High Level Seducers: do you have a seduction specialty without which your success rate would plummet?

[Chase]

I just had a chat with @Teevster and he was mentioning that despite his stellar seduction track record, he considers himself a specialized seducer.

Basically, if he's 'lazy' and doesn't use his best seductive tools (sex talk & social proof) he declines from "insane seducer" to just a good overall PUA. Says there are other good PUAs who are probably better generalists than he is.

And I started to think about this, and thought... huh. Well it is kinda that way for every guy who is good, isn't it?

Think of any really talented seducer whose game you know well. Just a few examples off the top of my head:

• My old natural buddy from SoCal... if you took away his constant stream of extremely clever/naughty pop culture humor and threw out all the booze from his home bar he used as an excuse to pull chicks with, he would've become a much more average seducer.
  
  
• A very talented seducer I knew constantly created an air of himself being the judge of everyone and everything around him, while making small but escalating demands that people would feel pressured to comply with. I cannot imagine his game being nearly as effective without either of those aspects.
  
  
• @A2daMIR would tell you his physique plays a big role in helping him get girls... I would add his powerful control of the frame, in which he consistently frames the girl as wanting him, and him giving her some 'concessions' if she is good. Take those things away and he's running a different style of game.
  
  
• Grand Master (here, if you're unfamiliar with him) used tons of corny sex jokes plus the "just kidding!" get out jail free card to let him say whatever he liked without worrying about it being too much. Remove those and it's a totally different story.
  
  
• Swinggcat's game revolves around prizing himself with stories designed to frame himself in certain (sexy, desirable) lights to girls, plus some use of NLP. Take away his ability to tell stories and use NLP and he's a completely different seducer.

As for me, much of my game revolves around chase framing and deep diving. Take those away and much of the spice goes out of it, along with my ability to get women talking about whatever I want (deep diving) and my ability to inject prizing and sex into conversations at the same time (chase framing).

So, here's the question to all our especially skilled seducers:

Do you have 1 or 2 'signatures' that are more or less particular to your game that, were those signatures removed, would make you a much more ordinary, if still good, seducer? If so, what are they?

Examples:

• Not an obvious signature: "I guess logistics are my signature. I usually have good logistics."
  
  
• Obviously a signature: "I have famously good logistics. Wherever I go I have Logistics Plans A, B, C, and D, so I know exactly where to take girls, and I am VERY good at figuring out what those spots should be. If I can pull her from the venue, my logistics will seal it."

I'm mainly curious to see if it's the case that every high skilled seducer has a few different specialties that are his stock and trade, or if there are any true generalists out there whose game really does not rely on a few key pillars, and instead a broad and evenly distributed set of skills.

Chase

 

[POB]

Text game: I can close a date with pretty much any girl who's answering me by text, no matter her answer (can even turn emoji answers into dates).
Logistics: always have tight logistics, even before heading out I know exactly where I'll get her and what we will do in a rational sequence.
Getting intimate fast: in 15 minutes of live conversation I can make her feel she knows me for ages, this is just part of my persona. Not only with girls but pretty much with anyone.

 

[Skills]

Text game: I can close a date with pretty much any girl who's answering me by text, no matter her answer (can even turn emoji answers into dates).
Logistics: always have tight logistics, even before heading out I know exactly where I'll get her and what we will do in a rational sequence.
Getting intimate fast: in 15 minutes of live conversation I can make her feel she knows me for ages, this is just part of my persona. Not only with girls but pretty much with anyone.

Yea i think every seducer should have different weapons and be well rounded, but yea without texting no way to convert most girls you did not close on the first meet or online...

Physical escalation.- second

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Structure. I started off with natural game for the first 4 years of my cold approach career and got a lot more consistent when I added structure.

A couple years into structured game I dropped it all for a few months as a test, and went back to natural game, and my closing rate dropped by about 50%.

Show skills. I'm not using these at the moment, but I should and will again soon. I'm a performing artist and I noticed:

• when I mention it in A2
• when I have it in my grounding sequence
• when I show her in C3
• when she browses the website with my performances

...lay ratio shoots way up. Mystery says the same btw, he can sarge without magic, but it's his "big guns" and really accelerates his sarge.

Charisma. My dad was the #1 salesman in his industry and I like to think I inherited some of his charisma and gift of gab. I'm naturally very good at building comfort too, which is probably related.

Sexual Framing. 'nough said...

 

[DoWhatWorks]

Do you have 1 or 2 'signatures' that are more or less particular to your game that, were those signatures removed, would make you a much more ordinary, if still good, seducer?

1. People feel "comfortable" around me. As young as 6/7 I'd be having in-depth conversations with "the shy kid" who everyone else thought couldn't speak. Today it translates to me saying Hi to a group of girls & very often the mother hen, pushes me to her single friend.

2. I know what looks good. My fashion isn't "on-trend" more classic but ever since I could buy my own clothes, I often get compliments. Definitely got it from my dad, my man has like 30 suits ahah

The above got me most my lays from cute,normal girl next door types otherwise I'd be pretty fk'd lol

3. BONUS - I'm willing to suck and learn until I'm "good enough" at something. Noticed even a lot of the top guys don't have this trait. They get good at something that works and they stubbornly ignore the rest. E.g. A cold approach pro who swears that online is useless & vice versa.

I get great results because I'm "good enough" at multiple things: texting, nightgame,online & occasional daygame. If I was relying on just one avenue I'd have average/bad results lol.

 

[Warped Mindless]

I don’t do as well in very loud dance clubs because I use verbals heavily in my seductions.

I think every good seducer I’ve ever met just had good fundamentals and then found a way to play to their strengths.

 

[Chase]

All right, so so far it sounds like the answer is yes:

@POB relies on

1. Superior text game (if she answers his texts, she'll come onto a date)
2. Ironclad logistics that make date flows easy
3. Rapid conversational intimacy within about 15 minutes

@Skills relies on

1. Superior text game
2. Physical escalation skills

(nothing verbal there though, Skills? I thought I remembered seeing a day game video from you and you had some pretty clever verbals. So what's your thing, just close with them rapidly after the approach and start getting physical escalation, then use the text game to get them back out in-person where you can start physically escalating again?)

@Karea Ricardus D. relies on

1. A structured process / stack
2. Displays of artistic prowess
3. Rapid comfort-building / charisma
4. Sexual framing

@DoWhatWorks relies on

1. Rapid comfort-building
2. Exceptional fashion

Although DWW also cross-games and attributes a lot of that to success... so DWW you're sort of bucking the 'specialty' trend here: rather than having a few superior specialties, you're saying you're a jack of all trades.

I guess the question there would be: if you woke up tomorrow and weren't allowed to use your comfort tech/vibes plus had to dress like just an average semi-stylish dude, would your results drop a lot or it wouldn't make a huge difference?

And @Warped Mindless relies heavily on verbals, without which he's at a disadvantage.

Pretty interesting how common "comfort-building" is as a trend here:

• I use deep diving as my rapid comfort tech
• @Teevster's social proof is a way of making girls rapidly comfortable too ("Oh lots of people like him, he's safe")
• @POB has his way of establishing comfort rapidly in 15 minutes
• @Karea Ricardus D. has his way of establishing comfort rapidly
• @DoWhatWorks has his way of establishing comfort rapidly

Then the other one that pops up a lot is arousal tech:

• For me it's chase framing
• @Skills is using physical escalation for that
• @Karea Ricardus D. is using artistic prowess displays + sexual framing for it
• Both of @Teevster's techs (sex talk + social proof) are arguably arousal tech, social proof serving double duty here (comfort + arousal)

Actually if I break down everything with my SAC model (similarity-arousal-compliance) basically every specialty tech is one of these... comfort-building, generally by doing stuff that makes girls feel like you and they are similar... arousal, by stimulating her and exciting her... or compliance by getting her following your lead.

Might be kind of interesting to look at whose game is more balanced (e.g., similarity + arousal focused, which seems to be the case for most of the guys responding here, who have some comfort + some arousal in their specialties) versus whose is even more specialized... guys where their specialties lean toward arousal, or even mostly compliance (my judging/demanding buddy -- he's just judging everything, and gets people agreeing/complying with his judgments, then asks for an escalating series of favors, and again, he's just stacking compliance).

Fun stuff here, fellas. Lots to chew on. Thanks for all the replies.

Chase

 

[Skills]

@Chase i know how to do most of the different things guys do (i am sure most of you can as well), i am very good at verbal's too due to my sales background and of course thanks to adapting some teevester stuff to me ... I thought it was which one are the traits that without them your results would drop? for me texting and physical escalation(i am mainly in loud clubs).... For example pob is good also at verbals, so is dww etc... teevester is good at physical escalation(mutual escalation stuff) he just don't care much to use it but he knows how to do it, but that was not the question of the op... I think being well rounded is a must like again i can do most things mentioned in the post... Though i am not big into deep diving i know that is your thing, but i can do that as well, the reason i don't do deep dive is cause i use humor instead.(cocky funny, playing stupid, indirect form of grandmaster vs direct gm)

 

[Chase]

@Skills,

Got it.

So yeah, solid all around, great verbals... but the lynch pin traits for you are texting & physical escalation.

Sounds like yours is another arousal-leaning style (physical escalation, humor, etc. -- arousal-generating tech. From what I've seen of your texting it's a mix of comfort + arousal).

Pump them up with excellent physical escalation, then if no SNL take their number and work them well over text, get them out in person again, more skillful physical escalation, this time into bed. Sound like an accurate 30,000 foot overview?

Chase

 

[Warped Mindless]

Back in 2007 after have already been doing this for a year I was out winging with another decent dude and he suggested that we purposefully spend some time only picking up girls in ways we weren’t used to and/or using tech and strategies that we didn’t normally use. We spent six months doing that and working of various aspects we were weak in. I credit that approach to helping me really hone in the fundamentals so well.

Something some people may find value in.

 

[Skills]

Pump them up with excellent physical escalation, then if no SNL take their number and work them well over text, get them out in person again, more skillful physical escalation, this time into bed. Sound like an accurate 30,000 foot overview?

Chase

yea non dance floor game.- i open (usually situationally), sometimes direct (if short time to work them on way to work for example), i do a bit of humor, no clownish more like cocky funny/chase framing/indirect gm mix with normal banter, then microescalate, then drop humor and get serious more physical if she needs more work (yellowish or not ready to go) i do teevester indirect sex talk, sexual framing second gen(only if needed sometimes no needed, specially lately for some reason, if a girl is ready to fuck and open the legs there is no need for me to go hold on wait a few minutes and then go into good sex/bad sex/8 orgasm/society unfairness when it comes to sex etc...)

dance floor is mainly none verbal.- open no touching-micro escalate-escalate-isolate-if a bit resistance (again lately i have not needed to, the teevester stuff i mentioned above)- then close- if i feel not there, i cont. via texting...yeah comfort/humor/teases-trolling/arousal(indirect gm and teevester stuff mixed)

online/apps game.- 3 bounce- first bounce poker boring neutral interaction - second bounce humor/indirect grandmaster/micro escalations- 3red bounce teevester sexual prizing/second gen..... sometimes if the lay not there due to stupid pre set rules or some logistical stuff (period/schedule stuff)....... I follow up and do the same 3 bounce in second location or same location different venues (never not lay a girl after 2 encounters like this)...

But chase i do think most guys in here, have their things they rely on, but i can put any amount of money, they can do other things well AFTER they go for the initial trial and error period.... For example when my dance floor game was taking away 5 years ago (when clubs disappeared and went to shit, corona sanction levels), i had very minimal problem doing teevester stuff on the contrary my results totally sky rocket to burn out levels.... Problem is a lot of us got big egos or the constant posturing, for me to do teevester/second gen stuff i totally fought those dudes for years(part of how nextasf went down tbh)....(in part due to my ego, in part due to constant posturing that turned me off) anyways food for thought....

So my point to the op Is the results would plummet TEMPORARELY, once they do some other stuff biz as usual, if they put ego aside and field test enough....

I believe things are constantly changing or need twicking,,, things that are working one day (they kind of stop working or don't work as well and some other stuff works better)... No only pick up with everything... And i believe most guys here are pretty good and can pretty much do anything and get it fast... As i mentioned here for example is seen a bit more of physical game in usa making a bit of a comeback as of late...(no coincidence we are having more lays this year than last couple of years in the forum)

 

[Chase]

But chase i do think most guys in here, have their things they rely on, but i can put any amount of money, they can do other things well AFTER they go for the initial trial and error period.... For example when my dance floor game was taking away 5 years ago (when clubs disappeared and went to shit, corona sanction levels), i had very minimal problem doing teevester stuff on the contrary my results totally sky rocket to burn out levels.... Problem is a lot of us got big egos or the constant posturing, for me to do teevester/second gen stuff i totally fought those dudes for years(part of how nextasf went down tbh)....(in part due to my ego, in part due to constant posturing that turned me off) anyways food for thought....

So my point to the op Is the results would plummet TEMPORARELY, once they do some other stuff biz as usual, if they put ego aside and field test enough....

I believe things are constantly changing or need twicking,,, things that are working one day (they kind of stop working or don't work as well and some other stuff works better)... No only pick up with everything... And i believe most guys here are pretty good and can pretty much do anything and get it fast... As i mentioned here for example is seen a bit more of physical game in usa making a bit of a comeback as of late...(no coincidence we are having more lays this year than last couple of years in the forum)

Yeah, I agree with that too.

Guys who are good tend to pick new stuff up very fast.

There is a general experience & calibration effect where once you understand girls and you understand the game, switching strategies comes with a very short learning curve.

Curious then why guys mostly all seem to specialize. I wonder if it's because guys are lazy/in a routine/just habit (i.e., you can't do EVERYTHING)... OR if it's because their specialties are tailored to bring them the kinds of girls they want in the environments they're picking up in. My hunch is it's more the latter... if it stops working, or they change environments and find their process isn't working there, they switch things up and experiment until they start getting the kinds of girls and hookups they want again. Adaptation.

Chase