FR NOT a good night out (nightclub bouncer attempts to intervene with pickup)

[average_daygamer]

numbers from nightgame are notoriously flakey. Don’t you want to have fun with girls while you are there? That’s my objective.

I do want to, but I never have to know how to do that. I don't know how to approach girls on the dancefloor to have fun with. If you see my other thread, regarding an incident, calibration is hard when physically approaching.

Nightgame is a huge mystery. The only reason I do it is because daygame doesn't deliver the volume of consistently hot girls.

 

[KnownUniverse]

I do want to, but I never have to know how to do that. I don't know how to approach girls on the dancefloor to have fun with.

Approach them like you would a group of toddlers. Offer them a high five or something then continue to be playful.

 

[gameboy]

If you're not having fun with them before asking for the number, there's no reason at all for the girl to want to text you let alone meet up with you again.

I shared my "process" above so you see there are more steps needed before it even makes sense for you take her number. You can't just number farm in a night club. You need to generate some interest first. If some girl once in a while gives you her number , you can be sure it's because she's too nice or too scared to say no, not because she's actually interested in you.

If my process is too passive for you then of course you can be more active and for example talk to girls without prior eye contact. It can work really well, especially if the girl senses your interest is strong and authentic.

(Btw I didn't see it as a process at the time. It was just the way it usually played out whenever I met a girl and we ended up getting together. But in hindsight, I see that these things usually tend to play out in similar ways, so I am now able to recognize the pattern.)

 

[bkw]

calibration is hard when physically approaching.

The thing with calibration is it is something that comes with time, and it's hard to force it. Probably the best way to get "calibrated" is to do tons and tons of approaches, get comfortable, get confident, etc., especially in the situations you want to approach women, and you will become calibrated, unless you have some type of personality effect (autism, etc.). The more calibrated you are, the more people respond favorably and the less weird instances, like the one you mentioned in this thread, occurs.

Chances are, if you're not calibrated, then you haven't approached enough women and have gained the confidence/comfort to actually be/appear calibrated.

What's cool about knowing this, is knowing you can achieve comfort/confidence/calibration by TAKING LOTS OF ACTION--it kind of gives you motivation to fuck up and try again and again (you have to). This is motivating.

 

[average_daygamer]

The thing with calibration is it is something that comes with time, and it's hard to force it. Probably the best way to get "calibrated" is to do tons and tons of approaches, get comfortable, get confident, etc., especially in the situations you want to approach women, and you will become calibrated, unless you have some type of personality effect (autism, etc.). The more calibrated you are, the more people respond favorably and the less weird instances, like the one you mentioned in this thread, occurs.

Chances are, if you're not calibrated, then you haven't approached enough women and have gained the confidence/comfort to actually be/appear calibrated.

What's cool about knowing this, is knowing you can achieve comfort/confidence/calibration by TAKING LOTS OF ACTION--it kind of gives you motivation to fuck up and try again and again (you have to). This is motivating.

The irony is, I was in the club to do tons and tons of approaches in an environment that allows it.

I would normally tap a girl on the shoulder and ask if she wants to dance. That was my standard approach until a couple of weeks ago when a girl in a 4 set (not the one I approached) over reacted and got me thrown out.

Understandably, I wasn't exactly thrilled about approaching this weekend and, right on cue, on my first approach, the bouncer intervenes and tells me off.

So how am I meant to approach without attracting the bouncer now?

My current idea is to leave it a couple of months before going back, let him calm down.

 

[bkw]

So how am I meant to approach without attracting the bouncer now?

My current idea is to leave it a couple of months before going back, let him calm down.

I mean, it's odd he would do that considering you're in a club. But, if this only happened once, I wouldn't worry about it much, and I'd go back again without any breaks from the place. Perhaps next time you see him, just be extra friendly to him, be cool with him, etc., and if he approaches you again about it then sounds like the dude is too controlling and probably better to find another place for a while.

 

[gameboy]

So how am I meant to approach without attracting the bouncer now?

I've been trying to tell you that. Talk to girls first in a cool sociable way, don't just ask the number right up front.

Btw your initial mistake was to ask for BOTH girls numbers. This comes across super uncalibrated. If one girl rejects you, just say something "ok no worries" and eject gracefully. Don't hang in there trying to grab the number from the other one (which is OBVIOUSLY going to say no if her friend rejected you just the instant before).

 

[JT Sunshine]

If you look at the bigger picture, I am there to take value.

Daygame doesn't deliver the volume or the physical attractiveness of girls that nightgame does. So I am being around hot girls by going there, but just being an invisible wall flower isn't enough.

If you want things to change, you've got to take action. That girl is hot, I will approach her, but how? I don't really dance or give a fuck about dancing, just approaching. There have been various approach methods which have resulted in blowouts and security.

Also, your 65 year old guy example. I have seen this as well. That is fine, the guy is there to enjoy dancing and the nightclub experience. I remember observing such a guy once. That's great but I am there for pickup.

But I do not enjoy the nightclub experience without approaching as that is my main reason for being there. And I know everyone is 18+, I don't want an asshole bouncer stepping in for talking to someone who is an adult.

As for the venue, It is the only venue I can stay for nearly 2 hours and catch the last train back home for 1am to be in bed for 1:30.

There are other venues but I have to Airbnb them. I don't get enough results form nightgame to justify it yet.

To answer the energy question, I am tense. If I ignore girls and don't approach, I am fine. But if I want to achieve anything, I have to approach and therefore, I am tense.

And that is totally fine. The reason I go to clubs is for the girls too… I could blast music, dance around in my living room and sip on way cheaper drinks if I wanted.

Maybe to phrase the question better, are you providing value to the girls you want to attract? Even if the value is “this guy seems cool/friendly” or “this guy is funny” or “this guy’s fashion is on point”. I think it’s great that you want to approach a high volume of very attractive women. But ask yourself “what is my objective in doing this?” If it’s to overcome your approach anxiety, then sure, spam approach away and ask for the number on open. Just have realistic expectations that it probably won’t end in a number (trust me, I’ve seen many try it, and many fail). But once you get past the approach anxiety, if your goal is to actually meet and attract these women (where you have a chance of actually talking to them again, seeing them again… and ideally become sexual partners) then you’re going to need to give them a reason to want to see you again. Which is why they would give you their number in the first place… right?

I’d recommend while starting you do your best to just be social and friendly, and if you are having a good conversation with a girl, just say “I have to go, but you’re really cool and I’d love to talk to you again… here, put your number in my phone” and hand her the phone with the number screen open. Don’t over complicate it.

The bouncer sounds like a bit of an ass, so just avoid him and if you do have to interact, be polite and apologetic. Bouncers deal with so many drunk assholes every night, they’ll have no problem tossing you if they think you’re being rude to them… but probably won’t even give you a second look if you’re polite and apologetic. Doesn’t matter if they’re in the wrong, just be polite.

Hope you stay at it, would hate to have your night game career cut short because of one asshole bouncer. It can be a lot of fun!

 

[KJ Francis]

even if the girls are drooling over you, opening with your phone out asking for contact info is a little confusing for them... getting contact info is needed to plan to see someone again, and they haven't even met you yet. you don't need to plan to see them again when you are at the hello step. phones are a bridge between real life meeting.

if you are getting heat to the tune of "she's not into you bro, give up, fuck off, you're too [old, or whatever else]" it could be 1. envy of your balls, and 2. you are too obviously "on the prowl" without social proof. instead of going to "hit on girls", you could go "find out about" some groups... how's your night going, what brings you out, what are you celebrating... get to know them like a platonic house party... THEN the hot girls will view you as attractive... more attractive from preselection than from whatever you try directed at them.

girls rarely approach. they like gossip and evolved risk averse to evaluate from second hand reviews, especially visual proof right in front of their eyes. once you're socializing, you'll be able to approach others without sticking out to the enforcer... and aim for groups of three or four to look like part of them and be able to peel one off, rather than a guy shooting his shot at a pair.

 

[KJ Francis]

I actually interacted with three different groups of guys consisting of one at the punch bag machine, a group of 4 sitting outside at the tables and another guy who was with his friends who recognised me from one of my hobbies. Actually the guy from one of my hobbies was nearby when the two stunning blondes were nearby but I don't think they noticed.

But these were before there were any hot girls in the club to demonstrate social value. When the dancefloor started getting girls on it, I didn't want to go in too soon and start approaching.

Saw this after... but maybe try mingling with mixed guy/girl groups, and the kind-of-cute girls first... going from a few guy groups you are obviously not with, then right to the hottest girls does catch the bouncer's eye if it's the same bouncer dude next time... gotta get general social proof. Will's post explained it well. age is definitely not a real issue... like skills is not a problem staff needs to keep an eye on...

 

[Aussiedude]

Just move to the Philippines

 

[average_daygamer]

even if the girls are drooling over you, opening with your phone out asking for contact info is a little confusing for them... getting contact info is needed to plan to see someone again, and they haven't even met you yet. you don't need to plan to see them again when you are at the hello step. phones are a bridge between real life meeting.

if you are getting heat to the tune of "she's not into you bro, give up, fuck off, you're too [old, or whatever else]" it could be 1. envy of your balls, and 2. you are too obviously "on the prowl" without social proof. instead of going to "hit on girls", you could go "find out about" some groups... how's your night going, what brings you out, what are you celebrating... get to know them like a platonic house party... THEN the hot girls will view you as attractive... more attractive from preselection than from whatever you try directed at them.

girls rarely approach. they like gossip and evolved risk averse to evaluate from second hand reviews, especially visual proof right in front of their eyes. once you're socializing, you'll be able to approach others without sticking out to the enforcer... and aim for groups of three or four to look like part of them and be able to peel one off, rather than a guy shooting his shot at a pair.

Hehe, ironically, it was a 4 set that caused the drama last weekend! I tapped this cute lil brunette wearing a miniskirt dancing in a 4 set and her friend over reacted.

I am goal oriented. I find it very difficult to do all of these extra steps that are surplus to my goal and not in pursuit of it.

I do go to the club with the intention of spam approaching.

For instance, on Nye I airbnb'ed a different club and busted out 25 approaches that night, all rejections.

But by that time I felt more confident and looser.

I don't like to overthink who I approach. I would normally start with the hottest girls in the club and work my way down to my level.

 

[average_daygamer]

And that is totally fine. The reason I go to clubs is for the girls too… I could blast music, dance around in my living room and sip on way cheaper drinks if I wanted.

Maybe to phrase the question better, are you providing value to the girls you want to attract? Even if the value is “this guy seems cool/friendly” or “this guy is funny” or “this guy’s fashion is on point”. I think it’s great that you want to approach a high volume of very attractive women. But ask yourself “what is my objective in doing this?” If it’s to overcome your approach anxiety, then sure, spam approach away and ask for the number on open. Just have realistic expectations that it probably won’t end in a number (trust me, I’ve seen many try it, and many fail). But once you get past the approach anxiety, if your goal is to actually meet and attract these women (where you have a chance of actually talking to them again, seeing them again… and ideally become sexual partners) then you’re going to need to give them a reason to want to see you again. Which is why they would give you their number in the first place… right?

I’d recommend while starting you do your best to just be social and friendly, and if you are having a good conversation with a girl, just say “I have to go, but you’re really cool and I’d love to talk to you again… here, put your number in my phone” and hand her the phone with the number screen open. Don’t over complicate it.

The bouncer sounds like a bit of an ass, so just avoid him and if you do have to interact, be polite and apologetic. Bouncers deal with so many drunk assholes every night, they’ll have no problem tossing you if they think you’re being rude to them… but probably won’t even give you a second look if you’re polite and apologetic. Doesn’t matter if they’re in the wrong, just be polite.

Hope you stay at it, would hate to have your night game career cut short because of one asshole bouncer. It can be a lot of fun!

To answer your question, no, I do not believe that I am providing value to the girls.

Due to suffering from Asperger's syndrome, my approach is very binary.

Normally something like *shoulder tap* "hi, you look great, do you want to dance".

Since last weekend's incident with the shoulder tap, that opener has been taken away from me. Atleast for now in that specific easily accessible club.

As for my approach asking for numbers on the open, it seems to have attached the ire of the bouncer who wants to stop me, so I won't be doing that anymore.

But I do think the shoulder tap approach is more legitimate, but that could lead to an allegation of "physical assault" like it did last weekend with the 4 set.

Admittedly, I was offended by the friend's overreaction and did call her a fat bitch which didn't help. But still it was not justified to over react and order me away from her group like she did.

My goal is changeable depending on what stage I am in.

Stage 1. Approach anxiety buster

5-10 approaches, outcome doesn't matter. This is near the start of the night where I am feeling awkward and in my head. The club is almost empty and I am scared to approach girls when it is almost empty because the security can what I am doing more easily.

Stage 2. Meaningful approaches

Try to make calibrated approaches and introduce myself to the girl without any weird incidents. If the girl atleast gives a "boyfriend rejection" this is a good sign as it shows I am coming across right.

To answer your question, I will stay at it, but I am going to give it a break for now as I felt very wound up last weekend and could envisage myself slapping him which would have got me banned. I may Airbnb a different town in a few weeks time where I will be anonymous again.

But doing these "spam style" approaches is problematic because the bouncer can see the reactions from the girl are not positive and thus makes me stick out more if I keep getting blowouts. Which then makes him want to tell me to stop. And also tell me they are not interested after I have been blowout which is simply stating the obvious and thus likely to annoy me into retaliating if he keeps doing it and we don't want an escalation over something like that.

Edit: this bouncer is always on the 1st floor, which is usually the busiest. He is always posted there. The ground floor is a bit quieter but the hottest girls are usually on the 1st floor on most nights until the busier times when all 3 main floors are open.

 

[average_daygamer]

Saw this after... but maybe try mingling with mixed guy/girl groups, and the kind-of-cute girls first... going from a few guy groups you are obviously not with, then right to the hottest girls does catch the bouncer's eye if it's the same bouncer dude next time... gotta get general social proof. Will's post explained it well. age is definitely not a real issue... like skills is not a problem staff needs to keep an eye on...

Hmm...mixed sets?

Pretty tricky, that one.

Ah, you mean in terms of just being social rather than directly approaching the girls.

I can but...what would we have in common?

I approach girls because that is the "main event".

I approach groups of guys on their own because they are also there for the girls so we have that common goal.

But mixed sets? For what purpose. Other than a weak "hey, how's your night going" I can't see what I might bring to the group.

"Going for the kinda cute girls first"

Yes, this makes sense. I will do that. I do sometimes do it this way. There are plenty of them but I feel like I want to be a bit more selective and discreet early on in the night around 2300-0030.

I need to make a separate thread actually on "early night" club game when the club is mostly empty. I should imagine the advice would be something like "just talk to everyone and be social".

But then getting from that social phase to the more predatory pickup mindset can be quite mentally difficult.

 

[OldGuy]

Mixed sets can depend on the ratio. Excess women can be open. I have even seen 2f/1m have an open woman. Looked like 2 roommates with the plainer one's bf. Other was sending AI.

 

[average_daygamer]

Mixed sets can depend on the ratio. Excess women can be open. I have even seen 2f/1m have an open woman. Looked like 2 roommates with the plainer one's bf. Other was sendi

Your comment is valid and makes sense, so I am not dismissing that at all.

I was more thiñking of bigger groups for instance when they are sat on those wooden pick nick style tables outside in the smoking area and you can't even tell who is with who!

But yeah, reading the situation with a mixed 3 set certainly makes sense and is an easy approach.

 

[Tryst]

I ignored them at first but they were too gorgeous not to try something on.

So I went with my phone out and asked both for their phone numbers to get the ball rolling.

Are you making use of any materials to guide your practise? Are you studying PU, or just going in field to see what sticks? Share your methods with us.

 

[Skills]

Op i would read a basic seduction book or blogs from Guys that do night game... As i said also @DoWhatWorks if you go to hos archives....he has some lay reports and night game guides.... So you can get ideas he is in England...

 

[KJ Francis]

Because you have Asperger's (I believe?), based on Chase's latest article (which I haven't finished reading yet), unless you're a skilled dancer, this is from the point of view of his recommendation for routine based game (or at least multi-step process-based), like Mystery Method. You need to be good at reading nonverbal cues and subtle shifts in micro calibrating etc. with more 60 Years of Challenge style physical game.

Dating for Autistic Men: The Ultimate Guide

Dating is rough for autistic men. Yet, approaching it methodically, focusing on building the right habits, their romantic challenges can be whittled down. As the founder of the highest traffic men’s dating advice website in history, I’ve fielded comments, questions, and laments from men on the...

www.girlschase.com

I am goal oriented. I find it very difficult to do all of these extra steps that are surplus to my goal and not in pursuit of it.

I do go to the club with the intention of spam approaching.

The goal is ultimately to get a girl to depart her friends near the end of the night and accompany you home, right? This will take time to get good enough to do, so shorter term goal is to increase the skill level and have that be success in itself. So that's successful opening, hooking socially getting into conversation, attracting and hooking her interest, screening/qualifying, moving/isolating, building comfort while charging arousal, and extracting.

first goal is skill at opening and socially hooking

For instance, on Nye I airbnb'ed a different club and busted out 25 approaches that night, all rejections.

But by that time I felt more confident and looser.

spam approaching is good to get rid of approach anxiety, but unlike outdoors, there is spillover between sets, and if you're moving on from a target after going direct, chances are it's negative social points you're carrying over.

this is a short clip of Mystery explaining changing your view from direct shooting your shot (which is sub-optimal in the closed environment, and not like day game which is direct out of necessity for moving sets) to instead befriending the group.

23K views · 30 reactions | “What do I say to a group of people in order to befriend them?” Group Theory: That’s the fantasy. #pickupartist #datingcoach #datingcoachformen #pua | Mystery / Erik von Markovik

“What do I say to a group of people in order to befriend them?” Group Theory: That’s the fantasy. #pickupartist #datingcoach #datingcoachformen #pua.

www.facebook.com

regarding your "surplus to the goal" point, consider that shooting your shot is a dice roll based on her first impression of your fundamentals, and her auto-pilot rejection of a direct approach in a club environment.

it is in direct service of the goal to leverage the strongest attraction trigger, which is preselection from building basic social proof with a few female or mixed sets before. this also gives the social momentum you described above, being looser. you can get a girl socially engaged and use that reaction to passively attract the observing women around you by NOT shooting your shot and blowing it out.

I don't like to overthink who I approach. I would normally start with the hottest girls in the club and work my way down to my level.

the problem with this is you lose negative social points for ever observable rejection. people won't necessarily be judging accurately out of earshot, and you can leave with a smile, etc., but playing this top-down game is hurting you, while starting with the 6's or 7's, then to the 8's, etc. will literally raise your attraction in the eyes of the 9's.

the goal is to not trigger a default rejection at the opener... it is the opposite of game of chance to see if she's attracted. it is indirect game, where you withhold sexual interest for a few minutes.

Hmm...mixed sets?

Pretty tricky, that one.

Ah, you mean in terms of just being social rather than directly approaching the girls.

yes, exactly... every other guy is more afraid to open mixed sets, which means less competition, and girls with guy friends can be friendlier and not in their scatterbrain girl-pack mentality. plus you are using them for social proof points. you can charge your social shield a bit, then attempt more risky encounters. this gets the bouncer of your back too... social butterfly vs. predator.

Mystery Method is not "single set" game, and early sets are not just warmups. it is predicated on the idea that you're going to NEED the earlier sets for social proof and sufficiently sparking a little competition for the hottest girls to feel attracted to you. it's a mini mission to go get your gun before you play the next level.

I can but...what would we have in common?

I approach girls because that is the "main event".

I approach groups of guys on their own because they are also there for the girls so we have that common goal.

But mixed sets? For what purpose. Other than a weak "hey, how's your night going" I can't see what I might bring to the group.

you are there to give a bit of good feelings in exchange for social points that will radiate off you for the next girl. even once you're with a girl of interest, indirect game is conveying your personality a bit first, THEN you can "go for" a girl. her interest precedes your interest.

But then getting from that social phase to the more predatory pickup mindset can be quite mentally difficult.

instead of going to hunt something, indirect is going to lure it out of her... she's going to chase you instead. even when you approach the hot girls, it is not like previous sets were social, now these later sets are pickup. it is beginning of the set is social, then if she is happy talking to you, then you show some interest in her personality and physically (proximity and gradual touch escalation).

again, https://www.facebook.com/reel/712967547963899

 

[Skills]

Hmm ok. Still "the west" but I do find the age gap hysteria to be stronger in the UK than the USA.

no such thing as "age" hysteria, if you look cool and that you belong there is no issue... As long as you look in your mid 30s is the sweet spot, but vibe is huge, most guys at clubs struggle with vibe and fundamentals....

Also I do think Americans have a more "mind your business" culture than the UK.

????????? nah people here similar..

These two blondes were dancing in white dresses, it was clear the whole club noticed them.

hot women will be noticed by the whole club...

By the way, when stunners come in, what is the best time to approach them? Or should you ignore them and focus on the more plain looking girls?

no ignore you go for what you want... but you need to sometimes hoover, or get social proof, i mean so many ways and situations....

In pickup, we are told to go right away, but it would seem kind of desperate to pounce on them immediately.

depends on the situation.... there are ways around, if you are in club and the girl see you too much, you can be used furniture (she will be like i saw it), but if she sees you and you are cool guy opening people or mingling, and then they are just part of it, one way.... the context of going right away is that you hesitate too long she will interpret as lower value, you are not confident or secure enough and creeping.... Or you will lose opportunities if you take too long (another guy may come in) or (you may convince and rationalize not to open)... But you don't always need to go right away depends on situation..

forcing approach invites another way...

saying an indirect comment to force reaction another...

doing a gesture or a dance a ______ to get a reaction attention...

so many ways...

I also have this problem when the club is almost empty at the beginning. I find it difficult to talk to the girls for fear of being seen as a desperate creep.

Maybe I need to make a thread, actually, on early nightgame etiquette.

^ well at the beginning of the night the bitch shield is typically lower not always, sometimes they are shy so even thought the bitch shield is lower they are rusty and in their head (just like you are when you get to the club)...

Again many ways around it....
- mentality of the first 2 hours don't count at all one way
- mingling another way
- moving around to different floors or different part of clubs another way or different venues rotations...
-just dancing by yourself for a bit to get warm up another
- going to spot not to visible to study the atmosphere another and spot targets, logistcs, group of target dynamics etc...


^ so many ways...

i got some post on different things very basic is old, but some still apply

this is a basic guide

club dynamics

approach invites (with gen z is very difficult to force and spot ais though)

^ after reading this you need to read this for context to new era (i wrote those post long ago)

Good indirect openers "how is your night going?"

"what are you guys celebrating?"

"what are you guys scheming" (two girls set)

"those are bad ass shoes"

" I was going to wear the same shoes" if high heels

"i was going to wear the same outfit" if she has a very sexual outfit, i am glad i did not it would have been awkward...

"what time this club usually get good?"

Go with the cool vaping stuff or cigarettes (no my thing) go to smoking area


Night game in general to be honest can be brutal... It is the hardest form of any game, you are dealing with groups vs single sets(day game) or online texting/pictures (online).... and loud music, distractions etc...

but is the best and most fun imho (but i am bias)