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Mystery Method - Revisited

Skills

Tribal Elder
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Really good interview with mystery and beckster (it seems mystery was always gaming, but was just not public), it seems he is coming out more publicly now...

Only nitpick, For what i gather mystery is still more of a "relationship" make girl fall in love and be my gf frame (the 7 hour rule is due to that), that is the only thing i cringe, he is still stuck on the 7 hours (but again he is into long game fall in love frame) i personally don't like that, but he goes for girlfriend more than for get laid per se... (still disagree with that approach).... But you can tell mystery still got it, and is still good, he is 52 now.... Funny thing is he touches on the "online topic" "being old topic" "the indian topic" aka all the recruiting hot topics we talk about and fight about:


 

KJ Francis

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latest


Ok paging @Ybatman you have gone out with Mystery.

This is rare. See young age:


Do you believe you can skip verbal A2 and C1 or are you doing yourself a disservice if wanting at least one repeat lay?

20d726_7ef5ed0a25494eb6a0db0882590ea208~mv2.png


M3-Model.jpg


T = Time-bridge, getting her contact then being apart until you see eachother again. You must bridge the time apart to be successful.
M = Move, to a sit down or lock-in spot

B = Bounce, to change venues

Askmystery.com
 

KJ Francis

Cro-Magnon Man
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@Skills re:


It is this type of discussion Karea's posts #10 and #12


Karea has single digit fast pulls
I've had I think 7 or 8 lays in less than an hour or so. But I found 4 hours to be the average for solid game, not 7 as Mystery says.



It is a question about letting escalation windows close and what that does to her in terms of your sexual mate value vs. her mental/emotional submission.
 

Lucky

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Found some old Captain Jack Notes online which have some relation to this discussion (sexual frames and escalation , Gambits like strawberry fields, structure etc)

Feel it will useful for those looking to use the updated sexualized M3

Linked here
 

KJ Francis

Cro-Magnon Man
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@Ybatman the question is actually less about A2, but more about A3 and C1. Again, there was no attack in the other thread. I am young Bruce Wayne at the temple doors in Batman Begins, seeking insights from the elders who are silent up in the temple. I wish @Vision would post every day and that @Karea Ricardus D. wasn't away somewhere listening to International Players Anthem on repeat.



First is the theory of ASD
how women, going home with a totally physical monster of yum, is going to feel a bit guilty about it
shes going to be thinking “oh geez, I really did it didn’t I!”
and you will be like “doesn’t matter” be sexual
OK… but it doesnt actually address her issue, shes still thinking “gah, im being so crazy”
This from Cosy about second gen pre-empting ASD is what I'm getting at, but it's more about post-lay retention.

Basically, if you read Flux's Halloween report, James' anal in the park report, and my street-to-car report linked above - all three seem to be relying heavily on non-verbal fundamentals for A2, and pretty much skip A3, going for the move and speed through C1-3.

Mine asked for my number after the lay, but I never heard from her after. We are walking dildos here - unknown men with no deep rapport.

Qualification is worth learning, it’s a very powerful phase and can make a huge difference. When Sinn was a beginner he went from 1 lay a month to 1 lay a week or something by adding qualification to his game (don’t quote me on the exact numbers but it was something like that). A3 is the moment when she feels you have a REAL connection with her. It very often makes the difference between a flake and a date.
This is what I mean... and also assumed to impact post-lay flake due to lack of A3 and C1
In some cases you can escalate very quickly...

In other cases, this fast escalation will cost you the set, so it shouldn’t be the default or standard / only move. And you usually shouldn’t do it in public if you want more than a blowjob AND you want retention.
See "if [...] you want retention"

@Razorjack for example was the king of qualification. He would use qualifiers as a mean to attract girls - since auto-qualifying would imply an "assumed attraction" (or "assumed high value" if you like) and indirectly convey high amounts of confidence, high amount of social value and set a clear frame of him being the prize (prizability).
This is interesting. The very act of skipping over A2 and moving to A3 conveys prizability. But there is increased focus on A3. Qualification. I am not asking if @James D should have spent an hour he didn't require to qualify her and build deep rapport in C1. But are we doing ourselves a huge disservice by not running through these steps for even 5-10 minutes to increase overall deep compliance? I know you guys are into ONS night game with new girls each week for example, whereas Mystery played slower love game as @Skills mentioned. And if James meets a traveler, perhaps it doesn't matter to accomplish the short term goal.

But my goal is not to be a flash memory of a 30-minute bathroom pull she is ok with being a distant memory. It is to be a 20-minute bathroom pull she reminisces about with a more deeply seduced heart, even for ONS. My most memorable SNL ended with her texting "thank you for a lovely evening" and trying to maintain contact when we live 10 hours away. This was a very, very fast hookup, but with an extended A3 moved after S3.
usually I would go for sex talk related techniques over DHV's, even though I do not exclude using DHV's at times. This is all meant to up her compliance (not different from the regular A2). In the case of sex talk, I would 1. convey liberal attitudes towards sex to loosen her up - which some may claim to be a comfort building technique or an ASD buster. I will not disagree here, but it is also a great "hook" and compliance building technique
Yet, mind you that during the sex talk, I demonstrate attitudes and abilities, and knowledge that frames me as an attractive sexual guy - pretty much like a "sexual DHV" (I prefer seeing it as "frames" and "framing"
And at no point do I show any or much interest until my material has done the work and upped her compliance.... - very reminiscent of A2. When delivering sex talk, I always do so without communicating much or any interest at all.
@Teevster you are still on hiatus so not expecting an answer, but this surprised me. You are sexually framing in A2 before knowing anything about her? Karea said he does this too, but I am not sure with what verbal techniques. I pictured sex talk gambits being used in C1 after she's moved and seated with you, but it seems you are doing this before any A3 qualification. Or maybe you mean lighter sexual frames before the later gambits.
Overly Linear: I do believe that from A1-3 things are rather linear, and in which case MM is pretty spot on. However, post A3, I do not see things to be quite linear - it isn't all "comfort" (C1-3) and eventually "all sexualization" (S1-3). Things are not linear anymore at this point, they are a mix of everything... after A3, you may need to use techniques that reminds you a bit of A2 if you need to up her compliance a bit more (maybe compliance is dropping for a reason), and comfort building may go hand in hand with sexualization.

I agree A2-type techniques can be sprinkled throughout (as well as that you still need even very quick solid A2 F2M interest before moving to A3 M2F; I believe this is consistent with your indirect method rewarding her interest with your interest). And I agree sexualization needs to come early (though again I thought that was very discreet in C1, not before getting her to move with you; it seems sexual framing as early as possible and seems like the key to low-LMR speed seduction).

But I thought C3 through S3 were end-game after the final bounce, when you are in isolation and at the point of no return escalation. Maybe I am viewing the S1-3 stages more as logistical steps that are referring to the point in time when her clothing is being removed, not sexual framing technique that can be applied to mid-game C2 or earlier kino and sex talk.

This thread after the below quotes it contains is also on this topic. It is about about the focused intention of the phrase "solid game" vs. fool's mate specifically as Mystery was referring to truly, deeply seducing her. @Ybatman based on your previous LR comments, I genuinely want your musings from a theoretical perspective on if you slow down green light girls you may want to increase retention odds with. It is about the below quotes - if you encounter the girl from the "new school" quote, do you take her really fast, or apply the quoted "old school view" at a deeper psychological level. Perhaps slowed to only slightly fast, not 7 hours or even 3.

Like if you meet a potential wife candidate who is at the club one night out of the year for a friend's birthday. Even if she is not initially so sold on you and more A2 is needed... What is "solid game" for the goal of pulling a girl with 3 previous sexual mates behind the alley dumpster FAST and still getting her to fantasize about your potential and CHASE you for a relationship. It is sort of but not exactly about buyer's remorse... to have deep emotional report so you are not a writeoff hookup who does not reach the few more lays it takes to truly connect her to you.

new school is basically the current paradigm that: game is all about escalating the process, the vibe, and dealing with resistance - basically sealing the deal with women who are already attracted to you.

And then we have the otherr view - a view held by a minority (but it was not always like that!) which is the old school view - namely that one can generate attraction, or even create it, and game is not just all about "making it happen", but also generating the (pre-)conditions that makes it happen - i.e. making a girl who is not attracted to you, actually be willing to have sex with you. This view puts a lot more faith in outer game and pick up techniques. We believe in the game.

I am of the latter school, and so is most old schoolers here.


This is very interesting and different from how I set it up. I go into general sexual frames (without sexual prizing), then qualify and from that point onwards it is assumed that the two of us are on a trajectory towards sex, because we have both established a sexual frame AND connected via qualification. I add the sexual prizing much later as a final nail in the coffin if you will... maybe I should reconsider that. I'll need some practice first though before I make such a fundamental shift in my gameplan, so will reconsider this in 6 months.
this is more on the use of early sex talk prizability gambits
Great. Yeah a well-delivered A3 phase creates this, too. If you do A3 right it will shift the vibe completely from... two strangers having a conversation to... a connection has been established and it's now the 2 of you together.
to take this a little further, it's about the linearity while accelerating the speed of Mystery's "love game" with girls you want to responsibly employ this type of technique with in S3!


 

Skills

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@Ybatman the question is actually less about A2, but more about A3 and C1. Again, there was no attack in the other thread. I am young Bruce Wayne at the temple doors in Batman Begins, seeking insights from the elders who are silent up in the temple. I wish @Vision would post every day and that @Karea Ricardus D. wasn't away somewhere listening to International Players Anthem on repeat.




This from Cosy about second gen pre-empting ASD is what I'm getting at, but it's more about post-lay retention.

Basically, if you read Flux's Halloween report, James' anal in the park report, and my street-to-car report linked above - all three seem to be relying heavily on non-verbal fundamentals for A2, and pretty much skip A3, going for the move and speed through C1-3.
All my lays have been like that for the last 4 years... I been saying that physical game is back have not relied on many technicals myself... I been saying physical game is back for the last couple of years... Same with more than half of the forums lay reports... But again that doesn't negate tech and second gen with harder to crack girls...i am personally conflicted cause again I have not seen the need relying more on subs and natural game like 2010... I think gen z is very afc and green... This post and methods are years old and by vets... Again, i did a survey and some guys still using second gen and frames etc... I personally have not...
Mine asked for my number after the lay, but I never heard from her after. We are walking dildos here - unknown men with no deep rapport.

Uhmm! Maybe your post lay game needs work...
This is what I mean... and also assumed to impact post-lay flake due to lack of A3 and C1

See "if [...] you want retention"


This is interesting. The very act of skipping over A2 and moving to A3 conveys prizability. But there is increased focus on A3. Qualification. I am not asking if @James D should have spent an hour he didn't require to qualify her and build deep rapport in C1. But are we doing ourselves a huge disservice by not running through these steps for even 5-10 minutes to increase overall deep compliance? I know you guys are into ONS night game with new girls each week for example, whereas Mystery played slower love game as @Skills mentioned. And if James meets a traveler, perhaps it doesn't matter to accomplish the short term goal.

But my goal is not to be a flash memory of a 30-minute bathroom pull she is ok with being a distant memory. It is to be a 20-minute bathroom pull she reminisces about with a more deeply seduced heart, even for ONS. My most memorable SNL ended with her texting "thank you for a lovely evening" and trying to maintain contact when we live 10 hours away. This was a very, very fast hookup, but with an extended A3 moved after S3.
I don't know I would work on post lay game and post lay texting.. love bombardment helps too if done right

@Teevster you are still on hiatus so not expecting an answer, but this surprised me. You are sexually framing in A2 before knowing anything about her? Karea said he does this too, but I am not sure with what verbal techniques. I pictured sex talk gambits being used in C1 after she's moved and seated with you, but it seems you are doing this before any A3 qualification. Or maybe you mean lighter sexual frames before the later gambits.
No you are right I would do sex talk post comfort
I agree A2-type techniques can be sprinkled throughout (as well as that you still need even very quick solid A2 F2M interest before moving to A3 M2F; I believe this is consistent with your indirect method rewarding her interest with your interest). And I agree sexualization needs to come early (though again I thought that was very discreet in C1, not before getting her to move with you; it seems sexual framing as early as possible and seems like the key to low-LMR speed seduction).
Again i wouldn't
But I thought C3 through S3 were end-game after the final bounce, when you are in isolation and at the point of no return escalation. Maybe I am viewing the S1-3 stages more as logistical steps that are referring to the point in time when her clothing is being removed, not sexual framing technique that can be applied to mid-game C2 or earlier kino and sex talk.
That is how i do it is my own spin... Dunno if is mm or teevester...i designed it like that...
This thread after the below quotes it contains is also on this topic. It is about about the focused intention of the phrase "solid game" vs. fool's mate specifically as Mystery was referring to truly, deeply seducing her. @Ybatman based on your previous LR comments, I genuinely want your musings from a theoretical perspective on if you slow down green light girls you may want to increase retention odds with. It is about the below quotes - if you encounter the girl from the "new school" quote, do you take her really fast, or apply the quoted "old school view" at a deeper psychological level. Perhaps slowed to only slightly fast, not 7 hours or even 3.

Like if you meet a potential wife candidate who is at the club one night out of the year for a friend's birthday. Even if she is not initially so sold on you and more A2 is needed... What is "solid game" for the goal of pulling a girl with 3 previous sexual mates behind the alley dumpster FAST and still getting her to fantasize about your potential and CHASE you for a relationship. It is sort of but not exactly about buyer's remorse... to have deep emotional report so you are not a writeoff hookup who does not reach the few more lays it takes to truly connect her to you.







this is more on the use of early sex talk prizability gambits

to take this a little further, it's about the linearity while accelerating the speed of Mystery's "love game" with girls you want to responsibly employ this type of technique with in S3!


I personally would forget about foolsmate and solid game tbh... For me personally is mental gymnastics
 

KJ Francis

Cro-Magnon Man
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physical game is back for the last couple of years... Same with more than half of the forums lay reports... But again that doesn't negate tech and second gen with harder to crack girls
True yeah I think there is so much sex positivity now that second gen showing secret society nonjudgment etc is already handled. In the packed club in my FR last night I did not see guys approaching whatsoever. Anyone who would be competition seemed to be there with a girlfriend he was holding hands with (several such cases). I can imagine girls are just yearning for a guy to show some physicality and lead.

However I think there is a difference between Mystery "method" with body rocking, group theory to use "leader of men" attraction switches etc... Vs. Mystery/Lovedrop M3 "model".

I have seen written he claimed it was one "method", but could swear in a recent interview he said every seduction follows the "model" whether you know it exists or not. For example you cannot close before you open. Even showing M2F interest when there is 0% F2M (red girl) would probably tank the seduction.

So even pure physical game could fit the "model"

A1: open with eye contact communication and physical approach step to her
A2: fundamentals establish F2M interest
A3: touch escalation establish M2F interest
Move her

C1: body language and your comfort mirror neurons cause her comfort
Bounce or time bridge
C2: physicality escalation (not foreplay yet) creates sexual connection "it's on" moment
Bounce or time bridge
C3: Escalation in isolation
Move to more privacy

S1: foreplay
S2: persistance through any LMR
S3: sex

***


Uhmm! Maybe your post lay game needs work...
Yes for sure. However I was from another city in this instance, which put me squarely in lover category sort of like cheating wife on vacation would think "oh I will never see or talk to him again, this is one time only, stays in Vegas, men in black flashed my memory". I sent post lay icebreaker, then followed up several weeks later passing through again, no answer, same few weeks after that.


I personally would forget about foolsmate and solid game tbh... For me personally is mental gymnastics
Yes this is hardcore mental masturbation. But possibly valuable in terms of lover/boyfriend ambiguity. Like does she comply with a speedy alley/bathroom pull because you're fully boyfriend disqualified... Or can you inject quasi-romance into the bathroom pull through a more emotional A3&C1 and have her see it as her strategy for a future with you.

Maybe it is not possible to fuse hardcore primal lizard brain impulsivity with mammal brain love emotions prior to the S3 love bombardment stuff. But I picture the goal to make her feel like "this is pure fate and fucking in this bathroom is actually romantic"

***

Anyways I am probably way too beginner stage to even be worrying about any of this. I guess I see it as prempting the non-buyer's remorse "happened in Vegas" fool's mate through solid game.

***

Thanks for the insights!!

Verse 1]
It's alright to tell me what you think about me
I won't try to argue or hold it against you
I know that you're leaving, you must have your reasons
The season is calling, your pictures are falling down

[Verse 2]
The steps that I retrace, the sad look on your face
The timing and structure, did you hear he fucked her?
A day late, a buck short, I'm writing the report
On losing and failing, when I move, I'm flailing now
[Chorus]
And it's happened once again, I'll turn to a friend
Someone that understands, and sees through the master plan
 

KJ Francis

Cro-Magnon Man
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I slept for like three hours at a truck stop so you guys can just ignore me lol
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
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True yeah I think there is so much sex positivity now that second gen showing secret society nonjudgment etc is already handled. In the packed club in my FR last night I did not see guys approaching whatsoever. Anyone who would be competition seemed to be there with a girlfriend he was holding hands with (several such cases). I can imagine girls are just yearning for a guy to show some physicality and lead.

^ exactly, no competition tbh...

However I think there is a difference between Mystery "method" with body rocking, group theory to use "leader of men" attraction switches etc... Vs. Mystery/Lovedrop M3 "model".

I have seen written he claimed it was one "method", but could swear in a recent interview he said every seduction follows the "model" whether you know it exists or not. For example you cannot close before you open. Even showing M2F interest when there is 0% F2M (red girl) would probably tank the seduction.

So even pure physical game could fit the "model"

A1: open with eye contact communication and physical approach step to her
A2: fundamentals establish F2M interest
A3: touch escalation establish M2F interest
Move her

C1: body language and your comfort mirror neurons cause her comfort
Bounce or time bridge
C2: physicality escalation (not foreplay yet) creates sexual connection "it's on" moment
Bounce or time bridge
C3: Escalation in isolation
Move to more privacy

S1: foreplay
S2: persistance through any LMR
S3: sex

***
^ nice you are a wizard! Excellent! yes that is how it goes... this is gold... good job...Impressive... they only nitpick is the through any lmr.... Lmr has been on my end none existent in soooo many years other than logistics and not even..

Yes for sure. However I was from another city in this instance, which put me squarely in lover category sort of like cheating wife on vacation would think "oh I will never see or talk to him again, this is one time only, stays in Vegas, men in black flashed my memory". I sent post lay icebreaker, then followed up several weeks later passing through again, no answer, same few weeks after that.

^ so this has nothing to do with "game"i had same stuff happened to me...

Yes this is hardcore mental masturbation. But possibly valuable in terms of lover/boyfriend ambiguity. Like does she comply with a speedy alley/bathroom pull because you're fully boyfriend disqualified... Or can you inject quasi-romance into the bathroom pull through a more emotional A3&C1 and have her see it as her strategy for a future with you.

Maybe it is not possible to fuse hardcore primal lizard brain impulsivity with mammal brain love emotions prior to the S3 love bombardment stuff. But I picture the goal to make her feel like "this is pure fate and fucking in this bathroom is actually romantic"

^ again if my love bombardment done right it can.....
***

Anyways I am probably way too beginner stage to even be worrying about any of this. I guess I see it as prempting the non-buyer's remorse "happened in Vegas" fool's mate through solid game.
Yes forget about that shit!... Mystery is a romantic type dude, his game is designed to find a GIRLFRIEND that he can fall in love with and she love him back... He said that ALL THE TIME, is factual... dude is a romantic..

***

Thanks for the insights!!
N/p you are a smart dude...
 

FunGuy

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^ nice you are a wizard! Excellent! yes that is how it goes... this is gold... good job...Impressive... they only nitpick is the through any lmr.... Lmr has been on my end none existent in soooo many years other than logistics and not even..
I'm curious what your process is like and also why you haven't gotten LMR in years. Are you doing anything different now than before?

In earleir post you mentioned to KJ Francis that you don't do anything technical and that you rarely do 2nd gen verbals. Are you running pure screening game where you screen for DTF chicks? You don't do any verbal a3 or 2nd gen verbals?
 
the right date makes getting her back home a piece of cake

Skills

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I'm curious what your process is like and also why you haven't gotten LMR in years. Are you doing anything different now than before?

In earleir post you mentioned to KJ Francis that you don't do anything technical and that you rarely do 2nd gen verbals. Are you running pure screening game where you screen for DTF chicks? You don't do any verbal a3 or 2nd gen verbals?
fun guy i did not say i do not do second gen. i said i have not had to use it in the last 4 years last time i used it was with mrs. skills, i am doing mainly loud clubs night game... I don't screen for dtf, that does not exist like it used to (you will not understand since you did not game in previous gens).... Dtf are on dating apps. not really in clubs anymore, very minimal tbh... I don't run screening game either (this does not exist anymore like back in the day went to online)..... I game normally just that i have not had the need to do second gens. other guys are still doing it...

he described the process there is banter just not second gen per se (no technicals):

A1: open with eye contact (edit or just open) communication and physical approach step to her
A2: fundamentals establish F2M interest
A3: touch escalation establish M2F interest
Move her (edit or gain compliance)

C1: body language and your comfort mirror neurons cause her comfort
Bounce or time bridge (or more compliance)
C2: physicality escalation (or micro escalations) (not foreplay yet) creates sexual connection "it's on" moment
Bounce or time bridge or move her
C3: Escalation in isolation or in the bubble
Move to more privacy

S1: foreplay
S2: persistance through any LMR (again no lmr these days tbh)
S3: sex


^ there are many reports like this on the forum, flux just did a couple... allaniverson did one as well

oh and james d did another one, the reason why everyone is bumping this post, it was cause the new og in the forum called it fools mate, and pissed @James D off.... i think is this one Edited. James clarified the lay report
 
Last edited:

KJ Francis

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Breaking news...

"If it's less than four - which you can do with good logistics"

"You could do it in two or three hours, and that may be fast for a lot of women, but passionate relationships begin passionately. So you can reframe it for a little early seduction - if the logistics are handled. But generally, it's going to be four to ten hours."

See 1 hr, 3 minutes.


So he seems to be implying that the seven hour average rule does not mean anything less than four is always fool's mate and lacking solid game. With the prerequisite of good logistics, it seems he is saying that even two hours can be solid game.

Another cool point on skill building - he said Style went six months with no lays, then go 70 lays in the next six months.
 
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