Should I read "The Game" or "Models"

ninjaboynaru

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Title says it all. Looking for a good book to help my game
I hear "The Game" is more biography than actual lessons and advice on Game where as "Models" is a ton of inner game and nothing else.
 

ulrich

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I haven’t read The Game precisely for that.
Never heard of Models before, though. Who is the author?

If you’re relatively new to game my best suggestions is to read The Attraction Code by Vin Di Carlo.
I think it’s the best resource out there to start your journey.

I would avoid anything by Mystery, Savoy and his followers… it is too focused on routines and night game and has many misconceptions which you will need to weed out later.
I think it is a great resource for intermediates but it hasn’t aged well in my opinion.

Also I would avoid anything by RSD, too much hype, mediocre advice if you ask me.
 

DonGately

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I found Models to be extremely helpful for my game when I was transitioning from beginner to intermediate. Several good concepts in there.
 
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Vision

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I think Models is well worth the read, probably better to start there... I haven't read the Game but I'm sure it's entertaining and fun, since it did so well from a sales standpoint, not sure about the actual content.

IMO, I think you should go listen to, look at, and read anything you can get your hands on until you find something that really resonates with you, since that's the most important thing. Then once you find that, make sure it's legitimate (there's a LOT of bullshit out there) and then model whatever you find until you get somewhat consistent results... then branch off from that to bring in other things that resonate with you as well.

I came from the Mystery Method camp so I have a lot of bias towards them but I know a lot of people feel it's too inauthentic and there are definitely issues from an authenticity standpoint that that has... also, the focus on value, IMO, isn't as good as the focus on framing is, although both work very well. And those things are really the basis for just about everything else that exists out there, for the most part.

There are some other schools out there, like the NLP schools and the pure seduction stuff but I wouldn't start with any of those things, if I were you.

There's also a lot of stuff out there that purely focuses on inner game but most of the people I know who actually do well who focus purely on inner game were either naturals or guys who got good with another method and then ditched the other method (but kept the habits) to join the Church of Inner Game Only.

At this point, there's so much stuff out there... it's really hard to tell someone where they should start without knowing them better... we can just tell you what we think is really good and what works for us... which will be all over the board, since this is kind of a hodgepodge of people from different schools of dating, pickup, and seduction in here.

You could probably skip all that and just start reading some articles on this site, pick your favorite guy to learn from, and then model what they talk about until you get consistent results. Maybe pick up Chase's One Date and start with that? Chase definitely has a lot of good stuff.
 

West_Indian_Archie

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Title says it all. Looking for a good book to help my game
I hear "The Game" is more biography than actual lessons and advice on Game where as "Models" is a ton of inner game and nothing else.

Full disclaimer #1 - I don't like Models.
Full Disclaimer #2 - I like The Game


With both things said, read Models.

Books like Models that are in the same vein as Mark
  • Radical Honesty - Brad Blanton
  • No More, Mr. Nice Guy - Robert Glover
  • Mode One - Alan Roger Currie
And then go out and try what Manson suggests.

If what Mark says resonates with you. If you go out and try what he says and you get success - you have everything you need.
No additional books are needed. No videos, no boot camps. Stop coming to this site. Don't read any pick up material.

If his method fails for you, come back to us, and we'll break it down

WIA
 

Warped Mindless

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Neither.

Go read the blog and get Chase’s book or course.

Then go approach.

Approach enough and you will notice common problems (sticking points) pop up time and time again.

Come back and ask the forum about these sticking points.

Take our input and go back to approaching.

Rinse and repeat.
 

Skills

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Title says it all. Looking for a good book to help my game
I hear "The Game" is more biography than actual lessons and advice on Game where as "Models" is a ton of inner game and nothing else.


The game is a good book about the community and the history and transformation so is inspirational (read it first)

Models is about fundamentals is one of the best books, but the practical stuff such as texting (bad), Vulnerability (is just about 5% of the concept that is kind of bad, the reason is "timing" and most people reading the book will not be advance and since they do not have "timing" right i would advice to ignore that part.... Everything else on point when it comes to "inner" game.... Practical "outer game" no that good, but enough to start of...
 

Toby2030

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A different take than the other guys - I have been through quite a lot of material, and I think if I had to start over I would start with Swingcats real World seduction 2.0 and then Gunwitch's seduction MMA afterwards.
 

Baron

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Depends what you mean by "help your game". What's the end goal? Do you want a rotation of fuck buddies? a relationship? one night stands? Do you want to be authentic or are you more of an "ends justifies the means" person? Similar to what @West_Indian_Archie said, find an author that resonates with you, stick with it if it works for you, avoid reading other contradictory pickup advice that will just leave you confused.
 

Teevster

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Models is decent at best. Some good advice and some bad. That's the issue with most books.
A different take than the other guys - I have been through quite a lot of material, and I think if I had to start over I would start with Swingcats real World seduction 2.0 and then Gunwitch's seduction MMA afterwards.

Ditto.

That said, the game is a fun read but will do nothing or very little to your game. I still consider it a great book though.

Best,
Teevster
 

Will_V

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I read Models and while I agree with pretty much everything in it, it didn't resonate a lot with me. It wouldn't have been a book that would have radically changed my perspective to begin with.

It's not the kind of book that gives you a kick in the arse or a peek into an entirely different kind of world. At best it's something that helps buffer a solid perspective on how to interact with women.

One comment Manson made that I did enjoy was that the problem with men who cannot get anywhere at all with women is almost always because he is out of touch with himself, rather than it being a problem of technique or frame.

There were a few good concepts like that, but overall I didn't find it all that striking. It seemed to me to be a book written for a socially integrated man who wanted to be a bit better with the ladies, rather than someone completely disillusioned with the reality he has found himself with and who wants to rise entirely above it.

Haven't read the Game.
 

Derek da man

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he problem with men who cannot get anywhere at all with women is almost always because he is out of touch with himself,
Couldn't agree more with this - in order for you to improve you first need to ensure you have a realistic view of how others perceive you. If you are overly generous to yourself you will think you are better than you really are so won't have basic communication skills that you need to read situations and be an active participant in a conversation. If you are too hard on yourself you will feel useless and unable to improve or move forward.

I've read Models, it was fairly useful but more aimed at improvers moving into intermediates, some would go over the head of beginners.
No More, Mr. Nice Guy - Robert Glover
I read this but found it quite a hard read in terms of it being presented in quite a technical theory way and I don't read technical information very well. I need things explained in a much more practical way for me to understand - that goes for all my day time technical stuff too so more an individual thing for me I guess.

Being honest, best value articles, in terms of time spent reading and being able to apply practically in field, are Girlschase stuff.
 

Will_V

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Couldn't agree more with this - in order for you to improve you first need to ensure you have a realistic view of how others perceive you. If you are overly generous to yourself you will think you are better than you really are so won't have basic communication skills that you need to read situations and be an active participant in a conversation. If you are too hard on yourself you will feel useless and unable to improve or move forward.
That's very true, although I think it goes deeper than that - there are men who literally don't know who they are, whose momentary experience of themselves is almost completely false. They have lived a life for someone or something else and covered up their own authentic reactions to it in dogma or protective lies.

These men instantly leave a woman cold, regardless of what else about them might be attractive, since a woman predicts a man's ability to understand and validate her by his ability to do so with his own weaknesses - and these men often harbor a concealed violence toward the parts of themselves they despise.
I read this but found it quite a hard read in terms of it being presented in quite a technical theory way and I don't read technical information very well. I need things explained in a much more practical way for me to understand - that goes for all my day time technical stuff too so more an individual thing for me I guess.
I haven't read it but Glovers YouTube talks are fantastic.
Being honest, best value articles, in terms of time spent reading and being able to apply practically in field, are Girlschase stuff.
Agreed!
 

ulrich

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Chase’s mastery book was fantastic. Sadly I think it’s no longer on sale.

I guess One Date should be as good… its a course, though not a book.
 

Warped Mindless

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Chase’s mastery book was fantastic. Sadly I think it’s no longer on sale.

I guess One Date should be as good… its a course, though not a book.
His book is still for sale but you have to scroll to the bottom of his website and click on “Store.” That will list all of his current products including his Ebook.
 

Bismarck

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Books I have enjoyed reading in this space, in no particular order:
  • Death by 1000 sluts (by BodiPUA)
  • Around the world in 80 girls (by Neil Skywalker)
  • 1000 tiny failures (by Tony (aka Zardoz))
  • Game: a cure for loneliness (by George Massey)
  • Models (by Mark Manson)
  • The Game (by Neil Strauss)
  • Sleazy Stories (by Aaron Sleazy)
  • The Alabaster Girl (by Zan Perrion)
  • Day Game (by Tom Torero) - his Street Hustle is also good
  • Get Laid or Die Tryin' (by Jeffy/jlaix)
  • The Rational Male (by Rollo Tomassi)
  • Real World Seduction 2.0 (by swinggcat)
  • Seduction MMA (Gunwitch)
 

ninjaboynaru

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From what I gather, neither is what I'm looking for.
I was looking for a more comprehensive technique focused, with a bit of inner game, type book. Fortunately many of the suggested reads here seem to fallow along those lines.

I'll have to check many of them out
 

Skills

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The reason why models is a good book is cause is the best book on one of the main problems with newer guys which is "onitis, neediness, friendzone" so no matter what is your game style it will address those 3 main issues, specially if you have an ltr, which most guys in the game will get at beginning stages and struggle big time... Which is what i recommend as "inner game"

as WIA says what is your goal for example, if is about the community: "the game" "1000 Tiny Failures" "Get laid of Die Trying" that is community and members and inspirational in general...

if is about indirect "mystery method and his book "the mystery method" and most of his former students book follow that pattern

if is natural game: "Vin di carlo" The attraction code.

if is more loud club: 60 yoc

sex talk: teevester (stuff chase blog)

relationships/break ups: chase (chase blog)

if is humor in seduction: double your dating david d.

if is dancing on clubs: where is the mirror? my stuff...

if is texting/online: pwf probably or my archives here..

if is nlp: a lot of guys play with rickers (i think that is the name)

poly stuff.- caleb jobs main book

^most of the books are pretty much outdated but are still useful, which is why you still may need to write a journal and be active and as wm says just post your sticking points.... Game is fluid, environment changes (for example gaming during corona), technology changes, generational changes... most of those books are written for generation x is not the same gaming generation x than gaming generation z, fundamentally same stuff but there are multiple societal changes is not the same a book about war during napoleon, ww2, iraq war etc... different wars in different time periods...

i would avoid red pill stuff though the rational male you can read but the only thing i find useful in that book is the concept (of dudes feeling that the more they do they are building some type of emotional bank account therefore women owe you) other than that, i would be very careful reading that stuff can take you to a dark path.
 
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ninjaboynaru

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Neither.

Go read the blog and get Chase’s book or course.

Then go approach.

Approach enough and you will notice common problems (sticking points) pop up time and time again.

Come back and ask the forum about these sticking points.

Take our input and go back to approaching.

Rinse and repeat.
Might have to check out the course. I need some sort of structure and homework/plan so I'm not just going out there and doing whatever (been there done that)
 
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