Socializing Does cold approaching not work in this day and age?

[RisingCane]

OP you made a long post but I cannot help but wonder if the reason OP feels the way he does is because he is in Toronto. Maybe other Toronto users can weigh in but isn't Toronto home of the Eaton City Center debacle that happened about a decade ago where people revolted against local PUAs?

A Swarm of Pickup Artists Tried to Invade a Mall in Toronto

Unfortunately this wasn't the only pick up event scheduled on arguably the worst day ever to hold such an event, December 6, the National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women and the 24th anniversary of the l'Ecole Polytechnique...

www.vice.com

FWIW, I am in Miami and we do get a lot of "Snowbirds" from Canada. The ones from Ontario are....well, interesting to say the least. Their attitudes towards sex and hooking up seem not only prudish but they do seem to gaslight you for even approaching them. Some of my worst encounters have been with Canadian women from that Ontario area.

It would also make sense as to why Game Legends such as Mystery as well as RSD's Tyler happened to come from the English Speaking parts of Canada. Then there was the recent situation with Jack Denmo, a PUA, who got sent to prison for hooking up with college girls in Ontario.

If anything, I am impressed that @chasemember1969 has managed to avoid serious trouble and still get numbers and a date doing cold approach in Toronto.

I have not really Gamed in Toronto myself and given all that I have heard, I would probably never want to unless I was bored and up for a challenge. The attitudes of women there seem quite terrible for me to bother but I base this off of the transplants.

 

[KnownUniverse]

If that was the case then I was shit out of luck. I started taking dating seriously early 2016. I guess I was too late. Goddammit.

nah i dont think so it's just a bit more socially awkward now. society has changed a lot in the last 20 years. remember Paul Janka was on dr phil proudly discussing his pua lifestyle back then. Nowadays they'd have an angry feminists on as well to shame him for harassing women. Even Mystery had his on show on tv called The Pickup Artist or something that showed him picking up girls in bars. Nowadays if that show was on tv it would be instantly cancelled for "trying to manipulate women".

Men just arent allowed to be men anymore which really sucks for me because i spent my 20s striving to develop a masculine personality--developing a masculine, alpha-male character which was highly valued back then but today after years of effort i've found that masculinity is no longer valued by society. Not in the traditional sense anyway. It's like masculinity has been snuffed out of western society so I'm trying to figure out what is valued now?

 

[KnownUniverse]

OP you made a long post but I cannot help but wonder if the reason OP feels the way he does is because he is in Toronto. Maybe other Toronto users can weigh in but isn't Toronto home of the Eaton City Center debacle that happened about a decade ago where people revolted against local PUAs?

I get the feeling the colonial nations have developed a very stringent social culture that reflects their economy. I'm talking UK, NZ, AUS, CAN. They all have some of the worse social mobility in the world, even owning your home in these countries comes down to what you can inherit from your family now. It's really bad.

How this relates to PUA is everyone has become "Cliquey" in these countries. Everyone stays in their own lane and you're considered weird for trying to break out of it. It's like a soft communism. They all have great social welfare services but terrible potential to significantly improve your life.

 

[Chase]

Love these stories.

Keep 'em coming, guys.

I want to write an article about this.

Thanks for your reply here. I'm curious to know what you think about how I approach cold approach and the 2 asterisks notes I placed at the bottom of the post? Ik my post is long and there was a lot I mentioned. You addressed a large chunk of my post which i appreciate, but with my new stated goal with cold approach and the type of woman in looking for, I'd imagine it would clash with some ideas here.

Let me take a look...

I'll also write up some field reports this year. Might as well if I still need to work to find my own way of doing things

Always a good idea!

On the asterisk questions --

*These kinds of groups form over political ideology where they believe in socialization theory, so all they did was end up putting together people with progressive views but on a primal level, still react very "conservatively" (in a sense women are attracted to men with masculinity, and the conversation of "rizz" happens but it's very underground because you're not supposed to treat women as "instruction manuals" or "see sex as a prize to be won, get to know them first".). Note, I do agree with them not to see women as instruction manuals or conquest, but practical tips on how to start a conversation, flirt, and potentially lead to sex should not be demonized. It's like whenever they hear discussions like this, all they hear is how to ignore a "no". Listen, you tell me no once, I full stop. I don't care if it's an LMR or you secretly want me to push forward, I'm not doing that.

Most people want men being trained for marriage.

That is so in all times and all places.

Leftwing, rightwing, it's what societies want.

Players are always frowned upon.

And the best "getting women" advice always comes from players.

That is just how it is: settle for "here's how to be the perfect husband" advice from the mainstream, or turn to the "rotten underbelly" of fellow playboys to learn the actionable stuff that gets girls.

*The current liberal groups formed around political beliefs, which means they find people who share their beliefs, not people who are naturally attracted to what's considered unconventional. When it comes to truly feminine men and truly masculine women, there are no groups bringing them together based on natural disposition. If there was such a group, I would've gone there in a heartbeat.

All political groups form around political beliefs.

Are you saying you're a "truly feminine man" in search of a "truly masculine woman"?

I mean, I don't know how they meet, but there's been a huge upsurge in cuckold men / dudes with "hot wives" where the wife is the sex fiend and the man is the submissive, dudes getting pegged by their girlfriends, etc.

That's out of my realm of awareness but I'd be surprised if folks like this didn't have gathering points.

Chase

 

[average_daygamer]

I understand. It does seem separate.

The reason why I included the political part is because it's part intertwined with the whole thing. Thus, feminists think "the political is personal" which. I also hear "because of metoo, it's hard for guys to approach because they fear being seen as creepy, so no one does it apart from PUA."

A lot of people, both liberal and conservative, use emotional moments to bring people to buy into their ideology like it was a mission. The male feminist friend did exactly that to me. It took my own research away from his framework to realize he's operating from purely ideological frameworks. I can't tell you the number of times he tried telling me "the patriarchy tells men they need to be masculine, they cold approach, and end up making women feel comfortable because they feel entitled". Funny enough in the early stages of taking to him, he said he wanted to learn how to cold approach, but it took me a while to realize that was a ruse to get me to buy into his ideology.

This is why I included the political bit in my post.

That's interesting with your situation with the male feminist.

I have had a similar learning curve with redpill and alpha male content.

They breach walking right up, being bold and marinating in the moment. Go right up and tell the girl to get face that she looks HOT.

But then we have society at large (at least in the Uk) telling us that women don't want to be approached and don't like feeling the pressure of being put on the spot by a bold approach.

The great thing about this website is that it emphasises the subtle approach more than the "alpha male" approach promoted a lot on the seduction sub Reddit and some YouTube channels.

I often see the cold approach method as suited more to the north American frontier mindset. Even in Canada, your culture is more self sufficient where men can be men and work the land, hunt and build things in the wilderness.

Small government, self reliance, ambition, people minding their business, etc. There are places where nature lets you know how small you are.

Europe, especially the UK, is way too stuffy for cold approach, outside of big cities. Everyone is all up in either other's business, community minded with a "neighbourhood watch" mentality and too caught up in what others think.

A lot of people have never faced the wilderness out here. They are caught in their safe little bubble without any perspective. They think they are important, when the universe is indifferent to them.

I can't see Canada being too much different culturally than the USA.

 

[Chase]

OP you made a long post but I cannot help but wonder if the reason OP feels the way he does is because he is in Toronto. Maybe other Toronto users can weigh in but isn't Toronto home of the Eaton City Center debacle that happened about a decade ago where people revolted against local PUAs?

Toronto's where Mystery originally hailed from.

Sasha Daygame too.

There is a reason it's the birthplace of much of modern PUA:

It is well known as a very, very tough dating market.

For years it had a high male:female ratio. Just checking now it looks like women actually outnumber men there? It's probably easier picking up in Toronto now than it was in Mystery's day!

Still... it's probably the last place on Earth I'd pick as a vacation spot if I wanted to game some cuties.

I think I'd rather go to Pyongyang or take a trip to the Antarctic than hit up Toronto, based on the reports I've heard coming out of there for the past 20 years.

-C

 

[KnownUniverse]

I mean, I don't know how they meet, but there's been a huge upsurge in cuckold men / dudes with "hot wives" where the wife is the sex fiend and the man is the submissive, dudes getting pegged by their girlfriends, etc.

of course. if you jump on social media you'll notice there's a very popular trend at the moment amongst GenZ of referring to hot girls unironically as "mommy" accompanied by phrases such as "step on me". Young men by and large are adopting the submissive mindset now. Perhaps because they have been beaten into submission by the MSM (metoo movement, cancel culture, left-wing social media etc...). And the internet is also largely to blame.

I do believe the feminization of young men has given rise to things like the INCEL communities, LOOKISM, and other anti-pua movements. Incels in particular are very feminine and seem to be everywhere now with no push back. 20 years ago if a man constantly cried about not being pretty enough he'd get bullied or ostracized but now he gets upvotes and validation.

 

[Chase]

@KnownUniverse,

nah i dont think so it's just a bit more socially awkward now. society has changed a lot in the last 20 years. remember Paul Janka was on dr phil proudly discussing his pua lifestyle back then. Nowadays they'd have an angry feminists on as well to shame him for harassing women. Even Mystery had his on show on tv called The Pickup Artist or something that showed him picking up girls in bars. Nowadays if that show was on tv it would be instantly cancelled for "trying to manipulate women".

Men just arent allowed to be men anymore which really sucks for me because i spent my 20s striving to develop a masculine personality--developing a masculine, alpha-male character which was highly valued back then but today after years of effort i've found that masculinity is no longer valued by society. Not in the traditional sense anyway. It's like masculinity has been snuffed out of western society now so I'm trying to figure out what is valued now?

Cherry-picking and rose-colored glasses.

Society is WAY more accepting of pickup artistry now than it was in Paul Janka's day.

Paul was an aberration because he sweet talked the MSM.

When Girls Chase first got popular and I started getting invitations to do media, I talked to @Karea Ricardus D. about it in 2012. He strongly encouraged me not to. "You're just going to put a big target on your back," he said. Other folks I talked to were worried if I started doing media they'd come after Girls Chase and this place would go away. A bit like what happened to Return of Kings / Roosh and RSD / Julien (that said, Roosh and Julien were deliberate provocateurs. I'm a bit provocative, but then I calm it down and relate it back to everyone. THAT said that said, the way the media edits, they'd probably just have kept my provocative statements and edited out my reasonable ones... lol).

If you know how the media works, you know journalists and talk show hosts want a "story", and the story they tell is not your story but whatever story they can spin with you that they think will drive viewer engagement. For pickup artists, there are three categories:

1. Clown
2. Villain
3. Mainstream-adjacent guy who downplays the pickup artistry and makes it all sound a lot more relatable

Here's a good example. This is an old Mystery interview on Conan. Mystery plays the 'clown' role here. He's always either joking or being joked at. When he tries to make it serious (e.g., discussing opening body language), Conan makes a funny face and the audience laughs at Mystery's "overthinking" / "over-analysis" of something "simple" like just going up to talk to someone.

Nowadays women are constantly lamenting online about how men don't approach anymore:

https://x.com/GirlsChase/status/1915061883201319144

It's become accepted for regular chicks to encourage cold approach:

https://x.com/GirlsChase/status/1899233901769585061

Total opposite world to where it was 15-20 years ago. Everybody thought you were a complete weirdo if you started talking openly about cold approach back then. You had to always play it dumb: "Oh no, you know, I was just out and we ended up talking and we really hit it off. Heck, she practically approached ME!"

There was a chick on X who had this whole big essay on how "I miss the pickup artists" talking about how PUAs at least had a positive, playful approach toward women and actually cared about them and were interested in them and liked them. Meanwhile the current crop of men is all bitter toward women and has a bunch of cynical, uncompromising views. Her post to that essay on X had tons of women commenting about how they missed the pickup artists, etc.

tl;dr:

Society is in general more accepting of PUA today than it was in the past.

Partly that is probably linked to how few guys there still are practicing it, partly to how lonely women are from how much men in general have withdrawn from dating, and partly from how toxic the stuff that's replaced PUA has been.

Chase

 

[Chase]

of course. if you jump on social media you'll notice there's a very popular trend at the moment amongst GenZ of referring to hot girls unironically as "mommy" accompanied by phrases such as "step on me". Young men by and large are adopting the submissive mindset now. Perhaps because they have been beaten into submission by the MSM (metoo movement, cancel culture, left-wing social media etc...). And the internet is also largely to blame.

It's some real Mouse Utopia stuff, yeah.

Mouse Utopia: Are We Living in the Human Version?

John B. Calhoun’s rat and mouse utopia studies show what happens in abundant-yet-overcrowded conditions. Ominously, his findings echo what we see around us in people today. How much of our modern social ails can be understood by population pressures due to overcrowding? Contents 1. 1947 Rodent...

www.girlschase.com

Crazy thing is it's 100% self-cucking.

No one's going to beat them up if they don't self-cuck.

Women will actually want them more.

Dudes will respect them more.

But that's how it works for mass audiences: they just go with the flow. If the flow says "bend over and take it", they say "HOW DEEP!"

What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular.

(related to this, I hate the "top guy / bottom guy" meme. Gayest shit ever. And I am fine with a little homoerotic humor. But the TG/BG thing is like... I don't know. Total homosexual colonization of popular thought if you ask me. Really not a way you should be thinking: "That's bottom guy energy" etc. )

I do believe the feminization of young men has given rise to things like the INCEL communities, LOOKISM, and other anti-pua movements. Incels in particular are very feminine and seem to be everywhere now with no push back. 20 years ago if a man constantly cried about not being pretty enough he'd get bullied or ostracized but now he gets upvotes and validation.

Totally inevitable process from a social standpoint.

It happens in all large and prosperous societies where the struggle for survival is pushed far beyond the boundaries of everyday life. Happened in ancient Greece, ancient Rome, ancient Gaul; in Byzantium, among the Abbasid Caliphate, basically everywhere. The great-grandsons of warriors turn into pussies, victims of their ancestors' success.

Then they get rolled.

Why Are 21st Century Men So Apathetic and Unmotivated?

Men of today have lost their motivation to build, fight, work, or get women. What's behind their lethargy, and how can you overcome this in yourself? We live in a distinctly unmotivated time. During the settling of the American continent, European settlers burst through with boundless energy...

www.girlschase.com

You can't really worry too much about trying to fight the arc of history. All you can do is open yourself up to having a bit more of the warrior spirit yourself -- as much as is practical in a peaceful and prosperous (if declining) age:

Beauty Is the Reward of Valor

Women don't respond to timorous men. But they respond (in almost shocking ways) to strong, driven, valiant ones… with beauty as valor's reward. Writing of the invasion in 396 A.D.

www.girlschase.com

Chase

 

[RDRChaseMember]

Irrespective of the kind of world I'm in, I understand that I was given a handful of hours to spend on worthwhile things, among which includes bedding beautiful women and having relationships with them.

I don't care the hand I was dealt or if the board game is biased in some way.

I'm slowly understanding this, which is why I'm still doing it. A note on social circles, I've joined some fitness classes. If social circles are considered the norm, I at least want it to be in an environment where I'm gonna meet hot girls at (since they take care of their bodies and shit).

However, I do believe putting in the effort to help normalizing day game for a lot of people will help us become more open. Listen, you and a lot of people here can think approaching strangers can be a testament of great skill. It shouldn't have to be. It's only a testament of great skill because it's not the norm.

 

[Spike]

I'm essentially trying to work on cold approach skills where I filter in women I find attractive who also find me attractive from the get-go, filter out feminists, and who would be willing to date me seriously where they'll actually respond to my text when I follow-up with them.

For this, you’ll need to figure out where the girls your attracted to go.

And then you’ll need to figure out how the guys they like dress.

For example. I’m a night gamer in his 30s. Who wants to sleep with thin waisted bubble butt 18 year old girls. The first step was to obviously move to where a lot of them were. The next step was figuring out where they went. This meant going to the spots where they allowed those girls inside. And then it was figuring out what exactly is the look of the guy these girls are obsessed with and then dressing myself to that style (which was a very long process with a lot of trial and error). You’ll still have to game them of course. But I haven’t found a better strategy for getting me the results I’m after.

 

[RDRChaseMember]

developing a masculine, alpha-male character which was highly valued back then but today after years of effort i've found that masculinity is no longer valued by society. Not in the traditional sense anyway. It's like masculinity has been snuffed out of western society so I'm trying to figure out what is valued now?

Tbh dude if you frequent more conservative circles (socially conservative as in they value traditional gender roles and what not) you may find them. Most of the women I meet in Toronto (esp those in art spaces where liberal views are the norm) there tends to be underground traditionalists there, but most women there respond to masculine energy even if that's not the PC thing to say.

I actually have more of an uphill battle being someone who's attracted to women with more masculine temperament. If I'm the feminine one, then her being the masculine one helps with sexual polarity. But she has to actually enjoy it, not be in that role as a byproduct of being with a man she percieves as weak. Me trying to filter this type of woman in is gonna be an uphill battle considering the mainstream liberal and political influence there is in the society I'm living in.

 

[RDRChaseMember]

How this relates to PUA is everyone has become "Cliquey" in these countries. Everyone stays in their own lane and you're considered weird for trying to break out of it. It's like a soft communism. They all have great social welfare services but terrible potential to significantly improve your life.

This is exactly it!

 

[KJ Francis]

FWIW, I am in Miami and we do get a lot of "Snowbirds" from Canada. The ones from Ontario are....well, interesting to say the least. Their attitudes towards sex and hooking up seem not only prudish but they do seem to gaslight you for even approaching them. Some of my worst encounters have been with Canadian women from that Ontario area.

This is wild to me... in my experience, Ontarians are extremely normal people and a bit more liberal on average... like Midwestern girls but even more polite. I would think snowbirds are down there with their families... maybe it's a discretion issue?

How this relates to PUA is everyone has become "Cliquey" in these countries. Everyone stays in their own lane and you're considered weird for trying to break out of it. It's like a soft communism. They all have great social welfare services but terrible potential to significantly improve your life.

Again... what?? Have you ever heard of the Blackberry? Or Shopify? It is simply a smaller country with only a few big cities (40 million vs. USA 340 million... so if you want to excel in finance for example, you basically have to be in Toronto)

I think I'd rather go to Pyongyang or take a trip to the Antarctic than hit up Toronto, based on the reports I've heard coming out of there for the past 20 years.

Maybe it is a ratio thing. I'd be interested in @topcat 's take... Toronto vs. North Korea... though if you do find yourself in the area, check out London's University of Western Ontario two hours away. I believe Zan still hits London when he's back in Canada.

 

[RDRChaseMember]

Are you saying you're a "truly feminine man" in search of a "truly masculine woman"?

THIS IS A LONG POST.

Something of that sort. I've been big on self-awareness. I've paid attention to the fantasies I would usually get and react to, and I pay attention to the energy I'm naturally drawn towards to when I speak to women. I'm supposed to like women who are cheeky, a bit shy, close-offish etc, but I find myself responding positively to women who are outgoing, more forthright, direct, have the "take the lead" energy. I was ashamed of this back in my early 20s because through this site, I was taught they want a masculine man and society forces men to be feminine, but after spending time on trying to be masculine and having some success with it, it actually made me realize I actually like being the feminine one and wanting my woman to be masculine. This got me diving into sexual polarity and then eventually the big 5.

I mean, I don't know how they meet, but there's been a huge upsurge in cuckold men / dudes with "hot wives" where the wife is the sex fiend and the man is the submissive, dudes getting pegged by their girlfriends, etc.

No offense to you Chase, big respect for the work you do, but this is another major pet peeve of mine. Even the male feminist friend did this. Every time people hear the phrase "masculine woman" or "dominant woman" almost always people think of some BDSM type stuff. Cuckold men are specifically men that get off on watching their spouses fuck other dudes and I'm like "no that's not what I'm talking about at all." A lot of these are acts and are done at a dynamic level. What I mean by this is most of the time this is their BDSM persona. Sometimes they don't engage in BDSM for arousal, sometimes it's psychological. Even some dommes engage with it because they see it as smashing the patriarchy. Sorry for the rant there, it just brings out something visceral in me.

What I mean when I say "masculine woman" or a "dominant woman" is in a different context, more specifically the big 5. And why am I focusing on the big 5? Because some of our personality traits come with natural temperaments. That means some traits come easy for us, regardless if our environments get us to develop very different traits. This is unconfirmed, but I believe the attraction we feel and the complimenting between the masculine/feminine energies (achieving sexual polarity) actually comes from our temperament. This may explain why there are feminist or women who are tough as nails still responding to men who are more masculine than them. It's cuz they themselves are not masculine at a temperamental level, they were just raised in an environment like this.

I'll put some links here.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...one-transfer/C5C72DBFD24FA1E7D9B460B9047F43FC

The above is a study that's done in Sweden in 2015. Sweden as a country ranks very high up in terms of gender equality in both structural and cultural. But surprise surprise, there are gender differences that managed to measure men being more masculine than women. But there's a small percentage of men who are feminine and small percentage of women who are masculine. This was done using the big 5 which is supposed to be a scientifically validated method. Now the above article won't mean much because if you look at the 5 dimensions, then the gender differences here are usually small. That's where the 10 aspects come in which I'll link below.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/

Masculine & Feminine in the Myers-Briggs vs. Big Five | Personality Junkie

By A.J. Drenth Sex differences in personality and temperament have been documented in many empirical studies. In most mammalian species, including humans, males tend to…

personalityjunkie.com

The 10 aspects and are the subsets of the dimensions. The gender differences on an aspect level are much more pronounced. The managed to pinpoint which aspect of each dimension are masculine (most commonly seen in men) and feminine (most commonly seen in women).

So whenever I say masculine women or dominant women, this is what I'm referring to, not BDSM, cuckold, nor submissive role type shit.

 

[RDRChaseMember]

They breach walking right up, being bold and marinating in the moment. Go right up and tell the girl to get face that she looks HOT.

That's the redpill approach? I understand just outright telling her she looks hot, ARC talks about this in his mode 1. But just walking right up to them? If I remember correctly, apart from AMS, most redpill channels I've seen i.e stephiscold, fitxfearless, austin dunham, they have videos about cold approaching, but most of their focus is about being seen as the high value alpha male. I got some friends who subscribe to some redpill beliefs and they're very much against cold approaching because they believe it gives away your power to the woman. They instead wait to get choosing signals.

But it's been a while since I watched any redpill content, so I may be out of the loop.

"

Europe, especially the UK, is way too stuffy for cold approach, outside of big cities. Everyone is all up in either other's business, community minded with a "neighbourhood watch" mentality and too caught up in what others think.

Oh dude, I would agree Canada is better than UK in that regard. The shit I've read and heard about UK is pretty unreal. I'd probably visit UK for a vacation, but maybe I'd stay away from it altogether.

 

[RDRChaseMember]

Incels in particular are very feminine and seem to be everywhere now with no push back.

I think I disagree with incels being very feminine. If anything, incels have a lot of rage in them and feel very undesired as well as being destined to be alone, which I think is very separate from masculinity and femininity as that's more sexual polarity. Incels generally suffer from low self-esteem, though on some level I can't really blame them.

 

[RDRChaseMember]

@KnownUniverse,



Cherry-picking and rose-colored glasses.

Society is WAY more accepting of pickup artistry now than it was in Paul Janka's day.

Paul was an aberration because he sweet talked the MSM.

When Girls Chase first got popular and I started getting invitations to do media, I talked to @Karea Ricardus D. about it in 2012. He strongly encouraged me not to. "You're just going to put a big target on your back," he said. Other folks I talked to were worried if I started doing media they'd come after Girls Chase and this place would go away. A bit like what happened to Return of Kings / Roosh and RSD / Julien (that said, Roosh and Julien were deliberate provocateurs. I'm a bit provocative, but then I calm it down and relate it back to everyone. THAT said that said, the way the media edits, they'd probably just have kept my provocative statements and edited out my reasonable ones... lol).

If you know how the media works, you know journalists and talk show hosts want a "story", and the story they tell is not your story but whatever story they can spin with you that they think will drive viewer engagement. For pickup artists, there are three categories:

1. Clown
2. Villain
3. Mainstream-adjacent guy who downplays the pickup artistry and makes it all sound a lot more relatable

Here's a good example. This is an old Mystery interview on Conan. Mystery plays the 'clown' role here. He's always either joking or being joked at. When he tries to make it serious (e.g., discussing opening body language), Conan makes a funny face and the audience laughs at Mystery's "overthinking" / "over-analysis" of something "simple" like just going up to talk to someone.

Nowadays women are constantly lamenting online about how men don't approach anymore:

https://x.com/GirlsChase/status/1915061883201319144

It's become accepted for regular chicks to encourage cold approach:

https://x.com/GirlsChase/status/1899233901769585061

Total opposite world to where it was 15-20 years ago. Everybody thought you were a complete weirdo if you started talking openly about cold approach back then. You had to always play it dumb: "Oh no, you know, I was just out and we ended up talking and we really hit it off. Heck, she practically approached ME!"

There was a chick on X who had this whole big essay on how "I miss the pickup artists" talking about how PUAs at least had a positive, playful approach toward women and actually cared about them and were interested in them and liked them. Meanwhile the current crop of men is all bitter toward women and has a bunch of cynical, uncompromising views. Her post to that essay on X had tons of women commenting about how they missed the pickup artists, etc.

tl;dr:

Society is in general more accepting of PUA today than it was in the past.

Partly that is probably linked to how few guys there still are practicing it, partly to how lonely women are from how much men in general have withdrawn from dating, and partly from how toxic the stuff that's replaced PUA has been.

Chase

I'll reply to your entire response.

I have been noticing women wanting men to approach them again as well. Idk if this translates to Toronto. What I do know is Toronto is definitely commercializing off of people's romantic desires via singles events, social events, etc. A lot of people are tired of the swiping culture in online dating. I think men especially really hate it because if their profile is not polished, the algorithm basically doesn't give their profile the exposure it would need to get an adequate amount of matches.

But I think IRL means different. Like just because they say they want IRL approaches back doesn't necessarily mean cold approaches are in. I've noticing a desire to meet someone in a class, a friend group, or even a singles event. I've only seen girls on social media talking about why men aren't approaching them in more cold approach context, but I haven't heard of this type of convo in my area.

I actually find it interesting it's more accepted now than it was in the past. Maybe you could be right, perhaps I'm projecting some of the bad experiences I got with society (society, not girls) onto this conversation that maybe I haven't noticed this change in my local area.

 

[Chase]

@chasemember1969,

THIS IS A LONG POST.

Something of that sort. I've been big on self-awareness. I've paid attention to the fantasies I would usually get and react to, and I pay attention to the energy I'm naturally drawn towards to when I speak to women. I'm supposed to like women who are cheeky, a bit shy, close-offish etc, but I find myself responding positively to women who are outgoing, more forthright, direct, have the "take the lead" energy. I was ashamed of this back in my early 20s because through this site, I was taught they want a masculine man and society forces men to be feminine, but after spending time on trying to be masculine and having some success with it, it actually made me realize I actually like being the feminine one and wanting my woman to be masculine. This got me diving into sexual polarity and then eventually the big 5.


No offense to you Chase, big respect for the work you do, but this is another major pet peeve of mine. Even the male feminist friend did this. Every time people hear the phrase "masculine woman" or "dominant woman" almost always people think of some BDSM type stuff. Cuckold men are specifically men that get off on watching their spouses fuck other dudes and I'm like "no that's not what I'm talking about at all." A lot of these are acts and are done at a dynamic level. What I mean by this is most of the time this is their BDSM persona. Sometimes they don't engage in BDSM for arousal, sometimes it's psychological. Even some dommes engage with it because they see it as smashing the patriarchy. Sorry for the rant there, it just brings out something visceral in me.

What I mean when I say "masculine woman" or a "dominant woman" is in a different context, more specifically the big 5. And why am I focusing on the big 5? Because some of our personality traits come with natural temperaments. That means some traits come easy for us, regardless if our environments get us to develop very different traits. This is unconfirmed, but I believe the attraction we feel and the complimenting between the masculine/feminine energies (achieving sexual polarity) actually comes from our temperament. This may explain why there are feminist or women who are tough as nails still responding to men who are more masculine than them. It's cuz they themselves are not masculine at a temperamental level, they were just raised in an environment like this.

I'll put some links here.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...one-transfer/C5C72DBFD24FA1E7D9B460B9047F43FC

The above is a study that's done in Sweden in 2015. Sweden as a country ranks very high up in terms of gender equality in both structural and cultural. But surprise surprise, there are gender differences that managed to measure men being more masculine than women. But there's a small percentage of men who are feminine and small percentage of women who are masculine. This was done using the big 5 which is supposed to be a scientifically validated method. Now the above article won't mean much because if you look at the 5 dimensions, then the gender differences here are usually small. That's where the 10 aspects come in which I'll link below.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/

Masculine & Feminine in the Myers-Briggs vs. Big Five | Personality Junkie

By A.J. Drenth Sex differences in personality and temperament have been documented in many empirical studies. In most mammalian species, including humans, males tend to…

personalityjunkie.com

The 10 aspects and are the subsets of the dimensions. The gender differences on an aspect level are much more pronounced. The managed to pinpoint which aspect of each dimension are masculine (most commonly seen in men) and feminine (most commonly seen in women).

So whenever I say masculine women or dominant women, this is what I'm referring to, not BDSM, cuckold, nor submissive role type shit.

My apologies for misunderstanding.

I would suggest if this is a misunderstanding you encounter frequently, you may want to find a better framing for it, since obviously I am not the first to scratch my head for a moment then interpret it that way.

Anyway, if you're just talking more dominant women, sure, they are out there.

I prefer dominant women myself.

Just that I'm the opposite from you -- I like these girls because I enjoy dominating dominant women. Submissive women are too "easy" (e.g., boring).

My dominant girlfriends, as well as dominant chicks I've had as female friends, have typically mostly approached their softer/more feminine prior boyfriends themselves. Basically they look for guys who seem shy and nerdy, then approach them, chat them up, and propose doing something with them, then persist until they get the guy if he's at first a little standoffish.

Sometimes they will go for guys who approach them, if those guys seem soft/shy enough and trigger their "this is my type!" radar.

If you are not that type (as I am not) you basically just end up having to go in a bit under the radar so you aren't triggering their "hey this guy isn't the kind of guy I want! I want a soft guy!" reflex.

I have never found somewhere these women predominate. All the ones I have been close to had master's degrees and worked in the corporate world... but there are a lot of women with master's degrees working in the corporate world who are regular / submissive chicks.

Best I can suggest is just be out socializing and keep an eye out for the "tells" of a dominant woman:

• Highly alert
• Highly energetic
• High levels of confidence
• Usually less dressed up / more casual
• Very talkative RIGHT AWAY on the approach
• Initiates things herself; doesn't wait for you
• Clearly very independent from the people around her; neither watching over them too closely nor letting them watch over her too much either

Chase

 

[RDRChaseMember]

For this, you’ll need to figure out where the girls your attracted to go.

And then you’ll need to figure out how the guys they like dress.

That's actually what I'm trying to do right now. That's actually the major reason why I got back into fitness, more specifically martial arts. I can get to know the girls there and figure out why they like working out, which could give me some insight into if they lean masculine naturally or if they're there for another reason.

As for the second bit I don't think I need to worry yet. Just being myself and showing up as I actually am (which is casually fashionable) can actually help me uncover this.