Low vs High Body Count - What's Ideal? cont.

[Teevster]

Do you know how rare this is?

Your average “high body count” girl is usually fucking something like 4/5 new dudes in a year.. IF she’s not got a good fb or bf to occupy her.

You can really only find that kind of dynamic in the typical swinger-type girl. Funny enough, those swinger-type people tend to be the most emotionally faithful. Ironically, swinger relationships also tend to be the most rule-bound and structured - far more than many traditional relationships.

 

[topcat]

I think that if you choose a woman with little sexual experience out of fear that she might cheat, you’re starting from a pretty bad place. That kind of reasoning is a bit controlling. I'm not going to launch into the open-relationship sermon here - I'll assume the goal is a long-term, monogamous relationship.

This supports my suspicion that many men that opt for lower body count women are doing so to protect themselves from perceived hurt and avoid the hard work it might take to shore up one’s esteem, risk hurt and face what women are honestly.

It’s fear, disgust sensitivity and laziness masquerading as moral superiority.

 

[S.S Can]

Statistics dont support conclusions; they just can tell you about the likelihood.
"Maybe"

lol

 

[S.S Can]

But if you're opting for a low body-count woman because you think she won’t cheat—because she doesn’t know what else is out there, or because she’s been shamed into avoiding sexual closeness - you’re entering the relationship on pretty unfavorable terms.

It’s fear, disgust sensitivity and laziness masquerading as moral superiority.

Infidelity was one factor out of a litany of corresponding variables that seem to indicate that women with high body count are typically more troubled. If someone were to prefer a woman with a low body count, it's not necessarily true that it would be because she doesn't know what else is out there or because she's been shamed into avoiding sexual closeness. These aren't considerations of mine personally, anyway.

It could just be because the statistics indicate that she would make a better partner.

Anyway, it seems like you guys are the ones brandishing morality to justify having a high count partner. The thread is getting pretty heated so I'm bowing out.

 

[topcat]

Infidelity was one factor out of a litany of corresponding variables that seem to indicate that women with high body count are typically more troubled. If someone were to prefer a woman with a low body count, it's not necessarily true that it would be because she doesn't know what else is out there or because she's been shamed into avoiding sexual closeness. These aren't considerations of mine personally, anyway.

It could just be because the statistics indicate that she would make a better partner.

Anyway, it seems like you guys are the ones brandishing morality to justify having a high count partner. The thread is getting pretty heated so I'm bowing out.

Adios.

I wouldn’t say I'm brandishing morality though I'm willing to admit I am where it can be proven.

What I can say is that low body count women tend to be boring and tend not to be up to the “speed” I prefer nor have the level of composure I enjoy in a woman, longer term. I’ve been with both low and high count.

i’m willing to be proven wrong but i highly doubt many of you low count proselytizers have very much experience longer term with high count women and I’d go so far as to say low count women either. Hence my claim that your position is rooted in baseless moralizing vs borne of true lived experience.

 

[Spike]

Funny enough, those swinger-type people tend to be the most emotionally faithful. Ironically, swinger relationships also tend to be the most rule-bound and structured - far more than many traditional relationships

It’s fear, disgust sensitivity and laziness masquerading as moral superiority.

I have zero respect for men that allow their wives. Mother of their children. Long term girlfriends. To get fucked silly by other men for free. While I’m at work supporting my family. Zero. Call it lazy fear or however you wish to frame it.

 

[topcat]

I have zero respect for men that allow their wives. Mother of their children. Long term girlfriends. To get fucked silly by other men for free. While I’m at work supporting my family. Zero. Call it lazy fear or however you wish to frame it.

A mighty leap.

 

[Spike]

So I guess those of us with great results in pick-up and seduction have bad character due to poor self-control? If we reflect the argument back onto ourselves, that seems to be the implication.

Of course we do. Everyone here is a whore. This discussion isn’t about us tho.

the women who tend to get clingy and needy usually have a low body count. Of course, there are also sex-addicted, histrionic women with high body counts who show no self-control.

By impulse control I mean how they respond to being around other attractive men. Her exact type even. It is unrealistic to assume your long term girlfriend will never find herself in the company of another attractive man for the rest of her life. Nothing to do with being clingy towards you. Which low body count girls will.

 

[Teevster]

I have zero respect for men that allow their wives. Mother of their children. Long term girlfriends. To get fucked silly by other men for free. While I’m at work supporting my family. Zero. Call it lazy fear or however you wish to frame it.

There is a difference between cuckolds and swingers/exchangist. With the latter you technically TRADE sex partners so it is not a pure "one way transaction".

Also cucks tend to take joy in it. I mean it is a fetish so we cannot explain it rationally. But the bull is satisfying as much the cuckold as the hotwife. So he would not see this as a "one way transaction". But yeah...

There is a difference between men who get cucked because they have to, and those who wants it consciously because it is part of their kink. Different dynamic between the two. I am not here to preach cuckolding - but this is just my experiencing as having been on the bull-side of things.

-Teevster

 

[Teevster]

By impulse control I mean how they respond to being around other attractive men. Her exact type even. It is unrealistic to assume your long term girlfriend will never find herself in the company of another attractive man for the rest of her life. Nothing to do with being clingy towards you. Which low body count girls will.

If she’s clingy and needy, it often reflects poor impulse control—possibly a sign of Cluster C traits, such as co-dependence. Some men are into that dynamic, and it can work for certain personality types.

But once that clinginess fades, there's a risk she might start seeking validation elsewhere, which can sometimes lead to cheating.

In general, women with a more “normal” or average body count tend to be a safer bet when it comes to long-term stability. High body count can be appealing, but usually for reasons other than classic monogamy—that's a whole other discussion.

Low body count is often seen as desirable by men who want to exert a more traditional kind of relationship control—something like old-school patriarchal dominance (not meant here in a politicized or judgmental sense, but rather as a descriptive dynamic some men consciously prefer).

-Teevster

 

[Spike]

TRADE sex partners so it is not a pure "one way transaction"

And what part of your girl getting fucked silly by another man did you not get? You fucking his whore doesn’t change that.

possibly a sign of Cluster C traits, such as co-dependence.

Or a common response to a man who took her virginity.

High body count can be appealing, but usually for reasons other than classic monogamy—that's a whole other discussion

Yes. Which Chase mentioned and I want no part of.

Low body count is often seen as desirable by men who want to exert a more traditional kind of relationship control—something like old-school patriarchal dominance

Some guys prefer the term old school way. Like you with pickup. Better for those guys to have a good amount of relationship experience so they’re not entirely clueless when they decide to enter one. To prevent committing the same errors men who have entered them without much if any experience to the girls prior.

 

[Skills]

Again, correlation vs causation.

I know women that have a very high body count and NEVER cheated and have been together for years.

I also know women with very low body counts that did cheat or divorced etc.

Don't think you can presume things from personal choices.

Did you also read up on short term mating strategies vs long term?

What you want from a "normal" "vanilla" LTR is someone that goes into a long term mating strategy, and stays in it;
That normally happens rather easily.

I have dated both i said this... Correct

 

[OldGuy]

One thing to watch out for is if she has an old flame she is still longing for. The author of "Julie and Juliet" was contacted by her old flame and had a long affair with him (she was married).

 

[Rakehell]

If she’s clingy and needy, it often reflects poor impulse control—possibly a sign of Cluster C traits, such as co-dependence. Some men are into that dynamic, and it can work for certain personality types.

While we’re talking psychological profiles, it pays to point out that women on the higher end of the lay count spectrum generally veer toward Cluster B traits. More avoidance, more pathological lying, more stimulation driven behavior, more sexual narcissism, more disagreeable. I’d even argue some level of sexual trauma. On average.

But once that clinginess fades, there's a risk she might start seeking validation elsewhere, which can sometimes lead to cheating

And likewise, a high stimulation/dopamine driven girl, who not only capitalizes on sexual attention, but puts herself in environments where this is likely to happen, is prone to the same validation seeking behavior in, imo, a more difficult to manage way. Especially when the novelty of a new relationship runs its course.

High body count can be appealing, but usually for reasons other than classic monogamy—that's a whole other discussion

But I believe that’s what you were leading to and stopped with here, as far as “traditional” monogamy goes. More fun? Yes. More openminded? Yes. But those stimulation and validation driven inclinations can be problematic when in a traditional relationship.

For someone who wants a traditional relationship not too high and not too low, who is consistent in her relationships, and carries the right values passively, is really the best option.

 

[Teevster]

While we’re talking psychological profiles, it pays to point out that women on the higher end of the lay count spectrum generally veer toward Cluster B traits. More avoidance, more pathological lying, more stimulation driven behavior, more sexual narcissism, more disagreeable. I’d even argue some level of sexual trauma. On average.

Yupp, I have mentioned this already in an earlier post.

And likewise, a high stimulation/dopamine driven girl, who not only capitalizes on sexual attention, but puts herself in environments where this is likely to happen, is prone to the same validation seeking behavior in, imo, a more difficult to manage way. Especially when the novelty of a new relationship runs its course.

Yes. Already mentioned this (ref: borderline personality disorder as well as histrionic personality traits).

For someone who wants a traditional relationship not too high and not too low, who is consistent in her relationships, and carries the right values passively, is really the best option.

200%.

-Teevster

 

[Teevster]

And what part of your girl getting fucked silly by another man did you not get? You fucking his whore doesn’t change that.

The idea is to swap partners. To follow your line of thinking: he fucks your whore, you fuck his. You are "square".

(Of course, that's not how most seasoned swingers look at it).

It is not for most people - I get it. But why the judgemental tone?

If you don't like swinging, , then do not do it. The vast majority of women are not into it anyway, so it should not be of any concern to you.

Some guys prefer the term old school way. Like you with pickup. Better for those guys to have a good amount of relationship experience so they’re not entirely clueless when they decide to enter one. To prevent committing the same errors men who have entered them without much if any experience to the girls prior.

Yes, but this, just like the "benefits" of high body count is a totally different discussion. Yes many may prefer the old school way, just like some men prefer dating the old school way: compliments, flowers and dinners - and you can laid that way, but it is not the best way to do it right. But this is a seduction forum, not some MRA forum.

We discuss practicality, not normative aspects on how the world ought to be.

-Teevster

 

[Skills]

That said - leaving personal preferences aside - extremely low body-count women sometimes go on a full-on “dick rampage” once their bubble bursts and they realize what else is out there. We've all seen it happen. So choosing a low body-count woman, especially in a city full of temptation, can be risky - especially if faithfulness is your top priority.

-Teevster

yes ^ seen this.... experience this thanks god i was on the other side...

it also MAY happen a lot post divorce or post long ltr women.... i called them time machine women

 

[Skills]

What I can say is that low body count women tend to be boring and tend not to be up to the “speed” I prefer nor have the level of composure I enjoy in a woman, longer term. I’ve been with both low and high count.

No necessarily true, a low body count, has a lot of reps with the particular partner, so even if the low count is 1, she fucked that one dude 1000 times... this is not correct topcat, and yes just a nitpick...

 

[KJ Francis]

also MAY happen a lot post divorce or post long ltr women.... i called them time machine women

Yep, seen a few cases

-divorcee came straight to my hotel room in the morning. After lay we went to lunch and she always wanted to count her bodies. She wrote a list and told me every story. Was at about a dozen post divorce (she cheated tail end of marriage, then went on rampage and bought tons of kinky sex toys)

-divorcee was street stopped as a teenager. Guy was too old when he called her parents' house landline so his friend would call for him and they ended up married. Guy turned into coke addict then she started exploring. Was conflicted for first few lays seeing multiple guys at a time, then got over it with experience

-divorcee married to a guy who she later realized was submissive when she found kink after breakup. Went on massive rampage after lifelong dead bedroom. Orgies, etc.

-widow husband died. Went on rampage: orgies, sex clubs, etc.

-divorcee no rampage but found rich provider boyfriend after, while fucking me concurrently. Used him for expensive dinners and couldn't cum with him. Gave me a coffee maker first night we met and accidentally called him my name in bed.

Maybe self-selection bias or whatever it's called. But all long term low count until finding themselves at the modern buffet, free to indulge

 

[Spike]

Maybe self-selection bias or whatever it's called.

It’s called confirmation bias. Where you look at all the situations where something happened to confirm your stance and ignore the rest. I already mentioned the girl I took her virginity from that then turned into a slut soon after me, on the first page of this thread. Yall are just repeating yourself at this point