How to “get” a loyal, traditional girl – Don't be a seducer, don't be a fuck boy!

[Mali]

This is for guys who are looking for Long Term Relationship, and not just quick lays. I've noticed many discrepancies on this forum. There is a lot great advice on this site but there is also a lot of WRONG advice especially from top advisors here. I'm not saying that Top Dogs here are wrong, not at all! Top Dogs here just have totally different agenda than most guys are looking for, they want to bang as many women as they can while most guys are looking for LTR with one woman. So this is for guys who are looking for one special girl, let me try to summarize:


First, try to understand what is the background of a girl that you want for LTR, who she is, and what is she looking for.

- Her Background:
For LTR, you want to look for a girl from stable, if possible traditional family where her parents live together for years. They don't fight, and she has a good relationship with her parents and siblings. This is very important if you are looking for stable relationship. A girl like this grew up in certain environment and it is very likely she is looking for the same. I'm not saying that other girls are bad or they are not good for LTR, that wouldn't be fair. Lets be honest though, likelihood that you find a good girl with LTR mindset that came from broken family, where her parents were constantly fighting, are divorced or were never married, is quite low. So screen for girls from good and stable families, you'll save yourself lots of headaches.

- Who she is:
What does she do? Does she have college degree? Is she independent? Does she make enough money? Is she dating or sleeping with many guys? What is her age? Is she motivated? Independent? There are many questions to ask, the more answers you can collect the more you can understand who she is, and thus you'll be able to understand better what is she looking for.

- What is she looking for?
So she is looking for stable LTR with great partner. Well, of course, but think about it:
* Know that IF she is looking for serious LTR, a guy who she can have relationship with, she is not looking for seducer, fuck boy, mysterious traveler. She doesn't want to be in relationship with a guy who can leave her anytime he wants or who bangs bunch of women behind her back. She doesn't want these guys especially if she has high self esteem. She is looking for loyal guy who she can fully trust.
* If she has a college degree, is ambitious, motivated, takes a great care of her health, it is likely that she will be looking for somebody who AT LEAST matches her education, ambition, motivation, salary... In reality she will be looking for somebody who has higher status that she has, who has higher education, who makes more money etc. She is still looking for dominant and confident guy, but understand that girl like this with high self-esteem will not be looking for top guy in a bar. Women are not stupid, they know who can they find in the bars, and they also know who can they find in top positions. Women knows that bars are usually full of fuck boys, and if that's not what she's looking for she won't go there. So depending on what you are looking for, screen for girls with education, good jobs, good motivation. Which also means that you have to be AT LEAST the same.
* How old is she? Women at different age groups have different goals and desires. They are looking for different things in their lives. A girl in her 20s might be working on her career, dating around and gaining relationship experiences. The same girl around her early 30s will likely look around to settle down and have family with great partner, provider. The same woman in her 40s may already has grown up children, if she doesn't have partner she may be looking for different adventures. Those are just examples. So if you are a guy in your 20s and looking for great LTR, maybe marriage for the entire life - know that her desires and goals change with age. You will either have to keep up, or you are out.


Second, try to understand who you are, what background you come from, what is your overall mindset, and what can you offer for LTR?

Simply try to roughly “match” who you are with who she is, at least on a piece of paper. For example, is she is the ambitious girl from the above example with a good college degree, good income, good social status, who takes care of her health - and you have High school diploma, have some sub-average job, are 40 pounds overweight, don't take care of your hygiene, sleep in mamma's basement and trying to convince yourself that you will be making millions from your great online blogging career while you have 4 readers in the past one month..... I'm not gonna lie to you, you simply don't match. I can see it, and she can see it. You are already rejected for LTR, you have no chance. You can have any seduction skills in the world, you can be really a great guy, but you don't match – she is not looking for a guy like that to be in LTR. You have to match in major areas of her life, otherwise it will be very challenging relationship built on poor foundation. She can settle down with a guy like that for a while, she can "settle down" with a great seducer, lover or fuck boy, or even average beta male, but know that once she finds somebody who is really what she's looking for, she will replace these guys without any regret. You already lost the battle before it could be won, she just "keeps you around" while looking for the real deal.
So, I hate to break it to you buddy, but if you can't provide great and comfortable life or if you are not on your way to do it, if you don't have solid masculine frame, in her eyes you just can't be a great LTR material. You will be replaced, your house will be taken away, you will pay alimony, and the next club you can join is red pill.
So be aware of what she is looking for in a guy, and know what you can offer to her. If you don't "match", seduction skills will not help you much for LTR. If you want true LTR you have to bring to the table good LTR value, otherwise she will be looking for another tables.


Third, what is available to her.

* If she is the ambitious girl from above example and is in her upper 20s and she is looking to have family, she will have many many options. Way more options than we guys can even understand. She will likely go for a guy with much higher status, education, and income. She will go for highest available guy to her, yet a guy who she can have some power over (who is attainable). It is unlikely that she will find guy in her age group that matches what she's looking for. Younger guys in their 20s are also working on career, most don't have enough motivation, skills, and don't make enough money to settle down and have family. For her, a guy in his 40s (if available) might be much better match, he is established, he already has everything she is looking for. If such guy is not available, she will simply look for next best available option. So many variables here, depending on what she wants and what she is looking for. If you are a guy in your 20s, she may really like you, but your chances for are simply lower in comparison to established guy in 30s or 40s. That's just how it is.

* Compare her to the same woman in her 40s. She's got great career, great money, she is independent. This woman is still looking for that perfect guy, the only problem is, those guys are mostly gone, they are married, or they will look for much younger girls in her 20s... So her options now are very limited. She screwed herself up with high ambitions, demanding career, workaholic lifestyle. She's in her 40s and men she desires are gone, so she has to look for another men. If she wants relationship she will have to downgrade her options, look for lower value man...

* There are not so many great guys in this high positions who are established, who have great career, and who willing to settle down with one loyal woman. Most are taken. Hint? Hint? Let me ask you a question: Do you see the Hint?


That brings me back to you. Who are you, and what kind of girl are you looking for?

I can tell you from my experience, if you are looking for LTR with great woman, DO NOT TRY TO BE SEDUCER, fuck boy, PUA, Alpha male, mysterious traveler and so forth, whatever you guys call it. Always assume that women are very smart, 10x times smarter in this area (seduction, dating, relationships) than guys. A girl like that will see right through you within days, if not within seconds. So be honest, genuine with your intention. Don't try to game her, assume that she can see through your game very easily. Assume that she knows game 10x better than you, and make no mistake, many times this is true. Once she smells you are a smooth talker, seducer, a guy who can bang bunch of women in no time - you are out as a serious potential LTR candidate. Women know, they have good girlfriends and they also know. If she is interested in you and if she is smart (and many are very smart), she watches every of your move, she interpret every word you say. She will talk about you with her girlfriend, and they can also smell who you are. So throw your game away, remove anything that smells like game, you are only hurting yourself. If you are a fuck boy they will not accept you for LTR. Don't make me wrong, she may sleep with you, she may love the sex with you, she may really feel that you are very very attractive – but you are not an LTR candidate. You don't match what is she looking for, she won't introduce you to her family and friends. You are out, or better said: she wont even let you in. I'm still assuming that you are still talking about Loyal Long Term Partner with a great girl. You won't find a girl like that in a bar. She won't sleep with you the first day you meet her.


So what then?

So, you can't be a seducer, PUA, fuck boy, cold Alpha male, because these guys rule themselves out as a serious LTR candidates. She may really like these guys but she hates the fact they can move on anytime, they are not emotionally available, so she just can't fully trust them for LTR. If she has a high self-esteem, she won't settle down with these guys. You don't want to be a weak and timid beta male either. What can you be?

You have to be very knowledgeable about relationships. You have to understand what such girl that you want and who has LTR mindset is looking for. She will not tell you that directly, and you won't likely understand language she is presenting it to you. So let me tell you: She is looking for a mature, genuine and honest man, with good social status, good position, education, income, health... A guy who takes his life seriously, who is ambitious, family oriented, masculine. A guy who is emotionally stable and emotionally available, who can move through obstacles in life calmly. She is looking for a loyal guy who she can fully trust, meaning a guy who won't sleep behind her back because that for women with high esteem who are in love is disgusting.

So get a great job, nice car, get a house, start investing. Have a strong desire for LTR and having family. Have a solid social circle, make many friends who are married or who are in LTR. Once you meet her, you want to eventually introduce her to your friends, to your family. To your entire life. You can't just go after her, you can't just focus on "seducing" her - you have to go after all of her friends. Befriend her friends, and befriend her family once given a chance. That's lots of work, much more work than seducers have to do because you are not aiming for one night only - you are aiming to become a part of her entire life!

Still not discouraged? Well, you guessed, I'm basically describing a provider. For some reason, the word provider smells in these circles but don't be mistaken – there are many many great woman who would give anything to find a great provider, a guy who really cares, a guy who wants to have family, a guy who wants to take care of his woman and kids, a guy who has a great social status. Many good women salivate to find a great provider, a great man. Yet there very few, so they have to "settle down" with average guys, or at least with fuck boys so they can enjoy some good time. Usually today's providers are known to be weak guys who don't take much care of themselves, they want to settle down, they don't invest anything into relationships, they are mamma's boys, too emotional and weak, and they expect the woman who they like to take care of them.....

You just can't be a weak provider, you can't be immature. You have to have solid backbone, you have to be very masculine, very confident, you have to be the classical leader of the family, and yet, despite that you might have many options, you want to make it very clear - you are very loyal and you expect exactly the same from her. It's got to be black and white. In other words, you have to be the leader of the entire relationship, you have to let her know exactly what you want and expect from your relationship, and you also have to give her some time to "grow" into it. You also have to provide great sex, you have to fuck the shit out of her to satisfy her. If you can't do it, you are weak, undesirable.

Let me say it again, you cannot be a weak provider. You have to show high interest in her but you cannot chase her. You cannot be a needy guy, you have to be perfectly happy living on your own, and she has to know it. You cannot be too emotional. You have to show her that you can calmly walk away from her if she doesn't meet your expectations. She will give you at least one opportunity to walk away from her - you have to do it but don't get cold, mad, angry. Walk away as a cool guy. Don't take this as a game like some guru's suggest: you have to walk away and there is a quite high risk that she may not come back. You have to walk away, you just cannot be weak. She may come back, once she does act as if nothing happen, smile and welcome her back. Whatever you do, don't get cold! And of course, you have to provide - great life, financial comfort, stable relationship, loyalty, excitement, great sex...

If you chose to be a great provider, also know that you will have to face many disadvantages. Once she sees you as a potential great provider who is interested in her, she will likely give you very hard time, among them she will make you wait. She will test the shit out of you just to make sure that you are who you say who you are, you will go through shit tests that most seducers can't even imagine. She will try to throw you off your balance, so you do have to be very confident, and that requires lots of mental and emotional work. You will walk in darkness for days, not knowing what is going on, whether she already dumped you, whether she sleeps with other guys, you will just have no clue what is going on. Yet you can't hesitate, you have to stick to what you want. If you cave in and she throws you off your balance, if show emotions and lose your cool, you are out. Look at those tests as a good thing, remember, she is not settling down with an average guy - she is looking for LTR with a great and solid guy, so she has to test the crap out of you to make sure you are really Great!

 

[Skills]

Bunch of none sense

Long-Term - Relationships fundamentals 101- Part 1 How to enter into a serious relationship properly

So guys every other month you see variations of post like this, or like this, or like this I personally have tried different relationships set up with what you guys consider wife material ( 20s, 8s plus, low lay count, traditional values, eastern european, christians and the rest), to open, to...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Zoro]

I read a little bit and then realized your post is VERY long so I didn't read much further. Some good things, but things that Chase has covered in his articles.

Know that IF she is looking for serious LTR, a guy who she can have relationship with, she is not looking for seducer, fuck boy, mysterious traveler. She doesn't want to be in relationship with a guy who can leave her anytime he wants or who bangs bunch of women behind her back. She doesn't want these guys especially if she has high self esteem. She is looking for loyal guy who she can fully trust.

The problem with the above is that GAME is what has kept my girls around. She will say she wants a serious LTR, and yet they cannot resist a man with game. And game in my definition includes relationship game.

I think the issue here is not game vs relationships, it's your definition of game.

It seems you think "game" means ONLY demonstrating lover value and exuding sexuality that will make women disqualify a man for a relationship. But that is bad game. Bad game is inflexible, and can't keep women around. Good game will keep women around. Good game includes relationship game.

 

[Mali]

I read a little bit and then realized your post is VERY long so I didn't read much further. Some good things, but things that Chase has covered in his articles.




The problem with the above is that GAME is what has kept my girls around. She will say she wants a serious LTR, and yet they cannot resist a man with game. And game in my definition includes relationship game.

I think the issue here is not game vs relationships, it's your definition of game.

It seems you think "game" means ONLY demonstrating lover value and exuding sexuality that will make women disqualify a man for a relationship. But that is bad game. Bad game is inflexible, and can't keep women around. Good game will keep women around. Good game includes relationship game.

True, it is long. Unfortunately there are many more parts to it, there is just no way to make it shorter.

It also depends on what we consider game. What is a game for one guy could be natural behavior for another, so I’ll leave it there.

Wick: “She will say she wants a serious LTR, and yet they cannot resist a man with game”
* But that’s exactly my point. She knows who you are. You can call yourself great seducer or whatever you want, but she sees you as a fuck boy. Does she like you? Yes, maybe a lot, you are exciting. Does she want serious LTR? Yes, I don’t doubt it. Why wouldn’t she? Women don’t lie. But, does she want to be in LTR with you? NOPE. In her eyes you are a fuck boy, you are shooting yourself in the leg with your game. She can’t trust you fully for LTR, she doesn’t want a guy who can easily walk away from her. She may fuck you, but only till she finds a great LTR candidate. At that moment, you are gone, as if you never existed. She will deny that she ever knew you, as it is, most likely none of her good friends know about you.

BTW, sexuality is very important in LTR relationship. If there is no quality sex, there is no good LTR relationship.

Also, think about what you can bring to the table as a great LTR provider. I don’t know you and could be wrong, but based on the lifestyle that is recommended here, probably not much. Why would she want to be with you in LTR? You can leave her anytime, and you have not much to offer other than sex… She would have to be stupid to want LTR with you (your lifestyle). Women are usually very smart in this area…

 

[Zoro]

But that’s exactly my point. She knows who you are. You can call yourself great seducer or whatever you want, but she sees you as a fuck boy. Does she like you? Yes, maybe a lot, you are exciting. Does she want serious LTR? Yes, I don’t doubt it. Why wouldn’t she? Women don’t lie. But, does she want to be in LTR with you? NOPE. In her eyes you are a fuck boy, you are shooting yourself in the leg with your game. She can’t trust you fully for LTR, she doesn’t want a guy who can easily walk away from her. She may fuck you, but only till she finds a great LTR candidate. At that moment, you are gone, as if you never existed. She will deny that she ever knew you, as it is, most likely none of her good friends know about you.

This is bad game, a guy who only knows how to demonstrate lover value.

 

[Skills]

This is the same dude asking how to get girls at work, that got into a discussion with teevester and thomino back again kjing on the forum... how nany ltrs have you had and how many years??

Why are you writting relationship guides, with massive kj, not based on personal experience but kj???

How do I get girls at work that I like?

I am somehow puzzled when seducers here talk about high quality girls. I'd like to know more specifics. Here are some questions, I'm looking for averages or ranges: ^ How much time it takes you from saying hi to bed her. The same day? A week, or month? ^ How many times do you ask her out for a...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Conquistador]

I don't agree with OP for the most part, but I think he raises some really interesting questions. So enjoy my miscellaneous rambling cogitations.



I do agree that experienced seducers tend to have an incomplete understanding of specifically marriage. Sure, they're still much less wrong than most people. But they're still, to a degree, limited by the culture-bound perspective of mainstream Western society.

For 95+% of men out there, once they reach a point when they can get the best woman they can realistically get, and are ready to start building a dynasty, they should probably go and do that.

Problem is, in order to be an "alpha provider" you have to be "alpha". And not just at home.

Don't marry a woman who doesn't believe in marriage being a permanent joint project. Preferably minus the frilly fluff, but it's not a big deal if she's starry eyed so long as you gradually guide her frame into a more realistic view.

Guys get complacent. They think they've made it at that point, which is completely missing the point of "settling down". Do they not realize that most marriages that beat the odds these days have something in common?

Or even worse, they think they've made it once they've been together with a GF for more than a month. Like, WTH?

If you can't already get as much casual fun as you want, then your relationship will partly be about getting laid consistently. Which is needy.



Wanting an exclusive GF for the usual reasons is inherently needy. Wanting a wife is manly.

Also, in this day and age, IF there's a strong man-woman dynamic, theoretical equality in marriage is usually a good thing.




The typical girl's abundance mentality is a heavily correlated with her sociosexuality and partner standards.

A surprising number of college-age girls actually are investing a lot just by opening their legs and//or officially getting together with you. And not all of them are super religious. It's just that the ones who aren't are quiet about it, because of social pressure.



Another point OP makes is the age-old criticism of seducers and especially PUAs not having enough feelings. There technically might be some truth to this, but honestly, most people have silly ideas about love.
The feelings we fetishize of what passes for "romantic" love are really not any more or less valid than your instant desire for a gorgeous stranger.
We've redefined commitment and other things. So who gives a ---- anymore? You probably shouldn't.
And there's nothing Machiavellian about asking "how does this benefit me?" In a healthy relationship, the answer is fairly clear.




Practically, I think a guy above 25 usually shouldn't be locking himself into something exclusive and "committed" unless it's explicitly as a trial period for marriage. Especially for longer than two years. If you can't see her as, at least possibly, the mother of your kids, you should be going with something more casual.
And if you do have a GF? Hold her equally accountable in terms of growing together and keeping the relationship on the right track. You're on the same team. You have the same goals.

 

[HoofHearted]

This post doesn't seem grounded in reality at all.

 

[Mali]

This is the same dude asking how to get girls at work, that got into a discussion with teevester and thomino back again kjing on the forum... how nany ltrs have you had and how many years??

Why are you writting relationship guides, with massive kj, not based on personal experience but kj???

How do I get girls at work that I like?

I am somehow puzzled when seducers here talk about high quality girls. I'd like to know more specifics. Here are some questions, I'm looking for averages or ranges: ^ How much time it takes you from saying hi to bed her. The same day? A week, or month? ^ How many times do you ask her out for a...

www.skilledseducer.com

Skills: This is the same dude asking how to get girls at work, that got into a discussion with teevester and thomino back again kjing on the forum...

True, I was asking, assuming that you guys are knowledgable and understand this kind of field. I was surprised by most answers, you guys are simply clueless. Your best answers are, go bang bunch of girls in the bar that are 5-6, that’s gonna get you your 9. Though there is some truth in it like gaining confidence and experience, I have a news for you: banging bunch of 5s will not get you the girl you want. You guys live in some assumption that you are some great seducers. It’s good to believe it because it gives you confidence. I’m also not saying that you are not attractive and exciting guys, you might be. On the other hand, look up some blogs or what women think about you guys. Some are disgusted, they simply see you as fuck boys. They are afraid to go on dates with guys because they know all these apps are filled with smooth talking fuck boys and ‘Alpha males’ that move from one girl to another. Look it up yourself. Or try it, see how many women will go out with you. Reading recent comments here, probably very few. Women have hard time finding good men because these days they either encounter a weak beta male nice guy, or fuck boy that is not interested in long term. They are afraid they gonna fall in love with fuck buy, who after couple weeks will walk away.

Work environment is a tough environment. There is a high potential for slut shaming, so the girl is obviously very careful, she has to make sure you are the right guy. Which takes time, and testing. That’s why I’m saying that if you are looking for LTR you can’t just focus on the girl you like. You have to go after her social circle, befriend her friends. You have to sort of prove that she can trust you. But that is quite difficult for a seducer, because he usually doesn’t have a good job, he doesn’t spend any time going after that girl and her social circle, and who even disqualifies himself from LTR at the very beginning…

Also try to understand the girls frustration, they love sex yet they can’t sleep openly with fuck boys because of slut shaming. Most other guys are weak, they don’t have a back bone, they have a low desire for sex, and they can’t really provide much. There is simply not enough good men who go after what they want, who can provide good life and good sex love.

 

[Chase]

This seems like a situation where @Mali probably had the wrong idea before, then figured some things out, had an epiphany, and came on here to share his revelations.

It’s a good thing to realize, Mali — no matter how sexy and skilled you are in the seduction, if you want to keep a girl around long-term, you need to actually satisfy the lion’s share of her long-term requirements.

That said, you also seem to be under the impression that you cannot get these types of girls without satisfying their long-term requirements, which is not correct.

I actually do check off all the long-term boxes:

• Went to a good university
• Worked for a highly respected company
• Used to drive a gorgeous luxury car
• Like to have a nice place in a nice area
• Run my own business these days
• Do well enough for myself financially
• Have a good family background
• Stable / non-chaotic personality type
• Absurdly ambitious (but girls tend to think I can probably hit what I aim for)

Etc. But it has only sometimes helped me seduce girls like this, and actually I saw a big shift into doing a lot better with them once I started downplaying a lot of this (or even outright concealing it until after I had converted them):

How to Pick Up Girls When You're Broke

No woman wants to be with a broke guy. Or does she? With a few adjustments, it's easy to do fine with girls, even when you're broke. In my recent article on limiting beliefs, a reader named Dr. Klas asked: "Hey Chase, Thanks for the article — very in-depth as always. Now, I have this limiting...

www.girlschase.com

I’ve also had friends and acquaintances who were total playboy scrubs who worked low end jobs or had no jobs at all (one was a broke part-time drug dealer constantly bumming off of other people) yet routinely bedded girls like this and had short-term relationships with them. The girls wouldn’t generally stick around longer than about three months (average FWB lifecycle, basically), and some of these guys would get upset about their inability to hang onto these girls… others seemed to understand it and accept it. But you definitely can bed many of them.

Keep in mind no girl has had all the experiences. Even if she comes from a safe background and is on an upward trajectory, she may still be taken with that charismatic playboy scrub who takes an interest in her, even if everyone she knows might be shocked she’s with such a guy. She may only date a guy like that once in her life (or maybe she only hooks up with him, then thinks better of it) — but girls like this can be gotten, if not reliably, at least from time to time, even if you are the fuck boy.

There are also the successful, good background girls who make a habit of dating bad boys (maybe as rebellion, or maybe they just like that type of guy) and may date one bad boy after another throughout their 20s.

But yes, to hold onto her long-term, you need to be in her league or above it in terms of career, ambition, earning potential, ability to provide, etc. Very hard to keep girls when you’re not, unless she’s a hard-driving gal and you’re going the house husband route or something akin to it.

More on providing while still being sexy here:

7 Rules on How to Be the Alpha Provider

Last week, I tackled the common pickup / manosphere belief that the ‘alpha provider’ is a myth: both why men in these communities often think this way, as well as why men who actually are alpha providers don’t usually find their ways into such communities to bother providing themselves as...

www.girlschase.com

Chase

 

[Mali]

This seems like a situation where @Mali probably had the wrong idea before, then figured some things out, had an epiphany, and came on here to share his revelations.

It’s a good thing to realize, Mali — no matter how sexy and skilled you are in the seduction, if you want to keep a girl around long-term, you need to actually satisfy the lion’s share of her long-term requirements.

That said, you also seem to be under the impression that you cannot get these types of girls without satisfying their long-term requirements, which is not correct.

I actually do check off all the long-term boxes:

• Went to a good university
• Worked for a highly respected company
• Used to drive a gorgeous luxury car
• Like to have a nice place in a nice area
• Run my own business these days
• Do well enough for myself financially
• Have a good family background
• Stable / non-chaotic personality type
• Absurdly ambitious (but girls tend to think I can probably hit what I aim for)

Etc. But it has only sometimes helped me seduce girls like this, and actually I saw a big shift into doing a lot better with them once I started downplaying a lot of this (or even outright concealing it until after I had converted them):

How to Pick Up Girls When You're Broke

No woman wants to be with a broke guy. Or does she? With a few adjustments, it's easy to do fine with girls, even when you're broke. In my recent article on limiting beliefs, a reader named Dr. Klas asked: "Hey Chase, Thanks for the article — very in-depth as always. Now, I have this limiting...

www.girlschase.com

I’ve also had friends and acquaintances who were total playboy scrubs who worked low end jobs or had no jobs at all (one was a broke part-time drug dealer constantly bumming off of other people) yet routinely bedded girls like this and had short-term relationships with them. The girls wouldn’t generally stick around longer than about three months (average FWB lifecycle, basically), and some of these guys would get upset about their inability to hang onto these girls… others seemed to understand it and accept it. But you definitely can bed many of them.

Keep in mind no girl has had all the experiences. Even if she comes from a safe background and is on an upward trajectory, she may still be taken with that charismatic playboy scrub who takes an interest in her, even if everyone she knows might be shocked she’s with such a guy. She may only date a guy like that once in her life (or maybe she only hooks up with him, then thinks better of it) — but girls like this can be gotten, if not reliably, at least from time to time, even if you are the fuck boy.

There are also the successful, good background girls who make a habit of dating bad boys (maybe as rebellion, or maybe they just like that type of guy) and may date one bad boy after another throughout their 20s.

But yes, to hold onto her long-term, you need to be in her league or above it in terms of career, ambition, earning potential, ability to provide, etc. Very hard to keep girls when you’re not, unless she’s a hard-driving gal and you’re going the house husband route or something akin to it.

More on providing while still being sexy here:

7 Rules on How to Be the Alpha Provider

Last week, I tackled the common pickup / manosphere belief that the ‘alpha provider’ is a myth: both why men in these communities often think this way, as well as why men who actually are alpha providers don’t usually find their ways into such communities to bother providing themselves as...

www.girlschase.com

Chase

As always, great reply Chase.

You guys make it seem that dating at work is somehow impossible. I know that there are many people who meet at work and have great relationships. Look up statistics, couples from around 20% of marriages met at work. According to some that’s more than Tinder and social media combined. Around some 90% coworkers felt attracted to another person at work. Almost 60% dated someone at work. Over 30% formed some type of relationship. In my opinion, those are BIG numbers. I’m not doing any research but quick links here:

https://zety.com/blog/office-romance

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimels...ake-up-call-to-organizations/?sh=3be3621e23a2


Again, I’m talking more about guys who are more interested in LTR, not a quick lays which you guys-seducers here seem to be obsessed with. Work is a great environment for LTR (if LTR is what guys are looking for). You just have to find a good way to approach it, which you seducers seem to be clueless about, but again, your agenda is totally different than agenda of many guys looking for LTR. If you want a quick lay at work, that's most likely won't happen with a girl who has high self esteem, you have to go through many loops, and you likely have to wait.

LTR indeed requires huge investment. We are not talking about quick lays, we are talking about potentially many years of relationship. The girl knows it that's why she has to make sure that you are the right guy she will want to invest years, maybe decades into. A guy with LTR goal has to have different mindset than seducer. Seducer disqualifies himself from LTR, he doesn’t stay around for long, he moves on fast. Provider does not. A woman that is looking to settle down and have a family will prefer provider versus seducer. A wrong conclusion many guys have here is that provider cannot satisfy his woman sexually. Many times true, but that is up to the provider to improve himself in his skills. There are many providers who can provide great sex, great emotions, and great charisma. There is no limit.

Playboys you are describing are or were popular because there is not enough good providers. If a woman can’t find a good provider she will find a playboy, seducer, bad boy. Or a weak provider and attractive guy on the side, she will cheat. If however she finds a great provider who can satisfy her sexually and emotionally, playboys or seducers have no chance. Not whatsoever. Try to seduce woman in love, or many times just a woman in good good relationship. It’s impossible. Only women who are not satisfied in current relationship are looking around for excitement.

Bad Boy is usually a guy who only cares about sex. He doesn’t attached to the women emotionally, he doesn’t care about love, about getting feminine feelings from her. He does certainly have charisma. But he doesn’t really care much about her, the only thing he can provide is no strings attached sex. Make no mistake though, women don’t want to end up with bad boys. She wants a guy who cares about her, who loves her, but at the same time who is emotionally stable and emotionally strong enough. A guy who is a man enough and not a weak emotional wimp who is looking for her feminine feelings only, and thus is not able to provide a great sex. Which seem to be the problem with many guys today, they don’t really want to bang their 9, they just want to hang around her and feel the feminine emotions! Quite repulsive actually.

Man, I wouldn’t be want to be a woman today. On one side charismatic guys who want to get laid only, and on the other emotional wimps that want mamma and not GF. A guy who can provide BOTH and stick around is quite rare, difficult to find! That's a true Value Man.

So being a good provider is actually quite difficult. It is much easier to become a seducer. The problem with becoming a seducer is that a guy has to invest a lot of his time, effort and practice, and once he become good, he doesn't want to 'waste' all the skills on one woman only. It becomes obsession, constant chasing for new and new women.

 

[HoofHearted]

This seems like a situation where @Mali probably had the wrong idea before, then figured some things out, had an epiphany, and came on here to share his revelations.

It’s a good thing to realize, Mali — no matter how sexy and skilled you are in the seduction, if you want to keep a girl around long-term, you need to actually satisfy the lion’s share of her long-term requirements.

That said, you also seem to be under the impression that you cannot get these types of girls without satisfying their long-term requirements, which is not correct.

I actually do check off all the long-term boxes:

• Went to a good university
• Worked for a highly respected company
• Used to drive a gorgeous luxury car
• Like to have a nice place in a nice area
• Run my own business these days
• Do well enough for myself financially
• Have a good family background
• Stable / non-chaotic personality type
• Absurdly ambitious (but girls tend to think I can probably hit what I aim for)

Etc. But it has only sometimes helped me seduce girls like this, and actually I saw a big shift into doing a lot better with them once I started downplaying a lot of this (or even outright concealing it until after I had converted them):

How to Pick Up Girls When You're Broke

No woman wants to be with a broke guy. Or does she? With a few adjustments, it's easy to do fine with girls, even when you're broke. In my recent article on limiting beliefs, a reader named Dr. Klas asked: "Hey Chase, Thanks for the article — very in-depth as always. Now, I have this limiting...

www.girlschase.com

I’ve also had friends and acquaintances who were total playboy scrubs who worked low end jobs or had no jobs at all (one was a broke part-time drug dealer constantly bumming off of other people) yet routinely bedded girls like this and had short-term relationships with them. The girls wouldn’t generally stick around longer than about three months (average FWB lifecycle, basically), and some of these guys would get upset about their inability to hang onto these girls… others seemed to understand it and accept it. But you definitely can bed many of them.

Keep in mind no girl has had all the experiences. Even if she comes from a safe background and is on an upward trajectory, she may still be taken with that charismatic playboy scrub who takes an interest in her, even if everyone she knows might be shocked she’s with such a guy. She may only date a guy like that once in her life (or maybe she only hooks up with him, then thinks better of it) — but girls like this can be gotten, if not reliably, at least from time to time, even if you are the fuck boy.

There are also the successful, good background girls who make a habit of dating bad boys (maybe as rebellion, or maybe they just like that type of guy) and may date one bad boy after another throughout their 20s.

But yes, to hold onto her long-term, you need to be in her league or above it in terms of career, ambition, earning potential, ability to provide, etc. Very hard to keep girls when you’re not, unless she’s a hard-driving gal and you’re going the house husband route or something akin to it.

More on providing while still being sexy here:

7 Rules on How to Be the Alpha Provider

Last week, I tackled the common pickup / manosphere belief that the ‘alpha provider’ is a myth: both why men in these communities often think this way, as well as why men who actually are alpha providers don’t usually find their ways into such communities to bother providing themselves as...

www.girlschase.com

Chase

See, this is a great reply. It is informative, considerate, and strikes such an amazing tone in its presentation. This guy does nothing but deliver value. It even assumes the best in the original poster.

To see it wasted in this thread does me no good, personally. Since the core of this thread actually reads like the worst kind of sales copy.

Probably anybody who has actually talked to a woman for more than 5 minutes could just dismiss most of the original diatribe and subsequent addenda. I may not fully understand what exactly going on here.

But it just is not the case.

 

[Teevster]

Playboys you are describing are or were popular because there is not enough good providers. If a woman can’t find a good provider she will find a playboy, seducer, bad boy. Or a weak provider and attractive guy on the side, she will cheat. If however she finds a great provider who can satisfy her sexually and emotionally, playboys or seducers have no chance. Not whatsoever.

()





#Secret Society

 

[mist]

You guys make it seem that dating at work is somehow impossible.

Mali probably

 

[ulrich]

Lot of assumptions here about who we are and what we can and can’t get.
Particularly coming from a guy that rejects our suggestions without trying yet he is pretty sure that they don’t work.

A more open mind will serve you well in life @Mali

 

[Chase]

Yeah, this guy's mind is completely closed.

He knows what women want, he knows what every guy here is like, he's got a complete and ironclad view of the world.

It ain't changing.

The one thing that seemingly has not occurred to him is, "If I know so much about how the world works, and all the people within it, and my understanding is so deep and far-reaching, why am I unable to get the things I want?"

A tip, @Mali: when you don't have what you want in life, it is not because life is unfair. Not unless you are literally a helpless child whose whole life is at the mercy of adults. Even as a child, the older you get, the more of how things go in life are determined by you.

What you need to realize is that when you can't get what you want, as an adult, it is always either due to a.) not understanding how to get what you want, or b.) understanding how to get it but lacking the will to do what is required to obtain it.

In your case the issue is clearly a.)

There's a whole lot here you do not get, that you don't realize you don't get, that to everybody else here it's obvious you don't get.

None of it, by the way, is about "you need to become a player."

Anyway man, look: if all you want to do is debate with guys here and try to psychoanalyze people while missing the mark and ruffling feathers, it ain't the place. You can do that on Reddit or in YouTube comments or something.

Read these:

STICKIED: Board Etiquette

Quick announcement, fellas -- It's come to my attention that in the past few months that I haven't been on here as much, there's been a rise in pessimism / psychic vampirism going on here. Scanning back through some of the more recent posts, I'm seeing some of this, and it does not make me...

www.skilledseducer.com

Real Empiricists Test

In the comments of Saturday’s article about signs you’re in the friend zone, uForia makes the following comment: “Ive been a long time reader of your articles, and I can’t help but be skeptical at times. Your posts often have a tone of disliking competition from other men, and what makes you...

www.girlschase.com

If it's still not clicking, it just might be you've stumbled into the wrong establishment here.

Considering what you seem to be looking for, you might find the current RooshV community resonates a lot more with you:

Courtship and relationships

Discussion of ideas related to meeting women and courtship (dating) for the intention of marriage.

www.rooshvforum.com

Chase