Drama How to recover from when things start going sideways?

[ieatapples]

A girl I have been seeing for the past couple of years has started asking for more from me in terms of a relationship. I've been pretty selfish in keeping her at a distance with the promise and intent of giving her more but being unable to do so due to having a primary partner with whom I live with.

Things started breaking down in January when I pulled back a little as a reaction to the gifts she got for my kids for Christmas. I was not expecting it, and it was so sweet that it shook me a little. I don't think I realised really how deeply she was into me, despite saying she loved me etc. Sometimes it's hard to believe if a girl REALLY means what she says... at least for me.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, we're in that phase where she's told me she wants a proper girlfriend/boyfriend experience (we've only seen each other 2-3 times a month for the past 2 years, keeping our lives separate as we both have young kids). And I certainly want the same, however her approach to asking for it was standoffish and quite disrespectful, so I didn't agree to it. She had been hinting at it for a while, but never really sat down for a serious conversation about it. From the fallout from it all, I went pretty cold because she said she was going to start looking for a boyfriend whilst we were still involved. I got annoyed because I didn't agree to open things up and though, screw it I'll add a girl to the old rotation - and I did, except my feeling are still strong for the girl and sex/chatting/interacting with the new girl (and I've tried a few) pales by comparison.

Where we're at today is at the point of just agreeing to fuck. I know she wants love, but is horny, and I want love and am horny - but for some reason we just can't seem to align on what that means for either of us. She sees love as more of a lifestyle and I see it as a feeling and bond - external environment be damned. But again, I don't mind doing the lifestyle stuff, I just don't like it being demanded of me. I am hoping that after a good make up fuck I will be able to engage with her more and find a middle ground and get things on track.

We've been texting back and forth, and yesterday we agreed to reach a time to fuck on Sunday. The chat was rather dry so I threw in a bit of playfulness asking her how she wanted me and what sexy underwear I should wear (a role reversal joke). We got into it a bit with some back and forth and I texted a little more than I normally would. Usually our conversations are about something of our days and light-hearted fun back and forth - maybe 2-4 longish texts per day. With last nights interaction, it was small and succinct chat related to meeting up.

Today she has texted me "that was the most messages I've ever received from you in one day, I feel like a celebrity" - it feels like a test and I'm really not sure what best way to approach this? Feelings are involved and there's a risk of being player ish/cold, or worse, desperate.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

It seems that after 2 years you're still trying to manipulate and "game" each other instead of building real communication.

Game and jealousy and freezouts are fine during the initial stages of attraction, but real communication is absolutely required in a real relationship.

If you want "love", you can't play games like "go cold to punish her" or "fine, then I'll just go fuck someone else too" to solve problems.

How to Stop Playing Games (in Your Relationship)

We’ve used frames a lot for the sake of getting sexually intimate with women quickly… now let’s look at the power of frames in the context of exclusive relationships a bit more. Let’s take the example we used in our last post, "How to Not Fall in Love"… she’s not texting you, and you’re starting...

www.girlschase.com

Btw, how would it even work if you still live with the mother of your children? The whole thing sounds extremely messy.

 

[ieatapples]

It seems that after 2 years you're still trying to manipulate and "game" each other instead of building real communication.

Game and jealousy and freezouts are fine during the initial stages of attraction, but real communication is absolutely required in a real relationship.

If you want "love", you can't play games like "go cold to punish her" or "fine, then I'll just go fuck someone else too" to solve problems.

How to Stop Playing Games (in Your Relationship)

We’ve used frames a lot for the sake of getting sexually intimate with women quickly… now let’s look at the power of frames in the context of exclusive relationships a bit more. Let’s take the example we used in our last post, "How to Not Fall in Love"… she’s not texting you, and you’re starting...

www.girlschase.com

Btw, how would it even work if you still live with the mother of your children? The whole thing sounds extremely messy.

I've probably not explained the situation properly. We started off as a casual fwb style relationship, and it developed into something more after about almost a year. I didn't plan for it, but fell for her and we become closer. It's not been games or anything of the kind up until this point.

And you're right, it is messy. I'm hoping that there is somehow some kind of way to make this work!

Unless my at home partner were to turn into something horrible, I will not put my kids through a broken family. I'd rather be sexually/emotionally unfulfilled than see my kids grow up that way.

 

[ieatapples]

@Karea - just read through the article you linked and it's very good, but I pretty much already follow that rule. Playing games is exhausting, it's getting out of them when they start that's the hard part!

Still no idea what to respond with, if at all. She knows I'm not much of a texter and that precedent was set from the very beginning. I prefer to text for logistics and light-hearted chat/keeping in touch. Part of her feeling rejected is because of my lack of talking on the phone and chatting to make up for time apart. It doesn't come naturally to me and I don't even engage with my friends in that kind of way.

 

[Michael Chief]

I am hoping that after a good make up fuck I will be able to engage with her more and find a middle ground and get things on track.

By that I hope you mean having a real conversation like mature adults who aren't playing games.

Aside from this part it almost sounds like you have an avoidant attachment style. Work on developing secure attachment habits if that's the case.

If your relationships are messy then clean them up. What would you teach your children to do if they found themselves in your situation?

 

[Chase]

@ieatapples,

This is the two-year drop:

The 2 Year Drop

Ever notice how fairytales and about ninety-nine out of a hundred romance tales you see or read are about how two people first got together? Cinderella meets her prince, against all odds, and he manages to find her again after he's lost her, against all odds, and the two of them ride off...

www.girlschase.com

(or thereabouts. You didn't say how long. Sometimes it's at 1.5 years. Sometimes it's at 3. Usually around 2 though)

She's been with you a few years, but progress has stalled. She needs to see forward momentum.

What's her long-term objective here? Does she want kids/a family? If you can't give her that you're going to lose her at some point. Does she not, but wants to live with her man? Again, if you can't give her that, you'll lose her sooner or later. Nothing you can say or do will prevent that -- if you cannot deliver what she needs, you'll force her to seek it elsewhere once she gives up hoping she can have it with you.

Be prepared for the emotional roller-coaster when that happens... you're already entering the stage where she's made her objectives clear, while you're trying (or at least wanting) to hold onto her and keep things the way they are without any changes. If she can't get away more easily, she'll start going cold toward you, and it'll hurt:

Why Women Make You 'Dead to Them' at Breakup Time

Everything was great with her... and then out of the blue she went ice cold to you and treated you like as if you were dead to her. Why do women 'dead you out', and what can you do when they do it? On the Girls Chase Boards, a forum member named Ramshead talks about a girl from work he's been...

www.girlschase.com

Also:

Today she has texted me "that was the most messages I've ever received from you in one day, I feel like a celebrity" - it feels like a test and I'm really not sure what best way to approach this? Feelings are involved and there's a risk of being player ish/cold, or worse, desperate.

As @Karea Ricardus D. and @Michael Chief noted, these little tactical considerations do not matter really for what you're dealing with. But anyway, yeah, she is probably sensing that she's affected you some and you may be opening up to her more -- or she's hoping, at least.

If you can't figure out a way to get on the same page with this girl though, someone is going to get hurt.

Probably two someones.

You really need to have a talk with her and figure out:

• What's she want long-term?
• Is there any way she can have that with you?
• If not... then what's in the cards for the two of you?

Chase

 

[Dimension]

You must of knew that day will come one day, when she wants to get serious, didn't you?

Quote you said: "Unless my at home partner were to turn into something horrible, I will not put my kids through a broken family. I'd rather be sexually/emotionally unfulfilled than see my kids grow up that way."

Have you considered fixing your relationship with your home partner?
Also, that is the biggest bullshit i have heard, you make yourself suffer for what? I have a kid myself and i have Ex girlfriend i'm no longer with. But our kid is much happier when we are seperated, and that doesn't just come from my personal experience. I have multiple friends/girlfriends who have gone down same path, and their kids are very happy. Being a parent doesn't mean you have to be in the house for 24/7, being a parent is being there, when your kids need your support. Calling them, planning activities together etc. I am sorry, but i'm not buying that "pawning your soul for the sake of family values", and i don't think you are either.

 

[ieatapples]

Thanks guys for your input.

Just to update, I managed to turn things around. However, some damage had been done. She slept with another guy in our time apart and said she felt horrible and had no value for herself at the time. The guy didn't use protection and shot his shot whilst she was in the ovulation window. Naturally, this felt like my kidneys had been crushed ~ it's one thing to have a stable partner on the side, but another completely to be used as a sperm dump.

Anyway, I'm no stranger to having a girl that has more than one partner and I am regularly seeing more than one person, so I was able to look past it and communicate why I was not happy with the situation. Over the next few days we grew closer together and for the first time ever, she had reflected on her part in the causation of us splitting in the first place and it was music to my ears. A soft spot opened in my heart after that.

The issue still remained, however, that I had not told her about the existence of my long term partner - and taking into account what @Chase had said, I figured it was best to reveal the truth and give her the option of what she would want to do going forward. My close friend, on the other hand, was begging me not to say anything and to just let things run their course and slowly split with her without ever revealing anything. I felt he was wrong because I would always wonder "what if". What if, I had told her about my partner, and somehow she was open to it (key point: she had proposed multiple times to swing or have a threesome with her friend in December, so she's not strictly mono) and I could make her my girlfriend and introduce her to my long term partner over time. I had to know!

Needless to say, it was a disaster, and I was overcome with fear of the threat of her traipsing to my house in the hopes of revealing my "affair" to my long time partner (I should have never let her leave the venue I gave her the news in without arguing it out). Suddenly, one night, my original fear was vindicated when she turned up at my house with a document in hand containing print-outs of text messages and a one-sided narrative to give to my partner. With some luck, or by the grace of God as some would say, my partner wasn't in and the situation did not go as she'd planned.

In any case, I hate myself for having hurt her like that. I hate myself for not standing my ground and explaining my side of things to her and I hate myself for not telling her a lot, lot, sooner. My mistakes came from fear. Fear of losing her, fear of her losing her mind and fear of her trying to split my family (which had occurred with a previous girl in the past, hence the secrecy of my long term partner this time around). I really liked this girl and I still don't know if it was her telling me that I can share with her anything or that I could never top the issues that she had shared with me or if it was the immense stress I had been suffering from at work, but I decided to reveal the truth to her about my situation and it's left me in a horrible place mentally. And to top it off, she has blocked me on WhatsApp because she knows, as well as I, that she won't be able to NOT go back to me otherwise (and in case anyone is thinking it, no I did not go chasing or begging for forgiveness or any of that corny stuff. I tried calling once on Wednesday morning and that was it - maybe I should have done more than that, but the events of her turning up on Saturday night with that document, I can't really forgive).

If there is one lesson I hope someone can learn from this, is to never let fear, even a little fear, dictate your actions or inactions.

This article is definitely one to ponder and read many, many times https://www.girlschase.com/content/when-you-concede-dont-pander-or-break
And do, very much, follow the advice on this one https://www.girlschase.com/article/female-mind/dont-date-women-pills-or-issues

 

[Chase]

Whew, what a disaster.

It sounds like you got the lessons from this, so I won't belabor any points here.

Going forwards, one recommendation if you do this sort of thing again: the sidepiece always needs to know about the existence of a main girl from the get-go or nearly so. Hiding that kind of thing leads to women who are deeply misled -- and often deeply vengeful.

Chase

 

[Casanova Newhouse]

Thanks guys for your input.

Just to update, I managed to turn things around. However, some damage had been done. She slept with another guy in our time apart and said she felt horrible and had no value for herself at the time. The guy didn't use protection and shot his shot whilst she was in the ovulation window. Naturally, this felt like my kidneys had been crushed ~ it's one thing to have a stable partner on the side, but another completely to be used as a sperm dump.

Anyway, I'm no stranger to having a girl that has more than one partner and I am regularly seeing more than one person, so I was able to look past it and communicate why I was not happy with the situation. Over the next few days we grew closer together and for the first time ever, she had reflected on her part in the causation of us splitting in the first place and it was music to my ears. A soft spot opened in my heart after that.

The issue still remained, however, that I had not told her about the existence of my long term partner - and taking into account what @Chase had said, I figured it was best to reveal the truth and give her the option of what she would want to do going forward. My close friend, on the other hand, was begging me not to say anything and to just let things run their course and slowly split with her without ever revealing anything. I felt he was wrong because I would always wonder "what if". What if, I had told her about my partner, and somehow she was open to it (key point: she had proposed multiple times to swing or have a threesome with her friend in December, so she's not strictly mono) and I could make her my girlfriend and introduce her to my long term partner over time. I had to know!

Needless to say, it was a disaster, and I was overcome with fear of the threat of her traipsing to my house in the hopes of revealing my "affair" to my long time partner (I should have never let her leave the venue I gave her the news in without arguing it out). Suddenly, one night, my original fear was vindicated when she turned up at my house with a document in hand containing print-outs of text messages and a one-sided narrative to give to my partner. With some luck, or by the grace of God as some would say, my partner wasn't in and the situation did not go as she'd planned.

In any case, I hate myself for having hurt her like that. I hate myself for not standing my ground and explaining my side of things to her and I hate myself for not telling her a lot, lot, sooner. My mistakes came from fear. Fear of losing her, fear of her losing her mind and fear of her trying to split my family (which had occurred with a previous girl in the past, hence the secrecy of my long term partner this time around). I really liked this girl and I still don't know if it was her telling me that I can share with her anything or that I could never top the issues that she had shared with me or if it was the immense stress I had been suffering from at work, but I decided to reveal the truth to her about my situation and it's left me in a horrible place mentally. And to top it off, she has blocked me on WhatsApp because she knows, as well as I, that she won't be able to NOT go back to me otherwise (and in case anyone is thinking it, no I did not go chasing or begging for forgiveness or any of that corny stuff. I tried calling once on Wednesday morning and that was it - maybe I should have done more than that, but the events of her turning up on Saturday night with that document, I can't really forgive).

If there is one lesson I hope someone can learn from this, is to never let fear, even a little fear, dictate your actions or inactions.

This article is definitely one to ponder and read many, many times https://www.girlschase.com/content/when-you-concede-dont-pander-or-break
And do, very much, follow the advice on this one https://www.girlschase.com/article/female-mind/dont-date-women-pills-or-issues

Wow my heart goes out to you brother. It's amazing how quickly things can spiral out of control. I've had similar situations in the past, where I've tried to have my cake and eat it too, and all it does it hurt everyone involved. It's a blow to your self-esteem and self identity. This too shall pass, friend, even if it doesn't feel like it at the moment.

Seems like you have learned the right lesson from it - do not let fear dictate your actions.