Is there rising entitlement and/or declining motivation in both sexes around dating?

[Chase]

I wrote an article a little while back about how the claim that "women's standards are way too high" is something of an optical illusion.

A bunch of guys went nuts in the comments and called it totally out of touch (without bothering to lodge any cogent arguments against it, I might add).

Are Modern Women's Dating Standards TOO High?

Many men today believe women's standards are too high. The reality is, women's standards have ALWAYS been high… or at least, women have always claimed this. Again and again of late I've seen this argument that women's dating standards are simply too high. That women expect too much of men, they...

www.girlschase.com

Based on what I have seen from a very active women's dating advice group a friend runs, I suspect if I wrote an article titled "No, men's standards are not too high" the response would be the same from the woman's niche, with women yelling that I had no idea what I was talking about, because obviously men's standards have shot through the roof.

Every time I see an actual dialogue between the sexes on these issues, I see men claiming women only want X super high standard, and women saying, "No, that is not true!" ... then women saying men only want Y super high standard, and men saying, "No, THAT is not true!"

Whatever is happening, it's happening across sexes. Yet both sexes have different perceptions of the reason for it.

I do not think it is what either sex seems to think it is.

The way I see it, there are a couple of possibilities:

1. Option #1: Both sexes have inflated standards. This is what most of the men and women who view there being a problem seem to agree the problem is. They simply can't agree on which sex has the problem (hint: it's whichever sex is opposite theirs). In this version, standards really are higher. Women all want to date billionaire male models, and men all want to date supermodel porn stars. Based on which guys I see end up with which girls, this does not seem to be the case. Instead it appears that the same positive assortative mating is happening that always has.
   
   
2. Option #2: Both sexes have higher entitlement. In this version, standards aren't higher, but a lot of people are whining and complaining that standards should be lower because they want it easier. This is the 'Karen/Kevin' version of dating reality -- where instead of bettering themselves, people are trying to 'complain to the manager' that the other sex should lower its standards (for self-serving reasons... i.e., so they can get dates). I've seen a lot of other evidence for steadily rising entitlement over the past few decades, so suspect this is part of the answer.
   
   
3. Option #3: Both sexes are less motivated to date. In this version, it's harder to get a date because on average your romantic options are less motivated to want to go out with you. Men are less motivated to ask out women, and women are less motivated to say "yes" when they do. There's some circumstantial evidence for this... the huge rise in celibacy over the past couple years (which I've linked to charts on before), the increase in both celibate MGTOWs and incels plus celibate women who all declare they're tired of the dating scene, the decline in nightlife, the burgeoning resistance to dating advice ("waste of time", "not worth it", "too hard", etc.), the decline in people searching for all kinds of tips/information on how to do better with dating. The decline in marriage and the plummeting rate of reproduction / desire to reproduce also signals to me that people do not really have an end goal for mating anymore -- and when there's no end goal, all the stuff that comes before feels increasingly pointless.

My suspicion is there is a rising level of laziness and entitlement within the population, and larger numbers of entitled men are encountering larger numbers of entitled women and they are annoying each other enough that many of them are increasingly disinclined to date.

I think what is happening is that men see women who are less eager to date them and conclude these women's standards are way too high... then women see men who are less eager to date them in turn, and conclude these men's standards are way too high... then a bunch of people of both sexes decide "Well if it has to be this hard I'm just not going to bother to play the game."

I talked in an earlier post about how as mating complexity increases, reproductive returns diminish, pushing more people to start checking out of the dating game:

As Mating Complexity Increases, Do Reproductive Returns Diminish?

Mating gets more complex as our societies become more complex. But as complexity rises, does the law of diminishing (reproductive) returns set in? (image source: Darwin Leo) Bit of an abstract/sociological article here. A little more academic than usual, too. If you'd prefer tactics on dealing...

www.girlschase.com

I increasingly believe that what people are mistaking as "the other side's too high standards" is really "the other side's plummeting lack of motivation to bother with an increasingly challenging dating environment."

I want to test how accurate this hypothesis is though... so we're going to run a survey to men and women asking them how their motivation to date now compares to where it was a year ago, and how dating now compares to how it was in the past (a lot harder, a little harder, about the same, a little easier, a lot easier).

I'm running a test now via Google Surveys to test my "people have lost some motivation to date" and "people now think dating is harder than it used to be" hypotheses.

Or I mean, hey -- am I wrong?

I'm not exactly hanging out with a lot of average, ordinary people anymore.

Is there anything I am missing here? It feels like not?

Thoughts? Stories? Anecdotes?

Chase

 

[DarkKnight]

I increasingly believe that what people are mistaking as "the other side's too high standards" is really "the other side's plummeting lack of motivation to bother with an increasingly challenging dating environment."

Interesting.. knowing you this insight doesnt come of thin air, so I am certain there is validity in this.

What I think:

A lot of people are confused and fatigued. Im above 30 now.. had been told to follow the blue pill teachings of my background until it blew up multiple times in my face.. there and then I understood that the system is failing me, there will be no savior and I had to understand the world as it truly is. That acceptance came with a lot of hurt... but in the end felt liberating and I finally started to feel I got control over my own life.

I believe a lot of people have problems with coming to terms with reality and become bitter.. while they should be happy that they can finally make right decisions. People are losing for the wrong reasons which causes the opposite of winner effect. Makes you weak and less prone to take action.

And then we have the deregulation of the dating scene.. we are seeing a rapid change from decade to decade and now even years due to mass media and increased speed of change. This has caused massive cognitive dissonance.. for instance ghosting. When I was 20 I didnt even know what that is. You just hang out.

I had phases where I noticed i became suddenly less succesful but I always reverse engineered the situations (probably after a lot of venting lol) and re-imagined and re-created myself. Then I did great again. Look at guys like Stallone they still keep themselves relevant to this day.. but these are really ambitious men. Most people want to settle down at one point.. do not want an ongoing struggle.. which dating is. I cannot really blame them , I believe you have to be an outlier to have this level of ambition.

And then we indeed have entitlement which I blame society for. Everyone has been fed the dream that they can have it all and should get the very best because they are special. Or do XYZ and the government/society will help you. Despite these being obvious lies most people are bitter and resentful about this.. they simply refuse to take matter into their own hands. But they have been TRAINED not to take matters into their own hands.

I have tried to help friends of mine who were struggling but they never really listened.. they didnt have the fire to push through, be agressive. They didnt want to sacrifice, wanted to do average but get great results.. not very realistic unless you are one of the few lucky.

And women just want a savior, but I can't blame them since they are women. I also find it irrelevant if women are entitled when you are an upper tier guy they would be stupid to pass you away. I like to come from a stronger frame.

To end this, with a very cliche Godfather quote:

Women and children can be careless. But not men.

 

[trashKENNUT]

Thoughts? Stories? Anecdotes?

This will blow your brains You are definitely missing something.
but I'm sure you will catch up because you used to be that guy, like any of those who used to work hard bad breaking labor.

First: Different worlds
Last year, I was working as a general helper, in a high-end coworking office. Assisting events setting up tables, chairs. At the event, the manager was very nice to me. My frequency of rest was beyond what I always have and what is "normal". She was super pleasant. When she gave instructions, she was careful and tact.

I thought something is odd.

Maybe she was just being nice. Afterall, this guy who is "low value", working as a general assistant, might start a fight. But nah.........
It's not just her. Her other colleagues too are somewhat this, too.

The lesson for me was tolerance levels. And I'm on the ball on this. I'm sure it is universal.

Example, Zac will not ask for more than 7 days of annual leave if I am an immigrant/minority/low value worker, while an American, Asian first world country will retaliate, create hell if it's below 14 days of annual leave.

To post modernism friends, 14 days is the accepted norm, even if you lack "value".

TLDR: Joe Biden wants to end fracking. Reality, everyone is using oil and gas. There's a lack of bridge on all levels. Lack of acknowledgement that reality exist. Lastly, lack of customer education on current state, current state to next state and new state.


Second: There is a time warp.
My older family & friends are considered = Boomers
Zac is a millennial. But according to society, he is Gen X.
And Gen Z is considered millennial or in Asia, we called them 'strawberry generation'.

Maybe this is the reason why I have told you time and time again, that I will fucking never forget who I was. Infact, my client mindset was radically different because of me.

We had a great discussion. We were both from different worlds. While he went thru suffering per se, it was not like mine. And this is not to prop me up

We noted this. "For white collar workers, if we failed, we work harder. As in making more calls, more marketing, more advertising. More content.
For blue collar workers, it's basically more production, more doing back breaking stuff".

To sum it up, if you were here and we had crackers, coffee, breads and maybe ice cream, 3 hour conversation is not long enough.

I can break this topic is so many different ways. Infact, this is one of my super strengths to getting girls because I know what reality is. Not post modernism/first world reality. I am able to separate it.

I recommend you to never forget who you were, Chase. But I don't know. It's just that as you get better, people do blow smoke up your ass whole smiling about it. And funny enough, Girlschase members were talking about this.

z@c+

 

[Chase]

@DarkKnight,

Hmm, all interesting stuff. Although... I can also say this stuff was happening when I was a newbie.

I had plenty of girls ghost on me as far back as 2006, when I really got going. I'd take girls' numbers, and they'd either never reply, or reply a few times, then radio silence. Ghosted. We just didn't call it that back then. There wasn't a term.

There were also plenty of guys I tried to 'turn on' to seduction at first. Eventually I realized I was wasting my time, because no one was interested. Didn't matter if the guy had a horrible love life and whined about it constantly, you still couldn't get him to do anything proactive about it.

I guess the question is, "Is it happening more than now than it did in the past?"


@ZacAdam,

What aspect of my hard-working past do you think I'm forgetting?

You mean you think I'm forgetting that it's hard work to get good at seduction?

Certainly I haven't forgot that. But it's hard to argue with the general trends of declines in dating, sex, marriage, and reproduction, rises in celibacy, and what seems to me to be a preponderance of negative attitudes in the space we did not used to have so much of (it's always been there, but the past few years it has seemed to me like... there is more of it?).

Chase

 

[DarkKnight]

@Chase Okay, makes me think.. could it be because you frequent bigger cities hence more anonymousity and lack of seeing someone again? The towns and circles I frequent had more social control in the past, hence repucursions or the idea of repucursions. This has really decreased of that I am sure.

All feels more commodotized in this day.. but is it because of having seen more, or the world changing (tinder etc.)? I am not sure.

 

[Derek da man]

Hi All

I agree with some of what @Chase says, but not all of it. I’m not saying it's wrong, I just have a different opinion. So . . . .

There has been a huge shift in peoples social perspective in the last 10 years, primarily due to the internet and in particular social media. I’m not having a rant at social media as it has huge positives as well as negatives. One of the biggest impacts is that it amplifies people’s opinions enormously. For example, if you had a bad night and failed to pull 10 years ago you would have a winge at 1 or 2 mates and then you go home and that was that. Now you put a post on social media and instead of 1 or 2 people listening you get 1 or 2 hundred so you are bound to get more responses which then re-enforce that opinion either because they agree or if they disagree you feel the need to defend your point and so again it re-enforces it. Consequently over time this breeds a much greater strength on your opinion. Similarly people who just read posts without replying also start to be engendered with the same perspective as a lot of people don’t make their own opinion they tend to agree with others. Consequently this has an affect on tolerance levels as @ZacAdam said.

In recent times it has become far less socially expected to follow a traditional relationship path with a couple of years socialising, then coupling up, having kids and living happily (or unhappily) ever after into old age. People aren’t prepared to put up with the ever after part if it isn’t what they want. There are now far more life style role models available which are considered acceptable than there ever used to be. Again this has been accelerated by social medial, although this could also be me getting older and having a broader set of life experiences to draw on.

Due to Covid it has currently become a lot more difficult to get out, socialise and meet new people so internet dating/meeting has increased although I think a lot of people were doing this before. Internet dating usual results in 1 of 2 responses, it even works for you or it doesn’t. Of those that it doesn’t there is a small but vocal number that voice their dissatisfaction and this feeds into my first point and fuels the situation. Those that are successful are far less vocal and enjoy the fruits of their success but they don’t usually post them on the internet, with perhaps the exception of forums similar to this.

Option #1: Both sexes have inflated standards. This is what most of the men and women who view there being a problem seem to agree the problem is. They simply can't agree on which sex has the problem (hint: it's whichever sex is opposite theirs). In this version, standards really are higher. Women all want to date billionaire male models, and men all want to date supermodel porn stars. Based on which guys I see end up with which girls, this does not seem to be the case. Instead it appears that the same positive assortative mating is happening that always has.

I'd agree with this as a general summary and although there is evidence to support option #2 or #3 I think this is probably more to do with my first point where opinions are amplified and tend to become self sustaining with a lot of people.

My firend has a saying that "everytihng changes for everything to stay the same". I think the dating game we play continiously evolves and changes, but people will always date to meet our human needs for socialising and procreation - even if we don't actually have children.


Or a completelty alternatively perspective could be that we are all simply getting older and we become a little jaded over time; further we are no longer in touch with the young generation who are still full of enthusiasm and excitement of the new dating game their life has just enrolled them in. – Now there’s a whole new debate to go into .

 

[Chase]

@DarkKnight,

@Chase Okay, makes me think.. could it be because you frequent bigger cities hence more anonymousity and lack of seeing someone again? The towns and circles I frequent had more social control in the past, hence repucursions or the idea of repucursions. This has really decreased of that I am sure.

Hmm. Yes, you're right I've exclusively been in big cities for about 15 years now.

Well that's fascinating it's changing in small towns too. That is a noteworthy change.


@Derek da man,

So looks like you're saying:

• Online echo chambers are cementing people in negative reactions ("Another bad date! Dating is really going to the dogs!" --> before you tell a few buddies and they tell you "Get back out there, it gets better." Now you tell folks on social media and get a chorus of responses agreeing with you that yeah, it's awful now)
  
  
• There's no traditional relationship path to follow any longer (which presumably leads to more frustration/confusion/inaction? That's my conclusion about its effect)
  
  
• People getting bad results from Internet dating are amplifying the echoes in the echo chambers, making it seem like the dating market is worse than it really is

(I don't suspect it's the age thing necessarily because we still have a lot of young guys in the community here)

That's an interesting counter theory that maybe there's not much different, but Internet dating in particular has led to a lot of "noisy losers" making a lot more people feel like the dating market is worse because of all these noise coming from these folks.

Chase

 

[trashKENNUT]

What aspect of my hard-working past do you think I'm forgetting

Not forgetting. Literally, that makes sense.
But as you move on to better mental states and reality wise, you have newer better circle of friends. This results in you are operating thoughts from comfort level, if that makes sense.

Comfort level is not reality.

You mean you think I'm forgetting that it's hard work to get good at seduction?

No. Definitely not

Sidenote: That itself. I need to know whether we are thinking too literally. And whether I come off wrongly because I try to bring analogy into the the topics but it came off literal because I'm limited to what you are thinking at the moment in time, and forum nature.

But it's hard to argue with the general trends of declines in dating, sex, marriage, and reproduction, rises in celibacy, and what seems to me to be a preponderance of negative attitudes in the space we did not used to have so much of (it's always been there, but the past few years it has seemed to me like... there is more of it?).

This is dangerous.
Not as in dangerous dangerous. I'm definitely as guilty. There's so many things that we are ignoring.

As example, you noted that it is very hard to come to conclusion but that itself is a problem.
- you are kinda blaming people on where they are now
- it sounds logical and literally, thus it feels true but it's not.
- internet, which is a tool by itself, magnifies this. Thus it looks bigger

In short, You are pointing out that this people are negative. But you don't realize and I certainly don't realize that we are ignoring many things.

We are ignoring the people, their timeline. We are ignoring the problem because we do not recognize that we are operating from our own state. We are definitely ignoring reality as it is.

4 types of realities out there's.

- Chase reality
- Zac reality
- the reality itself
- the reality of the arena. (Let's see who wins. Chase or Zac. Let this two fuckers fight.)

So yea...

I'm sorry that I come off as hostile in this post but to label everyone as more negative today, is fine. I done it a lot.

But we ignoring many things. And that's for sure.

It sounds, feels, looks logically correct that everyone is negative. But I like to emphasize everyone that we should always use that same reasoning that we reach to conclusion on our own perspective (if that makes sense) and your world becomes completely different.

Sidenote:
When 2 people have both difference of Phase of Life and Phase of State, it ensues chaos

GC members talking past each other, a LOT.

Example:
On one reality. Billionaire bailout is "correct". And it is. Saving employees at the bottom.
the other reality, you are bullshitting citizens that it is hard to print money but you are printing like a motherfucker. It is "correct " too.
Then there's the reality itself. Law of the jungle, who we are as humans.

Anyway, I'm all over the place. Thinking of putting it together, that's for sure. The West and The Middle East, Republicans and Democrats, and even the citizens itself, United States citizens and the arena, which is the world citizens.

All of us have different realities and then there's reality itself.

I haven't even mentioned that the different degrees and where people choose where to start from.

No one seems to notice this.

z@c+

 

[Rakkum]

I've heard a claim that men's average testosterone levels have been falling. If true, that would at least partially support the the third hypothesis. Makes me wonder whether testo levels have an effect what kind of women you find attractive. If both sexes are converging in the middle but they both still find the masculine-feminine polars attractive then no surprise people are throwing in the towel.

I had plenty of girls ghost on me as far back as 2006, when I really got going. I'd take girls' numbers, and they'd either never reply, or reply a few times, then radio silence. Ghosted. We just didn't call it that back then. There wasn't a term.

This is happening to me right now. Happy faces, smiles number grabs... then nothing. Like climbing a mountain. Have to get up this deep slope and then I think I'm there or at least close to the peak.. But, alas, no.. this isn't the peak or anywhere close to it. Looks like I have descend down this valley here that I didn't see before and then climb that looooong slope over there ugh ... Well, I've come so far, no way I'm turning back now... and grind on

 

[POB]

1) Women are addicted to online attention!
Why bother meet Mr. Tinder #13 when they can go online and have 2000 guys flirting even when they are wearing their granny panties and watching Netflix?

2) Guys don't know how to date anymore (yes, guys).
I blame this on porn, lack of game and dating apps making pussy seem like a nuisance, but guys complaining about women just don't know how to date. They simply talk, and talk, and talk, but never ask them out. Call it masculine validation if you wish, but that's what it is. Plus the horror stories I get from women who were on the dating scene before meeting me just creep me the fuck out. And I'm not even talking about game - just common sense decency and respect towards someone you don't know yet.

3) Young chicks are not that interested in having real life sex.
I know it sounds odd, but bear with me for a moment. Even with COVID, we do have biased vision because we can have sex mostly anytime we want. But young women's interest in having real life sex is decreasing.

Apps, social media and videogames, plus school and work are massive distractions that take up too much of their time! They kinda of "forget" to have sex, especially if they are not dating an Alpha. Evidence? Everytime I open my Facebook there are hordes of under 23 chicks posting heavy sexual stuff like: "I need my ass spanked" plus a photo of some BDSM, or "I wish someone did this to me" and an underwear photo of some hair pulling. This screams to me: "I can't find quality dick".

Eight years ago, when I started my journey, every under 23 I met was a horn dog in bed. They could not get enough of my junior, they asked me to take them to liberal clubs, etc. Now? They can't even do a decent BJ! The last one asked me to wait so she could change clothes and also to turn off the lights, before laying down like a Walking Dead extra so we could (try to) have some fun. They are simply not getting it in the real world like they used too, and it shows by their lack of sexual experience.

4) Lack of patience.
One bad experience is enough to want to cut out from the scene. Everything seems too easy and accessible. Why bother putting up with a chick if I can open my app and have ten more interested in meeting me? And it goes 100x amplified to girls! So it creates this illusion that "nobody is worthy", when in fact it's just basic tunnel vision.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

Historically, most women want the top percentage of men, and as a result those men become choosy, pushing the standards higher.

Those same women are not interested in the "bottom 80%".

So the vast majority of men are contending with standards "they cannot reach"

With that basic "mismatch" theory, I've found that regular guys, AFC's, blue pill guys - they see what the top percentage of men are like.

Good looking, famous, status, powerful, wealthy, great personalities - and they don't even attempt to go down the road.

Within a year, an average schlub can go from obese to fit, change his styling habits, become a good conversationalist, and change careers or a start a side business...

1. Option #1: Both sexes have inflated standards.
   
   
2. Option #2: Both sexes have higher entitlement. I
   
   
3. Option #3: Both sexes are less motivated to date.

I would agree with all of these.

Standards - What a regular woman looks like/what a regular man looks like - is very off from what regular people look like. This is very fueled by celebrity and internet culture.

Entitlement - Men/Women who don't offer much ask for much. Couch Potato Men want 22 Year Old Strippers with a heart of gold. BMI Obese women want Shredded surf God/billionaire/actors, who somehow is not busy and can take her to Paris for lunch.

Motivation - The baseline urge for men to do what is necessary to attract women has been muted by porn/weed/internet/video games, etc. I really do believe the infinite amount and availability of High Resolution Porn has ruined a generation of men (porn induced erectile dysfunction) but also reduced their desire to meet actual hot women and get them in bed. In terms of learning from their fathers and uncles, that's never really been something that was passed down like fixing a flat or some other typical masculine task. Not in America at least. Father and Son trying to hit on some hoes has never made a holiday post card.

Women obviously have urges, but they are passive in this game. So the motivation isn't in pursuit, but in building the most attractive version of herself. Always eating right, always exercising, putting herself in environments with the type of guy that she wants, learning how to flirt...etc. In my opinion, the woman's road is much longer and tougher, but the reward is much, much greater.

This long term behavior was necessary for our grandmothers and the generation before, by a lot of our mothers, women our own age, and younger - don't have the same drive to "be a prize worth winning"...

Why? Western Women/Women of advanced economies can get their needs met, they don't need to fully develop their looks/personality/sexuality.

Her mentality is "Why look cute when a law degree will earn her 160K her first year?" (no one ever reads the fine print when they see big salaries in tech/STEM/law/finance/medicine)

She can continue to put off looking for a suitable husband/boyfriend/reliable sex partner until she's "achieved" her educational and professional goals. And when she's young, there are always suitable guys around, but she'll just wait until she's gotten her credentials.

Now she's making 250K, 6 years into her career, every bag, shoe, car and condo she's ever wanted, and is considering adopting a rescue from the dog shelter, because no desirable man is interested in putting a ring on her finger.

WIA

 

[DarkStallion]

I think it's a combination of all three but issues surrounding motivation hurt dating the most.

I agree with much of what's already been said but a few things to add:

Why men may be less motivated to date:

1. Porn/weed/video games/netflix/grubhub - self explanatory.

2. Dating apps. In many places, meeting women in real life is becoming less preferable than dating apps. Although I have noticed that the fate of men on the apps has gotten better in recent years, many men get no or horrible matches. Even if you do get matches, the game is still WAY more complex than a few years ago.

3. Women who have no idea what a traditional relationship should look like. I don't know about others but in recent years I've come more and more women with no dating skill. This puts all the work on the man's shoulders. These cases make dating less worthwhile.

Why women may be less motivated to date:

1. Dating apps. Dating apps are huge in my city and they've made dating WAY more complex. Dating app makers are much more interested in keeping you swiping than finding something steady. The game has been commercialized and no longer has an end goal for many people. Although ghosting and dating more people than you can handle has always happened, it's now happening much more than ever. To pull off multiple girls back in the day, you usually needed at least some skill. Now, good lucks or a prestigious job/education can open up many girls even if you have no skill. A lot of these guys end up being horrible to date, even if they get many matches, and girls become disillusioned.

2. Declining nightlife (even before the pandemic). While many girls never liked nightlife, good nightlife keeps a certain type of player/fuckboy off the "relationship oriented" dating scene. When nightlife declines, many of these guys will enter the "relationship oriented" dating scene (not setting expectations, of course) and conning/ghosting a lot of women who want serious boyfriends. Over time, I would think this would probably disillusion many women.

3. Men who have no idea what a traditional relationship should look like. The amount of guys like this is probably increasing.

 

[Starboy]

@Chase well I was one of the people who commented on that article ,but I didn't think you were wrong. I actually agreed and said that if you're a man who struggles with women or don't get the quality you would like it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that it's because women's standards are too high. In reality it's your limiting beliefs that been built up over time and reinforced by the lack of intimacy with women in your life and the lack of action needed to reverse this fallacious thinking.

Most men who complain about women really are ignorant about them and don't understand the reasoning behind their behaviors and actions. They don't look beyond the surface and take everything they say at face value because they've never been taught that growing up that woman don't mean what they say or are oblivious to what they want or are willing to accept. To say that would be "sexist". God I hate that fucking word.

I do think it's both. Men are feeling more entitled and don't feel that they should work too hard to get a nice looking woman. They compare themselves to women and see that women don't have to work hard practically at all to get male attention with the rise of instagram,tik tok, onlyfans so why should they work hard themselves and let women dictate their self worth? Better and a lot easier to shame them and call them out for how stubborn and unreasonable they are and go MGTOW.

Women can be the same way I think. They also feel entitlement to the same extent. I think this is a good example

Screenshot-20201028-153343-Instagram

Image Screenshot-20201028-153343-Instagram hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

She said all this in a Q&A on her story. She's a fitness model who's 5'11,but explicity stated that she only talks to men who are 6'3 and above because she likes to wear 4 inch heels. She's gotten some angry responses from men most likely because they feel that she's stuck up,shallow and unattainable to these men just for being under 6'3 which also supports men's insecurity about height. She's gorgeous,in great shape at 31 yrs old and is pretty educated so it's fair for her to have higher standards ,but to have all these expectations at once is pretty unreasonable. She has a onlyfans too which deducts some points from her value. Men see something like this from a attractive woman they follow on IG and Boom! Confirmation Bias at its finest. Then they assume that every beautiful and gorgeous woman will be the exact same way and they hold that resentment towards them and get angry. There will be women who are no where near as attractive as who may verbally claim the same thing and men are gullible enough to fall for it.

Sometimes I wonder if it's truly a good thing for guys who study game if other men suck with women because the world just seems like a more bleak place with more unhappy bitter men and women then it ever was.

 

[Lover]

I definitely agree with @Derek da man about social media creating an online echo chamber. I used to be part of two other forums where guys and girls gave each other dating/love/sex advice. It was interesting to observe.

However, there was one thing I couldn't get my head around. Mostly the guys would complain that girls went for the good-looking, muscular, tall, well-endowed guy (which is guy code for "I'm not that guy") and looked pass the cute guys with "great" personalities, and the girls themselves being blissful to those facts. And what would the girls respond? "Oh I'm into such guys, looks don't matter that much as xyz attractive personality traits" (basically girl code for "I do really care about personality, but I don't know what the hell attracts me to a guy before I experience his personality")

At one point when I had enough of these reoccurring statements, the discrepancy arose: Would people that are considered "top tier" do these things? Would they be on such platforms and tell people they are good as they are, they don't need to meet the standards that other people think they must have etc.? And my answer was, obviously they don't. These platforms are for the clueless and less experienced - or rather, the average person. The "top tier" are too busy to engage in such platforms. At least, that's my theory.

So, to sum up, I think another factor at play is that we are hearing the sounds of average people echoing all over the internet... they are frustrated... they feel entitled... they want to be acknowledged for just being themselves by telling other people that they are also good enough and should get a chance... which is, not that attractive. They just keeping digging their hole deeper

 

[ljrozz69]

Hey there, let me share some observations,

I am a young man living in a big city in Europe. Most of my male friends -the ppl I know most- I wouldn't consider them as seducers. When we talk about girls its never something logical but as a fun topic -my friends don't whine about this.
Talking about one's sexual life (instead of girls in general) kind of a bit taboo in the sense that it feels like it's way to personal and theres not much to talk about (since things are fixed up as almost everyone has his opinion about this topic). They often avoid to state any interest in having sex or anything - maybe this is caused by forced pc propaganda, the older ppl I know outright tell me my gen has waaayyy less freedom than theirs.
Guys I tend to frequent the most are very, very career-oriented and they disregard their sexlifes. They stay in celibacy(not having sex) until they find a gf, the time-lapse between each gfs depends on their eccentricity.

The dudes I know that get laid consistently do thanks to dating apps -90% of their lays or so, they achieve by being on the app all day/all night. Then the guys -less than 5- that actually lay women by meeting them irl tend to do it very occasionnaly (less than 4times/year); they are decent looking/ very cool/extroverted/EMOTIONNALLY GROUNDED (the introverted guys I know that are like this tend to pursue introverted activities instead such as reading, making music, writing etc). Its never cold approach day game (in the sense that if they don't get signs that the girl like them they will never approach), the older generations seemed more prone to cold approach.

Regarding women, most girls I know through friends/uni/social gatherings have bfs. The ones that are celibate and are not having sex usually are either unattractive or emotionnally broken, and the ones that are having sex -often a lot! - they either broke up a some 2to5 year old relationship or are freaks usually being all day on tinder and getting stuff for free - I don't feel comfortable around the latter at all-.
I believe the only ones that would fall in complaining are girls that are either celibate because they aren't attractive enough/damaged goods or they recently broke up.

I feel that some ppl share this frame that, if you don't show your value publicly, you should consider yourself as unworthy. This is relayed by ads, liberal/capitalistic-ideals relayed by the media, and virtual social network such as instagram or facebook. And seeing that every one seems to have such a perfect lifes and be so good looking, people tend to compare themselves to other's photoshoped pictures. I believe that compared to other generations mine tends to have way lower self-esteem.

Klimax

 

[MuST0BtA1NSkR1Lla]

@Chase

The moment I start writing about one part or the other I’ll start going off on a tangent here and there. It’s a lot of factoids that have accumulated in this scenario.

- Divorce takes too much of a mans money. I’ve noticed amongst my social group about 80% of parents divorced, and with the other 20% being single children.

- Terrible economy, young people have less working rights and less blue collar no education jobs exist. *[Special shout out to sky high rent and real estate bubble]

I’m now working a laborious back breaking job. It’s not an ideal life, not the world I imagined when I was ten and not the way of life that I was expecting when I was early twenties.

I saw some article here about how you should make your online dating profile “outgoing! Interesting! Etc...” and at some point it crossed my mind that I’m not an outgoing or interesting person. I’m just an average joe. And that’s where dating for men has gotten tougher, the middle class has always had a connection to the average man.

High use of birth control and anti depressants among women are sky high, knee jerk reactions *[and Iget the feeling women in general are more afraid of dick then ever] trauma and some other things sprinkled in.

I could go on and on

 

[Skills]

The point i was trying to sell in the forum (when i got in trouble for the red pill stuff with the contrasts) i just think there is too much all over the place marketing to guys everywhere on how difficult and blown out of proportion things are with women (which is what i was attempting to try to fix with the red pills contrast posts)... Women are getting the same thing all over the place from the other side...

I personally can only talk from the dudes point of view, i think they are intimidated by women (pics, social media presence etc...) were they give up is just too much of an intimidation hill to climb in their eyes (but is just perception its a fake boogy man)...

Women now a days are hotter than they ever been in past generations, they dress better and sexier, gyms are packed with women working out (past generation women only did cardio, women now a days work out their asses and know how to eat and are motivated almost all of them, it used to take me months to game women to work out)

But as you know women get all the high in social media attention, but yeah as pob said matches my experience most women are pretty much lonely, the new guys and generation are really mediocre and new generation don't care about getting good with women at all... The majority of Men here are becoming like the japan dudes checking out,..

The most surprising change also is the monetization of inflated values, dating women is almost like a service industry any 6 and above can make a lot of money online (they know this and guys know this which is another boogy man)==== this in itself may decrease motivation since they know they can monetize sex (but again it is also a boogy man imho)


Just lol the whole post from beginning to end is an undercover red pill post, mods ban chase and lock the post...

We're Banning Most Red Pill/Incel/MGTOW/Manosphere Topics. But Not Because We're Afraid...!

Hey fellas, The mods and I had a chat about whether we want to permit guys to start threads on here talking about red pill / manosphere / incel / MGTOW / etc. subjects. If you're just tuning in to that, that includes things like: AWALT/NAWALT Hypergamy The alpha/beta dichotomy...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Skills]

Interesting.. knowing you this insight doesnt come of thin air, so I am certain there is validity in this.

What I think:

A lot of people are confused and fatigued. Im above 30 now.. had been told to follow the blue pill teachings of my background until it blew up multiple times in my face.. there and then I understood that the system is failing me, there will be no savior and I had to understand the world as it truly is. That acceptance came with a lot of hurt... but in the end felt liberating and I finally started to feel I got control over my own life.

I believe a lot of people have problems with coming to terms with reality and become bitter.. while they should be happy that they can finally make right decisions. People are losing for the wrong reasons which causes the opposite of winner effect. Makes you weak and less prone to take action.

And then we have the deregulation of the dating scene.. we are seeing a rapid change from decade to decade and now even years due to mass media and increased speed of change. This has caused massive cognitive dissonance.. for instance ghosting. When I was 20 I didnt even know what that is. You just hang out.

I had phases where I noticed i became suddenly less succesful but I always reverse engineered the situations (probably after a lot of venting lol) and re-imagined and re-created myself. Then I did great again. Look at guys like Stallone they still keep themselves relevant to this day.. but these are really ambitious men. Most people want to settle down at one point.. do not want an ongoing struggle.. which dating is. I cannot really blame them , I believe you have to be an outlier to have this level of ambition.

And then we indeed have entitlement which I blame society for. Everyone has been fed the dream that they can have it all and should get the very best because they are special. Or do XYZ and the government/society will help you. Despite these being obvious lies most people are bitter and resentful about this.. they simply refuse to take matter into their own hands. But they have been TRAINED not to take matters into their own hands.

I have tried to help friends of mine who were struggling but they never really listened.. they didnt have the fire to push through, be agressive. They didnt want to sacrifice, wanted to do average but get great results.. not very realistic unless you are one of the few lucky.

And women just want a savior, but I can't blame them since they are women. I also find it irrelevant if women are entitled when you are an upper tier guy they would be stupid to pass you away. I like to come from a stronger frame.

To end this, with a very cliche Godfather quote:

Women and children can be careless. But not men.

This has always been like this though ^

 

[Skills]

@Chase well I was one of the people who commented on that article ,but I didn't think you were wrong. I actually agreed and said that if you're a man who struggles with women or don't get the quality you would like it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that it's because women's standards are too high. In reality it's your limiting beliefs that been built up over time and reinforced by the lack of intimacy with women in your life and the lack of action needed to reverse this fallacious thinking.

Most men who complain about women really are ignorant about them and don't understand the reasoning behind their behaviors and actions. They don't look beyond the surface and take everything they say at face value because they've never been taught that growing up that woman don't mean what they say or are oblivious to what they want or are willing to accept. To say that would be "sexist". God I hate that fucking word.

I do think it's both. Men are feeling more entitled and don't feel that they should work too hard to get a nice looking woman. They compare themselves to women and see that women don't have to work hard practically at all to get male attention with the rise of instagram,tik tok, onlyfans so why should they work hard themselves and let women dictate their self worth? Better and a lot easier to shame them and call them out for how stubborn and unreasonable they are and go MGTOW.

Women can be the same way I think. They also feel entitlement to the same extent. I think this is a good example

Screenshot-20201028-153343-Instagram

Image Screenshot-20201028-153343-Instagram hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

She said all this in a Q&A on her story. She's a fitness model who's 5'11,but explicity stated that she only talks to men who are 6'3 and above because she likes to wear 4 inch heels. She's gotten some angry responses from men most likely because they feel that she's stuck up,shallow and unattainable to these men just for being under 6'3 which also supports men's insecurity about height. She's gorgeous,in great shape at 31 yrs old and is pretty educated so it's fair for her to have higher standards ,but to have all these expectations at once is pretty unreasonable. She has a onlyfans too which deducts some points from her value. Men see something like this from a attractive woman they follow on IG and Boom! Confirmation Bias at its finest. Then they assume that every beautiful and gorgeous woman will be the exact same way and they hold that resentment towards them and get angry. There will be women who are no where near as attractive as who may verbally claim the same thing and men are gullible enough to fall for it.

Sometimes I wonder if it's truly a good thing for guys who study game if other men suck with women because the world just seems like a more bleak place with more unhappy bitter men and women then it ever was.

^ this has always been like this since puahate days...

 

[DarkKnight]

@Skills I don't believe so. The deregulation is a new trend. Just 40 years ago at least in my culture you had more matchmakers or people who helped you from your own social circle/family. This too has been watered down. I truly believe the deregulation of the dating world is a recent phenomenon. Maybe in other eras we had similar periods I don't know, I am nor a historian, but the changes i have seen last 20 years are striking.