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That’s scary.
But anyone who says that probably shouldn’t have gotten married…the whole point of marriage is to promote high levels of mutual investment. My parents are very happy because they are highly invested in each other. Same with many of my friends’ parents.
I genuinely don’t understand why some people get married when/where/to whom they do. Of course there are comprehensible reasons like social pressure or getting pregnant, but it legitimately seems like the average NPC sleepwalks into marriage.
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I agree with this. It is like the status being married is a bigger buy-in, which it ofcourse is. Aside from that the government can fuck off out of my private life. That being said, I really want to settle down, this being a bachelor and all has been fun but I think I am one of those guys who will get married in the long run. I want kids, I want to provide them normal , good family life. Ofcourse partner selection is hugely important but lets not kid ourselves guys there are plenty good women out there, but we (or perhaps I) have difficulty with getting excited about them. That is on us. Right now I have multiple classic good girls basically offering themselves to me. And I am getting tired of my own bullshit.. I look back at alll the women I let go, women other guys would have killed for
I'm gonna break that pattern though, enough with this dead end shit. Chase article of yesterday also gave me extra boost about it, feeling of scarcity (as in time)
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Social control is good when there are benefits to everyone. What used to be a benefit for women was general safety (they still have this in abundance)
The benefits used to be for men that they get to have and care for a family. Now their families can be ripped away from them on a whim
To me it's less about going in with the right frames and screens and more to do with endurance of tests. Not just from the woman but from society as a whole
What does western society tell women on an hourly basis? Dump him, he's not good enough, go cheat it's empowering, you can have it all because you fart rainbows and all that nonsense
Those are the messages that women are constantly barraged with (and yes I am exaggerating a bit but not by a lot)
To make something qork you need a girl who enjoys being in a certain community that enforces the views you want to have. Because then she'll ignore what society says and instead follow through with what her community says to do
Which isn't impossible by any means but my thoughts are... why go through that?
What benefits are there for men to get married in the first place today in a western society?
The only one I can think of relates to whatever small community the man finds himself in. Which is about prestige, but is that worth it? I remember Chase tallking about how for corporate guys it's worth it because married men get mkre promotions or something like that
But how many of us want to go the corporate route?
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Scarcity plus what you're thinking of is progress in a relationship. Which you can circumvent marriage with children
Scarcity again. Why can't you go get a younger, better woman? That mindset will do far more to keep a woman around in the first place
Respectfully, I don't care about why she wants marriage
To me, that's like hearing from a girl all about the benefits of letting the woman cheat and oeg her man. I don't care because there's nothing in it good for me
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Interesting thread. Lots of varied responses from guys here.
I have some rather complex thoughts on marriage and a bit of a convoluted personal history with it myself.
I thought about chiming in here but I think it'd be better as an article. So I'll write that.
I will say just for simplicity's sake in answer to the title of the thread:
"Is Marriage Worth It?"
... what is the "It" you're trying to achieve?
That's Step #1 in answering that question...
Chase
I have some rather complex thoughts on marriage and a bit of a convoluted personal history with it myself.
I thought about chiming in here but I think it'd be better as an article. So I'll write that.
I will say just for simplicity's sake in answer to the title of the thread:
"Is Marriage Worth It?"
... what is the "It" you're trying to achieve?
That's Step #1 in answering that question...
Chase
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Yeah, what's the "it" you're trying to achieve?
Does it outweigh having the government inside your LTR?
I can't think of anything that would outweigh that. Maybe curing cancer.
Does it outweigh having the government inside your LTR?
I can't think of anything that would outweigh that. Maybe curing cancer.
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Here in Canada we are pretty much hitting a recession here, which when I was a teenager during 2008 and had to deal with that pile of horse shit realized that I cared more about my money then I do about most women I’m dating.
Boost off ten years later I’ve noticed with the women that I do have available to me that at this point they’ve been passed around pretty heavily, and at this point instead of being a compliment to my life they are more of a chore. In the same way for everything in my life has been it’s a work project, but I don’t feel the want or the need to go and marry.
I do want kids, and I have a very whiplash perspective where it goes, “Ah I should get married!” And where then my mind goes “But all my work! Was the struggle for fifteen years just for this?” And it’s a tough place to end up at.
I was reading a thread earlier about how this guy was bitter about not getting laid for ten years or whatever and felt he had missed out on life, I have the same idea different problem tho, where I would say it’s I never did take a vacation, always worked the extra shifts, built myself up and NOW I’m rich women want to come and shuffle up. I’d have more of a willingness to marry if they had stuck with me before success or had been there in my lowest. Instead I feel if I decided to say fuck it to the world and go back to living the low life I’d be condemned to five years of legal battles. No thanks life’s to short.
Plans for kids will be poking holes in condoms and if she gets pregnant not signing any papers.
Aloha
Boost off ten years later I’ve noticed with the women that I do have available to me that at this point they’ve been passed around pretty heavily, and at this point instead of being a compliment to my life they are more of a chore. In the same way for everything in my life has been it’s a work project, but I don’t feel the want or the need to go and marry.
I do want kids, and I have a very whiplash perspective where it goes, “Ah I should get married!” And where then my mind goes “But all my work! Was the struggle for fifteen years just for this?” And it’s a tough place to end up at.
I was reading a thread earlier about how this guy was bitter about not getting laid for ten years or whatever and felt he had missed out on life, I have the same idea different problem tho, where I would say it’s I never did take a vacation, always worked the extra shifts, built myself up and NOW I’m rich women want to come and shuffle up. I’d have more of a willingness to marry if they had stuck with me before success or had been there in my lowest. Instead I feel if I decided to say fuck it to the world and go back to living the low life I’d be condemned to five years of legal battles. No thanks life’s to short.
Plans for kids will be poking holes in condoms and if she gets pregnant not signing any papers.
Aloha
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When I first saw the title of this thread I was reminded of this article you wrote.
Why Must Men Work So Hard for Women? Are Women Worth It?
A reader wonders why men must “jump through so many hoops” to get women. Are women even worth it? Why can’t men just be themselves? Commenting on my article “What Women Want”, a reader from Bengaluru, India remarked: I read this with an open mind but was kind of let down by the final conclusion...
www.girlschase.com
Looking forward to seeing what your perspective on this is through the lens of Marriage
If you dont care about marriage or having a life partner to raise your kids together, then that's not a bad strategy to reduce risk of being hurt.
But to me this sounds like victim mentality where blame is passed on to women.
If im going for marriage, I rather take a risk for having as good of a marriage as possible. If I dont want marriage, I won't get married.
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Differences in opinion I suppose. I just believe that I can still have all the benefits of a partner and children without the risks
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Bro, this is a seduction forum, what do you expect to hear here? Stuff about pure love till you both die same day?
So far on this thread it seems like there is a fair amount of guys knocking marriage to justify their single lifestyle. For some this is likely motivated by insecurity.
I am in a similar position of remaining single while some of the mates I grew up with fall into LTRs. The worst thing I might say about these guys is that they're playing it safe in dating, but that's their prerogative. These are trade-offs to both paths: they get regular sex and companionship, I get to pursue potential sexual variety (My life is not Entourage, though, and I can assure you none of these forum users' lives are, either).
Marriage is a noble bourgeois social institution and the desirable end-goal of any serious relationship. Of course, if you are signing a legal contract with someone you want to approach it prudentially and trust their integrity as a person (so no, to quote comedian Bill Burr, don't throw it all away for some chick who did "two shifts at a Hooters").
Most girls a guy would actually want might have a brief window of sexual openness in youth only to pursue monogamous relationships culminating in marriage anyways. While a guy can have some success with pick-up strategies in his 20s and 30s, it is often an unsustainable lifestyle over the long term, rendering one the male equivalent of an aging spinster.
I am in a similar position of remaining single while some of the mates I grew up with fall into LTRs. The worst thing I might say about these guys is that they're playing it safe in dating, but that's their prerogative. These are trade-offs to both paths: they get regular sex and companionship, I get to pursue potential sexual variety (My life is not Entourage, though, and I can assure you none of these forum users' lives are, either).
Marriage is a noble bourgeois social institution and the desirable end-goal of any serious relationship. Of course, if you are signing a legal contract with someone you want to approach it prudentially and trust their integrity as a person (so no, to quote comedian Bill Burr, don't throw it all away for some chick who did "two shifts at a Hooters").
Most girls a guy would actually want might have a brief window of sexual openness in youth only to pursue monogamous relationships culminating in marriage anyways. While a guy can have some success with pick-up strategies in his 20s and 30s, it is often an unsustainable lifestyle over the long term, rendering one the male equivalent of an aging spinster.
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dude, this thread is literal just guys evaluating the value of Marriage for their own personal lives and value systems. I am not sure I see any one saying nobody should get married. Just that they are not sure whether the risks/tradeoffs that they perceive to be associated with marriage are worth the commitment to marriage (as an institution/concept) for themselves and what they want for their lives.
Literally everybody on this planet has some insecurity around intimacy in some form or another. Like, everybody's just figuring out what's right for their lives, and there are a lot of dynamic elements at play. The over simplified assumption that insecurity is said posters primary motivator for not desiring marriage. Somewhat presumptuous, don't you think?
Prudence for some might appear as insecurity to others, or vice versa. That's for each man to judge for himself.
I am not sure what your postulating on other posters personal motivations is adding to the conversation here. Care to enlighten us?
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You want a real controversial statement? the only spinsters are single fathers and single mothers. Single people in there thirties and forties, *[Even more for the upcoming generation] are well adjusted and normal.
@StrayDog
Well, for example, take the promo for Stephen Nash’s book How to Get a Girlfriend. In the promo, Nash recounts how he became one of the top pick-up artists in the world (“Playboy” from The Game), only to realize becoming that invested in the pick-up artist identity repelled relationships, which was what he “originally wanted”. I think most dudes get involved in game because their social circumstances are not serving them, and they want to achieve conventional North American romantic success (i.e. a relationship with a pretty girl with good morals). The point is that most guys vying for dating success, including those in the pick-up scene, aspire to achieve monogamy with an attractive female partner, one which could conceivably transition into a marriage.
I don’t think I ever said everyone on this thread is insecure, although insecurity might be a reasonable response to a society that puts tremendous pressure on people to pair bond. Let’s be real here guys, why are we on this forum? We are a motley array of dudes who’ve fallen through the cracks of mainstream dating success. One might be vocalizing skepticism about marriage in good faith (I am aware of the myriad ways men get f***-ed over in divorce courts, I never said a marriage should be pursued lightly) but I am also suggesting voicing skepticism about marriage might be a form of ego defence.
@MuST0BtA1NSkR1Lla
While guys who work on their socio-economic value can maintain an edge in the dating market, I was arguing more against an overtly pickup-focused strategy as one gets older.
Well, for example, take the promo for Stephen Nash’s book How to Get a Girlfriend. In the promo, Nash recounts how he became one of the top pick-up artists in the world (“Playboy” from The Game), only to realize becoming that invested in the pick-up artist identity repelled relationships, which was what he “originally wanted”. I think most dudes get involved in game because their social circumstances are not serving them, and they want to achieve conventional North American romantic success (i.e. a relationship with a pretty girl with good morals). The point is that most guys vying for dating success, including those in the pick-up scene, aspire to achieve monogamy with an attractive female partner, one which could conceivably transition into a marriage.
I don’t think I ever said everyone on this thread is insecure, although insecurity might be a reasonable response to a society that puts tremendous pressure on people to pair bond. Let’s be real here guys, why are we on this forum? We are a motley array of dudes who’ve fallen through the cracks of mainstream dating success. One might be vocalizing skepticism about marriage in good faith (I am aware of the myriad ways men get f***-ed over in divorce courts, I never said a marriage should be pursued lightly) but I am also suggesting voicing skepticism about marriage might be a form of ego defence.
@MuST0BtA1NSkR1Lla
While guys who work on their socio-economic value can maintain an edge in the dating market, I was arguing more against an overtly pickup-focused strategy as one gets older.
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appreciate the nuanced response.
I am in my late thirties and I have yet to find myself in a relationship that has such momentum and longevity that I can envision it carrying well into the later years of my life, should I live till late o'clock.
It's not that I haven't seen flashes of it, or even invested myself in what I at the time perceived to be a relationship that may be "marriage material". Though I have always been sidled with doubt when it has come to commitment to grander notions in the relationship arena.
The older I get the more it becomes tricky to conceptualize of a path much too different than the one I have been on this far. Let alone be compelled to take major steps in that direction.
Not to mention the sacrifices, and potential pitfalls that come with a thing like marriage.
Not that I am not open to it. In fact, the IDEA of at least a life long companionship compells me, even though my previous relationship experiences don't seem to indicate I am pointed in that direction.
Everything in life is tradeoffs.
Full of surprises too
At a certain point however, it is important to get real with yourself about what you are best suited to mange, based on what you know to be most immutable about your character. Challenge yourself in ways that make sense to who you know your self to be. And don't get caught up with stars in your eyes about this path or that path, because in the end things are never as we quite envision them to be, and life is always subject to change/change us.
So yeah, I will readily admit that when it comes to these sort questions I just don't know, because doubt seems to be a consistent quality I experience when faced with them. Not only a doubt in the cultural standards we inherent, but a doubt in myself to navigate this sort of terrain with clarity and conviction. As I am often flying by the seat of my pants. Some days that doubt is easier to live with than others. But I am proud at least that I have challenged myself in the ways I have. And I've learned a great many things as well. So there's always that.
Any way, all that mumbo jumbo aside. I appreciate the search for alternative solutions to what is commonly accepted as a given when it comes to long term companionship (Though some are more appealing/reasonable than others). If only for the fact that this is the ground I am standing on, and the only way to move forward is to traverse it.
And to be certain, surveying this kind of territory from where we are all standing, comes not just from our failings, but our success as well. As peculiar as that success might seem to some, or even to ourselves at times.
We are a strange lot though, aren't we?
Not sure sure I agree entirely that I have "fallen through the cracks" as it is my choices that lead me to where I am in life, and I'd say that I more so just walked out here to the fringes one step at a time. There have certainly been a complex number of factors that have driven me to pursue the lifestyle I have, and it certainly has not always been noble or glamorous. So I can at least relate to a notion that I am somewhere on the fringes of what is considered common dating practice. Sometimes I revel in sense of freedom and adventure that comes with it, at other times I wonder where in the world I'm gonna end up should I keep living this way.
I am in my late thirties and I have yet to find myself in a relationship that has such momentum and longevity that I can envision it carrying well into the later years of my life, should I live till late o'clock.
It's not that I haven't seen flashes of it, or even invested myself in what I at the time perceived to be a relationship that may be "marriage material". Though I have always been sidled with doubt when it has come to commitment to grander notions in the relationship arena.
The older I get the more it becomes tricky to conceptualize of a path much too different than the one I have been on this far. Let alone be compelled to take major steps in that direction.
Not to mention the sacrifices, and potential pitfalls that come with a thing like marriage.
Not that I am not open to it. In fact, the IDEA of at least a life long companionship compells me, even though my previous relationship experiences don't seem to indicate I am pointed in that direction.
Everything in life is tradeoffs.
Full of surprises too
At a certain point however, it is important to get real with yourself about what you are best suited to mange, based on what you know to be most immutable about your character. Challenge yourself in ways that make sense to who you know your self to be. And don't get caught up with stars in your eyes about this path or that path, because in the end things are never as we quite envision them to be, and life is always subject to change/change us.
So yeah, I will readily admit that when it comes to these sort questions I just don't know, because doubt seems to be a consistent quality I experience when faced with them. Not only a doubt in the cultural standards we inherent, but a doubt in myself to navigate this sort of terrain with clarity and conviction. As I am often flying by the seat of my pants. Some days that doubt is easier to live with than others. But I am proud at least that I have challenged myself in the ways I have. And I've learned a great many things as well. So there's always that.
Any way, all that mumbo jumbo aside. I appreciate the search for alternative solutions to what is commonly accepted as a given when it comes to long term companionship (Though some are more appealing/reasonable than others). If only for the fact that this is the ground I am standing on, and the only way to move forward is to traverse it.
And to be certain, surveying this kind of territory from where we are all standing, comes not just from our failings, but our success as well. As peculiar as that success might seem to some, or even to ourselves at times.
We are a strange lot though, aren't we?
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Bro, if you don't want a life partner, then why would you even consider marriage? And if you are not considering it, then that's cool, but this is literally a post about is marriage worth it. My view is that its only worth it if you are looking for that kind of love.
Besides, you'll be surprised how many people want to learn seduction so that they can eventually find a partner they are willing to risk marriage for.
The red pill bull is really spilling here for some resson.
That's fair. I'm sure it is possible to minimise the risks. For me personally, I rather take a higher risk because I dont consider the negatives as badly.
E.g. my "abundance mentality" is that if she screws me over by cheating, divorce, getting half of my assets? So what, I'll then make more money and find someone better.
I also imagine some friends who seem close to achieving what you describe, and that kind of partnership doesnt interest me as much. So yeah differences in views.
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