Far-left girls with strong frames?

[Karea Ricardus D.]

I was shopping to get back in field the other day and a sales girl started harping on progressivism. When I said I prefer masculine colors, she said "there's no such thing" and gave me a mini lecture about gender. "You still haven't gotten that out of your head yet?"

Had me stumped for a minute, mostly because of the disapproving tone and condescending vibe she had about it. Back in my day, people weren't so mentally ill yet that they didn't know the difference between male and female.

Now one interaction isn't a reason to start thinking, but a friend of mine has warned me that I'll encounter this a lot in field. He's around a lot of young women and he says many of them you can't talk 5 minutes before they start lecturing you.

I thought through the usual shit test responses...

• Snip and stack: "You still haven't gotten that out of your head yet?" Response: "Hey, do you also have this one size bigger?"
• Agree and amplify: "You still haven't gotten that out of your head yet" Response: "No, I'm a caveman, I rode here on a dinosaur."
• Absurdify: "You still haven't gotten that out of your head yet?" Response: "Oh, totally, I usually wear pink skirts but they're in the laundry."

I don't really like these in that context, I'd like to have a better one that's more dominant and squishes the goofy frame, but without getting confrontational. It should be light hearted and end the topic.

I guess the real answer is a girl starts revealing this kind of extremism, you run as far as your legs will take you. But, I'd still like to have better comebacks.

How do you guys usually handle girls lecturing about (1) toxic masculinity (2) evil white people (3) climate change (4) gender madness?

 

[Teevster]

They usually think they are being smart and they usually do this stuff with men they think they can get away with. I usually outframe them hard with something hyper sophisticated. I do not care if she understands what I say. What I care about is:

1. Her realizing I am not dumb and may destroy her - these women tend to do this shit to win social points, to seem smart. Wokeness is quasi-philosophy. When I display that I may make her look dumb, she as a woman, will choose the risk-averse option and change subject.
2. Avoid debating, avoid confronting. Do not make her loose face. Here pacing and leading is key!

Examples:

"You still haven't gotten that out of your head yet"

Me: I have, but I tend to use conventional terms, since that is the pragrmatic choice within a social context and interaction. So my bad, I meant "typically considered masculine colors". I can't deconstruct terms in every interaction.

Me: If masculine and feminine and none-existent terms, then why do we have them? and have you heard about Bertrand Russel and his theory of denotion? Truth in language depends on not only context, but the meaning we attribute to the terms.

Me: It is a danger to neglect the existence of "masculinity" as a thing, because else, how can one talk about toxic masculinity for example? If masculinity isn't a thing, wouldn't we just be talking about toxicity? (latter is a bit more confrontative, and does not contain pacing an leading... and thus a bit more risk).

I usually don't get much of this, due to the complex nature of some of my gambits (they know I will toast them) and I am sure me telling them that I have 6+ years of philosophy studies probably demotivates them.

Best,
Teevster

 

[Teevster]

Basically, they are the new flavor of shittests.

And they require similar medicine.

Just like when a girl asked you to buy her a drink back in the days, you wouldnt debate it. You wouldn't confront. You would just reframe. I am still convinced pacing and leading is the best way to handle tests, especially of this type.

But this is just a test. Very rarely will you meet "true believers".

Best,
Teevster

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Yo!

Me: I have, but I tend to use conventional terms, since that is the pragrmatic choice within a social context and interaction. So my bad, I meant "typically considered masculine colors". I can't deconstruct terms in every interaction.

Hmm, I don't like this one. It accepts her frame - she's right, I was wrong, I admit there is no such thing as a masculine color. Then I
reword my statement to be more compliant with progressive gender views. That's not congruent for me (maybe it is for you).

Me: If masculine and feminine and none-existent terms, then why do we have them? and have you heard about Bertrand Russel and his theory of denotion? Truth in language depends on not only context, but the meaning we attribute to the terms.

I like this one. Very confusing for her haa. "theory of denotion". I think this is a great move... show superior understanding of philosophy in one sentence with lots of big words and then get off the topic.

Me: It is a danger to neglect the existence of "masculinity" as a thing, because else, how can one talk about toxic masculinity for example? If masculinity isn't a thing, wouldn't we just be talking about toxicity? (latter is a bit more confrontative, and does not contain pacing an leading... and thus a bit more risk).

Yeah not bad in concept... they believe in toxic masculinity but do not believe in masculinity, you're calling out the inherent contradiction in their world view but it could lead to a debate. I agree, more risky.

Just like when a girl asked you to buy her a drink back in the days, you wouldnt debate it. You wouldn't confront. You would just reframe. I am still convinced pacing and leading is the best way to handle tests, especially of this type.

Makes sense. It's a touchy subject because you're immediately on the topic of politics (which I never used to talk politics with girls before the culture wars made everyone crazy). And those topics are so intertwined with everyone's egos and identities that they quickly turn confrontational.

But this is just a test. Very rarely will you meet "true believers".

Good to know.

 

[Teevster]

Hmm, I don't like this one. It accepts her frame - she's right, I was wrong, I admit there is no such thing as a masculine color. Then I
reword my statement to be more compliant with progressive gender views. That's not congruent for me (maybe it is for you).

Well, call it progressive, but truth remains that feminine and masculine are not categorical terms, but rather fluctuating ones, to which their meaning is quite relative and subjective. So there is SOME truths to that progressive view. They just take it 100 steps too far, which is basically what I disagree with.

Best,
Teevster

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Well, call it progressive, but truth remains that feminine and masculine are not categorical terms, but rather fluctuating ones, to which their meaning is quite relative and subjective. So there is SOME truths to that progressive view. They just take it 100 steps too far, which is basically what I disagree with.

Oh, okay. I get now what you meant by "typically considered masculine colors"... fair enough.

But yeah, debating this in field because is just going to make people upset and kill the vibe. I think the topic needs to be reframed in a light-hearted way and moved on from.

 

[Teevster]

Oh, okay. I get now what you meant by "typically considered masculine colors"... fair enough.

But yeah, debating this in field because is just going to make people upset and kill the vibe. I think the topic needs to be reframed in a light-hearted way and moved on from.

But they don't want to debate if they feel you may hit them hard back!

Understand.. this is not like debating with some libertarian or communist, who has read tons of litterature, know their shit and believe in the cause. This is some low level crap people say to sound cool and sophisticated. So...
1. If you convey that you may destroy them in a debate if it should occur
2. You don't necessarily outright disagree with them (pacing and leading), yet happen to be no wimp (leading) making you pass the test.
3 Don't make them look bad publicly... (thanks to the PACING element of pacing and leading)

.... they will not have any incentives to keep debating this.

I feel you still struggle to wrap your head around the fact that this is either a test, or a way to score social points. Once you understand and grasp this, finding the solution becomes a piece of cake.

-Teevster

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

I feel you still struggle to wrap your head around the fact that this is either a test, or a way to score social points.

I get the social points thing, you mean "virtue signaling", right? I struggle more with the "pacing" part of the pace-and-lead because I generally disagree with leftist views, so I find very little to pace on.

I can see how it would work for you though. If you already sympathize with some more moderate leftist views and have a big background on philosophy etc... not saying it wouldn't work, but rather, it's not really congruent for me.

Upon further reflection, I think absurdifying is probably the best move for me because these shit tests are so absurd to me in the first place. In other words, "absurdify that which is already absurd". Like this one:

Absurdify: "You still haven't gotten that out of your head yet?" Response: "Oh, totally, I usually wear pink skirts but they're in the laundry."

It frames her views as even more ridiculous than they already are, but with a fun vibe that she can't call me out for cause I'm just being playful and making a joke.

That should make it pretty unflappable. I think I'll play around with this angle if these kinds of shit tests come up again and see how that goes in the field.

 

[Teevster]

I get the social points thing, you mean "virtue signaling", right? I struggle more with the "pacing" part of the pace-and-lead because I generally disagree with leftist views, so I find very little to pace on.

I can see how it would work for you though. If you already sympathize with some more moderate leftist views and have a big background on philosophy etc... not saying it wouldn't work, but rather, it's not really congruent for me.

Upon further reflection, I think absurdifying is probably the best move for me because these shit tests are so absurd to me in the first place. In other words, "absurdify that which is already absurd". Like this one:

It frames her views as even more ridiculous than they already are, but with a fun vibe that she can't call me out for cause I'm just being playful and making a joke.

That should make it pretty unflappable. I think I'll play around with this angle if these kinds of shit tests come up again and see how that goes in the field.

Well, if pacing and leading isn't for you, then you must find another solution. I am sure there are plenty.

However the key take-aways here is that you need to treat this like a frame-grab/test. Once you treat it that way, and you have that as your starting point, I think it will be much easier for you to craft a solution.

Good luck, and let us know what you come up with.

-Teevster

 

[Chase]

@Karea Ricardus D.,

What's your usual style of handling tests? Can you devise something that uses that?

@Teevster's is to out-judo them at their own game.

My default when people lecture me on dumb stuff is just to pretend I am dumb and have no idea what they are talking about. So like:

I was shopping to get back in field the other day and a sales girl started harping on progressivism. When I said I prefer masculine colors, she said "there's no such thing" and gave me a mini lecture about gender. "You still haven't gotten that out of your head yet?"

YOU: I'm looking for masculine colors.​

​

HER: There's no such thing. blah blah blah gender. You still haven't gotten that out of your head yet?​

​

YOU: Yeah, I guess it's still in there. So what would be the steps if I wanted to get it out of there?​

​

HER: Well, you could take some women's studies courses, for starters.​

​

YOU: That sounds pretty good. What part of women am I studying in these courses? Are they attractive women or do you have to study the unattractive ones too?​

Etc.

Once people figure out you were actually tooling them they get all flustered, thinking they were lecturing a willing student in good faith, and just leave you alone after that.

Chase

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

What's your usual style of handling tests? Can you devise something that uses that?

Yeah, see above 3 examples, I prefer example 3.

Teevster's is to out-judo them at their own game.

I noticed lol. I'd be interested to hear from more people who also disagree with gender fluidity, on how they would handle.

Once people figure out you were actually tooling them they get all flustered, thinking they were lecturing a willing student in good faith, and just leave you alone after that.

Nice one. I have a friend who did this all the time, whether the girl tested him or not, he would always ask these super sincere-seeming questions and we would all laugh cause we knew he was actually trolling the girl. Once she caught on, he totally owned the frame cause she just got trolled and didn't even notice and everyone was laughing at her. Built a nice status gap in his favor from the start.

 

[Teevster]

@Karea Ricardus D.,

What's your usual style of handling tests? Can you devise something that uses that?

@Teevster's is to out-judo them at their own game.

My default when people lecture me on dumb stuff is just to pretend I am dumb and have no idea what they are talking about. So like:

YOU: I'm looking for masculine colors.​

​

HER: There's no such thing. blah blah blah gender. You still haven't gotten that out of your head yet?​

​

YOU: Yeah, I guess it's still in there. So what would be the steps if I wanted to get it out of there?​

​

HER: Well, you could take some women's studies courses, for starters.​

​

YOU: That sounds pretty good. What part of women am I studying in these courses? Are they attractive women or do you have to study the unattractive ones too?​

Etc.

Once people figure out you were actually tooling them they get all flustered, thinking they were lecturing a willing student in good faith, and just leave you alone after that.

Chase

The term for that is... reductio ad absurdum. - typical rethorical tool used in philosophy

Best,
Teevster

 

[POB]

My default when people lecture me on dumb stuff is just to pretend I am dumb and have no idea what they are talking about. So like:

YOU: I'm looking for masculine colors.​

​

HER: There's no such thing. blah blah blah gender. You still haven't gotten that out of your head yet?​

​

YOU: Yeah, I guess it's still in there. So what would be the steps if I wanted to get it out of there?​

​

HER: Well, you could take some women's studies courses, for starters.​

​

YOU: That sounds pretty good. What part of women am I studying in these courses? Are they attractive women or do you have to study the unattractive ones too?​

This is definitely my style!

Another good one to use on feminists is Jim Carrey troll....you can look down and start to lecture your own dick, like he is the culprit:
"Yo man, you have to stop thinking like that, you hear me? I know you are huge and all, but please get your damn colors right and show some respect to the cute lady."
She is gonna laugh or feel embarassed/confused...either way you shrug it and move on:
"Sorry, sometimes I have to be energic or he wont learn."

Reasons:
- she is definitely not expecting silly as a comeback,
- it doesn't go directly against her shitty ideas but,
- at the same time it makes fun of them in a super subtle way, so she will probably never notice.

 

[MarkA]

Left-wing girl - "You still haven't gotten that out of your head yet?"

You - Calm down and put the kettle on

 

[Jeff]

@Karea Ricardus D.,

What's your usual style of handling tests? Can you devise something that uses that?

@Teevster's is to out-judo them at their own game.

My default when people lecture me on dumb stuff is just to pretend I am dumb and have no idea what they are talking about. So like:

YOU: I'm looking for masculine colors.​

​

HER: There's no such thing. blah blah blah gender. You still haven't gotten that out of your head yet?​

​

YOU: Yeah, I guess it's still in there. So what would be the steps if I wanted to get it out of there?​

​

HER: Well, you could take some women's studies courses, for starters.​

​

YOU: That sounds pretty good. What part of women am I studying in these courses? Are they attractive women or do you have to study the unattractive ones too?​

Etc.

Once people figure out you were actually tooling them they get all flustered, thinking they were lecturing a willing student in good faith, and just leave you alone after that.

Chase

Indeed.

Basically showing them how their frame isn't working for them.

I started using this technique a couple years ago when I was starting out.

Every once in a while I'd run into girls who'd question me for cold approaching girls and I'd respond like this -

Her: So, do you always go around talking to girls you don't know?

Me: Kinda. Yeah.

Her: That's really weird.

Me: Cool, how about this - I'll stalk you on social media or find you on Hinge and Tinder and send you creepy messages like "send bobs"

Does that turn you on?

(This is a reference to the Bob/vegana meme which is basically how Indians with shit English and social calibration ask to see nudes. Bobs=Boobs, Vegana=Vagina. So send bobs is basically "send pictures of your boobs)

Her: *Laughs* No please don't do that.

Me: So, coming up to you on street doesn't look all that bad now, does it?