Is GAME overrated?

Shawn

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Nov 21, 2021
Messages
136
One of my friend recently discovered that I do day game and was fascinated by the idea of cold-approach. He didn't know that someone can actually go talk to a hot girl. However, he has a lot of approach anxiety and never tried although he came along with me a few times.

However, recently he spoke to a hot girl who was doing some charity fund raising thing on the street and all he did was talk to her like how I cold-approach a girl. They instantly hit it off and they're fucking like rabbits now. He debunked all the lessons of game and pickup that I have learnt in the past 3-4 years. This hit me hard since I have spent 100s of hours approaching 1000of girls. He is my friend and I don't want to sound harsh and judgemental about him but just to give you the context (don't judge me for judging my friend), he is 5'5" tall and bald. He has 2 friends. (Me and another guy).

This is not even a problem but his level of simping is mind-blowing. We've had several arguments about this topic and we have agreed not to discuss about this anymore. For ex: We went to a night club once and he was looking at a hot girl throughout the night and I told him either to approach her or to just stop looking at her all night long. He said "He is just enjoying her beauty from a distance". He talks about the girl that he is seeing now incessantly and puts her on a pedestal and admires everything she does. He bought her flowers the second day and took her to an expensive restaurant and he paid the bill (Later she protested that and paid for the subsequent outings). He said the waitress in the restaurant now respects him since he is with a hot girl and we had an argument about this as well. But the girl according to him is way out of his league - hot, tall, experienced, super-rich and she is all over him. So, I'm questioning whether game really is necessary?

According to him, he half-ass approached her and that too she was open for approaching since she was raising funds for a charity event (all approaching skills I learnt for several years now are debunked) and talked for a bit nothing interesting (conversation, attraction, comfort - all major game concepts debunked). Then he left, since he was feeling very anxious, after driving halfway, he realised he should've taken her number. So he went back to her after sometime and told her that he was nervous earlier to ask her number and asked her number (confidence debunked). He told her he'll call her that evening at 7PM and called her exactly at 7PM (Text game, Mystery - debunked). Then they planned to meet after 2 days but the girl called him the next day and she said she wanted to meet him the same day since she was leaving my city in a few days and had little time. So they met a day earlier and for 5 days, every evening after that.

One can argue that it's a "Fools mate" and it just happened or it's a one-off situation. I would think the same but it was not a ONS where she couldn't see that my friend didn't have game and she is way too experienced according to him. She is 23 and so not like she is in a rush to settle down either. BTW, he told me that since he hadn't got laid in a year, he was too nervous the first day and couldn't get it up and apologised to the girl many times and she consoled him. So, sex wasn't great either. They have been seeing each other for days now and they are planning to meet again for a holiday and then she is coming to meet him to my city next month. This whole thing has made me question my reality. I read a lot about pickup, I approach at least 3-5 girls every single day for the past 2-3 years and my results are worse than his.
 
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ulrich

Cro-Magnon Man
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Oct 21, 2019
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Ultimately, game is a collection of tools that increase your odds of laying/starting a relationship with a particular girl.

We could say that there is a “baseline” probability of each interaction you have ending in success even with zero game.
Game is what you do to raise your odds.

Being a probabilistic phenomena, you do wrong by getting to conclusions with just one sample of evidence.

All these are equally reasonable hypothesis:
+ Your friend has certain game that you failed to recognize.
+ Your friend has terrible game and he simply got lucky.
+ The girl didn’t like him really much but wants him around for some reason.
+ The girl didn’t really like him at the beginning but grew fond of him.
+ Game just doesn’t work.

Without a bigger number of samples, you just can’t discard any of those.

Any statistics expert will warn you against reaching conclusions with n=1
 

ulrich

Cro-Magnon Man
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Messages
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Aanother example, I spend almost two years trying to get a girlfriend mostly from apps.
I failed miserably.

Then a gameless friend downloads Bumble and he found himself a girlfriend in 2 weeks.

Does that mean all my game was useless??

No, that is jumping to conclusions because you see… I would have never dated his girl.
Had I seen her profile, I would have swiped left.

Apples and oranges.

Is the girl your friend found even the type of girl you go for?
If not, you can’t compare results like that.
 

Beam

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
637
I feel for you bro. After putting in all that effort it seems unfair. But you can't dismiss game based on that isolated incident. He might have gotten lucky, most other guys won't and need to work for it. It's like having a friend who buys a lotto ticket and wins the lottery. You wouldn't say "Is working overrated", because the odds of that happening to you would be so astronomically low. You would feel envious, jealous even. But you wouldn't quit working over it, that would be ridiculous. It's exactly the same situation here.

Of course it could be luck, or it could be something else. Maybe he seemed really genuine to her in his approach where a lot of other guys aren't. Him being short might have made her respect his balls even more and endeared him to her. Maybe she just wants security and he offers that because she's out of his league whereas other guys she has a tough time holding onto. She might just feel really at ease around him because he isn't a threat which allowed her to open up more.

Best you can do is keep doing what you're doing, maybe chat to him some more to find out how we was in his previous relationships. You might possibly learn a thing or two, who knows.

Has she left your city for good? Long distance is going to be hard to maintain I'm guessing.

Is the girl your friend found even the type of girl you go for?
If not, you can’t compare results like that.
I'm guessing she is based on the way he talked about her in the post.
 

Rakehell

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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502
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Gonna chime in and say you don’t need game to get a girl eventually.

Take the most sexually undesirable guy you know. Put him around enough girls and set his intentions on getting one and he will get laid at some point. Some girl will be into him.

Game is a supplement to something that isn’t ever fully in our control. (And alot of game is implementing naturally attractive behaviors deliberately)

Objectively humans are made to mate and they will. Theres someone for everybody.

I don’t think most guy’s here want to count solely on chance though. We want results when we want them so we learn what to do and what not simple as that.
 
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Will_V

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
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Jan 24, 2021
Messages
784
One of my friend recently discovered that I do day game and was fascinated by the idea of cold-approach. He didn't know that someone can actually go talk to a hot girl. However, he has a lot of approach anxiety and never tried although he came along with me a few times.

However, recently he spoke to a hot girl who was doing some charity fund raising thing on the street and all he did was talk to her like how I cold-approach a girl. They instantly hit it off and they're fucking like rabbits now. He debunked all the lessons of game and pickup that I have learnt in the past 3-4 years. This hit me hard since I have spent 100s of hours approaching 1000of girls. He is my friend and I don't want to sound harsh and judgemental about him but just to give you the context (don't judge me for judging my friend), he is 5'5" tall and bald. He has 2 friends. (Me and another guy).

This is not even a problem but his level of simping is mind-blowing. We've had several arguments about this topic and we have agreed not to discuss about this anymore. For ex: We went to a night club once and he was looking at a hot girl throughout the night and I told him either to approach her or to just stop looking at her all night long. He said "He is just enjoying her beauty from a distance". He talks about the girl that he is seeing now incessantly and puts her on a pedestal and admires everything she does. He bought her flowers the second day and took her to an expensive restaurant and he paid the bill (Later she protested that and paid for the subsequent outings). He said the waitress in the restaurant now respects him since he is with a hot girl and we had an argument about this as well. But the girl according to him is way out of his league - hot, tall, experienced, super-rich and she is all over him. So, I'm questioning whether game really is necessary?

According to him, he half-ass approached her and that too she was open for approaching since she was raising funds for a charity event (all approaching skills I learnt for several years now are debunked) and talked for a bit nothing interesting (conversation, attraction, comfort - all major game concepts debunked). Then he left, since he was feeling very anxious, after driving halfway, he realised he should've taken her number. So he went back to her after sometime and told her that he was nervous earlier to ask her number and asked her number (confidence debunked). He told her he'll call her that evening at 7PM and called her exactly at 7PM (Text game, Mystery - debunked). Then they planned to meet after 2 days but the girl called him the next day and she said she wanted to meet him the same day since she was leaving my city in a few days and had little time. So they met a day earlier and for 5 days, every evening after that.

One can argue that it's a "Fools mate" and it just happened or it's a one-off situation. I would think the same but it was not a ONS where she couldn't see that my friend didn't have game and she is way too experienced according to him. She is 23 and so not like she is in a rush to settle down either. BTW, he told me that since he hadn't got laid in a year, he was too nervous the first day and couldn't get it up and apologised to the girl many times and she consoled him. So, sex wasn't great either. They have been seeing each other for days now and they are planning to meet again for a holiday and then she is coming to meet him to my city next month. This whole thing has made me question my reality. I read a lot about pickup, I approach at least 3-5 girls every single day for the past 2-3 years and my results are worse than his.

Before you ask everyone to defend game, I would like to know why you believe he succeeded?

It's clear she's going out of her way to give herself to him - a guy who is by all accounts lacking in certain departments - so obviously something about him is pleasing her. Your first question should be 'what is going on here, is there a truth I have yet to discover that might be revealed here?'

If you have approached 3-5 (let's say 4) girls every day for 2-3 (let's say 2.5) years, that's 3650 approaches. Was there not room for you to try different approaches to see if anything else worked for you? Does all that experience add up to nothing in the face of one event you do not yet understand? If so, what have you really been doing all this time?
...
It seems to me that what is going on here is simply a guy who was in the right place at the right time, with a girl who is ultra caring, probably just had her heart broken, and wants to feel loved and love someone else without any games or complications. She has adopted him like a poodle, wants to lavish her affection on him and have him love her unconditionally.

Will she always feel that way? Maybe, probably not though. But it can work, I've seen long, long marriages with this dynamic. Do you want that though?

I'll say one more thing, which is that many guys forget the pleasure that genuine admiration and delight can effect on someone. Most people experience the world as nothing but grind and competition, but the human experience yearns for a lot more than that.

Guys who grind out daygame, day after day, can end up getting jaded in ways that girls can instantly sniff out, in ways that kill interactions before they get anywhere. They often look at it as drudge work that is supposed to pay off, but like a bullshitting boss it always promises their paycheck some other day, and they end up angry and disillusioned and worn down. And girls see all this in their eyes, and it shuts down their ability to spontaneously connect and enjoy the moment.

And then some guy that has never done all that, who despite his poor existence one day finds himself adoring some woman, and manages to go up and spill his heart out, steals her attention and maybe even her love.

Game is not a replacement for finding genuine delight in women and expressing genuine desire and admiration for her feminine charms. It is merely a means to make that love for women operate more effectively and smoothly. But when that love is gone, or locked away somewhere, it's very hard for game to make up the difference. Because a man's energy is very difficult to fake, and becomes easily corrupted by his ego and its machinations, and women don't care about his words, and only marginally about his appearance, but very much about how he makes her feel.
 

Derek da man

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Jan 24, 2020
Messages
197
It depends on what you want from "game", or how you define "game"?

If you want to enjoy a variety of different women in different settings at different times then game will increase your odds of repeated success in delivering what you went out for. It will likely provide you more women and opportunities with a higher caliber of girl. You will probably still have some success but not as often.

If you want to find a girl for a long term relationship then game will help you increase your likelihood of finding a suitable girl sooner rather than later, but you will still find a girl eventually, but it may not be as soon. Finding the right girl is like playing cards, sometimes you get a winning hand straight out, sometimes you have to make the best of how the cards fall. As @ulrich and @Beam rightly pointed out your friend got dealt a good hand where as you haven't been, or at least you've not been dealt a hand you can work with.

As said above:
Objectively humans are made to mate and they will.
That's why we as a species are still here!

I think @Will_V summed it up really well:
Game is not a replacement for finding genuine delight in women and expressing genuine desire and admiration for her feminine charms. It is merely a means to make that love for women operate more effectively and smoothly. But when that love is gone, or locked away somewhere, it's very hard for game to make up the difference. Because a man's energy is very difficult to fake, and becomes easily corrupted by his ego and its machinations, and women don't care about his words, and only marginally about his appearance, but very much about how he makes her feel.
 

climbingup

Space Monkey
space monkey
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Feb 11, 2022
Messages
106
I think these kind of one-off situations are best described as "a broken clock is right two times a day". Unattractive guys with bad game still end up with girlfriends. Girls have their own history and insecurities. Maybe something in her past resonated with him and she found him attractive.

From a sample size of 1, we really cannot offer any constructive breakdown. Just write it off as an anomaly and keep working on your game.

The truth is, guys that work on their game and themselves will 9 times out of 10 have more a fulfilling life, relationships and experiences than guys that don't. That's a fact. Forget about that situation, I know it stings emotionally but it's a marathon not a race you know
 

Regal Tiger

Cro-Magnon Man
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Messages
813
I feel OP's pain more than I want to... I don't really have much to add into the original topic but know you're not alone buddy
 

Terms

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jun 15, 2022
Messages
25
hey have been seeing each other for days now and they are planning to meet again for a holiday and then she is coming to meet him to my city next month. This whole thing has made me question my reality. I read a lot about pickup, I approach at least 3-5 girls every single day for the past 2-3 years and my results are worse than his.
They've been seeing each other for. . . . "days?" And he talks about her constantly?

Your friend is on a fast track to heartbreak. The long distance nature of the relationship may keep it afloat longer than if it were local, but trust, you won't be envying him soon.

Its not straight fools gold, it sounds like there's genuine attraction going on which means mirror neurons are working in his favor, which, combined with simp behavior, can by quite nice for a girl in the short term. Until she inevitably not only loses attraction, but it flips to her despising the simp to some degree.

If you're mass approaching to build up a skillset, you can actually end up in a headspace that's distant from your instinctual/animal attraction for some time, until you come back around. Going from novice to intermediate can actually lower results for a while. This is common in skill building, you start with beginner's luck because you're at least coming from an instinctual place, then you go through a very long and tedious struggle through intermediacy where you're intentionally removed from your instinct and overthink everything to expand your experience and knowledge, until you end up a master coming from an instinctual place with a massive foundation behind it.

"The Alchemist" is an inspiring and easy book that covers this topic as a parable, worth reading. Don't sweat the process because you see beginners luck in others. You're much further along.
 

ulrich

Cro-Magnon Man
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Messages
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I'm guessing she is based on the way he talked about her in the post.

That would be the logical assumption but I remember being a jaded newbie back in the day and getting angry at seeing some guys get lucky with some girls while I was leaving empty-handed.
Doesn’t matter that the specific girls were under my standards and I wouldn’t hit on them… I was envious nevertheless.
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
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2,841
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One of my friend recently discovered that I do day game and was fascinated by the idea of cold-approach. He didn't know that someone can actually go talk to a hot girl. However, he has a lot of approach anxiety and never tried although he came along with me a few times.

However, recently he spoke to a hot girl who was doing some charity fund raising thing on the street and all he did was talk to her like how I cold-approach a girl. They instantly hit it off and they're fucking like rabbits now. He debunked all the lessons of game and pickup that I have learnt in the past 3-4 years. This hit me hard since I have spent 100s of hours approaching 1000of girls. He is my friend and I don't want to sound harsh and judgemental about him but just to give you the context (don't judge me for judging my friend), he is 5'5" tall and bald. He has 2 friends. (Me and another guy).

This is not even a problem but his level of simping is mind-blowing. We've had several arguments about this topic and we have agreed not to discuss about this anymore. For ex: We went to a night club once and he was looking at a hot girl throughout the night and I told him either to approach her or to just stop looking at her all night long. He said "He is just enjoying her beauty from a distance". He talks about the girl that he is seeing now incessantly and puts her on a pedestal and admires everything she does. He bought her flowers the second day and took her to an expensive restaurant and he paid the bill (Later she protested that and paid for the subsequent outings). He said the waitress in the restaurant now respects him since he is with a hot girl and we had an argument about this as well. But the girl according to him is way out of his league - hot, tall, experienced, super-rich and she is all over him. So, I'm questioning whether game really is necessary?

According to him, he half-ass approached her and that too she was open for approaching since she was raising funds for a charity event (all approaching skills I learnt for several years now are debunked) and talked for a bit nothing interesting (conversation, attraction, comfort - all major game concepts debunked). Then he left, since he was feeling very anxious, after driving halfway, he realised he should've taken her number. So he went back to her after sometime and told her that he was nervous earlier to ask her number and asked her number (confidence debunked). He told her he'll call her that evening at 7PM and called her exactly at 7PM (Text game, Mystery - debunked). Then they planned to meet after 2 days but the girl called him the next day and she said she wanted to meet him the same day since she was leaving my city in a few days and had little time. So they met a day earlier and for 5 days, every evening after that.

One can argue that it's a "Fools mate" and it just happened or it's a one-off situation. I would think the same but it was not a ONS where she couldn't see that my friend didn't have game and she is way too experienced according to him. She is 23 and so not like she is in a rush to settle down either. BTW, he told me that since he hadn't got laid in a year, he was too nervous the first day and couldn't get it up and apologised to the girl many times and she consoled him. So, sex wasn't great either. They have been seeing each other for days now and they are planning to meet again for a holiday and then she is coming to meet him to my city next month. This whole thing has made me question my reality. I read a lot about pickup, I approach at least 3-5 girls every single day for the past 2-3 years and my results are worse than his.
You may perceived him as winning over your efforts but this is another sample of fallacy of seduction success, have you thought about:

- do you want a relationship were you have no levrage cause once every couple of years you may get lucky vs having the skillset to replace that girl fast if the relationship does not work out...

- do you want a relationship pedestalizing a girl and probably playing safe not to rock the boat.

-do you want to constantly buy gifts and expensive dinners in a relationship.

Finally he was able to do some things right even if you can not see it for example he went back and ask for contact info. Teevester has a post call the hit and run opener i do this a lot, this was a form of hit and run opener, ba him going back and reopening, also he show persistance, sayimg he was nervous and show in vulnerability and honesty with this type of girl i see it working, some seducers say"i would regret or hate myself if i did not come say hi" this is a weak version of that... but those are game thongs taught...

He was able to escalate properly and fuck her muliple times maybe he is fucking her good, highest form of investment and she came back for more....

Again, it could be the dudes rating other dudes look syndrome, you dont know if he was comming across more confident and naturally by not being in his head....

You dont know if indirectly he was able to absorve your own game even if weak on his part gave him a confidence boost...

Dude celebrate his success no need to beat yourself up be happy for him...

My wings sometimes get better results than me but is once in a blue moon, and they can not keep the consistancy, get it?
 

Starboy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Apr 2, 2018
Messages
460
Ur buddy got lucky bro and plain and simple. This one instance where he got with girl despite not really understanding what he's doing doesn't invalidate game. The relationship dynamic doesn't look good from an outside perspective. He overly invested a lot and probably values her a lot way than she does him.

I don't really see what got debunked. Could be he's her type and that's why he didn't have to run a thorough planned process or she's on a rebound you never know. I can see how frustrating it must feel that a guy you've worked harder than and put infinetly more effort than scored with much ease.

The guy got hand gifted plain and simple it happens to a lot of people in life. They were born into riches or had fortunate life growing up and other people had to struggle to improve and get better.

If you get a girlfriend through cold approach you'll be in a much better position over the long run than your friend because with gc you know how to run a relationship properly and what to avoid. So try to avoid feeling envious and comparing yourself to your friend. Envy sucks and it makes you feel like you're inferior.
 

J Wick

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
774
do you want a relationship were you have no levrage cause once every couple of years you may get lucky vs having the skillset to replace that girl fast if the relationship does not work out...
This.

Let's see him get this lucky twice.

So he went back to her after sometime and told her that he was nervous earlier to ask her number and asked her number (confidence debunked). He told her he'll call her that evening at 7PM and called her exactly at 7PM (Text game, Mystery - debunked).


Nothing is debunked here.

Calling out your nervousness is actually a bit of a confident move. Making an approach despite fear is courage. I've mentioned before I've asked out girls while shaking nervously and still got dates.

Not sure what text game tip you're referring to here, but timing is something you can calibrate. I wouldn't say there are hard rules here either. No "wait two days and then text". If she's ready, she's ready. I've got the number and then set up the date for the very next day. Shit, I've got the numbner and then met up with her same day. Calibration means being able to read situations and be flexible and adaptable to them. Sometimes girls are really busy and on the fence about you. Sometimes they want to see you ASAP.

Like @ulrich said, Game is a collection of tools. You could also call it guidelines. Game is not law. Just because one guy did something else and got results, doesn't mean the guidelines don't help.

This hit me hard since I have spent 100s of hours approaching 1000of girls.

Do you have a journal or any FRs so we can help you out with this?

Easy to get distracted and discouraged, but you got help here.
 
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ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Jun 11, 2018
Messages
499
I know how you feel. It sucks for sure. I'm going to agree with my fellow seducers here, but frame it differently: Your suspicion that game is bullshit is reasonable... That is, game as in whatever that word means to you.

If you've approached thousands of girls but have gotten little or zero results, then you're right. STOP! Not because game doesn't work, but because you're obviously doing something wrong.

Your senses are telling you what you're doing isn't working, or isn't making you happy. That's good. Be mindful of that feedback.

If you're getting minimal results, even after thousands of approaches, my guess is you have a deep mental issue that's causing a vibe issue. It'll come across in all of your approaches without you noticing it. Focus your attention on getting that addressed. You may need a therapist and many books to help identify the issue, and then you may need months of CBT to correct it, but that will be a much better use of your time than continuing to approach, going nowhere, and getting more frustrated.

Either way, don't worry at all about your friend, just like you don't worry about the hundreds of other guys at the club. Focus on you and keep working on yourself, keep trying new things until you figure it out. Whatever you do, stop doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
 

Shawn

Space Monkey
space monkey
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Nov 21, 2021
Messages
136
If you're thinking I'm envious of my friend, I'm truly not. Reason I can say it so confidently is, even before he met this girl I always thought to myself that he should get a GF. He used to be depressed all the time and has a lot of addictions like weed, acid, cigarettes, alcohol etc. and his reason was that he couldn't handle loneliness. I totally get that and I am in the same boat of loneliness but I have learnt to deal with it somehow or with cold-approach. Whenever I feel depressed, I pick myself up and go meet a few girls and just a few good conversations will make me feel better. But for him, he really didn't seem to have any options since he'd not do cold-approach. So, I truly wanted him to get a GF and be happy, if that is what he wanted.

Anyway, I hear what you guys are saying and it all makes sense but I really don't know what is going on. I fuck it up at some point or the other.
Someone here asked me if I can show my journal or something. So, here I have compiled a list of interactions from the past couple of months.
Also, someone pointed that I'm doing something wrong. I'll try to write my best exactly what happened to show I've tried different things.
I'll not go back too far in the past but I'll just give you a few examples of what happened in the past 1-2 months. I'll leave out all the girls who weren't interested or didn't get their number or didn't go too far. These are 10 girls who were on an attraction scale of 7 and above and still didn't go anywhere:

1. Maria: Hot Latina from Argentina, met her at supermarket. Complimented her on her eyes and she was super flirtatious. She was touching me right from the beginning and I did the same. Solid interaction. She was wearing a mask and I told her to remove the mask so that I can see her face before I take her number and she did. I tried for an insta-date but she said she was going to meet her friends soon. So, took her number instead. I did exactly what @Skills tells about opener text. I took her phone and entered by number and name and texted from her phone: "Hola Guapo ;)". She loved it that I could write so good Spanish and asked if I know Spanish. I told her I dance Bachata and told her that I'll steal her like Romeo Santos in 'Propuesta indecente' (for ppl who know this song, its very flirtatious. She was all over me). When I returned home, I texted her after one hour: Thank you :) (assuming that SHE called me handsome). *No response*. Next day she sent Hi Shawn, Good morning. I replied after a couple of hrs: Hola Linda, how was the party with your Argentinian friends? *Radio Silence*

2. Revan: Turkish girl I met when I was out during lunch break. Stopped her on the street and complimented on her dreamy walk. She was walking like she was dreaming. She was looking for a restaurant for having lunch. I talked a bit about why she is here and what are her plans etc. Then she said, we should meet. I said, yes but not for giving you career advice but I'd like to know you. Solid interaction for 15 mins. She asked if I stop girls like this on the street always. I said, YES giving her a deep eye-contact and said, if I find someone cute. (Maybe it was not the best but in the moment I thought I should say that). She put her head down smiling. Then she said she actually is seeing someone. I asked "are you going to marry him?". She said "NO" laughing and so I said, then we should meet. She gave her number. After coming home, I texted: Shawn ;) She responded immediately "It was nice meeting you". I had to get back to work and responded to this after 3 hrs "How did your lunch hunting go?" She said "I didn't have lunch. Thanks to you lol"(she meant she didn't have time) for which I replied after 15 mins "I didn't know that you'll forget having lunch dreaming about me" *Radio Silence*

3. Gisela: US girl I met in a park. I ran upto her and complimented on her hair, she was a psychologist and was superhot. I was a bit nervous tbh. So, I didn't flirt or sexualise the conversation. I wrote about this: https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/how-can-i-change-the-frame-over-text.26323/ I texted her my name: Shawn (I didn't send a winked face since I thought it won't be congruent) *Radio Silence* I don't like to double text but next day I sent a Ryan Gosling meme "Hey girl Happy Monday" *Radio Silence* (one thing I remember fucking up here was I told her I have a psychologist friend and she is in her 50s. Maybe that came across as DLV. IDK.. but that is the only thing I think I fucked up)

4. Max: US girl I met near art gallery. Brief interaction of around 5 mins. She wasn't making deep eye contact. So, I half-assed took her number. Sent her Shawn ;) and she didn't respond. I wasn't very hopeful of this since she didn't look like she was super into me. So, nothing much I think I could've done here.

5. Lucrezia: 18 y.o hot Italian. When I approached she literally freaked out. I comforted her and started laughing and she said she was scared that I was going to ask money from her. I teased her that she doesn't know to read ppl and she agreed. After that she was super into me. Talked to her for 10 mins and tried insta-date and she said she has nails appointment. Took her number and left. After 30 mins she called me and said we'll have coffee and her nails appointment was cancelled. We met up and had coffee and bounced her home. We made out. She was super nervous which I could literally see in her body language. She said she wanted everything but she is very very scared and she was shaking. I consoled and tried my best but she said, she has to go home since its late already. I didn't want to push any further and there were no buses anymore to her place. So, I dropped her off. Next day I texted her with some light teasing but she was terrible in texting and she wasn't understanding my flirting and jokes. Also she wasn't very good in English. I thought calling would be better and tried calling her after 3 days but she didn't accept the call. She started texting me after that. She said she thought about me and I'm too old for her. I played along and told her to call me daddy and I was flirting but she didn't seem to understand but she wouldn't stop texting me. So, I thought I'll disqualify myself and told her, ya you are indeed too young for me. She got totally offended and said "just cos I rejected you". I said "no, cos you don't understand my jokes and flirting" thinking she'll qualify herself but she felt rejected and sent "Yeah sure" and blocked me.

6. Maria: I wrote about this girl here: https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/feedback-on-this-text-interaction.26309

7. Krista: I wrote FR about her: FU How to seduce when a girl is resisting lover frame due to past bad experiences?
After this, the next day she double texted me a few times and looked like she was all over me. I was bantering for a couple of days but after that she went *Radio Silent*. I'm guessing she got someone else. I tried texting her endlessly. She'd respond but not agree for the date. So, I called her on the phone and we made plans to meet up and she flaked.

8. Olga: Russian single mom. Met her near the waterfront. She was waiting for her ferry. I teased her a lot since she was very giggly. She typed her number and saved with her name and called her phone. After 30 mins, texted Shawn ;) and she responded immediately "Nice meeting you ;)". I teased her with some call back humor - "Did you swim safely to the ferry?" *Radio Silence*. Next day, I texted her that I'll call her that evening and she again sent a winky emoji. I tried calling her but she didn't respond. So, I texted her saying "Our romantic love life is over". She responded immediately apologising that she had a shitty day and she'll talk to me next day. Next day I texted her and she said she was busy at work and I said, NP, we'll talk later. Teased her, "Stop thinking of me while working" and she responded "You are very self-confident :D". I said "No I'm very shy, I just talk to video gamers online" (Sarcastically. She was flirtatious. So, I thought she'll get the joke) *Radio Silence*

9. Chante: Filipino with a loooong hair which extends until her knee. Approached her while I was on my way to the gym. First time I was in a hurry. Second time I met her at the same place and discovered that she works in my office. So, I didn't take her number and left it at that. After a couple of weeks, she met me in office and told her colleague proudly that I approached her on the street and complimented on her hair. I didn't pay much attention since I don't want to shit where I eat. But she told me to send a message on office messenger. I said OK and left it at that. Same evening while going home, I met her again and told her no I won't text her but I can get her number, if she is ok. She willingly gave her number and told me to text. I texted her after a couple of hours and she said "I was waiting for your text and was wondering if you changed your mind again about texting". I was being very polite in my texts but she started flirting. I told her I don't want to meet anyone from work. She said, its all good and she has a BF and she is not looking for anything serious. I found it a bit strange that she was so open but played along but something didn't feel right and I went radio silent for a week. She texted again and said we should meet sometime. She implied that its just not a catchup. I said ok and left it at that for 4 days. I saw her at office day before yesterday and texted her saying I saw her and asked how was she? She started rambling about office politics and I wasn't interested in that. I slowly changed the topic to meeting up that we had discussed earlier and she suddenly went cold. She texted saying she can meet me after 3 weeks and in the morning sometime. I said "that's too far, I don't plan that far ahead. lets see". She felt rejected and texted "remind me if I forget" and I left her on read.

10. Victoria: Super hot Ukranian chic that I had met a year ago at dance who was all over me when I met. I thought she was drunk since she was touching me so much but later I discovered that she doesn't even drink alcohol. I sent her a reopen text with some excuse and she started engaging but she left me on read a couple of times and I lost interest. Since she had done the same thing in the past.

@ulrich @Beam @Rakehell @Will_V @Derek da man @climbingup @Regal Tiger @topcat @Terms @Skills @Starboy @J Wick @ElderPrice

This makes me feel what I'm feeling rn about my friend, game and myself. I'm trying not to compare but I'm only human not to.
 

Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
4,545
I used to have this hot female friend who would always hook up with weird, nerdy guys.

The first time I saw it, she was hooking up with this high-pitched voice nerdy coworker of mine. I was like, "How the heck did he get her? He must have some kind of secret game I don't know about!" Well, a couple months went by and they broke up after he apparently pushed for them to be more than FWB but she didn't want that.

She then proceeded to date one nerdy guy after another, each of whom pushed for something serious with her, but she'd dump. Meanwhile my nerdy coworker went through a long dry spell of not getting laid at all, and began reading The Game.

I have also had several very good-looking girlfriends who dated nerdy no-game guys before me. Their history with these men was always the same:

  1. See some nerdy guy they liked for whatever arcane reason. Often these guys had been alone for a long time and many of them were virgins

  2. Approach the guy or otherwise get the guy to come talk to her. Start dating him

  3. After a while, realize she is bored with him, or that he is getting a lot more attached to her than she is to him, and break up

If you saw the nerdy guy with this hot girl when they were dating, you would probably say, "Wow! How did he get THAT girl?!"

But then if you saw him chasing her around after she dumped him, spending years celibate trying to recapture his former hot girl glory, you would become less impressed with this guy's "secret game."

One ex-boyfriend of one of my girlfriends spent two years trying to get her back. He tried to move to the city she'd relocated to to be with her; she told him "no." Finally at one point she had a bunch of drama with me and this poor sop, still chasing after her, called her, and she put him on the phone with me... I don't know if she wanted him to scold me into behaving better or what. He just sighed in depression when he found himself talking to this guy (me) fucking the girl he wanted to wed.

One more story: in my pre-seduction days I had this boss who was about 6'4". He was dating this stripper who would bring random girls home with her for threesomes with her. I thought, "Wow, how'd he get that girl?" I figured he must be a whiz with girls. Then they broke up and he spent about six months celibate. When he finally got a new girlfriend, it was this short, round girl, no taller than 5'00" and VERY round. Once when she visited the shop, after she'd left, my boss smiled wryly and said, "The all feel the same once you turn out the light ;) "

Yeah, sure. But obviously he does not have some super secret way of picking up hot girls.

Every one of these situations I have seen where it is "average or unattractive game-less man ends up with hot girl" it is due to the girl having some kind of insecurity, and her either triggering the approach or making the approach herself upon a man she feels is "safe."

The sad part for these guys is their one lifetime hot girl experience usually ends in heartbreak, because she's out of the guy's league, the guy knows it, he puts her on a pedestal, and she gets bored and leaves.

Now... if you ever see a guy like this and he is REGULARLY smashing hot girls... or he gets hot girlfriends, and then gets them completely devoted to him... then pay a lot closer attention, because he's got some kind of game, even if you don't recognize what it is at first.

But yeah, otherwise, you will see outlier events, where a hot-but-insecure girl or a hot-but-likes-to-be-in-control girl targets nerdy, less attractive men because they make her feel safer or because she can control them.

These girls will date strings of such men... but each guy like this will usually only ever get one or maybe two fleeting chances with girls like this.

There are many more unattractive, nerdy, game-less men than there are hot girls who want to date them, I'm afraid.

That's why you learn game though. If you don't want to sit around for 5-6 years, waiting for your 3-month merry-go-round with the hot girl who likes nerds, you need to have skills you can use to reliably bring women into your life, instead.

Chase
 

ulrich

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
1,093
@Shawn, I quickly glanced over the girls you mention.

My first thoughts:
- Are you seeding the dates? (doesn’t seem like you get them excited on a future plan meeting with you)
- Texting could definitely be better (it looks to me like you ramble too much and try to raise their buying temperature without moving things forward. Try a full logistics texting style)
- Some of these girls you give up a little too soon

Also, what impression do girls get from you? Are you coming across as confident or shy? Socially saavy or somewhat uncalibrated?
 

Skjöldr

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
858
Funny, when I started out I was quite successful right off the bat. I think it was my energy. I was fully optimistic, totally happy one day, crying about some girl the next day. I banged 4 girls within my first 6 weeks of daygame and then only 2 girls the next 7 months. What happened was that I got lost alot of that energy, but my game didn't level up to proportionally to cover my loss, so it would have to be 8-9 months until I was back on track again. Right now everything is alot more tight around my game. Text game the most probably. So now if I'm feeling the same as the beginner's luck energy, I will do better. I gotta admit, I have definitely gotten more blackpilled since I started out and more self-sabotaging, I have lost my "innocence", difference is that now I can get better results despite of it. So on a day where I'm feeling good, I clean up.

This should also be a lesson to how important your energy and vibe is, which I consider part of "game"...
 
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