Questioning morality in this situation, help?

[Liturgy]

Not sure where to put this question, but here we go:

I’m a landlord and I was dating a tenant for about 2 months, seeing as we were living in proximity to each other, we had constant contact with one another for those months where we became close, however each time we spent time together, she kept putting out. We've only kissed once. After one night, when I took her to dinner and she put out again, I snapped as it was becoming reminiscent of a past relationship which took me over a year to mentally recover from. I essentially told her I needed to kicked her out of the apartment as I didn’t want to near her, to which she launched into a sob story about her abusive ex and got me to open up about my past relationship. We shared an intimate moment, we hugged for a long time and I kissed her on the forehead and left, after saying that she could stay. I realized at that moment that I could have escalated to sex, but I really didn’t feel comfortable taking it due to the whole power dynamic situation at play. However, after I talked to her a few days later, she friend-zoned me, saying she really liked me but she’s just not ready to be in a relationship right now. She’s moved out 3 weeks later as the contract ended and we haven’t spoken for 3 months.

My question is should I have taken her to bed that night? I feel like starting a relationship like that is the definition of a toxic relationship. I know she probably isn’t the one due to her past, the relationship dynamic (friend-zoned) while I know she’s hooking up with other guys, and the fact that I want to keep improving my game, but I keep thinking about the situation we had despite dating other girls. Should I ever speak to her ever again? And if I do, what frame should I go with? Any opinions?

 

[Troy]

My spider scenes just screams bad idea here. Are you in the US btw?

Check your local laws for more specifics. I have heard of guys getting sued or false rape allegations for stuff like this. Heck, even someone very close in my life who is a landlord ended up in a bad situation. He had an apartment and 2 ladies rented out 2 different rooms. And he was sleeping with the women.

Do you know what happened when COVID hit? The ladies decided to not pay any rent. So this mans income went to zero on the entire 2 bedroom complex.

He was basically held hostage for months. If he tried to kick them out, they would have spoken about how he slept with them. How I found out is a long story... So I will skip that part. The only way he could legally get them to move was to stop taking care of the apartment complex. And thats how he got them to move out.

Edit: Since she moved out, yes legally you can now date her. But you said she friend zoned you. Follow the steps in this article please:

I Don’t Chase 'Em, I Replace 'Em

A couple of fellas have asked on here about cutting contact recently. Here's Matt's comment from the article entitled "Your Mental Model is Flawed": “Can you explain cut off marks (ie, cutting off contact with a girl... say if she doesn't sleep with you or is not responding well) in more detail...

www.girlschase.com

 

[Liturgy]

My spider scenes just screams bad idea here. Are you in the US btw?

Check your local laws for more specifics. I have heard of guys getting sued or false rape allegations for stuff like this. Heck, even someone very close in my life who is a landlord ended up in a bad situation. He had an apartment and 2 ladies rented out 2 different rooms. And he was sleeping with the women.

Do you know what happened when COVID hit? The ladies decided to not pay any rent. So this mans income went to zero on the entire 2 bedroom complex.

He was basically held hostage for months. If he tried to kick them out, they would have spoken about how he slept with them. How I found out is a long story... So I will skip that part. The only way he could legally get them to move was to stop taking care of the apartment complex. And thats how he got them to move out.

Edit: Since she moved out, yes legally you can now date her. But you said she friend zoned you. Follow the steps in this article please:

I Don’t Chase 'Em, I Replace 'Em

A couple of fellas have asked on here about cutting contact recently. Here's Matt's comment from the article entitled "Your Mental Model is Flawed": “Can you explain cut off marks (ie, cutting off contact with a girl... say if she doesn't sleep with you or is not responding well) in more detail...

www.girlschase.com

I know the laws and I know I specifically didn't break any of them. We never had sex, and I made sure to keep it as professional as possible when I was not courting her. I think she's otherwise a reliable person in terms of not taking advantage of a precarious situation, she paid on time and kept the apartment clean and tidy. There wasn't an official contract so I had the right to kick her out at any point.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

however each time we spent time together, she kept putting out.

After one night, when I took her to dinner and she put out again, I snapped as it was becoming reminiscent of a past relationship which took me over a year to mentally recover from. I essentially told her I needed to kicked her out of the apartment as I didn’t want to near her

I'm a little confused... when you say "she kept putting out", and "she put out again", do you mean that she teased you and denied you sex?

As I understand it, put out means giving a man sexual favors. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=put out

I think that's not what you mean but I want to clarify before I respond further to the post.

-Karea Ricardus D.

 

[Liturgy]

I'm a little confused... when you say "she kept putting out", and "she put out again", do you mean that she teased you and denied you sex?

As I understand it, put out means giving a man sexual favors. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=put out

I think that's not what you mean but I want to clarify before I respond further to the post.

-Karea Ricardus D.

Yes my bad, I meant refusing to put out. Lots of touch and proximity but any escalations towards kissing and sex was denied.

 

[Warped Mindless]

I’m a landlord and I was dating a tenant for about 2 months

We've only kissed once

Two months of dating and she only kissed you once?

You two weren’t dating, she was trying to get free rent lol

 

[Liturgy]

Two months of dating and she only kissed you once?

You two weren’t dating, she was trying to get free rent lol

Don't believe so, she always paid on time and never tried to pull any tricks in that regard. Also, it was more like 2 weeks of official dating as some stuff happened in between with an ex of mine.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

I’m a landlord and I was dating a tenant for about 2 months

Not sure if she was trying to finagle you for free rent, but Warped Mindless is right that you shouldn't be dating someone for this long without getting physical. I always make at least an attempt to establish a physical connection the first time I'm alone with her.

This avoids the friend zone 100% of the time! I've not been friend zoned since I was 14 (with the exception of one girl in 2017 I shudder at the memory and how low momentum I was... far more rust than even now...)

seeing as we were living in proximity to each other, we had constant contact with one another for those months where we became close, however each time we spent time together, she kept putting out.

The problem here is the frame of the relationship.

1. It started as a professional relationship... landlord/tenant.
2. It was for a very long time a platonic relationship
3. Then as it became closer, it was not romantic/sexual but "closeness".

You're already deep, deep in damage control mode at this point and it would require pretty advanced framing skills to change it. Your best bet would actually be to stay 100% platonic and then act like you suddenly noticed something sexy about her which changed the way you see her (credit to my mentor CJ for this technique), and then start a regular game / seduction process on her.

she put out again, I snapped as it was becoming reminiscent of a past relationship which took me over a year to mentally recover from. I essentially told her I needed to kicked her out of the apartment as I didn’t want to near her

Never react emotionally to any kind of rejection. It makes you look like you don't have a lot of options in women because if you did... you wouldn't really care about this rejection, and much less would it make you upset.

to which she launched into a sob story about her abusive ex and

Big, big red flag there. Girl going into sob stories when you tell them off for something... I had one of those, was a very bumpy relationship to say the least and ended on good terms (we're still friends) but she was a bit of a problem girl all along.

I kissed her on the forehead and left

Never kiss a girl on the forehead. In Asia they call this the "grandfather kiss" cause only grandfathers kiss girls on the forehead there.

However, after I talked to her a few days later, she friend-zoned me, saying she really liked me but she’s just not ready to be in a relationship right now. She’s moved out 3 weeks later as the contract ended and we haven’t spoken for 3 months.

Yeah... as per the above, she had you in completely the wrong frame and you were very very deep in damage control mode at this point, 2 months without kissing... you should make the relationship physical in the first 10 hours you spend with a girl (cumulatively) at the most.

20 hours is still possible but clunky and looks weak to her... more than 20 hours and you're basically not really a love interest to her unless in a provider/beta frame and even then only if she has no other/better options.

My question is should I have taken her to bed that night? I feel like starting a relationship like that is the definition of a toxic relationship.

Yes. Would have been a toxic relationship.

I know she probably isn’t the one due to her past, the relationship dynamic (friend-zoned) while I know she’s hooking up with other guys

Interesting. So, we can say she's not a "hard to get" kind of girl (according to evolutionary biology, only 1 in 7 girls are that)... she's actually open to dating, mingling, hooking up, getting sexual.

Look, this isn't your fault because you met her in a professional context, and you kept things professional and platonic, which is perfectly fine. The problem is that if you change your mind and want to take it elsewhere, you have to do so EARLY.

My best advice to you is to learn frame control (read Vision's excellent posts about this here - click). And once you understand frames and framing, then learn sexual frames in particular. Teevster has the best material on this topic, both on the blog and the forum.

, and the fact that I want to keep improving my game, but I keep thinking about the situation we had despite dating other girls. Should I ever speak to her ever again? And if I do, what frame should I go with? Any opinions?

If you still want to seduce this girl, I think it's very doable. She clearly has some interest in you, since you guys already kissed. First, get better at the game in general and get a few friends with benefits going.

Then, find some way to run into this tenant of yours "by accident" while you're with one of the girls you're dating casually as friends with benefits, on your arm. The social proof will spark a renewed interest in you.

Then a few days later, reach out to her with something like "hey nice seeing you the other day" and take it from there. Then, run your sexual framing skills on her and hit the reset button, establish a physical relationship more quickly this time. But also keep the red flags in mind.


-Karea Ricardus D.

 

[Liturgy]

Yeah... as per the above, she had you in completely the wrong frame and you were very very deep in damage control mode at this point, 2 months without kissing... you should make the relationship physical in the first 10 hours you spend with a girl (cumulatively) at the most.

20 hours is still possible but clunky and looks weak to her... more than 20 hours and you're basically not really a love interest to her unless in a provider/beta frame and even then only if she has no other/better options.

To clarify what happened, yes I did make the relationship physical on the onset. One night fairly early into meeting her, she invited me to watch a movie with her at her place and I attempted to make a move there, she resisted saying we live in the same building so we can't do this. I took her out on a date the next day and we kissed then. I kept trying to make plans for the next week or two but she kept flaking. That was when a girl I used to see came back into the picture and wanted to be exclusive. I talked to her (the tenant) and told her I preferred to see her but if she was going to keep on flaking I felt it wasn't going to go anywhere. She seemed fine with me dropping her for the other girl, and so I did. It then turned into a platonic/ professional relationship again for about one and a half months while I was dating the other girl when we became close. I broke things off with the other girl one and a half months in and asked her (the tenant) if she wanted to 'pick up where we left off', to which she didn't say anything but implicitly agreed. That was when the events I mentioned above happened. I also found out later she was really insecure about me dropping her for the other girl even though she seemed fine with it initially, and she also seemed really cold and distant any time I bring other women (mostly clients or friends) over.

Other than that, good advice.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

To clarify what happened, yes I did make the relationship physical on the onset.

Oh cool! That's good news.

One night fairly early into meeting her, she invited me to watch a movie with her and I attempted to make a move there, she resisted saying we live in the same building so we can't do this.

Yeah, frame issue. She's concerned about

1. her reputation in the building
2. about what you will think of her
3. about "what happens if we hook up and it ends badly will I lose my apartment"
4. ...and a list of other things.

Learn framing and then learn sexual framing and you can solve this kind of problem.