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More about the WHY behind chasing closed off women.

Indian Race Troll (IRT)

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Since the discussion has made rounds recently, I've wanted to kind of share a different perspective but not about whether or not you can get these women. I want to say that for the sake of this thread, you can get women who might not initially be as warm to you. So we have established that you can get reds and whatever. Now Chase talked about in the recent article here about why a seducer might go for some of these women. Some scenarios are understandable such as being out late at night and those are the only women available.

We even talked about the "challenge" and I think it digs into some deep psychological need of chasing after what you feel you cannot have. I think in some ways, these whys were unhealthy, especially trying to "prove" to friends that you can get the toughest girl? I wonder how that is not to some degree seeking validation. Even then though, there is just that something to where if we struggle a lot with a woman, we want to somehow keep going. Like instinctively, it is a state of a guy to never be satisfied with what he has.

I almost feel like by being closed off, women earn the respect of a guy. The same guy who would take a certain women who is more "loose" and "easy" for granted somehow respects the closed off and cold woman more, he will be less likely to treat her like crap and show a degree of respect towards her. I feel as if such a woman can get proper treatment from most men by being very closed off if she looks good compared to a woman who sleeps around and looks good. Even on a cultural level, I talked to my friend from the Mediterranean about this.

My friend says that women in his country are very closed off, demanding, shallow, and prone to having a princess complex. The men as a result go to parts of Europe where women are more loose and seemingly "easier". What he told me is that those same men do not have the same respect for those loose and easier women, who are also very hot, as they do their own women because to them, it becomes a different act. They treat the loose women like whores who are meant to be used for sex and their own women like princesses who are meant to die for.

I found the whole thing odd at first but then it came to me, I was the same way too. I could never appreciate and respect the cool, open, and available women we have in front of us. It was always the supposedly unattainable "type" that lived rent free in my head lol.

I had to train myself to almost shift a narrative in my head to loving women who loved me or were less closed off. It almost came to the point where I realized the power the supposedly tougher challenge and unattainable had, how it somehow won my respect more than women I could have, and how I had to work for years to get myself to love women that were more attainable than those that were more of a challenge.

Yet I feel like most men respect and love women who are challenging and more on the unattainable side and take open, cool, and more attainable women for granted even if such a woman is very beautiful.

But hey, I want to hear another perspective on this psychology.
 

YS.

Modern Human
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And we should really note that girls being openly "Down to Fuck" and that being culturally acceptable has been a VERY recent phenomenon in human history. Basically since the 60s in the US and it doesn't really exist outside of most Western cultures. (DON'T MAKE THIS A LIMITING BELIEF YOU FUCKOS.)

There is a reason Latin dudes, Middle Eastern dudes, South American dudes are really pushy and persistent. Girls not being blase in the first minute is almost non existent. (Ofc, overgeneralizing. I met plenty of excited girls in the ME, but not the same way like I had in Germany.)

Seducers have existed for centuries, and just screening for the DTF, willing, already/blatantly into you chick is quite a luxury and is quite a recent phenomenon. (Again, do not make this a limiting belief. I crushed middle east harder than most people crush Western Countries. But the game you must play changes.)

And absolutely, if a girl is super into someone she just met, that is extremely low value for her in many places socially. And girls have wirings to make the guys work for it to see her value. (I totally understand where guys like Velasco are coming from BTW, but their POV is very limited and shallow IMO. Casanova wouldn't think like that back in the day.)

So this, only go for girls who are into you is a funny advice to someone at India for example where 80-90% of the time you have to crush the girl's blase exterior in the first 5 minutes or actively attract her or do something. Just, not fucking up the excited girl kinda system would make his game extremely low percentage as those girls would be much rarer, both demographically, logistically and access wise.

You gotta have to be an actual seducer. Not a treasure hunter.

But ofc, there is a balance.

If you're not screening at all and working on your access and demographics, you'll have a miserable life.

If you're only screening, you'll screen out everyone in bad logistical setups. You gotta seduce & attract some.

I got this Greek G who came to my country. Dude opens 50 chicks, gets 10-15 percent hooked and just doesn't follow up. Screens them out. Says they're not interested enough, etc. I'm like dude FORGET ABOUT FUCKING GREECE, Jesus Christ. You're in the Middle East. Don't look for overt interest in public LOL. Her talking to you means she's into you.

Anyway, I digress.

I wholeheartedly agree with you Oh Pry.

We don't value things we didn't work for and we didn't invest into.

Especially in massive slut shaming countries girls will rarely be super into you from the outside (even if they are from the inside) just for saving face/social programming.

So just looking for super green girls feels very limited/low percentage/low quality to me in many places. It could be taught as a technique (I'm actually trying to make my game much more screening where it was much more seduction/attraction based.) but never as a reality of attraction or in a way to "you can't get any other girl" or any other very limiting belief packages.

Hope it's clear for the newer guys reading.
 
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Velasco

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@Ys

I screen for my type (looks and personality wise) not for whoever is down to fuck (I did that at first when I was new tho. And that's how I discovered the follow).

Have you ever been in a relationship with someone who was boring as fuck? Didnt get any of your jokes. Had to pretend to be someone your not (pretend to laugh at jokes you didn't really think were funny, talk about shit you dont really care about) while your around her? That's cause you didnt screen.

Have you ever been in a relationship with someone who looked good but was was wack in bed (when compared to girls who actually LOVE sex and are amazing with their bodies). That's cause you didnt screen.

Just cause shes receptive to your opener doesnt mean she was thinking about getting fucked tonight. You know the signs: didnt shave her legs/pussy, unflattering underwear, on her period, messy room, chick brings you into her apartment but tells you you need to be quiet because her roommate has to get up really early in the morning for work etc.

All of these girls were receptive to being seduced by an attractive stranger (key. I often see the girls I go after, reject chodes before i approach them) not neccesarily DTF from the get-go :)
 
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Lover

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I almost feel like by being closed off, women earn the respect of a guy. The same guy who would take a certain women who is more "loose" and "easy" for granted somehow respects the closed off and cold woman more, he will be less likely to treat her like crap and show a degree of respect towards her. I feel as if such a woman can get proper treatment from most men by being very closed off if she looks good compared to a woman who sleeps around and looks good. Even on a cultural level, I talked to my friend from the Mediterranean about this.

My friend says that women in his country are very closed off, demanding, shallow, and prone to having a princess complex. The men as a result go to parts of Europe where women are more loose and seemingly "easier". What he told me is that those same men do not have the same respect for those loose and easier women, who are also very hot, as they do their own women because to them, it becomes a different act. They treat the loose women like whores who are meant to be used for sex and their own women like princesses who are meant to die for.

To me, this sounds like plain ol' Madonna-whore complex in men.
 

Indian Race Troll (IRT)

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And we should really note that girls being openly "Down to Fuck" and that being culturally acceptable has been a VERY recent phenomenon in human history. Basically since the 60s in the US and it doesn't really exist outside of most Western cultures. (DON'T MAKE THIS A LIMITING BELIEF YOU FUCKOS.)

There is a reason Latin dudes, Middle Eastern dudes, South American dudes are really pushy and persistent. Girls not being blase in the first minute is almost non existent. (Ofc, overgeneralizing. I met plenty of excited girls in the ME, but not the same way like I had in Germany.)

Seducers have existed for centuries, and just screening for the DTF, willing, already/blatantly into you chick is quite a luxury and is quite a recent phenomenon. (Again, do not make this a limiting belief. I crushed middle east harder than most people crush Western Countries. But the game you must play changes.)

And absolutely, if a girl is super into someone she just met, that is extremely low value for her in many places socially. And girls have wirings to make the guys work for it to see her value. (I totally understand where guys like Velasco are coming from BTW, but their POV is very limited and shallow IMO. Casanova wouldn't think like that back in the day.)

So this, only go for girls who are into you is a funny advice to someone at India for example where 80-90% of the time you have to crush the girl's blase exterior in the first 5 minutes or actively attract her or do something. Just, not fucking up the excited girl kinda system would make his game extremely low percentage as those girls would be much rarer, both demographically, logistically and access wise.

You gotta have to be an actual seducer. Not a treasure hunter.

But ofc, there is a balance.

If you're not screening at all and working on your access and demographics, you'll have a miserable life.

If you're only screening, you'll screen out everyone in bad logistical setups. You gotta seduce & attract some.

I got this Greek G who came to my country. Dude opens 50 chicks, gets 10-15 percent hooked and just doesn't follow up. Screens them out. Says they're not interested enough, etc. I'm like dude FORGET ABOUT FUCKING GREECE, Jesus Christ. You're in the Middle East. Don't look for overt interest in public LOL. Her talking to you means she's into you.

Anyway, I digress.

I wholeheartedly agree with you Oh Pry.

We don't value things we didn't work for and we didn't invest into.

Especially in massive slut shaming countries girls will rarely be super into you from the outside (even if they are from the inside) just for saving face/social programming.

So just looking for super green girls feels very limited/low percentage/low quality to me in many places. It could be taught as a technique (I'm actually trying to make my game much more screening where it was much more seduction/attraction based.) but never as a reality of attraction or in a way to "you can't get any other girl" or any other very limiting belief packages.

Hope it's clear for the newer guys reading.

You are correct, hookup culture is quite the blessing that we take for granted all too often. I for one am grateful for dating app culture, would not even be close to 100 without it! As for Middle Eastern women and women from conservative places, wait until they go on vacation! :)

I think that there is a balance to be had here though. On one hand you are right, if a girl is super into you from the get go, be weary. Chances are, most of the times, it is likely her trying to get something out of you. Don't make this a limiting belief either though, for some women, you are their type to such a degree and the time is so right that you can miss a great chance (been there before!).

My thoughts were more geared at men who have this complex at going after women who are actually closed off in a sexually free culture or even types of women that are not their successful demographic. I found it in my own psyche that sometimes I am almost subconsciously drawn to women that bring out my limiting beliefs and make me question things about myself. A couple years ago it was the hot blonde and now its a completely different group but I was happy to really dig in and fight it.

What I find is that it is that pull of unattainability almost that plays mind games with you!

I notice it even with COVID as I worked from home before leaving my old job. At first, the idea of sleeping in and not dealing with commute were great. Then I got used to it too much and it became almost to a point where I took it for granted and thought it is overrated. I think this is why the quote "it's not the journey but the destination" has such power, once you get it or get there, it loses that desirability effect it had in you.

Now the unintended consequence I find here is that as men, I feel like we almost subconsciously treat women who have the potential to give us the best times and be attainable as lesser than the unattainable. Like unattainability or playing hard to get is inviting respect from majority of men out there and you have to fight your subconscious to get past that.
 

Lofty

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Used to tell women I see myself as a sexual gourmet. It's a nice way to get sex talk going, and also true for me in the sense that I sample new women. . . the same way a gourmet chef refines his palette. Led to tasty adventures with Italian girls, Parisian women, Eastern European girls and Middle Eastern chicks, blonde bombshells, bisexual women, lesbians and more. I would also travel to other cities. . . to explore and game in different environments. Later on in my journey, once I was pouring a lot of effort into escaping boredom, I started branching out into specific demographics.

Not just because they were completely new. . . some were not. The appeal for me was because I wasn't meeting these girls very often. If there is a specific group or type of beauty that you stumble upon just a few times per month at best. Then you may want to develop the best odds of success you can get. Eventually, I realized all I was doing was just looking for ways. . . to increase my subjective engagement when dealing with women.

Lots of great introspection here, Bacchus! Even though I haven't yet encountered boredom with game, I can definitely see the positives of understanding these personal perspectives. I will certainly keep these challenges in mind as I aim for my own levels of abundance.

I am curious, though - what do you exactly mean by subjective engagement?
 
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