Pleasure and acquisition cost, the hate on tinder is senseless

Tank

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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I've done quite a bit of tinder this year and overall here are my experiences:
1) it's very easy to sleep with 6s. Maybe one in three or four girls who will meet up will fuck (on either the first or second date usually). And the number of dates with 6s I can get is essentially unlimited, as in I'm limited more by time than ability. Pleasure wise it's generally fine, I can alternate good body mediocre face with good face mediocre body etc. But each individual girl and kind of lose interest for after a month or so of casually sleeping with her.

2) it is possible to occasionally get 7s from tinder but the acquisition costs are not really worth it. Lots of flaking lots of stopping replying to messages, and even lots of full on no girls upon meeting.

3) I've calculated that the very best possible outcome for me with daygame, once I get my game to top shape, is 1 lay in 200 approaches of 7s. Now this is just a plain fact one can't argue with this. Krauser, who is an 8 in fundamnetals/smv who has essentially dedicated his life to game has about a 1 in 40 rate approaching 7s and 8s. My friend with hundreds of lays is in the same boat and about 1 in 60. So double that because I don't approach girls who are below max hotness ceiling (which is a 7, so I don't approach 6s unlike Krauser who is an 8 sometimes approaching 7s) and double that because I am not going to devote my life to game. So 1 in 200 for 7s is the best possible outcome. And actually that'd be pretty great. If I do 25 per week then that means one 7 every two months.

Now the cost of acquisition with daygame has ancillary benefits, you gain some courage each time you approach, you are out in the world and not on your smartphone and live feedback is far more informative and there is more skill to develop that way. So based on that it is stupid to even bother pursuing 7s from tinder.

At the same time look at the costs of getting 6s from tinder and 7s from daygame, there is a huge astronomical discrepancy.

So why cut one out? Seems like it makes the most sense to me to use tinder to sleep with 6s and use daygame (or nightgame if you prefer) to sleep with 7s both. Of course adjusting based on how many girls you are sleeping with currently, the weather, etc etc but it seems it's always best to have a balance of the two and consider both as viable options of sex acquisition. Or better yet cycle it, sleep with a bunch of tinder girls until you get sick of it while working on your approach and then hopefully by the time you are sick of tinder you are able to get a few hotter girls.

So it's never a question of which is better, both are good! But it's more a subtle question of the right time management based on where you are at at the time, and the right balance between the two to truly maximise the sex to effort ratio. And that itself is a difficult problem that I am still wrestling with.
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
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The way i do it is i prioritize night game/day game(i don't really do day game just for the point) over online...

So if i meet a girl from online in the evening i seduce her, most times i will not have sex with her even if i can (which increases attraction) and then i go clubbing...

Also i will not do dates on the dates were time is tight (less say Friday i am done with my stuff at 8 pm) i will try not to date Fridays so it does not take from clubbing...
 

Carousel

Tribal Elder
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3) I've calculated that the very best possible outcome for me with daygame, once I get my game to top shape, is 1 lay in 200 approaches of 7s. Now this is just a plain fact one can't argue with this. Krauser, who is an 8 in fundamnetals/smv who has essentially dedicated his life to game has about a 1 in 40 rate approaching 7s and 8s. My friend with hundreds of lays is in the same boat and about 1 in 60. So double that because I don't approach girls who are below max hotness ceiling (which is a 7, so I don't approach 6s unlike Krauser who is an 8 sometimes approaching 7s) and double that because I am not going to devote my life to game. So 1 in 200 for 7s is the best possible outcome. And actually that'd be pretty great. If I do 25 per week then that means one 7 every two months.
Cope as usual. Krauser is not an 8 in terms of fundamentals. He started lifting at age 45 or so, also his sense of fashion is dull. I have read his blog for years and highly value many of his contributions, but no.
 

Tr1cky

Space Monkey
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"once I get my game to top shape, is 1 lay in 200 approaches of 7s. Now this is just a plain fact one can't argue "

Are you saying bacchus is lying when he claims a 1 in 5 day game approach to lay? Or that it doesnt count because hes selective in who he approaches?

I prefer in person cold approach because it forces you to confront your short comings. For me, it forces me to develop my extroverted side.

You learn how to be likeable, win over crowds and random strangers, develop a strong frame of who you are as a person.

Yadda yadda yadda you can do all this using online game, its still game, yadda yadda.

To me the stakes arent as high, neither is the pressure. I think most people get to the point with game where the purpose is no longer getting laid but rather the benefits it brings to your life.

To me, banging 6s delivered to you by an app, brings very little benefits to my life.
 

Tank

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Skills,
Yeah makes sense. Seems it should depend on if you have some fwbs or not too, if you do better to focus on cold approach and if you don't better to get some easy ones from tinder.

I still have a hard time restraining myself from getting more and more though, and also it is a challenge to maintain both fwbs and work on cold approach simultaneously, but that is a more subtle difficulty and challenge in regards to time management

Carousel,

Empirically, Krauser regularly fucks 8s and I haven't fucked an 8 since 2014, this is very obviously a fundamentals, not a game thing. Remember chase himself wrote a post https://www.girlschase.com/content/attraction-either-there-or-it-isnt
Saying how the hotness of the best girl you can sleep with reflects your fundamentals and the closing percentage your game.

As for why Krausers fundamentals are so high, that's of course not empirical but interpretation but it seems to me because he is dark triad in natural personality, which is hot to women, and has a location independent lifestyle, which is intriguing.

It's not cope, it's just observation of the facts.

Tr1cky,
Dude I agreed with you! I wrote that it's senseless to pursue 7s from tinder because it is just as time consuming as cold approach, possibly worse, but you get nothing from it. Whereas there are ancillary benefits from working on your cold approach, confidence overall skillset development and so on.
 

Carousel

Tribal Elder
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Empirically, Krauser regularly fucks 8s and I haven't fucked an 8 since 2014, this is very obviously a fundamentals, not a game thing. Remember chase himself wrote a post https://www.girlschase.com/content/attraction-either-there-or-it-isnt
Saying how the hotness of the best girl you can sleep with reflects your fundamentals and the closing percentage your game.

As for why Krausers fundamentals are so high, that's of course not empirical but interpretation but it seems to me because he is dark triad in natural personality, which is hot to women, and has a location independent lifestyle, which is intriguing.

It's not cope, it's just observation of the facts.
What planet are you living on? I must be a 10 if this is an male 8.
 

Tank

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Wtf man fundamentals is not only looks we all know that. It includes his natural dark triad personality and his lifestyle
 

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Tribal Elder
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Wtf man fundamentals is not only looks we all know that. It includes his natural dark triad personality and his lifestyle
You are referring to unobservable and hence unarguable fudge factors. There is no way to link a number to either of these without resorting to pure speculation.

The only thing which is OBSERVABLY true is that he is 1) NOT an 8 by looks and 2) has NOT maximized his fundamentals.
 

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Tribal Elder
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As for why Krausers fundamentals are so high, that's of course not empirical but interpretation but it seems to me because he is dark triad in natural personality, which is hot to women, and has a location independent lifestyle, which is intriguing.

It's not cope, it's just observation of the facts.
Also just lol at this self-contradiction.
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
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i think tank is talking fundamentals besides looks, such as non tangibles such as: confidence, hygiene, style etc... vs looks per se (krauser is not 8 in looks but more like a 6) there were many manosphere guys that had a point system for smv, which they gave each other points for things like income, race etc....

krauser looks with age have deteriorated as well as his sense of style in this pic in his prime he was decent


keep in mind you do not have to be an 8 guy to sleep/get with an 8 girl or above.......

Tank it seems you need to stay a bit of away with your obsession with point system like people have told you many times, to avoid this type of derails...
 
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Bacchus

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3) I've calculated that the very best possible outcome for me with daygame, once I get my game to top shape, is 1 lay in 200 approaches of 7s. Now this is just a plain fact one can't argue with this. Krauser, who is an 8 in fundamnetals/smv who has essentially dedicated his life to game has about a 1 in 40 rate approaching 7s and 8s. My friend with hundreds of lays is in the same boat and about 1 in 60. So double that because I don't approach girls who are below max hotness ceiling (which is a 7, so I don't approach 6s unlike Krauser who is an 8 sometimes approaching 7s) and double that because I am not going to devote my life to game. So 1 in 200 for 7s is the best possible outcome. And actually that'd be pretty great. If I do 25 per week then that means one 7 every two months.
You started this thread by talking about online experiences. So why even bother posting this?

Its one thing to reflect on your results after a stretch of day gaming. Then ask for tips you can learn. . . to improve next time around. It is another good thing. . . to talk about a new level of results you have reached. Due to internalization of attractive behaviors, nuanced strategies and persuasive techs.

All of these are great topics to base threads on. Both will bring props. Maybe some fantastic advice too. It will most likely minimize useless debate.

What I'm quoting here is not even close to these. Do you think that posting your speculative "observations" on internet forums. . . will have any effect on your internal frame. . . or sex life? Perhaps you just want an outlet. If so write reports, start a journal, or just stick to posts like what I recommended above and talk about your first hand experiences. Theory without this is bunk. After all. . . this forum is called skilled seducer. . . not mental masturbators inc.
 

Tank

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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I think my point has been lost here, and I'm a bit puzzled by people arguing about pretty obvious facts about league and so on.

Maybe to rephrase: there is a lot of hate on tinder at the forum. Based on my observations and the available data, tinder versus cold approach represents a trade off rather than a direct one is better than the other. Tinder requires much less time and effort to get a certain hotness of girl with a certain level of consistency. Cold approach a certain level of possibility in regards to a one point hotter girl, but with a much higher overall time investment. One is not strictly better than the other. And in general for the best sex life it is best to do both. How much of both will of course vary based on various practical factors in time availability and so on.

Was this clearer? :)
 

Tr1cky

Space Monkey
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This isnt a judgement, simply a personal opinion, it would decrease the satisfaction of my sex life if I had to bang an endless stream of 6's.
 

hater58

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Are these approaches on girls who have given you IOIs or no?
 

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Tribal Elder
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I think my point has been lost here, and I'm a bit puzzled by people arguing about pretty obvious facts about league and so on.
"Obvious facts".

Listen here, you are not in a position to state "facts" with regards to pickup as you do not by own admission have a well-functioning model of it.

Anoher "fact" you have stated was that state is RSD "dogshit concept" when I who personally hate RSD like the plague (with the exception of Tyler's old material and Todd's material) have written about such things for maybe 10 years, numerous non-RSD guys have written about it and it has been described scientifically by Porges/Berceli as "social engagment". Porges is a world-leading psychiatry professor with 37000 total citations.

Or when you stated it as a "fact" that laying 18 year olds in Europe required knowing DJs.

As for your "facts" about Krausers sky-high fundamentals, I have actually read his blog consistently for years.
And here is what he says himself: https://krauserpua.com/2013/07/28/everyone-is-getting-laid-but-me/

Krauser PUA said:
After a run of approaches that go nowhere I sometimes tell myself “All I need is one girl and a tiny piece of luck”. If I find a Yes Girl I will fuck her. No question. All I need to get laid now is a girl who fancies me, is available, and no logistical barriers. But being a bald 38 year old man with unremarkable looks….. those conditions aren’t satisified anywhere near as often as they are for a tall, young good-looking guy. Nonetheless it’s the hand I’m dealt so that’s the hand I play and I do okay.
Does not sound exactly like he even thinks of HIMSELF as an 8.

He would also FLAT OUT OPPOSE your "facts" about fundamentals and hotness:

Tank said:
Empirically, Krauser regularly fucks 8s and I haven't fucked an 8 since 2014, this is very obviously a fundamentals, not a game thing. Remember chase himself wrote a post https://www.girlschase.com/content/attraction-either-there-or-it-isnt
Saying how the hotness of the best girl you can sleep with reflects your fundamentals and the closing percentage your game.
Just see here: https://krauserpua.com/2014/10/17/good-looking-guy-game/

Krauser PUA said:
One thing I’ve noticed in all the most impressive infields, especially the fast crazy pulls, is the player is always better-looking than the girl he’s pulling. They are failing the younger-hotter-tighter test. And that’s a big failing. The whole point of Game is to score girls younger and hotter than you. If you’re pulling exactly the type of girls you ought to be pulling anyway without Game, then pulling them a bit faster or in higher quantity doesn’t really say much. It just means you’re working a bit harder than you used to. So let’s break this down for the average man. The man who isn’t 6’2”, twenty-seven years old, with attractive facial features. You know, 95% of men.

The single most important factor in r-selection sex is looks (by that I include height, physique and facial structure)

So why do people like Tom and I bang on about r-selection so much when we clearly don’t have looks (or age) going for us? Because the next most important factor is charisma, then attitude, and then work-rate. If you lack the number one factor you can still get the job done by maxing out the other three. It’s just much harder. I don’t mind hard work – I’m just glad it’s even possible.
Often when you post and complain about something, people will tell point out that some of your assumptions are wrong. However, you have regretfully taken THIS approach to such feedback: https://krauserpua.com/2013/12/10/the-perma-chode/

If you instead were willing to update your mental model when people with a functioning mental model of pickup told you the reality is less dark than you apparently imagine, I am sure you could get to a 1 in 50 or 1 in 100 ratio. All these negative assumptions kill the vibe, which has been pointed out to you as a sticking point probably without analyzing the cause.

PS: Note that this reply has plenty of actionable points.
 
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Carousel

Tribal Elder
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I've found myself guilty of doing this at times...
Do you know how could I stop doing it? I try to keep honest about what I do and how I do it. But I sometimes find myself doing such things...
You will not get any more assistance from me.
 

Klimax

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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I am disappointed to read that. However I understand and respect your decision.
This is a big issue... And it has probably played some role in my reaction towards certain things that you've said,and as you know I regret behaving like that.
By making a quick reply it could have not only helped me but Tank and probably other members as well.
Anyway I am disappointed to write this but I acknowledge your choice and I will refrain from seeking your help.
 
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uriel

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@Tank, you may find this mind blowing but not all seducers are looking for sex indiscriminately.

I don't care about 6s... honestly I have felt actually disgusted after kissing or fucking a girl that is way below my standards.

Tinder is great for quick lays with mediocre women and the very ocassional hot cool girl.
If for some reason you need the numbers (you lack experience, you are in a dry spell, you love sex in all its forms, you have ego issues and need a lot of women all the time...) then it is a great tool.

But some of us put more emphasis in quality and challenge than in notch count.
I'd rather fuck ten 10s than a hundred 6s.
 

uriel

Space Monkey
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By the way, if time/cost is a priority for you, you could work on your close rates.

1 in 4 for every Tinder girl you date is very improvable.
Nowadays I probably fuck 70% of the girls I date from Tinder on the first date and I live in a conservative city.
And I’m picky as hell.
(I open my Tinder account every 3 or 4 months and get 2 or 3 dates before I go bored).

1 in 200 for daygame is also very improvable.
 
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