- Joined
- Oct 9, 2012
- Messages
- 6,235
This is a question we see from time-to-time from new members.
Sometimes it is asked earnestly. Sometimes it comes out as cognitive dissonance, where a new member argues members who have greater seniority than he has are lying, exaggerating, or charlatans.
The new member may be:
He may:
I'm aware that we attract some segment of socially awkward men here. Any place that teaches social skills is going to have some proportion of the folks who look for and find it be people with low emotional intelligence, impaired theories of mind / mind blindness, or stunted social development. So you may not know the rules of behavior on a forum or may not realize you are making faux pas or stepping out of line.
Let's list a few general rules of forum etiquette you will be expected to follow as a new member on the Boards:
You must follow these rules to participate here.
Particularly as a new member, if you are attacking senior members, claiming they are lying or exaggerating, or demanding they give you evidence, what you are really doing is attacking the entire trust-based system of the forum.
You are attacking the forum itself, saying that:
If someone's mind is already set that this forum is an untrustworthy place full of undeservingly upgraded members and replete with fictions and exaggerations, this individual will not be able to do anything here but argue with other members in an effort to assuage his own cognitive dissonance.
Such an individual will not 1.) assume trust, 2.) accept and implement advice, 3.) share findings and provide value, or 4.) critique in polite ways and in good faith.
We ban people that persist in this. Usually such people assume that is because "they were right and we simply couldn't win the argument." But the actual reason is because these are low-level arguments, we have each had them a million times, there is often no way to change the mind of someone whose mind is made up, and it's extremely distracting and bothersome to have to discussions on Level 10 disrupted by people who are down at Level 0 telling you you need to climb down and defend the foundation of the entire forum for the millionth time.
So:
How do you know the members on the forum aren't making everything up?
You just have to trust us.
If you don't trust us, then you will have to go find a forum with people you do trust, because you simply cannot learn from someone you cannot trust at least a bit.
Chase
Sometimes it is asked earnestly. Sometimes it comes out as cognitive dissonance, where a new member argues members who have greater seniority than he has are lying, exaggerating, or charlatans.
The new member may be:
- Genuinely inexperienced with women and have trouble wrapping his mind around things he is reading
- Experienced with a certain kind of woman or a certain approach and struggling/unable to believe other things work
- Someone with a calcified view of things based on media consumption (e.g., red pill videos) rather than actual romantic experience
He may:
- Ask simple questions, just trying to understand better (this is asking in good faith)
- Post about the difficulties he is having and express doubts it can work for him (this is normal)
- Argue directly with much more senior members from a position of thinking he already knows (this is tone deaf)
- Accuse senior members of things like lying, distortion, exaggeration, charlatanry, etc. (this is bad faith)
- Demand senior members provide evidence of things they say that is to his specification and satisfaction (this is either tone deaf or in bad faith)
I'm aware that we attract some segment of socially awkward men here. Any place that teaches social skills is going to have some proportion of the folks who look for and find it be people with low emotional intelligence, impaired theories of mind / mind blindness, or stunted social development. So you may not know the rules of behavior on a forum or may not realize you are making faux pas or stepping out of line.
Let's list a few general rules of forum etiquette you will be expected to follow as a new member on the Boards:
- Assumption of trust: we promote members to higher ranks based on the level of expertise/mastery of the social arts and, in particular, seduction. Member ranks are reliable indicators of their level of skill. We are very choosy about whom we promote, particularly to the final ranks (Modern Human and Tribal Elder). Without trust, no group or society can function; while here, you are expected to trust that senior members for the most part know what they are talking about.
- Accepting and implementing advice: unless you are already experienced seducing women, the expectation is you are here to share your progress, seek advice/input, then go out and implement the advice you get.
- Sharing findings and providing value: as you gain experience, or if you are a new member who is already romantically experienced, you can share your findings and provide value to other members. This is appreciated and valued; it is what forums are built on! However, before you begin posting your "Ultimate Guide to XYZ" or giving other members tough love replies to their threads, you are encouraged to spend some time familiarizing yourself with the culture on the Boards, the nature of the discussion here, and some of the members present. Once you're ready to start posting, this ensures you won't be doing so in a tone deaf way.
- Critique is fine, but it must be polite and assume good intentions. "I haven't been able to make this technique work. How do the guys who are doing this pull it off?" is fine. "This technique doesn't work. Anyone who says it does must be super good-looking, high status, or lying," is not fine. What's the difference? One is an open-ended question inviting those who are actually successful making it work to come share their advice on how you can get it working. The other is something said out of frustration, makes a bunch of sweeping assumptions, and is childish. This is a forum for men; it is not one for childish tantrums and sweeping generalizations.
You must follow these rules to participate here.
Particularly as a new member, if you are attacking senior members, claiming they are lying or exaggerating, or demanding they give you evidence, what you are really doing is attacking the entire trust-based system of the forum.
You are attacking the forum itself, saying that:
- You do not believe us that we upgraded actually skilled members to the highest ranks
- You do not believe the premise of what this forum is about, that any of what we are doing is possible
- You do not believe the things people are saying is true, and that instead some other system is more reliable
If someone's mind is already set that this forum is an untrustworthy place full of undeservingly upgraded members and replete with fictions and exaggerations, this individual will not be able to do anything here but argue with other members in an effort to assuage his own cognitive dissonance.
Such an individual will not 1.) assume trust, 2.) accept and implement advice, 3.) share findings and provide value, or 4.) critique in polite ways and in good faith.
We ban people that persist in this. Usually such people assume that is because "they were right and we simply couldn't win the argument." But the actual reason is because these are low-level arguments, we have each had them a million times, there is often no way to change the mind of someone whose mind is made up, and it's extremely distracting and bothersome to have to discussions on Level 10 disrupted by people who are down at Level 0 telling you you need to climb down and defend the foundation of the entire forum for the millionth time.
So:
How do you know the members on the forum aren't making everything up?
You just have to trust us.
If you don't trust us, then you will have to go find a forum with people you do trust, because you simply cannot learn from someone you cannot trust at least a bit.
Chase
