Cold-approaching in the Netherlands. Need some pointers

[DarkJedi]

I'd like to get some insight from folks who've gamed in the Netherlands or similar Western European countries. I have been living here for a few years and started seriously gaming this year, but I find it very difficult and demotivating with the girls here. I don't mean tourist girls or fresh-off-the-boat immigrants. They definitely respond better. I mean mostly locals. Also immigrants who have lived here for quite a few years seem to start becoming similar to the locals.

I don't want to be a defeatist and I believe there should be a way, and that's why I'm asking this. I wonder how much of it could be because of the cold culture here and how much could be because of my mindset. There are a few Dutch PUA channels in YouTube and all their infields consist of tourist girls or them gaming while on vacation, so there might be some truth to it.

I mostly do daygame. A lot of blowouts, flaky numbers. Getting a date seems like a big hurdle. I lived almost a month in Poland this year, and there I was getting so much better responses. Went on many dates. My game leveled up, just because of so many reference experiences.

Some of the things I've observed:

• There seems to be a very strong social frame acting in this culture, where approaching someone in the street is a big no. Most of the Dutch girls I've been with have been from apps and social circle. In Poland, most of them light up when you approach them in the street. Even girls with boyfriends. A girl with a boyfriend that I approached even set me up with her best friend You feel free there, like anything could happen. NL is all about what is "socially acceptable".
• Direct usually leads to blowouts. The girls are rarely rude, but the moment they hear what I approached them for, they start preparing their excuses
• Interactions with girls here rarely seem man-to-woman. In Poland, every interaction, even the blowouts, seem like you were talking to a feminine girl. If you observe interactions between Dutch guys and girls, most of them seem like homies hanging out
• Attraction here is even more of a light-switch. No leeway. In Poland, even if a girl is standoffish or concerned at first, you could talk your way into making her comfortable. Girls here don't even give you that chance
• This is just my theory: due to the strong egalitarianism and feminism, girls have been deluded to believe they should be the ones approaching and selecting guys, being in control, and getting approached is automatically a turn-off
• I've moved to a bigger student city here which is supposed to be extremely liberal and have way more women. Somehow it actually seems harder here than in the smaller city I used to live in.

All's not doom-and-gloom though. I have gotten a few dates and lays from daygame here. But not enough to see a pattern of what works better.

I'd like to hear from your experiences. I also wonder if its all about nightgame here. I have very little experience with nightgame, so can't comment.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Are you doing mostly direct game? There's a link in my signature that might help.

 

[DarkJedi]

Are you doing mostly direct game? There's a link in my signature that might help.

Yeah I'm mostly doing direct. Not pure neo-direct. I try to have pre-opens, think of law of least effort approach, etc. Indirect hasn't worked for me except for one or two times. It becomes just a friendly interaction.

I read the link in your signature. Some good ideas, thanks! Basically to start slow. I do have a social circle and meet people a few times a week, but I tend to have some weeks when I go into loner mode. I'm recently starting to go to meetups to try to build new connections.

I do tend to approach moving lone wolves because that's what seems to be most available. Like I rarely see girls sitting by themselves in cafés or parks, always with another one or in groups. The Dutch seem very social that way. I also approach in the supermarket which is kind of semi-stationary.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Yeah I'm mostly doing direct. Not pure neo-direct. I try to have pre-opens, think of law of least effort approach, etc. Indirect hasn't worked for me except for one or two times. It becomes just a friendly interaction.

Yeah, indirect is a lot more difficult to get attraction, but the advantage is you don't need that raw numbers game like with direct. And there is a way to get attraction in indirect game very systematically.

I had my indirect open to number close rate at nearly 100% at one time. Pretty much if I got her roped into a conversation, I'd get the number just about guaranteed.

But, it really doesn't work very well if she's in a rush... it only works if she has time to chat for a while. So I stopped even doing it on walking sets.

I read the link in your signature. Some good ideas, thanks! Basically to start slow. I do have a social circle and meet people a few times a week, but I tend to have some weeks when I go into loner mode. I'm recently starting to go to meetups to try to build new connections.

Sweet! Yeah doesn't sound like you're a loner. These weekly meetups help, they make for much better time bridges than coffee dates. Girls are more likely to accept "we're doing a barbecue on Saturday, you should come and bring some friends" than "let's have some coffee you and me". Plus you get a lot of social proof, especially if you invite a lot of girls to those meetups

I do tend to approach moving lone wolves because that's what seems to be most available. Like I rarely see girls sitting by themselves in cafés or parks, always with another one or in groups. The Dutch seem very social that way. I also approach in the supermarket which is kind of semi-stationary.

Yes, that's the big problem with daygame. Always has been... not an easy one to solve. I found most indirect sets on public transport, but you have to live in a city where a lot of people ride the subway or the bus to do that. Also doable is cafes, etc. especially if there's a free chair near her you can sit for a minute and then open indirect.

If I make another comeback next year, I'm very strongly considering Holland btw, so maybe we could wing a bit.

 

[Higher]

If I make another comeback next year, I'm very strongly considering Holland btw, so maybe we could wing a bit.

Id love to join

 

[DarkJedi]

Yeah, indirect is a lot more difficult to get attraction, but the advantage is you don't need that raw numbers game like with direct. And there is a way to get attraction in indirect game very systematically.

I had my indirect open to number close rate at nearly 100% at one time. Pretty much if I got her roped into a conversation, I'd get the number just about guaranteed.

Sweet! Yeah, I find it hard to transition into juicier topics when going indirect, but whenever I've managed, its gotten me a much stronger lead.

I imagine if I can improve my edgy/sexual vibe it should make it easier to get indirect to work. With a purely social vibe, it just stays platonic, unless I'm able to bring in lots of teases and chase-frames verbally.

Yes, that's the big problem with daygame. Always has been... not an easy one to solve. I found most indirect sets on public transport, but you have to live in a city where a lot of people ride the subway or the bus to do that. Also doable is cafes, etc. especially if there's a free chair near her you can sit for a minute and then open indirect.

Good to know I'm not the only one facing this problem. About cafes... How do you normally do cafes? Do you hang around there with a book or something, waiting for girls to come in? I tend to look from outside and if I see someone I go in and get a drink. But then I'm probably missing all the girls who went in when I wasn't looking

If I make another comeback next year, I'm very strongly considering Holland btw, so maybe we could wing a bit.

That would be great! I'll be definitely down for that

 

[DarkJedi]

Id love to join

Ayee! You live in the Netherlands?

 

[Higher]

Ayee! You live in the Netherlands?

No but i could do a quick trip

 

[DarkJedi]

Yesterday was a decent day.

Tried some indirect on the train. Was traveling to a different city. Talked to a girl while going and another one also on the journey back. One even asked for my number without me mentioning anything! She has a boyfriend though, so not sure where she's going with it.

Also did a few direct approaches. My vibe was better yesterday. Although to be fair to this post, none of them except one were local girls.

I need to start a journal here. Will help me keep track and also reflect on my progress.

@Enki Dm'd you.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Sweet! Yeah, I find it hard to transition into juicier topics when going indirect, but whenever I've managed, its gotten me a much stronger lead.

structure your interactions. don't leave it up to "natural game".
this is exactly the reason why natural game is an oxymoron.

If you run "natural", you say wahtever comes to mind.
sometimes that will lead to juicer topics and sometimes it will not.

structure it.
failing to plan is planning to fail.

I imagine if I can improve my edgy/sexual vibe it should make it easier to get indirect to work. With a purely social vibe, it just stays platonic, unless I'm able to bring in lots of teases and chase-frames verbally.

yes
there has to be a sexual vibe in the first 2-3 minutes already
BUT very subtle and classy, not like nightgame were you can go harder

you can do it in daygame too
but only on some girls
many it will get you blown out for no reason cause they'd respond fine to a sexual approach if it was a bit more classy and subtle

About cafes... How do you normally do cafes? Do you hang around there with a book or something, waiting for girls to come in? I tend to look from outside and if I see someone I go in and get a drink. But then I'm probably missing all the girls who went in when I wasn't looking

yeah i do it like you
if i liked working from cafes i'd do it the "hanging out all day" way
but i need a quite place with no distractions when i'm working online

That would be great! I'll be definitely down for that

we have a few skilled seducer guys on holland, germany, poland.
i'm considering all 3 let's see

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

Sweet! Yeah, I find it hard to transition into juicier topics when going indirect, but whenever I've managed, its gotten me a much stronger lead.

I imagine if I can improve my edgy/sexual vibe it should make it easier to get indirect to work. With a purely social vibe, it just stays platonic, unless I'm able to bring in lots of teases and chase-frames verbally.


Good to know I'm not the only one facing this problem. About cafes... How do you normally do cafes? Do you hang around there with a book or something, waiting for girls to come in? I tend to look from outside and if I see someone I go in and get a drink. But then I'm probably missing all the girls who went in when I wasn't looking


That would be great! I'll be definitely down for that

If you can recall the juicy topics you transitioned to which ones were the most effective?

And when you say indirect, do you mean like asking about directions or something OR using Situational openers?

 

[SexualHero]

Yeah I'm mostly doing direct. Not pure neo-direct. I try to have pre-opens, think of law of least effort approach, etc. Indirect hasn't worked for me except for one or two times. It becomes just a friendly interaction.

Friendly interaction is better then no interaction ( blowout ). It means you have a chance to ramp up the attraction and move on from friendly interaction. It is your job as a seducer, after all

 

[DarkJedi]

structure your interactions. don't leave it up to "natural game".
this is exactly the reason why natural game is an oxymoron.

If you run "natural", you say wahtever comes to mind.
sometimes that will lead to juicer topics and sometimes it will not.

structure it.
failing to plan is planning to fail.

I'm realizing this too these days. I've always liked to believe conversation should be natural. When I'm chill, in a good mood, and also depending on how the girl responds, I have had amazing interactions which feel natural. But on other days, I can draw a blank, especially when I'm not calm and the daygame scenario is high-pressure (moving sets, or other time constraints).

Do you have a simple structure that can be followed for daygame? There's too much stuff out there.
I'm thinking something like:
Open -> Cold read, tease (depending on her vibe) -> Hook -> Comfort/Vibe (+make her invest more here) -> Close at high point

Also, thinking back, some of my better sets have involved qualification/screening, to make her think I found something I value in her.

yes
there has to be a sexual vibe in the first 2-3 minutes already
BUT very subtle and classy, not like nightgame were you can go harder

you can do it in daygame too
but only on some girls
many it will get you blown out for no reason cause they'd respond fine to a sexual approach if it was a bit more classy and subtle

Could you give me an example of what's subtle and classy and where it gets too much for most girls?

 

[DarkJedi]

If you can recall the juicy topics you transitioned to which ones were the most effective?

And when you say indirect, do you mean like asking about directions or something OR using Situational openers?

I have mostly done situational in the past. The asking for directions stuff personally feels a bit contrived. Although Chase recommends it for street stops, so I want to try it out sometime.

By juicy topics, I mean anything that brings a flirty vibe, by framing her as a silly/cute girl or that she's chasing you. The best ones IMO are when you can frame her as sexual. Here's an example from a while back, in a street stop. I have to say I was in a good mood, and this girl was very playful:

DarkJedi: You know what I find very interesting? You say you're shy, and I see it, yet you seem to be loving to talk to me, in the middle of this random street, without a care in the world
HB: (smiling impishly) Yeah, I'm crazy like that
DarkJedi: (smiling with a hint of suspicion) Now that you say this, I can see it in your eyes. You're a naughty little girl aren't you?
HB: I can be, sometimes
DarkJedi: Hmm, not sure I can trust you
HB: Why? I'm not all crazy. I can be good too
DarkJedi: Yeah, dunno! But you make me very curious. I have to know more, let's get a coffee around the corner. A coffee can't hurt!
(we go for an instant date)

We ended up talking about her being curious about BDSM and her being secretly bisexual. Unfortunately her bf was calling her multiple times and she had to leave.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

I'm not in the field at the moment cause I have a GF, so the details aren't top of mind. but let me check my notes when I have time and give you a better response. What you have is decent enough to work with and improve via sticking point analysis.

Measuring Skill Level

I’ve been wondering for a while now how other’s go about measuring skill level when it comes to this skill. Not so much in the ego flattering, “oh I’m a master” kind of way, but more so in the okay i’m good here, now its time to focus on THIS kind of way. I’ve hit a point where I can identify...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

I'm realizing this too these days. I've always liked to believe conversation should be natural. When I'm chill, in a good mood, and also depending on how the girl responds, I have had amazing interactions which feel natural. But on other days, I can draw a blank, especially when I'm not calm and the daygame scenario is high-pressure (moving sets, or other time constraints).

Do you have a simple structure that can be followed for daygame? There's too much stuff out there.
I'm thinking something like:
Open -> Cold read, tease (depending on her vibe) -> Hook -> Comfort/Vibe (+make her invest more here) -> Close at high point

Also, thinking back, some of my better sets have involved qualification/screening, to make her think I found something I value in her.


Could you give me an example of what's subtle and classy and where it gets too much for most girls?

Here's a new article by @Chase I think you'd find useful

It's a bar setting but it has some examples on light qualification early on

And I see it fitting into this structure you have or at best, helping to refine it.

Conversation Example: Repartee

This conversation example shows how to build flirtation, banter, and excitement in the initial Repartee Stage with a girl. Follow along & watch it unfold! A short while back, a reader requested the following: Chase, in HTMGC you say repartee is to be used after the opener and that it consists of...

www.girlschase.com