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How to split the bill on a date without making it awkward

Kaida

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Jul 6, 2020
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652
I got a short informational date at a restaurant (nonexpensive) on Wednesday. I really dont want to pay for it.

Thing is, since the bill isn’t much usually, I tend to curve to the awkwardness and just pay it so theres no talk about it. I havent really discovered a way around it without sounding cheap. Especially since the cashier / waiter usually assumes you’ll be paying and I have to correct him.

What do you guys do in these situations?
 

MrVariety

Space Monkey
space monkey
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May 15, 2025
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57
I don't know about OP, but in my country you can't get a dinner for two under 20, unless you go to a fast food restaurant or something.

You could go to a place where they have QR codes on the table, so each person pay with their phone when you order. She won't ask you to pay for hers. This is typical of food-court places.

Really though this should be a non-issue. Avoid dinner dates if you don't want to invest money in her yet. I rarely do dinners on the first date unless she has made a great impression via text. I feel like she has to earn it. Dinners are great if you're too lazy find something free and interesting to do, but then you should pay for your laziness.

If the date goes shit, and you really don't want to pay or see her again, don't see it as an awkward situation to cope with, but a opportunity to improve your assertiveness. The book "When I say No, I feel guilty" contains great practical tips on how to assert yourself, and you can use situations like these to practice its contents. I rarely ask a woman to split, but if she mentions "the patriarchy" or something, I'll try to make her pay for the entire thing lol.

Mr Variety
 
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Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
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6,352
@Kaida,

Don't do dates at restaurants if you don't want to pay.

The last time I had a date at a restaurant with a girl I hadn't already fucked like 20 times already I was still in my first year of seduction... I had us split the bill; she was PISSED... Puerto Rican chick... gave me this lecture on how men in her culture would NEVER let a woman pay for her own meal... then when I just shrugged it off she got ultra horny, started breathing heavy, getting all touchy... rookie me was like "What do I do? This wasn't supposed to happen! We're supposed to go to the bookstore next then go for ice cream!"

Anyway, I stupidly took her to the bookstore instead of to my place... she was snuggled all up on me while I pretended to read some book, lol... then ice cream... by the time I got her back to my place she had totally cooled off and nothing happened / blocked me when I tried to kiss her.

Never took another girl to a restaurant again after that unless it was a long-term relationship... too much of a wildcard!

Chase
 

MrVariety

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 15, 2025
Messages
57
I'm also not so sure that biting the bullet of a cheap date is as trivial at it seems. I guess it depends on what you're after. But long term, I think you're just delaying the eventual awkwardness that will follow suit if you're planning to do more things together.

The "danger" is that the first couple of times you meet each other sets the initial frame of your relationship, which is virtually impossible to break out from once established. She'll kind put you into a mental category of provider guy.

Say you pay the $20 date, but then she comes to expect the $40 date, then the $100 date, and then if you go on like this she'll expect you to pay for her flight tickets and hotels for vacations and down the road you'll be paying for everything. Not saying it's wrong to be a provider, but IMO then she had to be submissive as hell.

So the low investment might turn big unless you taper down your investment the more sex you have. But it's really a bad strategy. Women will feel a bit cheated and resentful when you change your behaviour in an unfavourable direction after getting sex or commitment.

Better to gradually increase investment instead of the other way around.

In any case there isn't a right answer as to whether you want to pay for everything or split 50/50, but what's important is that you establish a frame that you want, and avoid paying things out of awkwardness or a sense of obligation. Only invite and pay for a dinner you gain a pure sense of pleasure from giving. If you pay for dinners because you have to bite the bullet to follow the script and get sex, then it's not helping you, it's actually harming you in terms of raw sexual attraction. Like @Chase pointed out, women's genuine sexual attraction toward guys has more to do with frame control than swiping credit cards.

From my experience, women gain attraction points toward me despite acts of kindness lol. Counter-intuitively, the "worse" you treat a woman the more she'll desire you, atleast sexually.

Mr Variety
 
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Kaida

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Messages
652
I usually pay for Ice cream dates, and dont really mind paying for this, but this girl already tried boyfriend framing me by saying “take me on a date” (which I rejected and reframed to an informal hangout)

I feel like paying would be a bit too much into BF territory and let her feel like this is a “date”

I’ll probably do the off-screen method Chase mentions in his article - excuse myself to the bathroom and get the waiter and pay without her seeing me

@Kaida,

Don't do dates at restaurants if you don't want to pay.

The last time I had a date at a restaurant with a girl I hadn't already fucked like 20 times already I was still in my first year of seduction... I had us split the bill; she was PISSED... Puerto Rican chick... gave me this lecture on how men in her culture would NEVER let a woman pay for her own meal... then when I just shrugged it off she got ultra horny, started breathing heavy, getting all touchy... rookie me was like "What do I do? This wasn't supposed to happen! We're supposed to go to the bookstore next then go for ice cream!"

Anyway, I stupidly took her to the bookstore instead of to my place... she was snuggled all up on me while I pretended to read some book, lol... then ice cream... by the time I got her back to my place she had totally cooled off and nothing happened / blocked me when I tried to kiss her.

Never took another girl to a restaurant again after that unless it was a long-term relationship... too much of a wildcard!

Chase

Tbh this story makes it sound like it worked (turned her on) , and she just auto-rejected since you missed the escalation window. Not because you didn’t pay

Dinners are great if you're too lazy find something free and interesting to do, but then you should pay for your laziness.

Got me there lol
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
5,482
I don't know about OP, but in my country you can't get a dinner for two under 20, unless you go to a fast food restaurant or something.

You could go to a place where they have QR codes on the table, so each person pay with their phone when you order. She won't ask you to pay for hers. This is typical of food-court places.

Really though this should be a non-issue. Avoid dinner dates if you don't want to invest money in her yet. I rarely do dinners on the first date unless she has made a great impression via text. I feel like she has to earn it. Dinners are great if you're too lazy find something free and interesting to do, but then you should pay for your laziness.

If the date goes shit, and you really don't want to pay or see her again, don't see it as an awkward situation to cope with, but a opportunity to improve your assertiveness. The book "When I say No, I feel guilty" contains great practical tips on how to assert yourself, and you can use situations like these to practice its contents. I rarely ask a woman to split, but if she mentions "the patriarchy" or something, I'll try to make her pay for the entire thing lol.

Mr Variety
if a dude taking a girl to a restaurant horrible... lower odds... you want to get encounters no dinner dates...
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
5,482
I usually pay for Ice cream dates, and dont really mind paying for this, but this girl already tried boyfriend framing me by saying “take me on a date” (which I rejected and reframed to an informal hangout)

I feel like paying would be a bit too much into BF territory and let her feel like this is a “date”

I’ll probably do the off-screen method Chase mentions in his article - excuse myself to the bathroom and get the waiter and pay without her seeing me



Tbh this story makes it sound like it worked (turned her on) , and she just auto-rejected since you missed the escalation window. Not because you didn’t pay



Got me there lol
Wrong... does not matter if she is married, hubby, engage, same process....
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
5,482
@Kaida,

Don't do dates at restaurants if you don't want to pay.

The last time I had a date at a restaurant with a girl I hadn't already fucked like 20 times already I was still in my first year of seduction... I had us split the bill; she was PISSED... Puerto Rican chick... gave me this lecture on how men in her culture would NEVER let a woman pay for her own meal... then when I just shrugged it off she got ultra horny, started breathing heavy, getting all touchy... rookie me was like "What do I do? This wasn't supposed to happen! We're supposed to go to the bookstore next then go for ice cream!"

Anyway, I stupidly took her to the bookstore instead of to my place... she was snuggled all up on me while I pretended to read some book, lol... then ice cream... by the time I got her back to my place she had totally cooled off and nothing happened / blocked me when I tried to kiss her.

Never took another girl to a restaurant again after that unless it was a long-term relationship... too much of a wildcard!

Chase
same, one time i did not plan an encounter correctly, got a $100 bill cause i let her pick the place.... and did not get laid.... thanks the lord so her a second time, and it was encounter and oh wow! got laid...

same girl
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
5,482
I'm also not so sure that biting the bullet of a cheap date is as trivial at it seems. I guess it depends on what you're after. But long term, I think you're just delaying the eventual awkwardness that will follow suit if you're planning to do more things together.

The "danger" is that the first couple of times you meet each other sets the initial frame of your relationship, which is virtually impossible to break out from once established. She'll kind put you into a mental category of provider guy.

Say you pay the $20 date, but then she comes to expect the $40 date, then the $100 date, and then if you go on like this she'll expect you to pay for her flight tickets and hotels for vacations and down the road you'll be paying for everything. Not saying it's wrong to be a provider, but IMO then she had to be submissive as hell.

So the low investment might turn big unless you taper down your investment the more sex you have. But it's really a bad strategy. Women will feel a bit cheated and resentful when you change your behaviour in an unfavourable direction after getting sex or commitment.

Better to gradually increase investment instead of the other way around.

In any case there isn't a right answer as to whether you want to pay for everything or split 50/50, but what's important is that you establish a frame that you want, and avoid paying things out of awkwardness or a sense of obligation. Only invite and pay for a dinner you gain a pure sense of pleasure from giving. If you pay for dinners because you have to bite the bullet to follow the script and get sex, then it's not helping you, it's actually harming you in terms of raw sexual attraction. Like @Chase pointed out, women's genuine sexual attraction toward guys has more to do with frame control than swiping credit cards.

From my experience, women gain attraction points toward me despite acts of kindness lol. Counter-intuitively, the "worse" you treat a woman the more she'll desire you, atleast sexually.

Mr Variety
wrong, i would advice you and kaida to review my post please, thank me later:

 

MrVariety

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 15, 2025
Messages
57
wrong, i would advice you and kaida to review my post please, thank me later:


I read your article and I agree with the overall sentiment of what it's trying to accomplish. Unlearning the traditional script is useful for newbies. Not sure what I said that you think is wrong.
 
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Skills

Tribal Elder
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Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
5,482
I read your article and I agree with the overall sentiment of what it's trying to accomplish. Unlearning the traditional script is useful for newbies. Not sure what I said that you think is wrong.
My bad, i re read the context, got triggered when you said dinners sre great vs reading your content... My apologies
 

MrVariety

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 15, 2025
Messages
57
My bad, i re read the context, got triggered when you said dinners sre great vs reading your content... My apologies
Yeah no no no, seems like everyone in here already knows that dinners and structured formal dates is most likely a bad idea in the initial stages, especially when sex isn't taken for granted. Though as you continue to see a girl, you're going to go on "dates," and the the question of payment is something that eventually has to dealt with.

Having said that, I don't actually think dinner dates or paying per say is the problem. The real problem isn't that you're sitting down eating food together, but that you're betraying a weak frame by following the "correct gentlemen's thing" to "court" her.

I still do go on dinner dates, even early on, if I control the frame. I can't complain of my results.

Most important thing, ag.ain, is to not betray yourself as a "correct" A4-guy. Some examples of my most recent dinner dates I've been to

1. Arranged with the owner of my fav. restaurant that we eat after closing time, being completely alone. I wanted her to put in effort, and I deliberately made it intense, romantic and made her nervous with a lot of eye contact. Makign sex jokes "I want you to taste my hot sauce." Kind of taking her into my world type of thing -- me showing social dominance.
2. Ate at a packed fancy place where everyone was behaving properly. I was up to only shenanigans, I was fighting to take off her shoe for a long time, trying to have sex with her feet. I was under the table trying to untie her shoes pulling it off while she fighting for dear life keeping the shoe on. I like to go to intense places to talk about sexual topics while everyone around me is just trying to have a nice date. Love the contrast. Shows more playful rebellious attitude to misbehave in a fancy place rather than a normal place.
3. Told a girl we're going to a streak house and that she was not allowed to wear under panties. I was fingering her beneath the table. We had to hurry back home, lol

There's a subtle difference between being dominant and being compliant, in terms of going out to dinner when it seems, at least on the surface, that it's the same behavior (inviting her out, eating, paying for the dinner). So I think avoiding dinners as an absolute is useful for those who don't really get frame-control yet, but once they do, the ban can be lifted as dinners can be leveraged for specific purposes if you know what you're doing.

Mr Variety
 
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Spike

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
256
Pay the full thing.

This date at a casual Mexican restaurant cost me $50 (what I ordered was $18. And I got myself an alcoholic drink for $10. And then she got herself something to eat that cost $12. + tip). drove home and had sex immediately after.

you should be making enough money where a $50 date is nothing to you.

Under $20 date is two Big Mac meals
 
the right date makes getting her back home a piece of cake

KJ Francis

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Mar 27, 2023
Messages
990
Another good one is classic diner with booths for pie, especially if you can find a family owned one.

Like if you had a date in a classic movie, where would it be... Ice cream or shakes at the counter, late night lounges with curved booths, takeout only burger joint sharing fries in the car, walk by the pier outside the carnival, etc.

Cheap summer romance
 

Kaida

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Messages
652
you should be making enough money where a $50 date is nothing to you.

this reply has a weird tone.

obviously not about the money. I just hate the frame it sets. I’d be having this discussion even if I was a billionaire.

& kudos on ur story man , but nobody is tryna pay $50 each date when sex aint even guaranteed (and tbh even if it was). I could do that easily, but these girls dont deserve that yet. Especially on the first date.

wrong, i would advice you and kaida to review my post please, thank me later:


Will do 🫡
 

TomInHo

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Dec 13, 2021
Messages
723
I got a short informational date at a restaurant (nonexpensive) on Wednesday. I really dont want to pay for it.

Thing is, since the bill isn’t much usually, I tend to curve to the awkwardness and just pay it so theres no talk about it. I havent really discovered a way around it without sounding cheap. Especially since the cashier / waiter usually assumes you’ll be paying and I have to correct him.

What do you guys do in these situations?

I pay the entire bill

I try not to do dinner dates, but there have been a few times where I did because some girls were just too rigid and had a certain idea how things should go that no amount of "frame control" could fix (if that makes me a simp then so be it)

No biggie though, because as long as I was able to maintain a sexual vibe on the date things usually ended well :)

If she really likes you paying won't hurt you. But trying to avoid the bill can make it awkward for no reason

So you have to know when its the right time to break pick up rules to get what you want

Because at the end of the day none of this stuff is gospel. A lot of it is just opinion and personal experience marketed as science

IME flexibility wins if it maintains the vibe

And the frame is set by your overall vibe, not the bill
 
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