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- Oct 9, 2012
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You're on the wrong forum buddy.
But you win a prize, fastest anyone's ever made it on my ignore list... with just 1 1/2 sentences.
But you win a prize, fastest anyone's ever made it on my ignore list... with just 1 1/2 sentences.
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- Feb 23, 2022
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- 998
If only he hadn't been banned, he could see how quickly he lost face
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- Jan 24, 2021
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Good thread, and lot of good answers.
Not to mention the basic skill of being a cheerful person who pays a modicum of attention to the environment they are in and the person they are talking to.
I also think a big problem is that many guys come to PUA as a way to circumvent having to be successful socially at all. They think 'I'll just use some technique and then I'll just go out of my mom's basement to get some pussy whenever I'm horny'. No need to be successful and outgoing generally, no need to face down obstacles in any other part of their life. They think of game as being a sort of hypnotic trance that completely obfuscates reality for the woman, so they can just remain in the underwhelming reality that created the problems they are trying to fix, and throw a curtain over it whenever they choose.
The other thing is that the beginning of learning seduction, the beginners hell, is by all accounts a difficult stage, even though it's a stage that everyone has to go through more or less, and it's more about persistence than anything else. Those who make it through are already those who will have a predisposition to believing that game will eventually work for them. It's like boot camp, boot camp is not a test of skill it's a test of desire. The skills taught after boot camp could have been learned by anybody, but only those who make it through have shown the desire to learn them.
There are some people, I believe, who are pretty much incapable of going through the beginners hell on their own. They simply do not have the self awareness to solve the problems that for others become almost self evident as soon as they occur. Many guys will do a bad approach, and know instantly it was a bad approach for all sorts of reasons, even if it's the best they could do or the best their current level of self control would allow. But they can replay it back in their head and think 'heh yeah that would have been pretty weird for her, gotta work on this this and that'. Whereas other guys, either because they lack self awareness, or their ego won't allow them to see things clearly, will instantly start blaming the world, the girl, whatever whatever, when anyone could look at what just happened and go 'bro, that needs a lot of work'.
I feel for the guys who have done 1000 approaches with no results (since they at least show commitment to action) but at that stage it's very obvious, and should be obvious to them, that they need someone to come in and diagnose the problem for them, because another 100 approaches won't fix it.
In any case, this is the way it is for any difficult self development - whether it's getting laid, building muscle, earning money, etc. The same mental roadblocks and lure of victim mentality are always present. There's always the person who has started 1000 businesses and none worked out, or spent 10 years at the gym with little to show, and there are always the people who you could give a profitable business to, who would steer it straight into the ground and blame everyone but themselves.
Nothing new under the sun.
Not to mention the basic skill of being a cheerful person who pays a modicum of attention to the environment they are in and the person they are talking to.
I also think a big problem is that many guys come to PUA as a way to circumvent having to be successful socially at all. They think 'I'll just use some technique and then I'll just go out of my mom's basement to get some pussy whenever I'm horny'. No need to be successful and outgoing generally, no need to face down obstacles in any other part of their life. They think of game as being a sort of hypnotic trance that completely obfuscates reality for the woman, so they can just remain in the underwhelming reality that created the problems they are trying to fix, and throw a curtain over it whenever they choose.
The other thing is that the beginning of learning seduction, the beginners hell, is by all accounts a difficult stage, even though it's a stage that everyone has to go through more or less, and it's more about persistence than anything else. Those who make it through are already those who will have a predisposition to believing that game will eventually work for them. It's like boot camp, boot camp is not a test of skill it's a test of desire. The skills taught after boot camp could have been learned by anybody, but only those who make it through have shown the desire to learn them.
There are some people, I believe, who are pretty much incapable of going through the beginners hell on their own. They simply do not have the self awareness to solve the problems that for others become almost self evident as soon as they occur. Many guys will do a bad approach, and know instantly it was a bad approach for all sorts of reasons, even if it's the best they could do or the best their current level of self control would allow. But they can replay it back in their head and think 'heh yeah that would have been pretty weird for her, gotta work on this this and that'. Whereas other guys, either because they lack self awareness, or their ego won't allow them to see things clearly, will instantly start blaming the world, the girl, whatever whatever, when anyone could look at what just happened and go 'bro, that needs a lot of work'.
I feel for the guys who have done 1000 approaches with no results (since they at least show commitment to action) but at that stage it's very obvious, and should be obvious to them, that they need someone to come in and diagnose the problem for them, because another 100 approaches won't fix it.
In any case, this is the way it is for any difficult self development - whether it's getting laid, building muscle, earning money, etc. The same mental roadblocks and lure of victim mentality are always present. There's always the person who has started 1000 businesses and none worked out, or spent 10 years at the gym with little to show, and there are always the people who you could give a profitable business to, who would steer it straight into the ground and blame everyone but themselves.
Nothing new under the sun.
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- Oct 21, 2019
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- 1,794
I was thinking a little more about this…
I wonder if these guys lack any proficient model of seduction in their lives.
Someone they can at least try to model.
If they are not very social and they don’t have many friends, they also probably don’t see many guys sleeping around with different women.
So maybe this seduction proficiency sounds like a fairy tail.
I remember doubting all this seduction advice at several times and then seeing one of my natural friends flirting with a stunner or taking her home and it would cement my belief that being a seducer was possible.
I wonder if these guys lack any proficient model of seduction in their lives.
Someone they can at least try to model.
If they are not very social and they don’t have many friends, they also probably don’t see many guys sleeping around with different women.
So maybe this seduction proficiency sounds like a fairy tail.
I remember doubting all this seduction advice at several times and then seeing one of my natural friends flirting with a stunner or taking her home and it would cement my belief that being a seducer was possible.
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2020
- Messages
- 638
It's not only game though, in any skill set people come saying this "talent" "preborn" plays a way bigger role than it actually does. Of course some people naturally have genes that favor certain activities, but most of the time, the "talented" ones are just people that got exposed and developed the skills needed for that activity pretty early on on their lifes, even if they didn't even realize it.
For game it's even worse because you're dealing with sex and the survival of the species in general, so a bunch of people's agendas and religion and whatnot comes into play, so it's hard for people to accept that game is indeed skill, for that they would have to accept a bunch of other things they already don't.
For game it's even worse because you're dealing with sex and the survival of the species in general, so a bunch of people's agendas and religion and whatnot comes into play, so it's hard for people to accept that game is indeed skill, for that they would have to accept a bunch of other things they already don't.
Talk about being deillusional, now I get why he got banned. I's kinda sad that that's his world, I wouldn't want to live in a world like that. Hopefully he sees that "decent looking, thin, available, non menopausal participant" are actually a decent chunk of the 4 billion women in the world (1 billion at least, dare I say). If I had to narrow down to the girls I would be happy to fuck, maybe 1% of that if I'm really picky, so 1 million women, 1 million shots (I mean, you have multiple with each one in your life if you really want, but hey). Not so bad of a game top play, huh?
I think these guys might just live in very small places where hot women are indeed very scarce comodity, even the ones that could look better wouldn't bother because of low competition. Also many might be "hikikomori"-ish, as they call it in Japan, like incels that live locked in their little cages and only interact with the world through internet, so they think all hot women are taken by "alphas" or rich guys or whatever (since most beautiful girls won't even bother showing themselves that much online since they get what they need from the real world).
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- Joined
- Dec 25, 2012
- Messages
- 1,124
I feel like this could be part of it.
I never doubted the advice, because I had a lot of natural friends as a young kid. Too bad none of that rubbed off on me, I had to learn it on my own as an adult.
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2018
- Messages
- 109
This is interesting topic cause I've seen plenty of cool dudes deny game too. I had a friend who a lot of girls told me is super good-looking... and he's super calibrated, popular, dressed well, amazing at sports, etc. Once I tried talking to him about game and he literally shot me down. Like he got annoyed and said "I feel like that shiz just comes natural bro".
Just want to add a personal anecdote to this, when I first got into seduction I was almost 100% motivated intrinsically. I literally told a friend at the time that I didn’t care about having sex or getting girls. I just thought it was an interesting niche.
But even from that detached perspective on seduction, eventually my ego got involved and I went through bitter moments.
I feel like it is very difficult to not involve your ego in seduction. Like this skill more than any other feels “designed” to mess up your ego and confidence if you aren’t careful. It’s why you see so many dudes get all emotional and deny game (even when the evidence that it’s legit is right there).
So I don’t blame the guys who get all emotional about this stuff.
That said, I feel there are ways to get through those emotional bumps more efficiently. Here’s a short list:
1. Firstly, you need to know that they happen, and respect the game (never fully commit to a girl and never stop flirting with multiple girls).
Just accept, really accept, that you aren’t above the game or your emotions– that you could lose your mind and start simping or get needy or lose your confidence or lose hope. Respecting this possibility will (hopefully) save you a lot of time and heartbreak.
2. Secondly, I think learning about Buddhism is super useful. It teaches you how to detach. I’m no Buddhist expert but I got into it through a game called Rain World– a video game that is crazy difficult and unfair and forces you to learn how to detach through its gameplay. I think it’s a masterpiece, and if it sounds interesting you can read more about it in this article series.
3. Lastly, Chase once recommended a book called Denial of Death and said it was the most important book he had ever read. After reading it I see exactly what he means.
At first the book didn’t seem that practical/useful, but once I started using the core idea to analyze other people’s behavior (and my own), I realized that it really does explain (almost) everything about human motivation/behavior.
Using the idea, I was able to notice a core fault in the way I was approaching life, and JUST the realization (and ruminating on it for a few days) lifted a weight on my spirit. I’ve felt more free and inspired ever since… and it was all due to the key idea that came from Denial of Death. You can buy it on amazon or audible for like $14, I recommend it.
Just want to add a personal anecdote to this, when I first got into seduction I was almost 100% motivated intrinsically. I literally told a friend at the time that I didn’t care about having sex or getting girls. I just thought it was an interesting niche.
But even from that detached perspective on seduction, eventually my ego got involved and I went through bitter moments.
I feel like it is very difficult to not involve your ego in seduction. Like this skill more than any other feels “designed” to mess up your ego and confidence if you aren’t careful. It’s why you see so many dudes get all emotional and deny game (even when the evidence that it’s legit is right there).
So I don’t blame the guys who get all emotional about this stuff.
That said, I feel there are ways to get through those emotional bumps more efficiently. Here’s a short list:
1. Firstly, you need to know that they happen, and respect the game (never fully commit to a girl and never stop flirting with multiple girls).
Just accept, really accept, that you aren’t above the game or your emotions– that you could lose your mind and start simping or get needy or lose your confidence or lose hope. Respecting this possibility will (hopefully) save you a lot of time and heartbreak.
2. Secondly, I think learning about Buddhism is super useful. It teaches you how to detach. I’m no Buddhist expert but I got into it through a game called Rain World– a video game that is crazy difficult and unfair and forces you to learn how to detach through its gameplay. I think it’s a masterpiece, and if it sounds interesting you can read more about it in this article series.
3. Lastly, Chase once recommended a book called Denial of Death and said it was the most important book he had ever read. After reading it I see exactly what he means.
At first the book didn’t seem that practical/useful, but once I started using the core idea to analyze other people’s behavior (and my own), I realized that it really does explain (almost) everything about human motivation/behavior.
Using the idea, I was able to notice a core fault in the way I was approaching life, and JUST the realization (and ruminating on it for a few days) lifted a weight on my spirit. I’ve felt more free and inspired ever since… and it was all due to the key idea that came from Denial of Death. You can buy it on amazon or audible for like $14, I recommend it.
I think of one of the big factors is the fact that it is so easy to adopt alternative views to explain the seduction phenomenon.
Even if one manage to not fail in the LMS trap, it is very easy to fall in the other trap which is thinking seduction depends on fixed personality traits.
During a lot of my life I have thought that I didn't have the "right" personality to be a good seducer.
This is a very nuanced topic because indeed some parts of the personality are fixed and unchangeable, and cannot be treated as a skill, whereas other parts are changeable and can be treated as a skill.
Basically it is difficult to sort out in the personality what depends on the empirical level, from what depends on the ontological level. It is a big leap of faith to start to believe that what belongs to the empirical level is actually modifiable.
Even if one manage to not fail in the LMS trap, it is very easy to fall in the other trap which is thinking seduction depends on fixed personality traits.
During a lot of my life I have thought that I didn't have the "right" personality to be a good seducer.
This is a very nuanced topic because indeed some parts of the personality are fixed and unchangeable, and cannot be treated as a skill, whereas other parts are changeable and can be treated as a skill.
Basically it is difficult to sort out in the personality what depends on the empirical level, from what depends on the ontological level. It is a big leap of faith to start to believe that what belongs to the empirical level is actually modifiable.
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