None of the Sexual Gambits work

[Renegade]

Whenever I use them, they seem to make the girl angry and defensive, rather thqn aroused.

Here's what I usually do:

I need to transition into the sex talk somehow, so I use anger:

"You know what REALLY frustrated me a while back? I was arguing with a friend about who has it easier, men or women. And he really made me mad because he said women!"

Then I go on to show my prizable traits with more frustrated talk:

"Like dude women have it way harder! To find a guy who can stimulate you both physically and mentally, who can make you feel safe yet desired... that's really goddamn difficult! Ugh, I really do hate this!"

I say all of that non-sarcastically of course. My thought process: it seems like I'm just venting, but I'm in fact showing prizable traits.

"And how difficult it is to find a guy who can show desire but control himself.. that's also what's terrible about being a woman! You can't find these really good men easily and I HATE that. I really feel sorry for all the women out there.

Also some women don't know what they like or what they want. As you know, to arouse a guy you touch him in that one place, but to arouse a woman you touch her everywhere else but there. And women need an experienced guy to show them all of this. It must be terrible looking for such a guy and always being dissapointed, ugh."

So I vent away, expecting heaps of attraction and arousal. However women usually respond badly. They either argue with me about anything I say. Or they say they don't have an opinion on this and change the topic.

But they seem irritated instead of aroused. Am I doing soemthing wrong, or are all the gambits just bad?

 

[James D]

The gambits are responsible for over 90% of my lays.

They work.

With any tactic, you must consider two things:

1. Execution
2.Timing

Even a properly executed tactic falls flat if not timed properly.

In your case, seems like you fall flat on both execution and timing.

There's a feeling of anger in your post and seems like you're debating the chick.

Definitely shows your execution needs work.

 

[Renegade]

Thank you. However it's not me debating the girls, they just tell me their opinions back. Although I do often start with "I'm curious to see if you agree with my view". But that's just the necesarry bridge to the topic.

And yes there is an element of anger, because I want to move under the radar. It's way too obvious what I'm trying to do if I do it with a sexual undertone. But with frustration, the girl can be like "ah, he just wanted to vent. aight."

And timing might be important but isn't the purpose of these gambits to create the moments rather than wait for them? Aren't we the ones in control? I can't be waiting for her state to chnage by its own, I have to be proactive I think.

 

[James D]

And yes there is an element of anger, because I want to move under the radar. It's way too obvious what I'm trying to do if I do it with a sexual undertone. But with frustration, the girl can be like "ah, he just wanted to vent. aight."

I don't think there's ever been a successful seduction technique that was built upon a guy venting.

I can't think of ANY social situation where venting is attractive and desirable.

Frustration is one of the most energy draining vibes out there, period.

In fact, even reading your post wasn't so pleasant cuz it reeks frustration.

No chick wants to suck a frustrated guy's dick.

Re-read Alek's post.

At no point does he advocate *actually* being a frustrated guy venting to chicks.

It's good that you've been trying but I think it's better you put those gambits on pause for now and focus more on beginner stuff.

I'm at Disneyland right now.

At the entrance, I presented my ticket while my girl (who's a local) beeped in her annual pass and got in for free.

I said "Damn! Soooooo unfair!"

Her: "Perks of being a local "

We both laughed.

Can you see how me saying "Sooo unfair" isn't actually venting?

You're clearly missing the nuance of the word "frustrated" when Alek used it.

"Frustrated talk" has yet to be proven as a viable seduction technique.

 

[Renegade]

That sounds nice. However isn't all of this connection-seeking by having a good vibe and sharing it, kind of annoying to people? I don't live in the US, I live in eastern Europe and venting is the normal talk here. We don't like our lives and we like to let others know.

Just so you understand, being able to vent and show real frustration here is something others respect and look up to. We don't like neither fake nor real positivity. Crabs in a bucket mentality. It sucks but I have to adapt to my enviroment.

And yes in fact I am frustrated that we guys have to know all these gambits to just seduce a woman. I am frustrated with everything. But that's okay. I want to believe that even in this mental state I have value. I want to be myself after 10 years in the game, just pretending to be like my dating coach.

Also when you say "unfair" to the Disneyland girl, and similar stuff, in addition to being annoying, don't people find that kinda basic? Like there are more complex jokes you can tell at that situation. In my country you would be the "annyoing always positive guy".

And lastly, isn't that extremely difficult keeping up that good vibe, when we're mostly miserable 24/7? (We're on this forum after all so we aren't exactly high quality guys with good lives - we're the lowest of the lowest). Doesn't it get tiring trying to fake all of that positivity?

 

[James D]

Damn!

You're indeed a very frustrated individual.

You're in Eastern Europe, so you're blessed with the most beautiful women in the world.

I envy you.

If frustrated talk is normal there, do let us know how it works when it comes to seducing women.

So far, seems like the feedback you've gotten from women has been, well, frustrating.

 

[Skills]

Whenever I use them, they seem to make the girl angry and defensive, rather thqn aroused.

Here's what I usually do:

I need to transition into the sex talk somehow, so I use anger:

"You know what REALLY frustrated me a while back? I was arguing with a friend about who has it easier, men or women. And he really made me mad because he said women!"

Then I go on to show my prizable traits with more frustrated talk:

"Like dude women have it way harder! To find a guy who can stimulate you both physically and mentally, who can make you feel safe yet desired... that's really goddamn difficult! Ugh, I really do hate this!"

I say all of that non-sarcastically of course. My thought process: it seems like I'm just venting, but I'm in fact showing prizable traits.

"And how difficult it is to find a guy who can show desire but control himself.. that's also what's terrible about being a woman! You can't find these really good men easily and I HATE that. I really feel sorry for all the women out there.

Also some women don't know what they like or what they want. As you know, to arouse a guy you touch him in that one place, but to arouse a woman you touch her everywhere else but there. And women need an experienced guy to show them all of this. It must be terrible looking for such a guy and always being dissapointed, ugh."

So I vent away, expecting heaps of attraction and arousal. However women usually respond badly. They either argue with me about anything I say. Or they say they don't have an opinion on this and change the topic.

But they seem irritated instead of aroused. Am I doing soemthing wrong, or are all the gambits just bad?

If you field tested and didn't work doesn't matter what anyone says...it didn't work for you after field testing... Try a different one... I would look, focus and field test one that is comfort oriented... I will say i can tell you gambits do work gotten laid from them .. however recently a more physical game seems to work better imho as of late... look for my post on how to flirt and physical game..i can't link not at home...

 

[KJ Francis]

You project anger, then wonder why she feels anger instead of arousal. Try projecting arousal.

 

[KJ Francis]

Alek's gambits read like discussing intriguing topics with a friend. Just musing. It just so happens to imply that he has a particular set of skills.

You know what I find odd? Everyone I've met makes tea with regular old boiling water. Did you know that different teas brew better with different temperatures? It really brings out the flavor to have it dialed in right. Personally I like to get the best out of high quality teas. I think you are like me. You want to enjoy the best of tea has to offer and take the time to get it right. After all, why waste the tea's potential when you can make a simple tweak for a big payoff?

See how that's a little positive, but not overjoyed? And it's not too negative about the downsides, just casually discussing the merits of a little attention to detail.

Now when he invites her over and doesn't even mention tea, she might be thinking "Oh I wonder if he's going to make us tea! He sure knows lots about it. I bet it will be so much better than I'm used to. What a rare opportunity! Mm now I really hope I get to taste his tea."

 

[James D]

You know what I find odd? Everyone I've met makes tea with regular old boiling water. Did you know that different teas brew better with different temperatures? It really brings out the flavor to have it dialed in right. Personally I like to get the best out of high quality teas. I think you are like me. You want to enjoy the best of tea has to offer and take the time to get it right. After all, why waste the tea's potential when you can make a simple tweak for a big payoff?

As a tea lover, I must say, you nailed it big time.

If I'd hear that, I'd seriously consider going back at yours for some tea.

Some amazing tea prizing right there.

@Renegade

Great analogy by @KJ Francis there.

That's the vibe you wanna approach gambits.

Note that at no point you feel like he's frustrated and mad about tea.

 

[Will_V]

That sounds nice. However isn't all of this connection-seeking by having a good vibe and sharing it, kind of annoying to people? I don't live in the US, I live in eastern Europe and venting is the normal talk here. We don't like our lives and we like to let others know.

Just so you understand, being able to vent and show real frustration here is something others respect and look up to. We don't like neither fake nor real positivity. Crabs in a bucket mentality. It sucks but I have to adapt to my enviroment.

And yes in fact I am frustrated that we guys have to know all these gambits to just seduce a woman. I am frustrated with everything. But that's okay. I want to believe that even in this mental state I have value. I want to be myself after 10 years in the game, just pretending to be like my dating coach.

Also when you say "unfair" to the Disneyland girl, and similar stuff, in addition to being annoying, don't people find that kinda basic? Like there are more complex jokes you can tell at that situation. In my country you would be the "annyoing always positive guy".

With a mentality like that, it's no wonder girls are not aroused when you talk about sex.

Emotions are contagious, and seduction is in large part you presenting something to her that she really, really wants to be around. If you're miserable, irritable, frustrated etc she isn't going to want to be intimate with that.

What makes a man magnetic to women is his frame. Does he dominate the space around him, does he dominate his own mind, does he bend reality to his will? Or does reality toss him around like a sh*t in a waterfall?

When you fuck her, your reality moves through her, deep inside her. If that reality is unpleasant, she will put up her guard and never come home with you. If it is exhilarating, she will be desperate to feel it.

And lastly, isn't that extremely difficult keeping up that good vibe, when we're mostly miserable 24/7? (We're on this forum after all so we aren't exactly high quality guys with good lives - we're the lowest of the lowest). Doesn't it get tiring trying to fake all of that positivity?

Are we now? Lol. You can probably say we've mostly not had it easy, but women don't care about how easy you have it, only what you are capable of being to her.

Psychological strength and power - charisma - is condensed from pain. When you have to believe in yourself because your life depends on it enough times, other people start to believe when you are around.

And when you lose faith in yourself, other people steer clear, because they don't want to lose faith in themselves. Emotions are contagious.

 

[Chase]

@Renegade,

I don't live in the US, I live in eastern Europe and venting is the normal talk here. We don't like our lives and we like to let others know.

@Teevster (the originator of those sex talk gambits) is not from the U.S., he is from Western Europe.

I have been with him in-field multiple times in Eastern Europe and watched him use sex talk on women there.

It works very, very well. It also looks and sounds COMPLETELY different from what you are attempting here!

Rule of thumb on trying new techniques (or anything new, really):

1. The first thing you do is to go out and use them EXACTLY as described, verbatim, without trying to put your own spin on it. When it is a novel technique you do not have experience with, your intuition is almost without fail going to be WRONG. You need to get a baseline of how the technique works by using it exactly as prescribed first, and doing so a sufficient number of times (say trying it exactly as taught, on 20x different women).
   
   
2. Only once you have a baseline for how the technique works as prescribed can you then try throwing your own stuff in there (i.e., "I'm going to do sex talk, but this time frame it in an angry/venting way!"). WHAT YOU WILL FIND, time and again, is that you initial creative modifications fall very flat. You will scratch your head over this, and wonder why the original technique works, but your creative modifications don't. The reason is because you do not yet understand what is making the technique work at a DEEP level.
   
   
3. Over time and use, your brain will start to understand exactly WHY the technique works, at a deep and intuitive level. At that point, you will begin to have ideas about new things you can try, and this time they will actually work. When your creative ideas work, it is because you actually get what is going on with women under the hood when you do this thing.

Right now, you don't understand sex talk, and you don't understand why it would work or why the modified version you are running does not work.

If you want to use it, you need to try your very best to use it precisely as described by Teevster, and on a sufficient number of girls.

You go out, approach as if you are a student with the teacher standing just over his shoulder, and even if you feel ridiculous you do it EXACTLY as described -- then repeat on another 19 girls.

That will give you your baseline.

Until you do that, you have NOT tried sex talk.

Instead, you are doing something of your own devising. Call it "sour sex talk", perhaps.

Cheers!
Chase

 

[POB]

I need to transition into the sex talk somehow, so I use anger:

Why anger? That's not how you transition to sex talk!
Usually you start with very light topics, then light kino to warm her up (like any type of physical escalation works to look for compliance), then probe for her own sexual cues, and only when she is a bit receptive to any of it you start with the gambits.

So I vent away, expecting heaps of attraction and arousal. However women usually respond badly. They either argue with me about anything I say. Or they say they don't have an opinion on this and change the topic.

No wonder they do it...it's like you are starting a sparring session with gloves off and foam dropping from your mouth lol.
Need to warm them up first.

But they seem irritated instead of aroused. Am I doing soemthing wrong, or are all the gambits just bad?

Gambits are fucking amazing.
If you time them right, they will get you laid!

 

[Renegade]

Damn!

You're indeed a very frustrated individual.

You're in Eastern Europe, so you're blessed with the most beautiful women in the world.

I envy you.

If frustrated talk is normal there, do let us know how it works when it comes to seducing women.

So far, seems like the feedback you've gotten from women has been, well, frustrating.

You know, I don't even want to have results anymore. I just want to be authentic. For 10 years I've been acting like someone else, because it's what PUA told me. 10 years! And now I'm finally discovering my real, frustrated self. I'm not letting that go.

And when I see a frustrated person, I don't think "wow, they have no value". I see them as a human still. And I want to believe that with myself as well - that I have value as a frustrated individual too.

And I believe that frustration has a masculine power behind it too. It shows that I have emotions, and that's really cool. At least for me it is, after supressing them for the past XX years.

So sorry but I'm going to embrace my frustration right now. Some girls might not like that but how is your approach (faking positivity) better than being authentic?

 

[Renegade]

With a mentality like that, it's no wonder girls are not aroused when you talk about sex.

Emotions are contagious, and seduction is in large part you presenting something to her that she really, really wants to be around. If you're miserable, irritable, frustrated etc she isn't going to want to be intimate with that.

What makes a man magnetic to women is his frame. Does he dominate the space around him, does he dominate his own mind, does he bend reality to his will? Or does reality toss him around like a sh*t in a waterfall?

When you fuck her, your reality moves through her, deep inside her. If that reality is unpleasant, she will put up her guard and never come home with you. If it is exhilarating, she will be desperate to feel it.

Well then I don't like that. I don't want to be a "slave" of women like that. You're basically telling me that I don't have the right to be frustrated, desperate, sad... if I want to get girls. But I'm a human too! Frustration is a real and valid emotion and it needs to be felt.

Maybe you aren't like this, but when I see a frustrated guy, I'm not disgusted. I would talk to him and try to help him, or just be there for him. I would enjoy being around him because he is AUTHENTIC. Not acting like everything is ok.

You're making all of this way too conditional. We have value even if we aren't in the state you describe as perfect.

 

[topcat]

You know, I don't even want to have results anymore.

Rejoice! You’re getting exactly what you want

 

[Renegade]

@Renegade,



@Teevster (the originator of those sex talk gambits) is not from the U.S., he is from Western Europe.

I have been with him in-field multiple times in Eastern Europe and watched him use sex talk on women there.

It works very, very well. It also looks and sounds COMPLETELY different from what you are attempting here!

Rule of thumb on trying new techniques (or anything new, really):

1. The first thing you do is to go out and use them EXACTLY as described, verbatim, without trying to put your own spin on it. When it is a novel technique you do not have experience with, your intuition is almost without fail going to be WRONG. You need to get a baseline of how the technique works by using it exactly as prescribed first, and doing so a sufficient number of times (say trying it exactly as taught, on 20x different women).
   
   
2. Only once you have a baseline for how the technique works as prescribed can you then try throwing your own stuff in there (i.e., "I'm going to do sex talk, but this time frame it in an angry/venting way!"). WHAT YOU WILL FIND, time and again, is that you initial creative modifications fall very flat. You will scratch your head over this, and wonder why the original technique works, but your creative modifications don't. The reason is because you do not yet understand what is making the technique work at a DEEP level.
   
   
3. Over time and use, your brain will start to understand exactly WHY the technique works, at a deep and intuitive level. At that point, you will begin to have ideas about new things you can try, and this time they will actually work. When your creative ideas work, it is because you actually get what is going on with women under the hood when you do this thing.

Right now, you don't understand sex talk, and you don't understand why it would work or why the modified version you are running does not work.

If you want to use it, you need to try your very best to use it precisely as described by Teevster, and on a sufficient number of girls.

You go out, approach as if you are a student with the teacher standing just over his shoulder, and even if you feel ridiculous you do it EXACTLY as described -- then repeat on another 19 girls.

That will give you your baseline.

Until you do that, you have NOT tried sex talk.

Instead, you are doing something of your own devising. Call it "sour sex talk", perhaps.

Cheers!
Chase

Thank you. However I must say that I am tired of having to fake everything, which is a common theme all around this site. One of my main values in life is authenticity. And when I feel frustrated, I think I should have the right to express that with anyone. Even in my gambits.

I could do the techniques exactly as I was told, but I've been doing that for the past 10 years. All it did was create a huge mask, and deepen my mental problems. I'm not @Teevster, and I'm not feeling the emotions he's feeling.

What I need now is to be authentic, and to be shown that I have value to women in any mental state. I can't keep supplicating to them by faking a positive or sexual mood.

And even if I actually went and improved my life, so that I authentically felt good - that would still be supplicating to women! Because I would be doing it 100% for them. I don't have any motivation to do any improvement for myself. None of us do actually, you just don't realize it.

Noone in the community talks about actual authenticity, even when it's not "attractive". And noone tells us that we have value even as frustrated chumps. But we do. We are still human. Why is this community all about improvement and not even a little bit about validation and love?

Not validation and love as a tool to get women, but validation just because we exist? Because that feels great!

 

[Renegade]

Rejoice! You’re getting exactly what you want

Obviously I said that as an expression of frustration, you hve to read between the lines and feel the context. Everyone wants results with women, including me. I just don't want to fake being a cool, positive guy to get that. I want to be who I am. Everyone has value, and learning techniques from others - as opposed to learning that we have value even in the least "attractive" state - is not a good approach.

This community needs a way more therapeutic approach, not this "you're not good enough unless you're like this and use this!".

 

[topcat]

This community needs a way more therapeutic approach

lol fuck off

 

[POB]

I just don't want to fake being a cool, positive guy to get that.

So you want to be the opposite of cool and positive?
Why?

as opposed to learning that we have value even in the least "attractive" state

You are confusing your value as a person to the value you bring to the opposite sex.
Two completely different things.

Though judging by your current attitude, my guess is even guys would not want to hang wit you right now...need to change that asap dude!

This community needs a way more therapeutic approach, not this "you're not good enough unless you're like this and use this!".

This is the most helpfull and positive-oriented community I've been a part of (seduction or otherwise).
Now if you need help beyond improving yourself and getting good with women, this will never be the right place!
(nor any other forum would be for that matter).