened otherwise.

 

[Atlas IV]

I think you did a pretty good job, can't see any blatant mistakes in your game. From what you described of the girl (dressed to the nines, fake eyelashes, sexy body), she sounds like a classy glam Instagram model with probably thousands of simps trying to get in her pants, so you had your work cut out for you in terms of frame control.

I tried multiple times in the past to introduce sex talk with other girls, and i clearly mustve been doing it wrong cause i always got massive resistance. Thats why im experimenting with microescalations now - i.e. vibe escalations instead of physical/verbal ones.

A Gunwitch-style emotional stimulator might have worked well here, something to get her emotionally invested while complying with your social frame. Since she's Asian, maybe you could have shared a story about how it felt to move to a new city/country for the first time (nervousness -> relief -> excitement), then ask her about her own experience moving abroad? This could be a great avenue to sex talk (moving abroad -> new friends -> new lovers -> sexual experiences).

- at the end she kept showing off her body and her bikini pics, tho she might have done this just for the attention.

This was certainly a shit test. She was trying to see if you're just another simp whose gonna compliment her on her looks and like all her Instagram pics. I would have flipped the frame on her by teasing - maybe something like: "What are you trying to do, seduce me with this? Come on girl, I can see right through you. You've gotta try better than that!"

 

[Will_V]

@Higher there weren't any blunders here but the seduction itself hit some major snags that you didn't quite free it from.

The girl​

I spot this Asian girl while daygaming today. She's dressed to the nines, super sexy, she has a great body and fake eyelashes/quite some makeup. I'm already getting attention-seeker vibes here.

I get the sense she's in some ways a worldly girl and in some ways not. Like she's used to operating in an environment where guys are orbiting around trying to give her attention and get in her pants, but that her personality is much more sensitive and intimate. So I wouldn't say that she's an attention seeker but that she's used to living in an attention-seeking world.

In some ways this is the type of girl who can be the most down for something different, and perhaps she was but her guard threw you off your game a little.

Opening and first compliance tests​

I open with my usual pic opener. She's a bit hesitant, probably not happy to talk to strangers in general. She complies tho. I then compliment her, ask if she's single, and she tells me she is. Then I ask her about her schedule -- she's free for the day and leaves tomorrow. Good.

When a girl is comfortable enough to tell you right off the bat that she's single and free for the day suggests that she's going to be open for something, regardless of any apparent wariness.

I suggest we walk a bit together while I'm looking for a good coffee place. She agrees and tells me that she's hungry and asks me about tips on any good restaurants in the area. I tell her that I don't really know the area -- I live in another city 20 mins from there. We stop for a second while she checks some restaurants on her phone. She asks me if I'm hungry, I tell her no, I ate already.

She manages to find a restaurant. So far I suspect she just wants to have platonic company for the day, so I tell her, ok I'll take you there and then I'll leave you. She says ok, and off we go.

Not an ideal frame, you are going where she's going (is it even on your way?) only to disappear once you get there, not the most dominant frame to have. It probably would have been better to try and take her to a little cafe for an insta date, if she complains you can say something like 'hey we just met, maybe later on down the track I'll take you to restaurant dinners but I want to get to know you first '

On the way to the restaurant I deep-dive a bit. She's a college student and she's tackling pretty advanced biology stuff. I switch to more interesting topics, especially traveling and what she's looking for in this city. She tells me she's sorta improvising -- I like that and I qualify her.

Good.

Getting her number​

We reach the restaurant. I tell her, look I'm going now, but maybe we catch up later. She's not thrilled. I tell her I'm a good guy, and she says alright, and we exchange phone numbers. Her vibe so far was not great in general. She seems naturally extroverted, but it's her first time here and maybe she's a bit on guard. Anyway she complies to the phone number, so that's still progress.

I think your frame of following her to her place of eating and then disappearing with the phone number might have given her some questioning vibes here, but fine, you got it and turned it into a date.

Texting​

So I leave her at around 12, and I send her an icebreaker. She replies one hour later. After a bit of back and forth, I suggest we catch up in 15-20 mins in the city. She asks me to postpone 10 mins, because she wants to go back to her hotel for a bit. I tell her no prob, thinking that maybe she wants to freshen up a bit. Her vibe seems to be a bit better now, maybe she's opening up a bit, so this is all good in my mind.

Date​

So we catch up at the place we agreed. I kiss her on the cheek and I suggest we grab a coffee nearby. While walking I keep some light banter going. We get coffee and we go sit at the river, a bit off the beaten track.

From then on I deep-dive a bit more and I throw in some teasing/banter/microescalations and all that good stuff. I keep some good eye contact and also touch her lightly. Every time I touch her legs, she proceeds to caress that area afterwards while talking.

So your touch worked very well, and I think that one of the main issues with the whole seduction was not being confident and forward enough physically. I would have escalated the touch progressively until there was some kind of resistance and only then sat back with a smile and a wink. Two steps forward and one step back is my modus operandi.

I steer the convo to dating and love languages. She tells me she had a casual relationship until a few months ago and that her love language is giving quality time to the person she loves, while also expecting he's always available for her no matter what he's doing.

She tells me that she cannot do casual things anymore because she tends to get attached. She also challenges me on the love language topic, saying that when people told her in the past that their love language is touch, it always seemed to her that they were trying to get in her pants, since they were not really congruent in their touching patterns. Maybe she saw the same pattern in what I was doing, and she slotted me in the wannabe lover pocket with all the others before me.

Perhaps she made you start second guessing your touching skills/motivations here? When she comes with a frame like that you have to simply take the opportunity to differentiate yourself.

'oh yeah I know, there's guys out there that have no idea how to touch a girl and just use an excuse like that'. And thirty seconds later start caressing her again.

We talk about creativity and living in the present. I tell her that I do a bit of art and that, had we been in my city, I'd invite her over to check my paintings out. She tells me it's cool and we switch topics again.

Not a good move, since you are offering something and then saying why it can't be given + telling her your logistics are bad + that she won't be coming to your place today ... no wonder she's miffed.

I take her hands a few times, and tell her that I know how to read hands. She tells me it's bullshit. I tell her with a smile, hey if you don't believe it it's fine, and I put her hand back on her leg and casually change topic. Was hoping she'd change her mind and ask me to read it.

Nope. Problem is that if she doesn't take the bait it looks like you were weak and she shut you down on the spot and you accepted it. At a minimum even if you decide the idea isn't worth it, you need to tease her and rebalance the frame.

Moving her again​

In general I don't feel this girl is open to be seduced, but she's been fairly compliant so far, so I move her again. We walk a bit and I suggest we grab some wine, but she's not down. We decide to go to the lake. On the way there, we walk quite close together. Our arms brush together and at times I take her hand and lead her. She never really rejects me, but never fully opens up her hand for me either.

Well ok she's leaving tomorrow, this guy has said his place is too far away and also seems a bit hesitant to get physical, now she's here with you holding her hand, here's where she's thinking: "so where is this going exactly?"

While on the way she becomes more silent, and I also shut up a bit. She initiates a few times, and we end up talking about people in some countries she lived in hypnotizing other people to rob them. At one point I show her a map of my city and a few pics of the lake and sunsets there. She tells me she's not impressed, she's seen way better sunsets and proceeds to show me some pics that also show her in bikini and in various sexy poses.

Now she's starting to pull out of the seduction, since it's going nowhere, to get her confidence back up she's going to tell you that she's seen better sunsets and that she's on the market.

Going for the close​

At the lake I think to myself, ok let's make one final move, and if it crashes and burns, so be it. So I sorta soft-close, telling her, hey I would invite you to my city right now, but we wouldn't see any sunset today since it's cloudy. She tells me, yeah, it doesn't seem to be the right day. After a bit of back and forth she tells me, should we part ways? I agree, we chit-chat a bit and we do part ways a few mins later.

That's a weak and dithering frame, like you offer something but then downplay it as if you didn't really want it to happen, almost like it was mandatory to offer but you didn't want to.

Imagine a guy friend of yours says when you imply you need help with something.

"I'd help you but I'm really not very good at XYZ". In other words, "don't ask me".

--​

So from my perspective:
- I think I did all the work; I could have been more of a challenge by giving her mixed signals/less attention/playing more hard to get (she was clearly sure she had me by the balls)
- I could have ramped up the sexual tension by talking way less and asking for more physical compliance -- e.g. asking her to move close to me when we were seated; however I don't feel I was doing that bad overall
- I suspect that my close attempt fully validated her and that I had no more to offer to her at that point (she probably thought I was just like any other dude)
- maybe she was not even open to be seduced

What do you guys think? Is my diagnosis correct?

Thanks for reading!

The main problems here were:

1. You didn't have your logistics sorted
2. You were unconfident and flip-floppy when moving the seduction along. She's single and here for one day dude, either she wants to get banged in your apartment or there's nothing there.
3. You allowed her guard to throw you off at key points, seems like you gave her too much 'respect' for apparently being an upper league girl and didn't just treat her like another hungry little kitten that just wants to get filled up.
4. You didn't own your physicality with her enough, if she's enjoying something you're doing, move it up a notch.

I always try to be as blunt as possible when I give feedback so that things are clear as day, but you did a lot of things well here and showed a lot of skill, just a few key things needed to be done differently

 

[Higher]

@Atlas IV, @Will_V, always appreciate your inputs guys.

A Gunwitch-style emotional stimulator might have worked well here

Im not really familiar with this, will research it and def give it a shot next time!

So I wouldn't say that she's an attention seeker but that she's used to living in an attention-seeking world.

Great cold read here.

It probably would have been better to try and take her to a little cafe for an insta date, if she complains you can say something like 'hey we just met, maybe later on down the track I'll take you to restaurant dinners but I want to get to know you first '

I totally see this working.

I think that one of the main issues with the whole seduction was not being confident and forward enough physically

Damn yeah, this is a massive sticking point for me. Almost like im not serious/fully committed to the thing.

Not a good move, since you are offering something and then saying why it can't be given + telling her your logistics are bad + that she won't be coming to your place today ... no wonder she's miffed.

Problem is that if she doesn't take the bait it looks like you were weak and she shut you down on the spot and you accepted it.

Exactly the impression i got. I felt like i was struggling already way before that and that this was another symptom of it.

Well ok she's leaving tomorrow, this guy has said his place is too far away and also seems a bit hesitant to get physical, now she's here with you holding her hand, here's where she's thinking: "so where is this going exactly?"

Fuck, i see it now. Thats probably why she got silent.

That's a weak and dithering frame, like you offer something but then downplay it as if you didn't really want it to happen, almost like it was mandatory to offer but you didn't want to.

Yeah, i had no clue what i was doing. I guess i was too focused on trying to get her to invite me over at her hotel, but i didnt really motivate her to do it - to the contrary, she was motivated NOT to do it.

1. You didn't have your logistics sorted
2. You were unconfident and flip-floppy when moving the seduction along. She's single and here for one day dude, either she wants to get banged in your apartment or there's nothing there.
3. You allowed her guard to throw you off at key points, seems like you gave her too much 'respect' for apparently being an upper league girl and didn't just treat her like another hungry little kitten that just wants to get filled up.
4. You didn't own your physicality with her enough, if she's enjoying something you're doing, move it up a notch.

Spot on.

About #1, i often game in that city (20 min train ride from my place). Its usually not a problem with dates, but with instapull scenarios like these i def count on the girl inviting me over. I realize this only works with girls that are sold on me already - this girl wasnt due to my insecurity.

I guess these "yellow" girls like me but perceive im not serious/just wasting their time.

I always try to be as blunt as possible when I give feedback so that things are clear as day, but you did a lot of things well here and showed a lot of skill, just a few key things needed to be done differently

Thanks man, i know a lotta you guys do. I never mind bluntness if it helps you make your point as clear as possible and drive me to the next breakthrough as quickly as possible.

I often get mad at myself for messing up these chances with girls i really like and who like me, so i dont have time to tiptoe around.

Thanks a lot again gents!

 

[Will_V]

About #1, i often game in that city (20 min train ride from my place). Its usually not a problem with dates, but with instapull scenarios like these i def count on the girl inviting me over. I realize this only works with girls that are sold on me already - this girl wasnt due to my insecurity.

It's always a lot trickier to get a girl to invite you to hers, especially in a fast seduction where she would be happy to experience something in your world but doesn't trust you enough to bring you into her world. When she goes to yours, she is free to completely move on afterward if for example it was a one time thing.

How about an uber? Even a 20 min train ride isn't too bad, have you had experience with girls losing the bubble on the way there?

 

[Higher]

she would be happy to experience something in your world but doesn't trust you enough to bring you into her world. When she goes to yours, she is free to completely move on afterward if for example it was a one time thing.

Never thought about this and it makes sense.

Even a 20 min train ride isn't too bad, have you had experience with girls losing the bubble on the way there?

Tbh i never tried it in instapull scenarios, will do it next time.