Natural game, anyone?

[lukeblaze]

Greetings gentlemen, so I want to take my love life seriously now, and at this moment I'm very interested into natural game, the thing is this concept seem to be thrown around a lot and it seems kinda vague, can someone of the forums help me with a rundown on natural game and guide me to some useful articles or programs? Thanks guys

 

[Skills]

The Complete guide to Physical game

Guys i decided to write this post cause if you are out on the field you notice social dynamics have changed a bit, we are going back to the future, in other words things are trending back to the past from clothes (baggy clothes from 90, shorts with sneaker showing socks from 80s etc...).... So...

www.skilledseducer.com

Bring back physical game part 2.- Featuring ijjjjji containment and 60 yoc secrets of micro escalations

Alright guys i spent the last couple of days going off on a seducer, he couldn't text for shit! his texting improved tremendously, tears come out of my eyes when i saw his texting, he has second generations verbals on point (wayyyyyyy better than me like 50 times he is very technical), he goes...

www.skilledseducer.com

The Complete guide to sexual availability screening v-blog

unfortunately the video is restricted, due to youtube retards so you need to be over 18 to watch... I keep calling @James Cruse @James D well they are both james, in my defense.... In this video i try to explain the history of screening, what it is and the misunderstanding and...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[MrVariety]

to get a good grasp on what natural game is in contrast to MM and SS and seduction boards in general I can recommend you the ebook «Book of Pook» it’s a compilation of posts by a esteemed member of the sosauve forum. It’s really good

MV

 

[gameboy]

to get a good grasp on what natural game is in contrast to MM and SS and seduction boards in general I can recommend you the ebook «Book of Pook» it’s a compilation of posts by a esteemed member of the sosauve forum. It’s really good

MV

oh yes i remember that one, its a fun read also!

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

Greetings gentlemen, so I want to take my love life seriously now, and at this moment I'm very interested into natural game, the thing is this concept seem to be thrown around a lot and it seems kinda vague, can someone of the forums help me with a rundown on natural game and guide me to some useful articles or programs? Thanks guys

TL/DR - Canned game is using canned scripts to take the girl from stranger to lover. It's external.

Natural Game was created because RSD Tyler thought that "canned game" was over.

Natural Game is using your internal game to spread an emotional contagion to other people. (you yawn, and others yawn by reaction, not by thought)

It's mostly about breaking down your own self imposed/society imposed rules about what you can say and do. And when other people see your freedom, they free themselves from their own internal prisons.

If you're at a protest, one person smashing a car window, gives other people permission to smash lots of windows.

In pick up, if you're saying whatever you want and being hilarious/fun/energetic with it, girls want to be around that, so that they too can say whatever the want and get those good feelings.

The long part

Natural Game - at the time of introduction - wasn't well defined, but it really meant that you talked to a girl with no routines/tricks or canned dialogue. You talk to the girl "naturally".

The question you are probably asking in 2025 is Why would anyone not talk to a girl "naturally"?
Why talk to a girl artificially?

The answer is that newbs have a tendency to go into an approach with ZERO idea about what to say, and where to take the interaction. So even they've been in the gym, got their fashion right, have friends, have pre-selection, no approach anxiety - they would just say

"Hi...my name is
What's your name..."

and then just not know what to say next, or where to take the interaction.

So canned game - take someone else's script/routines/lines that were FIELD TESTED - would take the burden off of the newb player.

He would know what to say to make the chick laugh, to get her provoked, to get her thinking things he wanted her to think about, to get and hold her attention.

And then he could use more technique to get her from merely curious about this random guy, to seriously interested in what this guy was about.

A field tested piece of canned game, what the hell is that?

The Knock, Knock Joke

As an American, if I talk to some random American, of any age, any color, any ethnicity, any gender, any orientation...and I say

"Knock, Knock" (*as in someone is knocking on the door)

They will 99 times out of 100 say, "Who's there?"

With kids, a "knock knock" joke almost ALWAYS engages. (though I wonder if people even knock on each others doors these days...)

Back in the "good old days" of the PUA community there were thousands of guys trying out new and different things, and finding little tricks, lines, tips, stories, and "gambits" that always engaged chicks. It always got the same reaction every time it was used.

That was the golden age, because pretty much everything talked about was focused and you could go out tonight to your local bar, and try it out for yourself.

The famous canned scripts from pick up

• Who Lies more, men or women? (Stolen from Chris Rock)
• 3's and 7s' (Do you believe in ESP? I think I might have it. Think of a number between 1 and 4, is it 3? Think of a number between 1 and 10. Is it 7)

Those still work today.

So you'd have guys either learn a few pieces of material for each of the 3 main phases of the seduction, and those would get them from random strangers to lovers in about 2-7 hours. Some guys would learn tons of material and just stack them one after another. (especially in the "attraction" stage). When guys weren't getting the right reactions, they would "plow" - more material, and something would eventually "hook".

He could be a "flow chart" player. Just follow the arrows and profit.

And it worked*.

For a good little while, when the PUA community was really underground - canned scripts worked WELL. The girls had never heard these lines, jokes, and stories before - and whoever said them (with the right timing and delivery and body language) - had girls HOOKED on him. From there it was just a matter of timing/delivering the escalation and some logistics.

*Did it work specifically because the words said and the delivery? That's always a big topic of debate - is PUA a placebo or not? Don't debate that with me, here.

I can't explain to you how well this worked in 2025, because the world is so much different than it was back then.

Then The Game came out, and the "villain" of The Game (RSD Tyler) had his reputation destroyed. That villain came back out with Natural Game.

Natural Game isn't really "the game that naturals use", or "just talking to girls "naturally" - it's mostly

1. About NOT using scripts,
2. Using your own personal emotions and energy to make the girl feel what you want her to feel
3. Using your own personal emotions and energy to make the girl feel what she wants to feel

A better phrase might be "natural pathway". Because for the most part, "natural" game is very unnatural for people trying to learn it.

What does natural game look like?

On the dance floor, it's the guy that can dance well enough, but he's feeling the music the most.

This is the typical example of natural game on the "dance" floor

Innovations theory

1. the first guy is the revolutionary
2. the second guy is the early adopter
3. the next set of people are the early majority
4. then the late majority
5. and finally the laggards

Now If you watch all 3 minutes of the video - it goes from dancing to just standing in the same area and raising your hands.

At the bar, it's the guy yapping to the bartender, the waitress, anybody that's next to him, and just taking that same social energy and talking to any girl that passes by. (I had a pal that used to do this, and I'd call it alligator game. He's in the water rapping, and whatever Zebra or Gazelle happened to pass by would get chomped on and couldn't escape)

The exact subject that he's talking about doesn't matter.
There's no "punch line".

He's just into talking and being social, and naturally draws people in.

So if you understand human psychology at a practical level, you'll see this all the time.
One person will somehow become the center of attention.

• If you're at a kid's birthday party, it's usually the most rambunctious kid.
• If you're at a wedding, it should be the bride, and there's a lowkey competition among the women at the wedding, to be the center of attention.
• Women at the bars and clubs try to manufacture "center of attention" through 1) clothing, 2) dance.
• Men try to do the same with 1) clothing, 2) other guys around them.
  • They both fail in some respects, but all of this is "natural" game. Seeking attention, and trying to create interactions based on that attention.

The true life of the party can be seen by others, their actions can be seen by others, their effect on others can be seen - and the audience wants that to happen to them next. You, the watcher, want a piece of that energy. You want to be that energy.

But you can't. You can't really step outside of yourself and be "in the moment".

You're stuck in your head.

You care what others might think of you.
Being cool and social is not You.

But when the life of the party comes into your zone and interacts - they're giving you permission to be social, to talk to others, to joke, to tell stories.

This entity, external to you, comes into contact with you, and then changes you, your behavior...at least for a moment.

How does the life of the party become the life of the party?

What's inside of them that lets them be social, that lets them be a leader, be a winner?

How does the life of the party generate that internal thing?

That's what natural game focuses on.

For Tyler, he read a lot of Tony Robbins and Eckhart Tolle. (and probably some other stuff)

And if you've ever seen him in person, he's literally that kid that's running around the venue, that won't shut up, always getting into hijinx, kinda annoying but kinda endearing.

*When I see Tyler now, what I see is autism, what I see now is ignoring the unwritten social rules and the off reactions to his behavior, but that's a different story.

Tyler gets that way, because he gets into "state". He's at the point now, where if you see him in public, he's probably always "on". And maybe he is always "on". But he wasn't always this confident guy that brings the vibe up in whatever room he's in.

In terms of "state" - Mystery (canned game guy) talked about this as getting into a talkative state, and a big part of the "canned game" era was talking to people before you started "gaming".

Tyler, in my view, gets into state by talking to others, but by talking to his wings, BUT also by focusing on his body and his mind.

A lot of the "woo woo" aspect of natural game comes from the fact that you're generating "state" internally.

Any times folks start yapping about "mind state" and "meditation" and "low vibration/high vibration" - I tune out. I'm a STEM guy at heart, and all that stuff is just pseudo-science, crystals, chakrahs, dream catchers, and patchouli'd white girls with dreadlocks that need to take a shower. I've turned the corner on being so judgmental...

Going back to the one guy starting the dance party. THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE HE WAS ON DRUGS.

And the drugs, the alcohol, loosened up the internal controls on his behavior...and that willingness to be free and nothing happening to him - that drew people in. (some of whom were on drugs, but a lot of whom were not)

But a big key of Tolle, Tony Robinson, and then Tyler is that this viral social being is inside all of us.

Many of us have had times in our life when we were "in the flow" when it came to socializing.
We don't remember anything we said or did, but we remember the fun and the feelings.

The promise of Natural Game is that you can access that person, that other you, whenever you want.

And that other you, the fun and social guy, takes over and talks to girls, says whatever, escalates whenever, and then bags chicks.

This is a lot of the reason why people listen to music, drink alcohol, smoke weed, take drugs, do extreme sports/combat sports - is to access this "other guy" that's within them. That other guy can break free of the "thinking" and "self conscious" guy that's in charge.

With natural game, Part of getting the "animal" inside is letting the "guy in charge" take social risks, and seeing that nothing happens.

The "outer you" lets the "inner beast" out little by little by having the "outer you" act a little bit like "the beast".

Enter Julien.

Julien, according to himself, was way way below the average frustrated chump.

Julien came up with/or at least showed a lot of guys how "trangressing" the social norms and rules, they could free themselves.

My favorite one is him and another RSD instructor on some street corner, talking to young chicks about salmon?

They're totally in sync, and their making little jumps, saying "I'm a fish, I'm a fish, I'm a fish". It's totally ridiculous, and the girls were totally into it.

But it was this breaking of the social prison in his mind, that had him basically harassing women in Japan, and that landed him on CNN, and basically lead to RSD deleting a lot of their good stuff on Youtube, and then all of their stuff, and then their forum, and finally into the crypto-PUA guys they are now. There was probably some actionable stuff in their videos, but the cultural tides were changing.

A lot of the other PUA guys from that era mix and match "natural game" and "canned game".

Keep in mind, that there were/are lots of different styles and philosophies outside of natural vs canned.

WIA

 

[lukeblaze]

TL/DR - Canned game is using canned scripts to take the girl from stranger to lover. It's external.

Natural Game was created because RSD Tyler thought that "canned game" was over.

Natural Game is using your internal game to spread an emotional contagion to other people. (you yawn, and others yawn by reaction, not by thought)

It's mostly about breaking down your own self imposed/society imposed rules about what you can say and do. And when other people see your freedom, they free themselves from their own internal prisons.

If you're at a protest, one person smashing a car window, gives other people permission to smash lots of windows.

In pick up, if you're saying whatever you want and being hilarious/fun/energetic with it, girls want to be around that, so that they too can say whatever the want and get those good feelings.

The long part

Natural Game - at the time of introduction - wasn't well defined, but it really meant that you talked to a girl with no routines/tricks or canned dialogue. You talk to the girl "naturally".

The question you are probably asking in 2025 is Why would anyone not talk to a girl "naturally"?
Why talk to a girl artificially?

The answer is that newbs have a tendency to go into an approach with ZERO idea about what to say, and where to take the interaction. So even they've been in the gym, got their fashion right, have friends, have pre-selection, no approach anxiety - they would just say

"Hi...my name is
What's your name..."

and then just not know what to say next, or where to take the interaction.

So canned game - take someone else's script/routines/lines that were FIELD TESTED - would take the burden off of the newb player.

He would know what to say to make the chick laugh, to get her provoked, to get her thinking things he wanted her to think about, to get and hold her attention.

And then he could use more technique to get her from merely curious about this random guy, to seriously interested in what this guy was about.

A field tested piece of canned game, what the hell is that?

The Knock, Knock Joke



With kids, a "knock knock" joke almost ALWAYS engages. (though I wonder if people even knock on each others doors these days...)

Back in the "good old days" of the PUA community there were thousands of guys trying out new and different things, and finding little tricks, lines, tips, stories, and "gambits" that always engaged chicks. It always got the same reaction every time it was used.

That was the golden age, because pretty much everything talked about was focused and you could go out tonight to your local bar, and try it out for yourself.

The famous canned scripts from pick up

• Who Lies more, men or women? (Stolen from Chris Rock)
• 3's and 7s' (Do you believe in ESP? I think I might have it. Think of a number between 1 and 4, is it 3? Think of a number between 1 and 10. Is it 7)

Those still work today.

So you'd have guys either learn a few pieces of material for each of the 3 main phases of the seduction, and those would get them from random strangers to lovers in about 2-7 hours. Some guys would learn tons of material and just stack them one after another. (especially in the "attraction" stage). When guys weren't getting the right reactions, they would "plow" - more material, and something would eventually "hook".

He could be a "flow chart" player. Just follow the arrows and profit.

And it worked*.

For a good little while, when the PUA community was really underground - canned scripts worked WELL. The girls had never heard these lines, jokes, and stories before - and whoever said them (with the right timing and delivery and body language) - had girls HOOKED on him. From there it was just a matter of timing/delivering the escalation and some logistics.

*Did it work specifically because the words said and the delivery? That's always a big topic of debate - is PUA a placebo or not? Don't debate that with me, here.

I can't explain to you how well this worked in 2025, because the world is so much different than it was back then.

Then The Game came out, and the "villain" of The Game (RSD Tyler) had his reputation destroyed. That villain came back out with Natural Game.

Natural Game isn't really "the game that naturals use", or "just talking to girls "naturally" - it's mostly

1. About NOT using scripts,
2. Using your own personal emotions and energy to make the girl feel what you want her to feel
3. Using your own personal emotions and energy to make the girl feel what she wants to feel

A better phrase might be "natural pathway". Because for the most part, "natural" game is very unnatural for people trying to learn it.

What does natural game look like?

On the dance floor, it's the guy that can dance well enough, but he's feeling the music the most.

This is the typical example of natural game on the "dance" floor

Innovations theory

1. the first guy is the revolutionary
2. the second guy is the early adopter
3. the next set of people are the early majority
4. then the late majority
5. and finally the laggards

Now If you watch all 3 minutes of the video - it goes from dancing to just standing in the same area and raising your hands.

At the bar, it's the guy yapping to the bartender, the waitress, anybody that's next to him, and just taking that same social energy and talking to any girl that passes by. (I had a pal that used to do this, and I'd call it alligator game. He's in the water rapping, and whatever Zebra or Gazelle happened to pass by would get chomped on and couldn't escape)

The exact subject that he's talking about doesn't matter.
There's no "punch line".

He's just into talking and being social, and naturally draws people in.

So if you understand human psychology at a practical level, you'll see this all the time.
One person will somehow become the center of attention.

• If you're at a kid's birthday party, it's usually the most rambunctious kid.
• If you're at a wedding, it should be the bride, and there's a lowkey competition among the women at the wedding, to be the center of attention.
• Women at the bars and clubs try to manufacture "center of attention" through 1) clothing, 2) dance.
• Men try to do the same with 1) clothing, 2) other guys around them.
  • They both fail in some respects, but all of this is "natural" game. Seeking attention, and trying to create interactions based on that attention.

The true life of the party can be seen by others, their actions can be seen by others, their effect on others can be seen - and the audience wants that to happen to them next. You, the watcher, want a piece of that energy. You want to be that energy.

But you can't. You can't really step outside of yourself and be "in the moment".

You're stuck in your head.

You care what others might think of you.
Being cool and social is not You.

But when the life of the party comes into your zone and interacts - they're giving you permission to be social, to talk to others, to joke, to tell stories.

This entity, external to you, comes into contact with you, and then changes you, your behavior...at least for a moment.

How does the life of the party become the life of the party?

What's inside of them that lets them be social, that lets them be a leader, be a winner?

How does the life of the party generate that internal thing?

That's what natural game focuses on.

For Tyler, he read a lot of Tony Robbins and Eckhart Tolle. (and probably some other stuff)

And if you've ever seen him in person, he's literally that kid that's running around the venue, that won't shut up, always getting into hijinx, kinda annoying but kinda endearing.

*When I see Tyler now, what I see is autism, what I see now is ignoring the unwritten social rules and the off reactions to his behavior, but that's a different story.

Tyler gets that way, because he gets into "state". He's at the point now, where if you see him in public, he's probably always "on". And maybe he is always "on". But he wasn't always this confident guy that brings the vibe up in whatever room he's in.

In terms of "state" - Mystery (canned game guy) talked about this as getting into a talkative state, and a big part of the "canned game" era was talking to people before you started "gaming".

Tyler, in my view, gets into state by talking to others, but by talking to his wings, BUT also by focusing on his body and his mind.

A lot of the "woo woo" aspect of natural game comes from the fact that you're generating "state" internally.

Any times folks start yapping about "mind state" and "meditation" and "low vibration/high vibration" - I tune out. I'm a STEM guy at heart, and all that stuff is just pseudo-science, crystals, chakrahs, dream catchers, and patchouli'd white girls with dreadlocks that need to take a shower. I've turned the corner on being so judgmental...

Going back to the one guy starting the dance party. THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE HE WAS ON DRUGS.

And the drugs, the alcohol, loosened up the internal controls on his behavior...and that willingness to be free and nothing happening to him - that drew people in. (some of whom were on drugs, but a lot of whom were not)

But a big key of Tolle, Tony Robinson, and then Tyler is that this viral social being is inside all of us.

Many of us have had times in our life when we were "in the flow" when it came to socializing.
We don't remember anything we said or did, but we remember the fun and the feelings.

The promise of Natural Game is that you can access that person, that other you, whenever you want.

And that other you, the fun and social guy, takes over and talks to girls, says whatever, escalates whenever, and then bags chicks.

This is a lot of the reason why people listen to music, drink alcohol, smoke weed, take drugs, do extreme sports/combat sports - is to access this "other guy" that's within them. That other guy can break free of the "thinking" and "self conscious" guy that's in charge.

With natural game, Part of getting the "animal" inside is letting the "guy in charge" take social risks, and seeing that nothing happens.

The "outer you" lets the "inner beast" out little by little by having the "outer you" act a little bit like "the beast".

Enter Julien.

Julien, according to himself, was way way below the average frustrated chump.

Julien came up with/or at least showed a lot of guys how "trangressing" the social norms and rules, they could free themselves.

My favorite one is him and another RSD instructor on some street corner, talking to young chicks about salmon?

They're totally in sync, and their making little jumps, saying "I'm a fish, I'm a fish, I'm a fish". It's totally ridiculous, and the girls were totally into it.

But it was this breaking of the social prison in his mind, that had him basically harassing women in Japan, and that landed him on CNN, and basically lead to RSD deleting a lot of their good stuff on Youtube, and then all of their stuff, and then their forum, and finally into the crypto-PUA guys they are now. There was probably some actionable stuff in their videos, but the cultural tides were changing.

A lot of the other PUA guys from that era mix and match "natural game" and "canned game".

Keep in mind, that there were/are lots of different styles and philosophies outside of natural vs canned.

WIA

This is just pure incandescent fire, thank you for such a complete response man

 

[mirror]

A better phrase might be "natural pathway". Because for the most part, "natural" game is very unnatural for people trying to learn it.

What does natural game look like?

On the dance floor, it's the guy that can dance well enough, but he's feeling the music the most.

This is the typical example of natural game on the "dance" floor

Hahahaha fucking hell, i have been doing natural game since 2011 then or so.

Innovations theory

1. the first guy is the revolutionary
2. the second guy is the early adopter
3. the next set of people are the early majority
4. then the late majority
5. and finally the laggards

Now If you watch all 3 minutes of the video - it goes from dancing to just standing in the same area and raising your hands.

Yep totally works like this. Totally agree.

At the bar, it's the guy yapping to the bartender, the waitress, anybody that's next to him, and just taking that same social energy and talking to any girl that passes by. (I had a pal that used to do this, and I'd call it alligator game. He's in the water rapping, and whatever Zebra or Gazelle happened to pass by would get chomped on and couldn't escape)

Gives social proof too.

The exact subject that he's talking about doesn't matter.
There's no "punch line".

He's just into talking and being social, and naturally draws people in.

Yeah hell yeah

So if you understand human psychology at a practical level, you'll see this all the time.
One person will somehow become the center of attention.

• If you're at a kid's birthday party, it's usually the most rambunctious kid.
• If you're at a wedding, it should be the bride, and there's a lowkey competition among the women at the wedding, to be the center of attention.
• Women at the bars and clubs try to manufacture "center of attention" through 1) clothing, 2) dance

Interesting but it's harder than that.

• Men try to do the same with 1) clothing, 2) other guys around them.
  • They both fail in some respects, but all of this is "natural" game. Seeking attention, and trying to create interactions based on that attention.

The true life of the party can be seen by others, their actions can be seen by others, their effect on others can be seen - and the audience wants that to happen to them next. You, the watcher, want a piece of that energy. You want to be that energy.

But you can't. You can't really step outside of yourself and be "in the moment".

You're stuck in your head.

You care what others might think of you.
Being cool and social is not You.

But when the life of the party comes into your zone and interacts - they're giving you permission to be social, to talk to others, to joke, to tell stories.

This entity, external to you, comes into contact with you, and then changes you, your behavior...at least for a moment.

How does the life of the party become the life of the party?

What's inside of them that lets them be social, that lets them be a leader, be a winner?

How does the life of the party generate that internal thing?

That's what natural game focuses on.

For Tyler, he read a lot of Tony Robbins and Eckhart Tolle. (and probably some other stuff)

And if you've ever seen him in person, he's literally that kid that's running around the venue, that won't shut up, always getting into hijinx, kinda annoying but kinda endearing.

*When I see Tyler now, what I see is autism, what I see now is ignoring the unwritten social rules and the off reactions to his behavior, but that's a different story.

Tyler gets that way, because he gets into "state". He's at the point now, where if you see him in public, he's probably always "on". And maybe he is always "on". But he wasn't always this confident guy that brings the vibe up in whatever room he's in.

In terms of "state" - Mystery (canned game guy) talked about this as getting into a talkative state, and a big part of the "canned game" era was talking to people before you started "gaming".

Tyler, in my view, gets into state by talking to others, but by talking to his wings, BUT also by focusing on his body and his mind.

A lot of the "woo woo" aspect of natural game comes from the fact that you're generating "state" internally.

Any times folks start yapping about "mind state" and "meditation" and "low vibration/high vibration" - I tune out. I'm a STEM guy at heart, and all that stuff is just pseudo-science, crystals, chakrahs, dream catchers, and patchouli'd white girls with dreadlocks that need to take a shower. I've turned the corner on being so judgmental...

Going back to the one guy starting the dance party. THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE HE WAS ON DRUGS.

Yeah it's always better to be the one joining than the initiator. The first person dancing is the uncalibrated one. If you are, it's better to do it together with someone else for social proof.

And the drugs, the alcohol, loosened up the internal controls on his behavior...and that willingness to be free and nothing happening to him - that drew people in. (some of whom were on drugs, but a lot of whom were not)

But a big key of Tolle, Tony Robinson, and then Tyler is that this viral social being is inside all of us.

Many of us have had times in our life when we were "in the flow" when it came to socializing.
We don't remember anything we said or did, but we remember the fun and the feelings.

The promise of Natural Game is that you can access that person, that other you, whenever you want.

Hell yeah. But it's an energy shift guys.

And that other you, the fun and social guy, takes over and talks to girls, says whatever, escalates whenever, and then bags chicks.

This is a lot of the reason why people listen to music, drink alcohol, smoke weed, take drugs, do extreme sports/combat sports - is to access this "other guy" that's within them. That other guy can break free of the "thinking" and "self conscious" guy that's in charge.

With natural game, Part of getting the "animal" inside is letting the "guy in charge" take social risks, and seeing that nothing happens.

The "outer you" lets the "inner beast" out little by little by having the "outer you" act a little bit like "the beast".

Enter Julien.

Julien, according to himself, was way way below the average frustrated chump.

Julien came up with/or at least showed a lot of guys how "trangressing" the social norms and rules, they could free themselves.

My favorite one is him and another RSD instructor on some street corner, talking to young chicks about salmon?

They're totally in sync, and their making little jumps, saying "I'm a fish, I'm a fish, I'm a fish". It's totally ridiculous, and the girls were totally into it.

But it was this breaking of the social prison in his mind, that had him basically harassing women in Japan, and that landed him on CNN, and basically lead to RSD deleting a lot of their good stuff on Youtube, and then all of their stuff, and then their forum, and finally into the crypto-PUA guys they are now. There was probably some actionable stuff in their videos, but the cultural tides were changing.

A lot of the other PUA guys from that era mix and match "natural game" and "canned game".

Keep in mind, that there were/are lots of different styles and philosophies outside of natural vs canned.

WIA

I do think we need a new definition of natural game.
There is this capacity of like, convincing anyone "naturally" but it's smth else than just the energetic stuff.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

I do think we need a new definition of natural game.
There is this capacity of like, convincing anyone "naturally" but it's smth else than just the energetic stuff.

Pickup has always had a word problem.

• Attraction in pick up, doesn't mean the same thing as attraction to people outside of the community (and rookies making the transition)
• Comfort - Doesn't mean she's in her jammies on the couch eating a full pan of brownies, as comfortable as that may be
• Approach - what counts as an approach?

But when we use specialized language

• Neg aka Neg Hit - which a whole book can be written about, imo
• Hook Point - what is that...exactly?
• Frame - we have had many a discussion on this.

You kinda gotta be around these circles for a bit to understand any of this stuff.
A short paragraph is one thing, but seeing it in real life and in tons of different contexts is another.

With "Natural Game" - it's really a Tyler/RSD thing that they fleshed out and brought more nuance to it.

Like to me this is the essence of Natural Game Tyler

And then he evolves into this - his full internalization of what he used to talk about in very specific and concrete ways

^this is what the community means by "natural" game.

I say all of this, because when I was learning pick up back in the day - I knew a lot of naturals, guys that were naturally good with women.

To archetype a few.

• The Pretty Boy
• The Masculine Pretty Boy
• The Performer
• The Club Promoter
• The Producer

These guys were not merely successful with women - they were PLAYERS.

These guys are not to be confused with the d-boys, gym rats, rich guys, locally famous, regular attractive dudes with little killer instinct, dancers, dj's, bartenders, cool car/bike owners, normal cool dudes etc.

Back in the day, everybody could hit the spot and leave with something cute. You didn't need to PUA to get a One Night Stand, Weekend Fling, Girlfriend, or Wife.

PUA, imo, was about choice.

But these guys had choice without the PUA.

Today, I see these guys as street brawlers, and the PUA of yesteryear was doing Wing Chun not MMA.

These players had choice, but they also had to deal with all of the same problems without the same tools that a more studied guy might have.

But they broke all of the pick up "rules". (Rules of late 90s/early 00s)

They did it "naturally".

It wasn't effortlessly, and some of it was conscious, deliberate, and intentional. But it wasn't elaborate or systematic.

WIA

 

[Skater]

Back in the day, everybody could hit the spot and leave with something cute. You didn't need to PUA to get a One Night Stand, Weekend Fling, Girlfriend, or Wife.

Do you mean to say that today it is necessary? I'm curious. Relatedly, do you think Natural Game as you define it has an application today?

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

Do you mean to say that today it is necessary? I'm curious. Relatedly, do you think Natural Game as you define it has an application today?

Great questions.

TL/DR - 1) PUA isn't needed, but guys have less social skills and girls don't know what to do when approached.

2) Natural game works better, but the learning curve is higher because rookies of today have less experience, and the girls have less experience.

The long part

1) I had two girlfriends prior to learning this stuff. That's not a lot of experience, but I had homies that got married and others that were players for life. I also had buddies that were worse off than me. It wasn't a 10% of guys taking 99% of girls scenario though.

Based on what I observed and learned as a young man, I had enough skills to connect.

Today, my sense is that a lot of guys do not have those "baseline" skills, nor do the girls. They don't know how to deal with an approach.

I'm not hollering at these young broads like you younger guys are but I do talk to them. They're just very different socially to me at least.

The statistics suggest that overall people are having less sex, but young men are hit the hardest. The young women are dating (slightly) older men.

There's an increase in sexless men, and that's not good for society. But polite society cannot teach young men what they need to learn in this area, without flipping over some apple carts.

Certain interest groups in society would go crazy if Sex. Ed were taught in a practical manner.

Even the red pill guys are talking about self improvement, as if 6 pack abs somehow talk through your shirt and get the girl to be nice for a change. And most of them prefer to harp on the evils of women than practical steps on how meet chicks and hookup. They went you to be an alpha male before you even say hi.

2) Natural Game as I understand Tyler

I want to make it clear that natural game is something that Tyler came up with. I may have some of the ideas wrong, but within PUA, that's his thing that he taught and then taught others in his crew and then everyone else. If you want understand it, look for the old videos and his book, The Blueprint. It's not a generic term, even though people use it that way.

Does it work today?

Yeah, it is literally how the social media influencer thing works. The mechanism is there, and will always be there.

All that Kai Cenat/ IShowspeed is self amusement, building up state and transferring it to the audience. PewDiePie was probably the same, I never followed him though. Arguably every singer, actor, and performer is doing natural game.

Doing that stuff offline is the issue for rookies. In terms of both skills and balls, I always tell guys to take an improv acting class. Just to get used to talking to people and trying to use your internal emotions to affect their emotional states.

But natural game still works today, though I would say more people are spectators than they used to be.
They're all voyeurs of their own lives.

One of my exes said that for her generation (millennial), that happens online is more real and more important than that happens offline.

The girl online is the real girl, the idealized girl, who she thinks that she is. But we know that's not her. And she knows it too, but she's constantly comparing herself to others. And it makes her feel worse. (This is happening to boys too, but no one is addressing it, they just see a pipeline to the alt right).

There's a reason that young girls are experiencing much more depression than they used to. And I would not be surprised if some of those young girls at 13 grow up to be 25 and are still dealing with that depression.

But having great offline presence and social skills is actually more powerful now because it's so relatively rare.

Guys her own age, and slightly older just don't have the idea that they can be this whirlwind of masculine energy. Not in real life, not offline, only online. They have never seen it in their own lives, so they don't think to become that person.

If could put my mind in a new body, these Kylie Jenner clones wouldn't know what hit them. But as I play that out in my mind, I'd be an old man having to listen to a young girl, and that just sounds like hell on Earth, lol.

Answering questions like this always brings to mind more questions..

 

[Skater]

Certain interest groups in society would go crazy if Sex. Ed were taught in a practical manner.

Boggles the brain. What benefit do they derive from a proliferation of sexless young men? As I see it that's to no one's benefit; it's a greased slide to general disaster. I doubt whoever they may be are just trying to hoard all the girls for themselves. Do they simply not see the problem?

I want to make it clear that natural game is something that Tyler came up with. I may have some of the ideas wrong, but within PUA, that's his thing that he taught and then taught others in his crew and then everyone else. If you want understand it, look for the old videos and his book, The Blueprint.

Interesting. Wasn't Gunwitch practicing a type of Natural Game well before that? He had his original GWM based on sexual state transfer all the
way in 2003. I don't know how big it was in the community back then (I was 2 years old lol) but Tyler may have resuscitated many of his ideas and intermingled them with his own to create what we now call Natural Game. I've seen some of his older material and it's quite impressive.

I'm going to one of his Free Tour events in a few weeks but from what I've heard they're merely an echo of their past glory. Still, I'm excited to see this "pillar of the community" in the flesh and feel what his presence is really like. And to hopefully meet some cool guys who are not complete weirdos (no homo). But then again can I really call someone a weirdo while posting on a site called "Skilled Seducer?"

If could put my mind in a new body, these Kylie Jenner clones wouldn't know what hit them.

Don't worry, I'm trying to export your mind into my body Really enjoy learning from you older dudes.

 

[CharmingPsychopath]

*When I see Tyler now, what I see is autism, what I see now is ignoring the unwritten social rules and the off reactions to his behavior, but that's a different story.

I've met him long ago and I was shocked by how retarded he acted. He ignored social rules and got extremely bad reactions. He acted like a obnoxious drunk guy - shouting loudly and bothering the girls, including grabbing them forcefully. But he wasn't actually drunk - just weird, retarded to the point of acting like a drunk guy.

He was also acting completely delusional - he seemed PROUD of getting extremely bad reactions, being physically pushed away, etc. He claimed these were really...signs of interest. I mean imagine girls physically pushing him away with a look of disgust on their faces, telling him rudely to get lost - that was a "sign of interest" according to him.

The worst part was seeing other PUA community guys present there buy into his bullshit and being awed by his "solid game". While in reality he was showing them how to be a retard with no social callibration. It was a cult dynamic and was very sad to see. The guys were clearly brainwashed by him to believe he's doing great because he's Tyler, their guru - disregarding how badly the girls have actually reacted to him.

Wasn't Gunwitch practicing a type of Natural Game well before that? He had his original GWM based on sexual state transfer all the
way in 2003.

Yes he was - and as the link says, it was posted in 2002.

I remember that at the time, I wasn't convinced by Gunwitch, but later I came to similar conclusions and solutions by myself.

I think that the problem with this is that a lot of people have emotional problems or "rigidity" ruining their state projection. A lot of guys - including ironically some Gunwitch followers - can't do good sexual state. Instead they start to look tense. In my case it took years to learn it. (By going out with people and aproaching, not by trying to make Gunwith Method work.)

BTW I remember that in a old Speed Seduction manual there was a mention of "you go first" rule. Meaning that if you want to evoke let's say emotional connection, you should first make yourself go into the state of emotional connection. So there was a state transfer element in the system considered by many to be completely word-dependent.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

I've met him long ago and I was shocked by how retarded he acted. He ignored social rules and got extremely bad reactions. He acted like a obnoxious drunk guy - shouting loudly and bothering the girls, including grabbing them forcefully. But he wasn't actually drunk - just weird, retarded the point of acting like a drunk guy.

He was also acting completely delusional - he seemed PROUD of getting extremely bad reactions, being physically pushed away, etc. He claimed these were really...signs of interest. I mean imagine girls physically pushing him away with a look of disgust on their faces, telling him rudely to get lost - that was a "sign of interest" according to him.

The worst part was seeing other PUA community guys present there buy into his bullshit and being awed by his "solid game". While in reality he was showing them how to be a retard with no social callibration. It was a cult dynamic and was very sad to see. The guys were clearly brainwashed by him to believe he's doing great because he's Tyler, their guru - disregarding how badly the girls have actually reacted to him.

I've met him a few times.

It didn't take long for me to be annoyed. At the same time, I could see how many people, women in particular, were entranced.

After rapping with him live, going back and reading The Game, watching his speeches and his programs - a lot clicked for me in understanding how his game worked, and who it worked for.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

Boggles the brain. What benefit do they derive from a proliferation of sexless young men? As I see it that's to no one's benefit; it's a greased slide to general disaster. I doubt whoever they may be are just trying to hoard all the girls for themselves. Do they simply not see the problem?

They see it, and don't take it seriously. Patriarchy, men control everything, own everything, have all the power...etc.

At the same time, universities are engaging in a soft "affirmative action for men", because the campus sex ratios have gotten out of whack. But I don't want to get into politics.

Interesting. Wasn't Gunwitch practicing a type of Natural Game well before that? He had his original GWM based on sexual state transfer all the
way in 2003. I don't know how big it was in the community back then (I was 2 years old lol) but Tyler may have resuscitated many of his ideas and intermingled them with his own to create what we now call Natural Game. I've seen some of his older material and it's quite impressive.

They're drawing from the same well of understanding human psychology. Tyler really doesn't focus on the sexual transfer stuff as much as GWM, but it's been a while since I read up on GWM.

The way I interpreted it GWM is basically that as a guy, you're in the "It's on mode" from the very start of the interaction. A lot of nonverbal cards are being shown. In my mind I think of the leopard walking around the baby gazelle. I wish I had a film clip to show this, because GWM and RSD Natural Game isn't really about words.

Tyler's NG is basically, he's so into himself, feeling this and that, that he infects people with his vibe. So kind of a twist on classic indirect - in that people are indirectly attracted to him, they want to be around him, see what he does next, what he says next, to others, and to themselves. They get sucked into an emotional vortex.

A lot of Tyler's best infields that I've seen, basically take place in night life, street game, outside of a club - where there's a lot of space to do and say whatever you want. And people can also do the same. ...

This is leaning into stuff that's hard to define without more tactile examples now.

I'm going to one of his Free Tour events in a few weeks but from what I've heard they're merely an echo of their past glory. Still, I'm excited to see this "pillar of the community" in the flesh and feel what his presence is really like. And to hopefully meet some cool guys who are not complete weirdos (no homo). But then again can I really call someone a weirdo while posting on a site called "Skilled Seducer?"

Don't worry, I'm trying to export your mind into my body Really enjoy learning from you older dudes.

It should be fun. It's definitely interesting. The crowd never looks cool though. That's one of the things that puts some people off - everyone around them is kinda dorky. It's the united nation of nerds, but still geeky.

And Tyler usually runs his "Tony Robbins" game on the people in the tour.

You kinda gotta get out of yourself to see how he works the crowd, at the same time he's actually working you...

 

[Skater]

You kinda gotta get out of yourself to see how he works the crowd, at the same time he's actually working you...

Yup I've seen warnings to not get sucked into his frame. Hopefully mast-binding won't be required to listen to this fat little ginger siren.

Definitely looking forward to it.

 

[CharmingPsychopath]

It didn't take long for me to be annoyed. At the same time, I could see how many people, women in particular, were entranced.

My impression is that he's delusional and that he can draw weak-minded people into that delusion. Like a cult leader who tells his followers that he is the voice of God and they need to listen to him, that he has a groundbreaking prophecy to reveal, etc etc. I can surely imagine him impressing some women with that and getting laid.

I think his autism is crucial for that - as he can tell ridiculous bullshit, adopt ridiculous grandiose pose without flinching. Where a normal person would burn with shame. Like imagine telling a group of guys that women who just brutally rejected you where in reality interested in you.

I think the guy's reall skill isn't game in traditional sense, but being a delusional, robotic (autistic) cult leader, being detached from reality, drawing people into his unshakeable delusion.

BTW He was caught writing a fake LR once, as well as caught writing under false identity, supporting...himself, of course. And if he has done these things once, he has most likely done them many times.

After rapping with him live, going back and reading The Game, watching his speeches and his programs - a lot clicked for me in understanding how his game worked, and who it worked for.

Some people think "The Game" is too harsh on Tyler and Papa...I don't think that's the case at all.. After meeting them, I think it's FAR TOO GENTLE. I think Style was gentle on them because telling the whole truth would also put Mystery in bad light.

Meeting Tyler also makes me know that people who met him and like him are weak-minded people who got sucked into the cult dynamic. Mentally strong people, with good emotional intelligence, etc, HATE HIM.

The above is why his followers are very often awkward guys, autists, etc. The guy is essentially a hyena preying on the weak.

And Tyler usually runs his "Tony Robbins" game on the people in the tour.

You kinda gotta get out of yourself to see how he works the crowd, at the same time he's actually working you...

As for the game (not) working. Tyler sucked HORRIBLY when I saw him. Papa couldn't be persuaded to approach somehow. Julien and Max were kind of lame - just plain PUA guys doing approaches, trying to make it look like they're doing something special.

The way I interpreted it GWM is basically that as a guy, you're in the "It's on mode" from the very start of the interaction. A lot of nonverbal cards are being shown.

I see it like that too.

Tyler's NG is basically, he's so into himself, feeling this and that, that he infects people with his vibe. So kind of a twist on classic indirect - in that people are indirectly attracted to him, they want to be around him, see what he does next, what he says next, to others, and to themselves. They get sucked into an emotional vortex.

Yes, this corresponds to what I've seen.

And Tyler usually runs his "Tony Robbins" game on the people in the tour.

You kinda gotta get out of yourself to see how he works the crowd, at the same time he's actually working you...

Yes, the tour is gaming the audience.

I haven't watched Tony Robbins, but I know a local self-help "guru" who also games the audience. He teaches people different kinds of nonsense, sells different products, but he doesn't teach the thing he's really good at - that is, gaming the audience.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

I think the guy's reall skill isn't game in traditional sense, but being a delusional, robotic (autistic) cult leader, being detached from reality, drawing people into his unshakeable delusion.

"Reality Warping"/"Reality distortion field" gets talked about A LOT in pick up, but also in regular life. Especially here in the States with our current administration. (TBF, the other side said the same thing about a previous president.)

I wish I could find the article, I think it was Vanity Fair, about the rise of 47. But it was a woman at some Manhattan "private dinner", and 47 or one of his cronies was there and they were talking to the folks.

She said something to the effect, "I've been around these guys a lot. They get together, they get each other going, and then They will something into existence"

My initial reaction was, "of course, they're multi-millionaires and billionaires". I could will into exist a poodle sized rhinocerous with that type of money.

But coming back to that article, as many have pointed out, lots of politicians (preachers, CEOs, etc) do this type of stuff.

And what I've noticed in doing night game, is that it's often easier to pull a girl, when she's with her friends vs alone.
If you win the friends over, then win her over, you can gas them up altogether and the hook up is a foregone conclusion.

To that end, Jim Jones, Tyler, Bad Bunny, Harry Styles, whoever - they're playing an entirely different game than the typical, "walk up to a chick and spit your raps".