Socializing How do you destroy the leader of a social circle?

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Mystery has a workaround for that... he befriends guys who have money and says "you bring the food and beverages, I bring the girls".

 

[Teevster]

If I wasn’t envious I would never want to take his role of the leader. Would I even be a man if I didn’t have the natural urge to lead and dominate? No, I would feel terrible. Of course I want to lead.

My vibes can be great and I’ve lead a few circles before, but I’m still learning. And I won’t learn by just accepting my position. In the old school PUA you have all sorts of “AMOG destroyers” etc. So I just want to test that.

Ok, we are making progress here - you are at least honest and self-aware.

Now some questions: what do you ultimately want? Destroy the poor guy, or reach the same level as him (or higher)?

Reflect before answering.

-Teevster

 

[504]

The leader gets the most attention from girls, so of course I want to take that role.

keep your enemies close

that only increased his charisma, so that wasn’t a good idea.

that pissed me off as well.

any tricks I can use to destabilise him and become the main guy?

I don’t care about him.

not here to become a better or abundant person, I just want to destroy this leader and become the main guy of the group

It’s absolutely demasculinising to be below him

It’s our natural instinct to take over and dominate.

I ask him about the girl frequently, she’s not in the circle. Will asking that somehow destabilise him in the long term?

I’m looking for techniques to take over.

One needs to strike hard. Men fight over roles in the hierarchy all the time, it’s natural.

Well he took over my circle, so he is the one who will face the consequences. I don’t want to harm people,

What's up TrailBlazer!

Quick question: have you at any point in time been diagnosed with ASPD, MACH, ASD or NPD?

 

[TrailBlazer]

What's up TrailBlazer!

Quick question: have you at any point in time been diagnosed with ASPD, MACH, ASD or NPD?

This made me laugh but it shouldn’t have!

And yes, unfortunately, I do have these PDs. And unfortunately I view it as an advantage, as we do…

But look at it this way, 2 truths no matter my disorders:

- being the leader of a group has many benefits and is attractive

- for this reason, men compete for their spot in the hierarchy.

I just don’t sugarcoat things. Also I exaggerate things, I’m a good guy but underneath I do tend to “feel” the hierarchy maybe more than others. Anyway I still want to lead and I want to get better at it! It’s a good skill to have, I guess I just need to learn to view socialising as a cooperation, not a competition? A challenge for me because in the past many people hurt me!

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

And yes, unfortunately, I do have these PDs. And unfortunately I view it as an advantage, as we do…

Psychopaths often tend to think that being ruthless is an advantage because they see most nice people as victims. That's a fundamental mistake in thinking.

As I said earlier, there aren't just predators and prey. There are also peaceful creatures that do have claws and teeth and will them bring out when it's necessary to destroy a predator.

Personally I would never hurt an animal. Unless it's a mosquito or any other creature trying to suck my blood. I kill those fucking sons of bitches without a split second of hesitation or remorse.

Also - how could it be an advantage, if you say "unfortunately" in the same breath? That tells me you intuitively know that it's not an advantage. Your social life isn't working at all - that proves it.

If you think "I just have to get better at faking that I'm not PD", you're headed in the wrong direction. The mask always slips at some point. People always find out who you really are eventually. And human societies run on reputation.

Better figure out how to heal those mental conditions. I've mentioned Ayahuasca on another thread, I'd recommend that to you. Figure out where that darkness in your soul is coming from and heal it.

I just need to learn to view socialising as a cooperation, not a competition? A challenge for me because in the past many people hurt me!

Sad to hear that. I would highly recommend not to perpetuate the victim-abuse cycle by passing that forward. Instead, be a bit more cautious with trusting people and gradually learn to calibrate whom to let in your life...

I hope you find your way out of this darkness. I mean that.

 

[Ratata]

The leader gets the most attention from girls, so of course I want to take that role.

For example right now I have a group of friends where one guy organises everything and everyone likes him for it. And he enjoys the fruits of his labor.

I’ve tried to befriend him (“keep your enemies close”), but we both don’t really want to open up emotionally around each other, so it’s not really working.

I also taught him daygame, but that only increased his charisma, so that wasn’t a good idea. He also found himself a girlfriend on his like fifth approach, while I’ve been doing this for years and still nothing, so that pissed me off as well.

Are there any tricks I can use to destabilise him and become the main guy? It can even be “dark” psychology, I don’t care about him.

Unlike the others in here, I'll give you the exact solution to destroy him.
Step one: Find a hot girl that he likes. Move hot girl to his proximity. Make sure they are into each other. Pick up scraps while he's busy with hot girl.
See, now he's destroyed! You're welcome!

Jeez. Sorry for being a bit trolly. This is tongue in cheek. You simply don't want to have that attitude, or vibe. It's so negative. You'll come of off as a dork, and the girls will notice that you view him as an enemy or as a threat. And they will think you are a loser for it.

Instead, team up with him. Be friendly. Add to the fun with him. K, so if he's more attractive, cooler than you, etc, he might get some girl that you want, but not all the time. And there's a morsel of truth in what I taunted you with: If he is preoccupied with some other girl, he won't have time for the girl you're trying to game.

So be friendly. Be nice. you can be mean to guys who butt in and are mean to you, but never become that social pariah who manages to make an enemy out of the coolest guy in the room.

 

[Levo]

I just need to learn to view socialising as a cooperation, not a competition? A challenge for me because in the past many people hurt me!

My brother in christ, why do you think humans evolved as social animals? Because there is strength in numbers.

Why do you think that the #1 indicator of success in life is your zip code and what university you attended? Its because it grants you the ability to socialize and build a social circle with other high value individuals.

When high value people recognize other high value people they don't think 'how can I neutralize this threat' they think 'how can I befriend this person and create win-win situations for us'.

I told you before to befriend this guy and learn from him. I say that even more strongly now.

 

[TrailBlazer]

So be friendly. Be nice. you can be mean to guys who butt in and are mean to you, but never become that social pariah who manages to make an enemy out of the coolest guy in the room.

He is mean to me though. He doesn’t hesitate to make fun of me in front of others. And he gives me nicknames I don’t like. Everything is quite subtle but it’s clear that he doesn’t play fair. So what then?

 

[TrailBlazer]

My brother in christ, why do you think humans evolved as social animals? Because there is strength in numbers.

Why do you think that the #1 indicator of success in life is your zip code and what university you attended? Its because it grants you the ability to socialize and build a social circle with other high value individuals.

When high value people recognize other high value people they don't think 'how can I neutralize this threat' they think 'how can I befriend this person and create win-win situations for us'.

I told you before to befriend this guy and learn from him. I say that even more strongly now.

I hang out with him like twice a week, I’d say we are friends. But I don’t like him. He keeps making fun of me in front of others, he gives me nicknames, gives me unsolicited advice that makes me look dumb… so what’s the correct action path here?

 

[Ratata]

He is mean to me though. He doesn’t hesitate to make fun of me in front of others. And he gives me nicknames I don’t like. Everything is quite subtle but it’s clear that he doesn’t play fair. So what then?

I hang out with him like twice a week, I’d say we are friends. But I don’t like him. He keeps making fun of me in front of others, he gives me nicknames, gives me unsolicited advice that makes me look dumb… so what’s the correct action path here?

Hm, that's a good point...

IMHO you've got a few hard choices to make. Essentially, you're fighting an up-hill battle here, because he holds all the social power. So, forget about "winning" over him for now. If you try, you'll most likely just end up committing social suicide.

As I see it, you've really only got one good choice here, and that is to cut him out of your life. Find better people. Start hosting your own things.

However, if you do keep bumping into him, then you have to learn to stand up for yourself. Yes, you can play the comeback game, and try to stay unaffected, but that's a very painful way to exist. Moreover, if you do make the right comeback, now he'll hurt so bad that he'll want to escalate with you cuz you made him look like an idiot. And that's not good either. I've been in that situation, and that almost got me stabbed to death. So that's not a great option either.

I can give you my personal approach, but before I do, please understand that it has a ton of important caveats. So what would I do? Well, personally, I'd give him a fun warning. If he made a funny nickname for me, I'd smile enthusiastically and ask, "Do you wanna go to the hospital? No? Well, use my real name then." It's a clear threat, but delivered with a big grin. He can now choose to dance or stay cool.

Fair warning, you can only use things like that if you're built a certain way, and you know how to fight. Or if you are very sure of how respected you are in the room (i.e. you've got a flawless read on both him and the room). If you do, this shows him that you've got exactly zero fear of him, which will make most guys think twice. So, if you're not in my position, then most likely he'll just laugh and double down, and then what are you gonna do?

OTOH you don't necessarily need physical stature to command respect in a room or a society. It could be enough to simply be well liked by all, and enjoy the backing of the masses. That is also a way to stay safe. Then you can also use that to your advantage, because you know you are backed by the crowd. But as it is - and this is probably gonna sting - from what I read you don't sound like a guy who's got that down.

Never the less, here's a quite recent example, again with tons of caveats.

I was recently in a situation where some bigger guy made some silly remarks about me. I laughed it off like a chump, because I knew that I could just keep him at an arms length for the rest of the night by staying at the other side of the room, or in other rooms than him.

But then he suddenly shoved me hard across the room... This immediately ticked me off, so I ran back, and put my eyes straight into his face real close, in front of all the others. While staring him down, nose to nose, I told him sternly and slowly to "Never... do ... that ... again!"

After a tense moment, he actually backed down, realizing what a fool he'd been. In other words, I had read the room correctly, and I knew that my action would sideline him completely. He was suddenly faced with a guy that showed him zero fear, and who told him clearly where the line was drawn. So, once things calmed down, I went over to my place and continued conversations.

But afterwards he approached me again, but respectfully, and apologized earnestly while saying that he was just kidding around and that he didn't mean anything bad by it. Moreover, the rest of the room had seen that while I can laugh things off, I've got my limits. Which garners respect, especially when you have the moral upside. Also, regardless of morality, even big guys don't want to end up in a fight, especially with one who seems to know what he's doing. But depending on what social community you're in, you don't know that beforehand. Could be you're dealing with a psycho, and a drunk one at that, and then things won't go as well as it did for me. So bare that in mind next time you want to run into someone's face.

After that event several girls also approached me and told me that the guy acted like an asshole. While that made me happy, I told them that no worries, we had a talk and all was good, which put me as the better man. In other words, even though I got ticked off, I came out on top. But I'm fairly sure that it's only because I have a certain physical stature, and because I have the respect of others in the room. If you don't have either of those, prepare for your actions to fail. I can't really help you with how to know this. You just know. And if you're in a weaker position, it's always better to leave.

So, what's the verdict from this? Does this mean that you can now "set yourself in respect"? No, sorry. That's not how the world works. I know you seem frustrated by this guy, but honestly, from what I read, he has all the cards, and you have none. Then the best course of action is to remove yourself from him.

Though if you do have that social stature I talked about, and you have the physique to boot, only then can you do what I did above. And there's still a risk that you misread the room, and how drunk he is, or how strong he is, and then it's you going ot the hospital (or certainly you risk a severely bruised ego), and you've burnt that social bridge on top of things. So again, I still stand by that the best course of action here is to cut him out of your life. Then try to get as much of the rest of his social circle, and start running your own events.

So bottom line is, I can't really teach this. Instead I can only try to describe how some of the social mechanisms works for these kinds of things. And if you're in the wrong place, at the wrong time, and don't have the read on the room, that action can easily land you in the hospital. At least when on his turf. When in the club, you just go to another room, or fend him off by blocking him out. You generally want to use as little energy as possible on obstacles like that in the club, and in the club you can cuz it's not a personal. But that seems very different from your situation right now.

Take care man! And go meet better people!

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

I'm starting to suspect that you just started "putting on the mask" as PD people tend to do when they're found out... so that you will get better advice.

Now he's the bad guy? He's mean to you? Why didn't you mention that earlier? It was just "I want to be the leader how do I destroy this guy. He's my friend but I don't care about him. I don't mind playing dirty."

None of this adds up. First you said you're the one who built this social circle, so that means you invited him into it. Why would you do that if you know he constantly AMOGs you and lowers your value in front of other people?

Why would you hang out twice a week with someone you don't like? Why would you consider such a person a friend? Honestly this thread is a big hole of darkness from start to finish and this will be my last post here.

I'll reiterate what I said in my first post on the thread... you may want to take a long look in the mirror and ask yourself some serious questions about how you're going through life.

 

[Levo]

I'm starting to suspect that you just started "putting on the mask" as PD people tend to do when they're found out... so that you will get better advice.

Now he's the bad guy? He's mean to you? Why didn't you mention that earlier? It was just "I want to be the leader how do I destroy this guy. He's my friend but I don't care about him. I don't mind playing dirty."

None of this adds up. First you said you're the one who built this social circle, so that means you invited him into it. Why would you do that if you know he constantly AMOGs you and lowers your value in front of other people?

Why would you hang out twice a week with someone you don't like? Why would you consider such a person a friend? Honestly this thread is a big hole of darkness from start to finish and this will be my last post here.

I'll reiterate what I said in my first post on the thread... you may want to take a long look in the mirror and ask yourself some serious questions about how you're going through life.

Ive noticed this too. 100% he is tailoring what he writes to try and elicit the type of advice he thinks he wants vs what people are actually telling him.

I've seen it before, when they don't get the answers they want, they dont take any of them seriously because in their head they know that what they wrote isn't what their real situation is, so therefore the advice is irrelevant. They then focus more on re-framing their argument to get the advice they were after in the first place instead of reflecting on what people said to them.

Look at his other posts too, theyre wildly incongruent with one another when taken as a whole and are always geared toward some specific outcome.

I think hes making the classic mistake of thinking learning pickup is like some collection of magic spells or special video game moves that you can whip out to win certain situations.

 

[MrVariety]

He’s too far steeped in darkness to the point it’s not even worth spending time trying to help him. Some guys are beyond rescue. Better to save energy for those who want to be helped.

Mr Variety

 

[Chase]

@TrailBlazer,

You know what they say, fight fire with fire.

If this guy took the group from you by providing more value to everyone else, you know what you need to do:

Provide double the value, or 10x the value, he is providing.

The group will be yours, and if you still want to at that point, give him the boot.

Otherwise, if you are not able to -- well, you are not going to win from the bottom punching up when the group is on his side.

People are not stupid. They know where the value is coming from. If it is you, they will follow you. If it is him, they will follow him. You are not going to trick them into thinking that the value is coming from you when the value is coming from him (unless you are dealing with a group of complete drooling idiots, and you are a dark arts genius).

Sometimes when your social skills aren't up to snuff yet, you are just going to get lapped. If the opponent is sufficiently far ahead of you social skills-wise, there is not going to be anything you can do to effectively fight back.

When that happens, the best thing to do is to step back, take the L, learn from it, drop EVERYONE involved in the "lapping" for the sake of your own ego (otherwise, you will be stuck constantly being reminded what you had then lost... it is like hanging out with your ex), and go rebuild again with a different circle, keeping in mind the next time not to repeat the mistakes of the earlier time.

Chase

 

[Just a Man]

And yes, unfortunately, I do have these PDs. And unfortunately I view it as an advantage, as we do…

It's well documented that the PDs in question are best addressed through sustained professional therapy, which sadly very few people with those PDs ever seek - or keep up if they do seek it. Your comment suggests an unusual level of self-awareness, if you really do have any of those issues, in which case you have a head start.

 

[Bill]

you don’t need to, just use the social circle as a source for leeds to pull into a new social circle