ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
336
1/12/19 Wow, what a horribly out of nowhere terrible night

It doesn't cease to amaze me how the littlest things can just destroy my mood and sink me into depression.

Tonight was another dance night. I felt 'bleh' going into it. I think I just need to make sure I warmup before really getting to work. Last night was as perfect a warmup as it gets, and I killed it socially. Tonight was lacking warmup so I never really got into a good state. Regardless, it was an odd dance night. The floor was packed with people just standing there or doing individual, club-like dancing. Every, and I mean every time I've ever gone partner dancing at a venue like this, the masses always get out of the way of the partner dancing. All the swinging and fancy moves send a subconscious signal for others to get out of the way. This was the first time ever it didn't happen. Not only did they not move, but that mass of people actually kept consuming more floor space as the night went on. It was very annoying and also contributed to keeping me from reaching a good state.

After about an hour there I changed venues to a different establishment for dancing. It was also unusually packed, but there was more room on the dance floor, so it was much more fun. There were some pretty cute girls there as well, so my mood was getting better.

Then I talked to a new guy friend of mine.

He is happy to talk about girls and to provide advice. He's older, in his 40s. He's definitely NOT the best person to consult on the subject, but he has a lot of experience. I'm eager to listen because I'm very curious for the opinions of anyone who's good with girls, and I'm always keeping an eye open for an in-person mentor. He complimented me on my dancing with a super cute girl. I fucked that one up by not getting contact info right after dancing with her. I for some reason was fine with the "let's dance again later" (a re-approach) and I'm sure you can guess what happens next - her and her friends leave not even 20 minutes later. Fuck me. Anyway, I go talk to my friend as we're both resting and I tell him how I fucked up by not getting her number.

He says good, you don't want to ask for contact info anyway. He then goes into his beliefs about women and dating. The bulk of it is in line with the general GC/PUA concepts, stuff like the law of least effort, being a lover not a boyfriend, let her do the chasing, etc. He believes it's not a strong thing to ask for contact info. He believes that if you meet a girl out dancing, then the odds are high you'll see her again. Be different by not asking for her contact info, be mysterious every time you see her, and then, eventually, possibly months later, she will start chasing you. I don't think I'll take that advice, but that's not the point.

The point is, as he's talking about all these things that happen to him, and as he's stating them in a "they happen to everyone" or "this is how it works" type of way, I instantly fall into a depression. What cemented it was when I told him NONE of what he's talking about ever happens to me.
- "Don't chase girls and ask for their numbers. They will come to you." Me: Uhhh there's tons of girls here that I've met, danced with, and expressed no interest in seeing again. Not one has even shown one shred of interest in chasing me and nobody has come close to giving me their number unasked.
- "blah blah I meet girls here, I meet many online blah blah" Me: I was on apps for a year. I couldn't get responses or matches with anything over a 4 to save my life. And that's with three sets of photos taken by photographer friends. Online dating simply does not work for me unless I hire some sort of wizard to take my photos for hundreds or who knows, thousands of dollars.
So "this is how it works for every guy" where my experience is "well, that never happens to me." Instant depression. Instant reminder of how fucked up I am and I have no idea how. Instant reminder that something is so fucked up about me I can't even get a girl purely from luck. It wasn't just the negative thoughts, but I don't think I've ever told someone in person how bad it's been for me before. In other words, responding to everything with "that's nice man. that never happens to me..." is what really sealed the depression. I was even getting close to crying, that's how emotional this topic is for me. I left right then and there because my mood was toast and there was no way to recover. No reason to hang around and provide everyone with depressing energy. On the drive back my eyes started to water. I know I've posted some journal entries lately about feeling down, but it's been a while since I've been THAT depressed. At least a few months.

I don't really know what to do here. I assume just wait it out and a positive day will come around sooner or later. I'll keep talking to this friend in Facebook and NOT in person so the topic can't ruin my mood and future dance nights. I'll keep picking his brain and seeing if he has any specific suggestions. Other than that I don't know. I really, really wish at least one girl could find me attractive enough to chase me. That would be so refreshing. It would be a major confirmation that I'm for sure doing some things right. All these dud numbers and dates that all die the exact same way is just screaming that there's something about me that's so 100% wrong, but I have no clue what. It's a horrible feeling. It feels like hopelessness, futility, and failure.
 

Sub-Zero

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
801
Don't be too hard on yourself man, at least you went out even though you really didn't want to. I didn't go out because I felt I would be wasting my money and time, no one is perfect.

I wouldn't take that guys advice at all tbh, you will feel like shit, like you did. Waiting for girls to chase you is not an option, especially if he Is actually going to tell you to wait for a girl to ask you out months after you dance with her. Wtf is that?

Even if that was 100% true, do you really want to play that game? I would not listen to that type of advice, you will get oneitis and where you're at right now, you do not need oneitits or you will feel 10x worse.

Imagine liking a girl so much, you just wish she would ask you out, you go to the bar week after week hoping she asks you out after your magnificent dance, you can guess the rest.

So no, do not wait girls to chase you, it helps to get signals from girls to approach, but that's it.

Here at gc we don't move slow.

Chase has many articles where he says he felt just like you, I'm sure all of the authors felt the same exact way when they were learning this shit.

Do not tell this man you wish this stuff would happen to you like it does for him. It makes you sound weak man, that's why you felt so bad. If you said it in a way like, "yeah, wish I could get girls to chase me with no effort" with a chill tone. Make you sound like you're chill.

You gotta go through these nights man and just push on, I know it's tough bro, but you have to really not be down on yourself.

You said you only attract 4s, well, use them as positive feedback that girls do like you.

The girls you like don't want you now because you either haven't approached them or you haven't leveled yourself up enough to make them want you, which you can fix.

Keep the updates coming man, good shit.
 

ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Jun 11, 2018
Messages
336
Sub-Zero said:
Don't be too hard on yourself man, at least you went out even though you really didn't want to. I didn't go out because I felt I would be wasting my money and time, no one is perfect.

I wouldn't take that guys advice at all tbh, you will feel like shit, like you did. Waiting for girls to chase you is not an option, especially if he Is actually going to tell you to wait for a girl to ask you out months after you dance with her. Wtf is that?

Even if that was 100% true, do you really want to play that game? I would not listen to that type of advice, you will get oneitis and where you're at right now, you do not need oneitits or you will feel 10x worse.

Imagine liking a girl so much, you just wish she would ask you out, you go to the bar week after week hoping she asks you out after your magnificent dance, you can guess the rest.

So no, do not wait girls to chase you, it helps to get signals from girls to approach, but that's it.

Here at gc we don't move slow.

Chase has many articles where he says he felt just like you, I'm sure all of the authors felt the same exact way when they were learning this shit.

Do not tell this man you wish this stuff would happen to you like it does for him. It makes you sound weak man, that's why you felt so bad. If you said it in a way like, "yeah, wish I could get girls to chase me with no effort" with a chill tone. Make you sound like you're chill.

You gotta go through these nights man and just push on, I know it's tough bro, but you have to really not be down on yourself.

You said you only attract 4s, well, use them as positive feedback that girls do like you.

The girls you like don't want you now because you either haven't approached them or you haven't leveled yourself up enough to make them want you, which you can fix.

Keep the updates coming man, good shit.
Thank you my friend. I appreciate your support. I really do.

I think you missed the line in the post where I said I'm NOT taking his advice there haha. Turns out my friend is a MGTOW guy. Trust me, I'm 100% GC. I 100% recognize when he says something crazy like that line about contact info haha.

I said I only matched with 4s or worse in online dating. In real life it's much much better.

Yeah I know. I just wish I could figure out what's wrong with me. Like, I have no idea. I have no idea how to troubleshoot to find out. Seppuku gave terrific suggestions of some things to try on dates. But when it comes to day to day... it's just puzzling. And of course super super frustrating. Honestly, it hasn't been fun for the last couple months.

That's probably the #1 thing I should do for myself. Have some fun. Unfortunately I'm horrible at it. Probably as horrible at it as I am with girls. I really, really struggle to find ways to have fun. Even if you gave me $100,000 today and told me to spent it today and have fun, I'd have no idea what to do.
 

Sub-Zero

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
801
Yeah tbh no one can tell u what you're doing wrong without seeing you. I was told this as well.

But Chase has made many articles where I think anyone can find out where they lack at.

You could pay for someone to coach you off here and help you or you can just read the articles and find out what it could be.

The last one Chase made was a very good one that I don't think many would have thought of on their own.

But if all the problems you have are just getting girls back home, read the articles about dates and what to ask on dates, also improve your sexiness day in and out.

And no problem bro.
 

ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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336
Sub-Zero said:
Yeah tbh no one can tell u what you're doing wrong without seeing you. I was told this as well.

But Chase has made many articles where I think anyone can find out where they lack at.

You could pay for someone to coach you off here and help you or you can just read the articles and find out what it could be.

The last one Chase made was a very good one that I don't think many would have thought of on their own.

But if all the problems you have are just getting girls back home, read the articles about dates and what to ask on dates, also improve your sexiness day in and out.

And no problem bro.
Agreed. No one can really know without seeing me. So I suppose I'm just fishing for opinions on what it can be, and I've definitely got some helpful suggestions!

The main, concrete pattern problem I've had is I can't convert on dates to save me. I've never hooked up with a girl the night I met her, but I chalk that up to terrible logistics on my end.

Any articles in particular that you like? I need to re-read 'When Your Approach Just Isn't Working.' It's been a while since I've read that so I'm sure I can get some interesting thoughts from there.

Thanks again man!
 

ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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1/13/19 Much better night

Woke up still depressed. But felt better after watching some YouTube videos. RSD Tyler is a legend and just watching him talk will improve your mood guaranteed. But I also watching some videos on new dance moves. Lately I think I mission-creep'd myself from going out to dance for fun to going out to dance to meet girls.

Tonight I knew I was going to go out dancing again because I knew the socializing and the fun would be great and because bad nights and good nights happen. But because I watched those dance videos, I went out planning to try some new moves on the floor. That helped make the night out more about dancing rather than girls.

It ended up being a great night. Saw and danced with many female friends, tried the new dance moves to great success, and got contact info from three girls. [Two I had already met and are more in the friends category. Only one was brand new and was the one I'd like to take on a date. She hasn't responded yet haha].

So lessons to learn from this weekend:
- ALWAYS WARM UP. ALWAYS. The night hasn't begun until you've opened 20 people.
- Don't talk about my journey with other guys as I'm out and about. It's just depressing. Save it for texting on another day haha
- Remember to dance for the sake of dancing and having fun. Always be looking up new moves or technical details to work on on the dance floor. It focuses the mind on dancing, not on picking up girls (in a good way).
 

Sub-Zero

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
801
I like too many of Chase's articles to be honest. I'll say that if you're having a hard time or something, just look up an article for advice on it and read the article again. It helps me to remember things I forget.






ElderPrice said:
Sub-Zero said:
Yeah tbh no one can tell u what you're doing wrong without seeing you. I was told this as well.

But Chase has made many articles where I think anyone can find out where they lack at.

You could pay for someone to coach you off here and help you or you can just read the articles and find out what it could be.

The last one Chase made was a very good one that I don't think many would have thought of on their own.

But if all the problems you have are just getting girls back home, read the articles about dates and what to ask on dates, also improve your sexiness day in and out.

And no problem bro.
Agreed. No one can really know without seeing me. So I suppose I'm just fishing for opinions on what it can be, and I've definitely got some helpful suggestions!

The main, concrete pattern problem I've had is I can't convert on dates to save me. I've never hooked up with a girl the night I met her, but I chalk that up to terrible logistics on my end.

Any articles in particular that you like? I need to re-read 'When Your Approach Just Isn't Working.' It's been a while since I've read that so I'm sure I can get some interesting thoughts from there.

Thanks again man!
 

ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
336
Mid to end of January 2019 - Got lucky, but still got things to figure out

Not too much to report during this time. One week I was out of town (with nothing to report unfortunately), another week I was under the weather. Maybe another week it was same old same old.

All numbers I currently have to work on aren't even getting responses. Except one. One girl who I've known mostly as an acquaintance and just recently got her number seems to be into me. I haven't asked her out. I think this week I'll try and see what happens. She's very cute and has a sexy side, but at the same time she just isn't my type. So she hasn't excited me to move faster, such as when I first met her many months ago.

Now, despite all of that, I'm happy to report that I finally got lucky and got a LR-!

This one was COMPLETE luck. I finally, for the first time ever, had a girl make things easy. It was so fucking refreshing, I can't describe how like a breath of fresh air it feels. Now don't get me wrong. I definitely helped make my own luck. I would not have succeeded without knowing the GC principles. I still needed the content here to know how to move things forward, escalate, be intimate, etc. For more details, check out the LR on the FR board!

During the not so successful days during this time period, I kept reading here to try and find areas where I can approve. There's definitely something big missing with me. Girls are just so neutral with me. I ended up stumbling on this article I haven't read before: How to Get a Girl's Attention and Keep It (https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-get-girls-attention-and-keep-it).

Early in this article, Chase lists some ways women show interest:
They play with their hair around you -- the more, the better
They steal glances at you
They sit near you
They stand near you
They open you, talk to you randomly, or ask you for help
They hit you or slap you, laugh at your jokes, or otherwise make you notice them

Girls just don't do these to me. Sure, maybe older ones or unattractive ones or ones with kids, but a childless girls in her 20s who's remotely attractive? Very very rare. Essentially never. They don't play with their hair. They don't come and sit by me. If I stand near them (or seemingly, anyone) they end up walking away. Like, if I stand in an area near people I'll be all by myself within a couple minutes. No fucking clue why. Even if I'm just standing there doing nothing else. Anyway, they also do NOT open me. Ever ever ever. They might politely laugh at my jokes, but they definitely don't do anything to make me notice them.

Chase breaks attention down to 3 elements:
Noticing
Assessing (attractive or not? attainable or not?)
Taking Action

Currently we know she's not doing the last one. Perhaps I'm failing at the second one? I'm pretty sure I'm overall attractive. Maybe an attainability issue? That's still one of the few concepts here I can't seem to get my head around. Or of course it could be the first and I'm not getting girls to notice me in the first place.

To get girls attention, Chase suggestions 6 things.
1. Start peacocking
2. Be loud
3. Be effortless
4. Be playful
5. Position yourself well
6. Pose

My thoughts on where I'm at with these:
1. I've never peacocked. I consider myself well dressed. But not peacocking at all. I don't really own any accessories.
2. Not sure here. Probably needs improvement. I'd like to think I'm noticed when I'm killing it on the dance floor or working the room at a meetup.
3. I think I'm good here...
4. Good here
5. Could be good, could be better. Depends on the situation.
6. Not sure how I look but I'm consciously trying to stand with good body language.

So as a result of all this, now I'm wondering if I'm having issues getting girls attention in the first place. It would explain why young, attractive girls are basically an impossible demographic for me. Or again could it be an attainability issue somehow? Don't know. But I'll work on these areas and see what I can uncover.
 

ray_zorse

Modern Human
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Messages
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hey dude,

So far I have only read the introductory post, based on the title I had an inkling it would touch on confidence issues and your upbringing, which it did. It always does. The height and the acne thing are extra challenges (for me an extra challenge is that I wear powerful hearing aids), however I would wager that the bigger issue is the confidence issue and the not having been affirmed regularly while growing up.

As a dude who was also quite unsuccessful with women until late 30s, and still struggles a bit with psychological issues, I recommend as one part of your improvement strategy to look at inner game quite carefully. Depending on how much ground is to be made up you might benefit from reading books on toxic shame (see John Bradshaw) and/or learning about affirmations and guided meditations.

Anyhow, I saw you are posting FRs and that is wonderful. Action is the best medicine. The direction of such action may be tweaked as you gain experience. But there must be action in the first place. Stick at it! We are all barracking for you :) :) :)

cheers,
Ray
 

ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
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Messages
336
ray_zorse said:
hey dude,

So far I have only read the introductory post, based on the title I had an inkling it would touch on confidence issues and your upbringing, which it did. It always does. The height and the acne thing are extra challenges (for me an extra challenge is that I wear powerful hearing aids), however I would wager that the bigger issue is the confidence issue and the not having been affirmed regularly while growing up.

As a dude who was also quite unsuccessful with women until late 30s, and still struggles a bit with psychological issues, I recommend as one part of your improvement strategy to look at inner game quite carefully. Depending on how much ground is to be made up you might benefit from reading books on toxic shame (see John Bradshaw) and/or learning about affirmations and guided meditations.

Anyhow, I saw you are posting FRs and that is wonderful. Action is the best medicine. The direction of such action may be tweaked as you gain experience. But there must be action in the first place. Stick at it! We are all barracking for you :) :) :)

cheers,
Ray
Thanks for the kind words Ray!

This journal is now about a month old and perhaps I'm dedicating a lot of time to this because it feels like I'm learning a lot really quickly. For instance, currently I'm in a good mood. Got a LR- recently out of pure luck which was sooo refreshing. And I have a couple girls I'm working on. So where I'm going with this is I think a lesson I've learned is that my 'inner game' is largely a function of my mood. If times are going bad, then yeah, of course I'm going to feel terrible on the inside. But when times are good, or similarly, when I make sure I make a lot of my focus on simply having fun, then yeah, I'm going to feel much better on the inside. Honestly when I'm feeling good and having fun with life, all those negative thoughts focused on the past just go away.

My experiences on the matter, at least!
 

ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
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2/4/19

A very meh weekend. Just same old same old results. Girls that are the least bit attractive just aren't into me or have literally zero margin for error. Because of this I think I might be getting tired of dancing. I'm sure when I'm in a better mood and take some time off it'll be fun again, but for now I've gone out dancing enough now where I clearly see the results, and little tweaks here and there don't make a fucking difference. I'm either just not catching girls attention, or my attainability is just royally fucked up. Still trying to understand attainability and how to fix mine (assuming it's even the problem...). Still trying to figure out what's wrong with me.

I re-read Chase's "What To Do When Your Approach Just Isn't Working." Out of everything on the list, I think the ones I'm missing the mark on are #1 and #4: my vibe is wrong and I'm not tailoring myself to the women I want.

As far as vibe goes, I've never had a freaking clue what my vibe is like. I've read every single article Chase listed in his vibe section in that article. I don't really know what to do differently here. I assume since I can't catch attractive girls attention my vibe definitely sucks, but again I have no clue. I'm going to try again asking some friends for impressions. Didn't work the last time I tried it. It almost seemed like they just gave polite answers and were holding back the truth. Who knows.

Regarding tailoring myself to the women I want, yeah I've been aware of this, and I'll keep trying to do it. This week I'm going to try finding other types of girls. Salsa girls just aren't interested, country girls just aren't interested, etc. I've always wanted to give a legit try toward nerdy girls, but I don't really know where to find them week in and week out. At least dancing girls are always at dance night. But nerdy girls? Yeah a comic convention is great, but that's once a year... Going to need more options. I found some possibly nerd-oriented meetups this week that are having big events, so my plan is to attend those and see what transpires. I'm not going to solely game. It would be great to make some friends and find out where all the nerdy peeps hang out each week.

That's the plan for this week!
 

ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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2/10/19 Decent week/weekend. Starting to recognize some strengths. Also may have witnessed first instance of social proof.

First, during the week I attended a couple meetup events. They looked like they would draw a good size crowd with a decent number of girls. Girls didn't end up going to either. But at this point I'd say meetups may very well be my strongest suit. Or to be more precise, not so much meetup events, but events where there's a bunch of people to mingle with and you're all there to meet people, not embarrass yourselves, and have fun. I think I'm just pretty good at socializing/cold approaching especially compared to others. At these things, everyone is nervous to meet others and to start a conversation. I'm the one guy there working the room like a politician, trying to say hi to as many people as possible and trying to get to know everyone. No doubt the girls there notice and are impressed. Anyway, TLDR, the events this week were lame, but I'm feeling pretty good about meetups/parties. I need to find more events like this! Actual meetup events aren't regular enough.

For the weekend, I went dancing again. I know I said previously that I might want to cut back on it, but this week I couldn't come up with anything else to do instead, and it IS still fun. Also both nights I felt tired for whatever reason. So part of me wanted to test the responses I got from being a little out of it. Being tired definitely made me more DGAF than normal, but I was still able to shoot the shit, be playful, socialize, etc like any other night.

Friday night went well. The Friday venue I'm going to is starting to attract a TON of people from the dancing friends group. On any night of the week, there's, I don't know, 5-15 friends that'll be at a venue. On Friday it's getting to 30-40. As a result, when I got there, I wasn't running out of people to say hi to, high five, hug hello, dance with, etc. So therefore, when I met these 5 or so girls who I hadn't met before and weren't in the group, they were definitely interested in me. No aloofness here! I chalk it up to the social proof. If I was talking to one of these girls, a female friend would come up and ask me to dance. When I was talking to another, a bunch of guy friends strolled in so I had to high five them all. Good stuff. Of all these interested girls, I was only into two of them. One was with her date so I left that alone (but I got her friend's FB info so I can probably get connected with this girl down the line if I wanted to), and the other I got her number. She was really into me, super super cute, but drunk, and her friend revealed she has kids, which is a major turn off for me. I'll bang her if it happens, but other than that, oh well.

Can't complain about Saturday. Same venue that I've been going to for a couple months now. Met one super cute girl who was definitely into me, but I have a gut feeling I killed the interaction somehow. My thought is I danced with her too much. Oh well. I'll try texting her this week and we'll see for sure.

The downsize from this weekend is me remembering why I hate shopping so much. One goal for this weekend was to go and buy some new clothes. I mainly wanted some new, casual shirts and I started exploring buying some accessories for the first time too. I have measurements that are basically the opposite of the average guy. I'm short, muscular, with broad shoulders. In essence, nobody makes shirts catering to that frame. In the past I've tried on every shirt from every brand in the mall, and I found ONE that fit me well. It was one brand's t-shirt. Their other kinds of shirts didn't fit. Just their t-shirts. Weird, right? So basically for casual shirts, I just have that t-shirt in 10 or so different colors. I don't like this and want more variety and more "proper" shirts for different purposes. So I went to some stores, tried on some shirts, and instantly remembered doing this previously. Once again, absolutely nothing fit. Not even close.

So my goal for this coming week is to look online and see what made-to-measure options exist, particularly at the price point I want. I'm also going to brainstorm what accessories to look into. I don't want cheap, generic rings and bracelets and shit. I'd like them to be a little more relevant and actually communicate something about me. We'll see what I can find online.
 

ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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2/17/19 Good weekend. Good things happen when you approach. Curious if I'm seeing a pattern regarding height. Trying to make significant changes since I'm convinced something is very wrong about my game.

No lays, but not a bad weekend. Both Friday and Saturday night went out dancing. They were fun nights and I met several new girls. Got contact info from 5.... 4 numbers and 1 Snapchat from a girl who said she has a long distance boyfriend.

I probably should count my approaches one of these days because I didn't meet all that many new girls. Maybe 20? So definitely a strong number conversion rate. Plus there were a couple girls thrown in there who were into me but had boyfriends so I didn't bother or feel like asking. I'm sure there were a couple other girls thrown in there who would have given me their numbers if I asked, but they didn't excite me so I didn't bother.

One girl was a fantastic demonstration of the idea that you should probably approach far more than what your brain feels comfortable with. Let me give an example. So almost always when I go out to dance, I hang around the dance floor. I obviously like to dance, but it's also easiest to look for girls to open/ask to dance who are also near the dance floor. Or stated differently, it's sort of strange to leave the dance floor, walk to the entire opposite side of the establishment where people are sitting and drinking/eating, and ask them to dance, or open them in general. Usually they aren't interested in dancing (if they would, they'd be by the dance floor...). It's basically a 'walk up to a group of friends and start talking' type of thing. Standard instance of approach anxiety.

Anyway, I walked to that opposite side to visit the less crowded back bar to get some water. I was passing by a table on my way to the bar when a ton of people walking from the opposite direction came through. I stopped to let them go by. At the same time a girl at the table I was passing got up at the exact same time to also go to the bar. She also was just standing there waiting for everyone to pass. We coincidentally were facing each other, we looked at each other and realized we were doing the exact same thing. Easy peasy opener. On top of that, she was extremely attractive. Super short (my favorite) and enormous tits that were just barely being held in her dress. We started chatting and she hooked immediately. I asked her to dance, she said yes, and she kept wanting to dance with me for multiple songs in a row. She may have had a lot to drink that night... Yadda yadda yadda I got her number and she got taken back by her friends. Apparently it was her birthday and her friends weren't happy that she left the group for 20-30 minutes to flirt with a guy. I haven't heard from her yet so I'm not expecting to see her again, but point being, this was a great example for why you should approach a lot, even the seemingly difficult situations. You never know when one of those girls will be absolutely thrilled to have met you.

After this weekend, I'm curious if I'm starting to see a pattern with the results I'm getting with girls with regards to their height. I'm not talking just this weekend, but throughout my entire journey, short girls just seem easier than everyone else. They just seem more open to meeting me, giving me their numbers, and just talking to me in general. They don't seem as disinterested as everyone else. All the numbers I got this weekend were from shorter girls. I still don't think I've had a tall girl excited to meet me and give me her number and that's despite the exact same approach and the same confidence used when approaching them, conversing with them, and communicating intent.

I can't say for 100%, but it sure seems like it's a strong possibility that shorter girls are more open to me, while same height or taller girls just aren't. I've read all the articles here that make it clear that height isn't an issue and I agree with them completely. I guess it's just another example that something in my game is pretty wrong. Something about me isn't convincing them to drop their "he's not my type" reasoning.

The one thing I've been trying to do better at lately is my clothing. My clothing has always been in that 'good bare minimum' category. Solid color tshirts that fit near-perfectly. Dark, fitted jeans. Clean canvas shoes. A little styling in my hair. A trimmed beard. No fouls whatsoever, but no killer fashion sense either.

I don't know if I'll ever be a fashionable guy. That's just never been my personality for a number of reasons. But I'm trying. This week I bought two new pairs of jeans. One of them a gray pair. I've never had jeans that weren't blue, so that's brand new to me. It looked like a good, multi-functional color in the wardrobe so I'm eager to try it out when I get it back from the tailor.

I also tried multiple times this week to get new shirts. Not tshirts. I'd like to try long sleeve casual button downs. But I'm running into a problem I've ALWAYS faced which makes me HATE shopping: absolutely no shirt off the rack fits, not even close. Every single brand makes way too low armholes, and then couple that with my abnormal measurements. I'm short so I need Smalls for the proper neck sizes and slimmer mid-sections. But I'm muscular so I need at least a Medium for the chest size. Then I have broad shoulders so the shoulder length is usually off too. I went out to the stores 3 times this week to look for shirts, just looking for something that fits in the shoulders and chest, and just have a tailor do the rest. But nothing came close. My plan for this week is to explore more online. Hopefully I can find a good site that can make custom shirts for a good price.

So all in all I'm going to work on improving my appearance via my wardrobe. I may also look into teeth whitening. My teeth aren't yellow, but they can be whiter. I may also look into adding a ring, or a necklace. I've never ever been a jewelry or accessory guy before so that will be new. I'll look online. I don't want general shit like a plain ring or plain bracelets you can get at any store. I'd prefer something more intentional, that actually tells the other person a little bit about me.

We'll see if any of that makes a difference and starts helping me catch the attention and hook more attractive and higher quality girls.
 

ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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336
2/21/19 Depressed, found a couple interesting articles about positivity

Don't know why exactly, but this week I've been depressed. I mean, it's due to my lack of success with girls, but nothing in particular triggered it. I have a few girls in the fire that are at least responding to my texts, but I haven't gotten any commitments to meet up yet. I'm optimistic.

When I get depressed I almost always try and find new articles that will speak to me, snap me out of it, and give me something significant to work on that I hadn't considered before. This time I stumbled across a couple articles that particularly resonated with me. This is rare, but when it happens it's a good thing. It's that ah-ha that I'm looking for. Anyway, these two articles right here on GC are:

Be the Lightbringer: Dating and the Sublime Benefits of Positivity
Having a Positive Outlook vs. Solving Every Little Detail

These struck me when Chase talked about being someone who seemingly has all the fundamentals down but just isn't getting the results they want, and when Cody talked about well, as his title suggests, the person who tries to solve every little single detail. What these articles lead to is the idea of how important it is to just be positive. Positivity just solves a lot of problems and it's hard to advance without positivity.

It struck me because this might be a big problem for me. I wholeheartedly don't think I'm negative. I always try to smile and be as positive as I can, and I definitely don't SAY anything negative about others. I don't complain when around women. Nothing like that. But I definitely could work on being more positive. So I'm not negative. But I'm not overly positive. Maybe I'm just perfectly neutral in my demeanor. Maybe I LEAN positive since I have been able to talk to girls, flirt with them, socialize with them, get their numbers, and get dates with them. But maybe my results aren't what I want because I'm not positive ENOUGH.

As I've said in previous posts, I definitely need to work on complimenting. I actually never compliment. Not by choice. It just doesn't naturally flow out of me. I'm working on changing that. And after these articles, I'm going to work on being more expressive of my positive thoughts and feelings. If I enjoy spending time with someone (be it anyone, not just a girl), I should tell them. If I'm very happy that I was able to meet an awesome person, I should tell them. If I look forward to hanging out with certain friends, I should tell them that. This is starting to sound a lot like the topic of 'qualifying' mentioned here relative to girls, another topic I'm consciously trying to improve upon.

Because wearing positivity on my sleeve is something new to my personality that I've never done before (I was always the shy/introverted type during my youth), my plan is to obviously try to be more positive in person, but I also want to read a little bit into ways of showing positivity that I hadn't considered or just can't really come up with myself. If anyone has any recommendations, that would be awesome. Otherwise it's another date with Ms. Google :)
 

ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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336
2/24/19 Goodbye salsa scene

Last night went out to salsa night for the first time in a couple weeks. After months of salsa nights as well as other styles (country, swing, etc), I think I can now conclude salsa night and salsa girls are just a futile endeavor and a waste of time - at least for me, right now.

Compared to the girls in other dances, salsa girls are just cold. On a country night for instance, I can always find girls who are excited to meet me, friendly, and happy to dance. On a country night, I can get a "yes" from every girl I ask to dance, regardless of my skill or theirs.

Salsa girls aren't excited to meet me, they don't bite on friendly or playful conversation, and there's always a significant percentage of girls who say no to a dance. They just aren't as friendly as girls in other scenes, despite the exact same 'approach' at each.

I know what I'd have to do to improve here - mainly become of her 'salsa' type. That doesn't interest me. Salsa girls don't interest me enough to do that. So at least for a long while I've decided to stop going to salsa nights. It's better to use my time in other venues that lend to a much more positive and fun experience. Not just referring to girls, but the whole experience - dancing for fun, meeting friends, meeting new friendly people. All that.
 

Científico

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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230
Hey ElderPrice - I can say from personal experience that salsa is great for meeting women. I've been getting numbers, dates, girlfriends, sex, and relationships (including my 4-year LTR) from salsa for the past 10 years or so. But the same is almost certainly true for every other social dance scene, including swing, tango, whatever. Focus on getting good at one of the scenes and making that the primary one in which you know the dance well (women like it when you are good at the dance), genuinely enjoy the music and meet the most people, but feel free to dabble in the other ones on the side.

All the way back in 2011, one of the hottest lays I've ever had in my life was a girl I met at salsa, took out on a 1st date to a swing dancing venue down the street from my apartment, then pulled back to my place afterwards - without realizing it at the time, I had the perfect logistical set-up, and a unique date in which I was giving the girl a unique dance experience distinct from what she normally gets.

If you are doing multiple dance scenes you might be able to pull that off (just beware of a venue that is too crowded - taking a girl on a dancing date with too many other male leads there is asking for trouble).
 

ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Científico said:
Hey ElderPrice - I can say from personal experience that salsa is great for meeting women. I've been getting numbers, dates, girlfriends, sex, and relationships (including my 4-year LTR) from salsa for the past 10 years or so. But the same is almost certainly true for every other social dance scene, including swing, tango, whatever. Focus on getting good at one of the scenes and making that the primary one in which you know the dance well (women like it when you are good at the dance), genuinely enjoy the music and meet the most people, but feel free to dabble in the other ones on the side.

All the way back in 2011, one of the hottest lays I've ever had in my life was a girl I met at salsa, took out on a 1st date to a swing dancing venue down the street from my apartment, then pulled back to my place afterwards - without realizing it at the time, I had the perfect logistical set-up, and a unique date in which I was giving the girl a unique dance experience distinct from what she normally gets.

If you are doing multiple dance scenes you might be able to pull that off (just beware of a venue that is too crowded - taking a girl on a dancing date with too many other male leads there is asking for trouble).
Hey man, thanks for the thoughts. I agree regarding dancing. If anyone wants to get better with girls, I'd recommend they go do some sort of dancing. Salsa is probably a great choice in many cities and for many people. All I'm saying is that for me and for all the other dance styles I could be spending my time on, salsa is by far the worst ROI. I just don't get ANY interest from those girls.
 

ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
336
2/27/19 A little depressed

For the past couple days I've been a little depressed. The recent batch of numbers I've gotten have gone nowhere. No dates on the horizon. The last couple nights out dancing weren't good nights with regards to meeting new girls. Still working on my new clothing, so no changes there at the moment.

But I'm not majorly depressed in the past because I have some things to work on. Having some clear areas to work on always takes the edge off the depression because it provides some clear signs of immediate hope. In this case, I know my appearance (clothing) will be improving soon because I have some new bling on its way in the mail, and by this weekend at the latest I plan to check out a local MTM shop to order some new shirts.

The most interesting thing I've thought about lately is that I may have identified a huge issue with my overall vibe or demeanor. You see, regardless of my mood - whether it's the absolute best I've ever felt or the worst - my demeanor is about the same. I'm just a stoic guy. I'm not expressive. I don't wear my emotions on my sleeve. I don't get riled up. I don't let things get under my skin.

I think this is hindering me. There are people that I've met that I really like, but I can totally understand how they wouldn't know it from interacting with me. I've commented before about how I'm terrible at giving compliments. Well, if I don't verbally communicate positivity, and my body language doesn't communicate positivity - again even when I'm feeling my absolute best and happiest - NO WONDER I struggle to get anything from girls and NO WONDER I NEVER get invited to things by old or new friends.

This would explain some things.

But how the hell do I undo this? How does a guy change his personality to THIS extent? Is it even possible? I read an article here from Halvor who talked about the idea that guys should make sure they're using a game style that suits them. I believe this was his Alpha vs. Sigma article. Basically, he either said or implied that something like the 'Alpha' route might not be the best style for everyone. Introverted guys might actually do better with girls by not trying to be 'alpha.' Anyway I bring this up to ask - is there a style that works well with being a low expressive guy? Or do I have to train myself to communicate - verbally and through body language - my positive emotions?

Been thinking lately about texting every awesome person I've met this past year (just talking friends here) and telling them straight up, out of nowhere, that I'm very happy and grateful to have met them and that I always have a great time hanging out with them. It would be very random and probably oddly out of character, but there's no harm in that, right? It wouldn't be too weird or anything, right? I think I'll try it.

As far as girls go, I think I just have to consciously focus every time I go out from here on out on complimenting. Maybe make a rule - no conversation without a sincere compliment. Hopefully better clothing and expressing my positive feelings as best as possible can help me get past this huge, overall sticking point.

Anyone have any tips on how to do better at expressing one's positive feelings - both verbally and through body language?
 

Científico

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
230
ElderPrice, I can relate. Right now I have an extraordinarily high flake rate to the numbers I get and no solid prospects, which leads to brief episodes of feeling useless, particular when alone in my apartment. The way I am dealing with it right now is embracing action.

Always be going out and meeting people to hone social skills and practice flirting. No more "comfort building" with women - the way to talk to them is to tease and break rapport. This requires practice, almost like being a stand-up comedian does.

In the evenings, go to meetups or dancing. During the day, go out on solo daygame missions to bang out at least 3,5,10,approaches. Just don't stay at home moping around.

It feels better to me to be actively working to improve my situation.
 

ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
336
Científico said:
ElderPrice, I can relate. Right now I have an extraordinarily high flake rate to the numbers I get and no solid prospects, which leads to brief episodes of feeling useless, particular when alone in my apartment. The way I am dealing with it right now is embracing action.

Always be going out and meeting people to hone social skills and practice flirting. No more "comfort building" with women - the way to talk to them is to tease and break rapport. This requires practice, almost like being a stand-up comedian does.

In the evenings, go to meetups or dancing. During the day, go out on solo daygame missions to bang out at least 3,5,10,approaches. Just don't stay at home moping around.

It feels better to me to be actively working to improve my situation.
Agreed completely! And no problem there on my end. Still going out and trying. I'm not that depressed! Where do you go for day game? Any suggestions besides a mall or grocery store?
 
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