FR From extreme interest to nothing, how?

[TrailBlazer]

I need to write this somewhere because it’s killing me inside…

This woman is my anxiety coach and we’ve been meeting weekly for about a year. You can read more about her here:

Thread 'The most difficult pick up ever'
https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/the-most-difficult-pick-up-ever.31384/

Tl;dr of this woman: for the past 2 months we’ve been touching more, there’s some tension between us now and she even recently told me she finds me really attractive and that she keeps thinking about me.

So on the most recent meeting I took her on a long walk, it seemed like I have more compliance now because she didn’t complain like she always does. Then we went to a bar.

There I eventually touched her on the neck and face, we’ve done this before but on each meeting I feel like I need to climb the ladder or touches again and again.

Now the interesting part:

The conversation was boring so I asked her what she would do if she could do anything. And she told me she would have sex with someone right now. I praised her for finally being more open. But I wasn’t in the right vibe to flirt more. I was nervous and paralyzed.

But I knew it may have been on, so I went to the restroom and changed my mindset to “let’s get it done” - but this might have been a mistake! Because now I was in chasing mode.

Anyway, to gain more compliance I told her to braid her hair, which she did. I rewarded her with a neck touch. And then we left the bar and I took her on a walk. We walked arm in arm - also something new.

On the walk I tried to switch to hand holding but she refused. This is where I think it went downhill. I wanted to kiss her but she was in a hurry to catch a bus home. I tried to hug her during the walk but she didn’t give me any space to escalate more.

I at least asked her out for a sooner date than the next meeting, but she refused.

So I really don’t get it, she told me she wanted sex but then didn’t give me any opportunity to make it happen?

Also she was talking about going on a trip with a few guys next week and if she actually does go, I’m afraid she will get what she wants there. This is destroying me because I’m right here!

I don’t know what’s going on here.

 

[S.S Can]

you missed a major window bro. she told you she wanted to have sex and you walked away. that's negative punishment, you're supposed to reward that behavior proportionally. not just praising her, but something of the same level so that her efforts feel justified.

anyway yeah she's gonna get her back blown out on the trip. probably a threesome. but you don't need to worry about that since you're cooked regardless.

 

[Atlas IV]

The conversation was boring so I asked her what she would do if she could do anything. And she told me she would have sex with someone right now. I praised her for finally being more open. But I wasn’t in the right vibe to flirt more. I was nervous and paralyzed.

Dude she literally told you she wants to fuck. This pussy was handed to you and you didn't take it.

You should read the article on escalation windows, don't miss this sort of thing again.

 

[Atlas IV]

Actually let me give you something a little more productive.

Here's what I would have done:

You: What would you do right now if you could do anything?
Her: I would have sex with someone
You: Hm, you're adventurous, I like that
You: Say, are you up for an adventure right now?
Hey: Like what?
You: Well my office is just around the corner. How about we sneak in there, and I'll show you some of the videos from my India travels I've been editing recently.
Her: Okay!

Then just lead her to your place. If she says anything (which she won't because she wants to have sex), just say "yeah I have a home office, I already told you that. Don't tell me you forgot "
Doesn't matter whether you told her or not, just act like she forgot.

Then escalate and boom.

Something like this almost certainly would have worked.

 

[Will_V]

So I really don’t get it, she told me she wanted sex but then didn’t give me any opportunity to make it happen?

Here we go again.

I'm starting to wonder if this whole thing is legit, it all sounds so improbably self defeating.

She literally told you she wants to have sex with someone, and I mean, she's there with you, so that probably gives you an advantage right?

If a girl wants to have sex with you:

a) make up ANY excuse to invite her home
b) pull her in, kiss her, and take her to bed

do NOT:

a) become her hairdresser
b) walk around with her arm in arm like you're her new boyfriend
c) try to hold her hand, even more like a boyfriend
d) when she doesn't want to hold hands, try to hug her - ???

If you just can't make yourself move, I dunno what to tell you. In life you just have to be willing to make moves and face the music, or never have what you want. It's a choice and it's that simple. But don't go around acting like you didn't know what was up.

 

[TrailBlazer]

you missed a major window bro. she told you she wanted to have sex and you walked away. that's negative punishment, you're supposed to reward that behavior proportionally. not just praising her, but something of the same level so that her efforts feel justified.

anyway yeah she's gonna get her back blown out on the trip. probably a threesome. but you don't need to worry about that since you're cooked regardless.

(replying late because of the new changes on the forum)

So I guess I deserve this lesson. But you think I should have told her “yeah I would like to have sex too” - to reward her proportionally? I felt like that would be needy!

Also what I don’t get is why she would literally pay to go on that trip (it’s clear she’d go there for sex) when I’m here and we both want it. She told me she finds me attractive and everything, I’m touching her so she knows it’s mutual. So where’s the goddamn problem? Why doesn’t she just take what she wants?

 

[TrailBlazer]

Dude she literally told you she wants to fuck. This pussy was handed to you and you didn't take it.

You should read the article on escalation windows, don't miss this sort of thing again.

But she still had that deniability no? She could have said “I didn’t mean have sex with you” if I somehow messed up the escalation. So she didn’t make it that easy for me did she, I still had to take a huge risk.

 

[TrailBlazer]

Here we go again.

I'm starting to wonder if this whole thing is legit, it all sounds so improbably self defeating.

Why so dramatic? I wonder what you’d say if you knew that I’ve had a lot of these mess ups during my ~5 years of learning
Don’t they say that great seducers simply failed a lot more than the average ones?

I’ve had girls stare at me for eternity hoping for me to kiss them, I’ve had many girls who wanted me to fuck them, but I’ve been frozen and couldn’t escalate. But that’s how you learn.

She literally told you she wants to have sex with someone, and I mean, she's there with you, so that probably gives you an advantage right?

Possibly, but she still had that deniability and so it was risky for me to escalate.

If a girl wants to have sex with you:

a) make up ANY excuse to invite her home
b) pull her in, kiss her, and take her to bed

do NOT:

a) become her hairdresser
b) walk around with her arm in arm like you're her new boyfriend
c) try to hold her hand, even more like a boyfriend
d) when she doesn't want to hold hands, try to hug her - ???

The do NOTs were the best things I could do at that moment. Hey at least I tried!

If you just can't make yourself move, I dunno what to tell you. In life you just have to be willing to make moves and face the music, or never have what you want. It's a choice and it's that simple. But don't go around acting like you didn't know what was up.

I definitely knew what was up (although it was and still is difficult for me to believe because she’s a high quality woman and has many way better guys around her). But I couldn’t escalate anyway, and let’s not act as if that’s not a major problem for many guys.

You really don’t have any advice for not being able to do the move? This is by far my biggest sticking point in game, it has always been. And yet there are very few resources or articles on this problem. I would appreciate any help.

 

[Atlas IV]

But she still had that deniability no? She could have said “I didn’t mean have sex with you” if I somehow messed up the escalation. So she didn’t make it that easy for me did she, I still had to take a huge risk.

What risk?

What do you expect women to do, drag you to the bedroom?

Grow some balls for fucks sake. Take her like she wants to be taken.

 

[barneystin]

But that’s how you learn.

No, you learn by taking action.

Possibly, but she still had that deniability and so it was risky for me to escalate.

She’s always going to have that deniability. That’s a big part of the game. You’re lucky she’s the one progressing the interaction. See https://www.girlschase.com/article/seeding-pull-plausible-deniability to get an idea of how this works

I definitely knew what was up (although it was and still is difficult for me to believe because she’s a high quality woman and has many way better guys around her). But I couldn’t escalate anyway, and let’s not act as if that’s not a major problem for many guys.

Not sure how you want anyone on here to help you, man. You know what to do but you’re just not doing it. That’s something you have to work through yourself

 

[TrailBlazer]

What risk?

What do you expect women to do, drag you to the bedroom?

Grow some balls for fucks sake. Take her like she wants to be taken.

The risk of not escalating confidently enough and making the whole thing awkward, forcing her to reject me.

I would love to grow some balls, but I really have no clue how. I’ve been in too many situations like this one.

And I know that sometimes, especially with social circle girls, it’s better to not do anything at all, rather than be unsure and make the whole thing feel terrible.

And I don't feel justified just taking things, like who do you think I am, some amazing guy who’s sure of himself? No, I really am not. But I’d like to feel that way because women clearly want me.

Is there something men like me can do to develop that action taker approach? More experience doesn’t help, I’ve had this happen with almost every girl I talk to.

 

[TrailBlazer]

No, you learn by taking action.

So like by escalating anyway and possibly messing it up? I’m already in so much pain from all the messed up chances, I can’t imagine the pain if I got even closer to the goal. But I guess you’re right. It’s just that I’ve been learning game for 5+ years, I shouldn’t have to deal with these things anymore.

She’s always going to have that deniability. That’s a big part of the game. You’re lucky she’s the one progressing the interaction. See https://www.girlschase.com/article/seeding-pull-plausible-deniability to get an idea of how this works

I know how this works. It still requires me to take the risk and escalate properly though, it’s not like I can just press a button and sex would happen. And since I wasn’t too sure, my actions wouldn’t look sure either. It’s not that easy when you’re not sure of anything.

Not sure how you want anyone on here to help you, man. You know what to do but you’re just not doing it. That’s something you have to work through yourself

But that’s also like the biggest problem of every person ever - not doing what they know they should be doing. Is there really no way to help me with this?

Let’s say I stand in front of a woman on a date and she looks at my lips. I could kiss her but I’m too anxious. And so the kiss itself wouldn’t be god either. What then?

 

[barneystin]

So like by escalating anyway and possibly messing it up?

Yes, you won’t die. i’ve tried to go in to kiss women and they just stared at me while i was super close to their face, not moving their lips an inch. Was it super awkward? Yes. But you laugh it off and try again later. I still laid some of those girls.

Sometimes going for the kiss isn’t even just about getting it, it’s also about communicating to her that you’re the type of guy who escalates and goes for what he wants. So if she refuses to kiss back, she still knows what kind of guy you are and if she’s still hanging out with you, she’s accepted that (it might be a bit more nuanced in your situation since it’s social circle)

Failure is how you learn. If you’re not willing to fail at all, then i’m sorry, you’ll be stuck where you are, possibly forever.

But that’s also like the biggest problem of every person ever - not doing what they know they should be doing. Is there really no way to help me with this?

I disagree. Not knowing what they should be doing is a more common problem in my experience

Let’s say I stand in front of a woman on a date and she looks at my lips. I could kiss her but I’m too anxious. And so the kiss itself wouldn’t be god either. What then?

Kiss her. If it’s a terrible kiss, that’s her problem. It wouldn’t be the first bad kiss she’s ever had. She’ll live

Be more selfish (i’m the most unselfish person i know so i can’t believe im saying this). Be a man and take what you want.

 

[S.S Can]

(replying late because of the new changes on the forum)

So I guess I deserve this lesson. But you think I should have told her “yeah I would like to have sex too” - to reward her proportionally? I felt like that would be needy!

Also what I don’t get is why she would literally pay to go on that trip (it’s clear she’d go there for sex) when I’m here and we both want it. She told me she finds me attractive and everything, I’m touching her so she knows it’s mutual. So where’s the goddamn problem? Why doesn’t she just take what she wants?

what you're supposed to be doing is ramping up interest mutually, it's a dance. she smiles at you, you walk up to her. you touch her hand, she leans into your touch. she tells you she wants to have sex.... you go to the bathroom?

the way that you guys are showcasing interest is different. you can think about it like you told her let's go have sex and she said ew no that's gross, because that's probably how she took it when you left. she DOESN'T know that it's mutual.

look at your last three lines, this is literally her thought process

I’m telling him i want to have sex so he knows it's mutual
So where’s the goddamn problem?
Why doesn’t he just take what he wants?

the only difference is that she is justified in thinking this way because YOU ARE THE MAN

 

[TrailBlazer]

what you're supposed to be doing is ramping up interest mutually, it's a dance. she smiles at you, you walk up to her. you touch her hand, she leans into your touch. she tells you she wants to have sex.... you go to the bathroom?

the way that you guys are showcasing interest is different. you can think about it like you told her let's go have sex and she said ew no that's gross, because that's probably how she took it when you left. she DOESN'T know that it's mutual.

An important fact is that I didn’t leave after she said she wanted to have sex. I tried to touch her hair as a reward, I took her on a walk from the bar on which I planned on kissing her (but I didn’t have the courage to stop with her and do it), I tried to take her hand, I hugged her at the end, and - most importantly - I tried to invite her to go out the next day, because I knew that I would be more “ballsy” that day.

And she refused the invitation, despite the fact that she told me she will be at home and do nothing.

So who rejected who? Why couldn’t she wait just another day, when it was clear I wasn’t sure of myself that day? She knows that I’m the man of action and can give her the exciting experiences, from what I tell her.

look at your last three lines, this is literally her thought process

I’m telling him i want to have sex so he knows it's mutual
So where’s the goddamn problem?
Why doesn’t he just take what he wants?

the only difference is that she is justified in thinking this way because YOU ARE THE MAN

I’m the man but I feel helpless and powerless. I’ll have to work on this. But it feels wrong for you to encourage me to take what I want. Do you know that 1) I was bullied and so I have no business being a cool guy who gets what he wants, and 2) I might become dangerous (in the sense that I’ll go after what I want and possibly make people angry/jealous/sad?).

 

[TrailBlazer]

the way that you guys are showcasing interest is different. you can think about it like you told her let's go have sex and she said ew no that's gross, because that's probably how she took it when you left. she DOESN'T know that it's mutual.

And she was in a rush the whole time on the walk, so it’s not like she was waiting for me to make something happen. If something were to happen, it would have to be in the bar after she said she wanted sex - and I wasn’t skilled or confident enough at that moment to pull it off, unfortunately. I’m not always in that superhuman smooth mode. When I don’t feel good or feel too much shame, even asking people the time makes them look freaked out and avoid me. This happens quite often to me!

 

[Skills]

You messed up the whole flow she cool off. and now probably lose attraction she is like "this guy does not get it, doesn't know what he is doing, and yes he ain't ss" .... You also don't k now how to carry a date, your date are not structure and all over the place... You are scare of messing things up and you become a fullfilling processing actually messing things up... Since you are not smooth with escalation, start pitching, framing and taking convos to massages.....

massages are low risk, relax the girl, relaxes you and gives you confidence, will help you turn her on and keep busy massaging so you are not on your head with all the mental masturbation.... start normal, for 10 minutes till she is relax, then a bit more sensual, then sexual...

but this girl is 95 percent done..... here is kaida:

Literally just hit 3 hoes on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday via going about my day on campus via daygame.

38 bodies so fat in 14 months (not counting the months I go back home for break, since I live w my parents up there)

I’ll probably start adding value to some beginner questions on the forum now. Y’all havent seen me help out much since I’m reluctant to give advice unless I deeply understand what I’m talking about, but I think I can start now.

My new recent massage escalation strategy is definitely part of the reason for my success though ngl. Might make a tactics and techniques post about that.

And I’ve been bullshitting on the LRs. Gotta finish those up

 

[TrailBlazer]

You messed up the whole flow she cool off. and now probably lose attraction she is like "this guy does not get it, doesn't know what he is doing, and yes he ain't ss" .... You also don't k now how to carry a date, your date are not structure and all over the place...

That’s because this girl is my anxiety coach, is a completely different type of game… she’s supposed to carry and planthe meetings, so I can’t go too hard with carrying them. Just the fact that we went to a bar instead of a neutral place is a success.

You are scare of messing things up and you become a fullfilling processing actually messing things up... Since you are not smooth with escalation, start pitching, framing and taking convos to massages.....

That’s true, I wish I wasn’t as scared of messing things up. I’m actually scared of sex too because that’s another world of possible mess ups, that’s probably also why I sabotage myself.

massages are low risk, relax the girl, relaxes you and gives you confidence, will help you turn her on and keep busy massaging so you are not on your head with all the mental masturbation.... start normal, for 10 minutes till she is relax, then a bit more sensual, then sexual...

I don’t know about you but massages stress the hell out of me. Just the thought of them. The idea of me being in control and calm… I’d be stressed af! I almost fainted when my last girl put her head on my shoulder, how can I do a massage?

I would definitely just laugh and say “oh man I don’t know what I’m doing haha” - how can that create any tension at all? I’m not in control of anything and I’m not some authority on massages to do it well, plus no one ever takes me seriously. Even my wingmen make fun of me. So massage would never work for me, you’d have to see how goofy I am to believe me.

Also this particular girl has had this massage > sex happen already, she told me. So it wouldn’t be anything new and she wouldn’t be impressed at all.

but this girl is 95 percent done.....

That’s what you guys always tell me but since we are still meeting, I hope I can just rekindle the attraction. We already had 2 failed escalation meetings before this one.

 

[Atlas IV]

So who rejected who? Why couldn’t she wait just another day, when it was clear I wasn’t sure of myself that day? She knows that I’m the man of action and can give her the exciting experiences, from what I tell her.

You should read the article on escalation windows, don't miss this sort of thing again.

You get spoon fed the answers and don't even bother to educate yourself.

Added to my ignore list.

 

[Skills]

alright! i knew you would be a waste of time... why do i even bother, have a nice life!

this is my last recommendation:

-go to walmart
- buy in bulk a lot of baby oil
- get a nice clean smooth towel
- get a free ad blockers
- get a good subscription to a porn site
- lock the door of your basemant
- fap with your right hand
- learn how to fap with the left....


have a nice life!