Special Girl Too strong of a sexual connection? Auto Rejection?

[JacobPalmer]

Hi All,

I got thrown today, and came across something I haven't really experienced before. Feel a bit sick to my stomach as well, as I liked this girl, and she was gorgeous, so just looking for some clarity/insight as to what's going on here, as well as any ways to move forward (if at all).

BACKGROUND: We matched on bumble, good chemistry/banter, convos were a good mix of getting to know her and sexual innuendos etc, and I'd say the texting was pretty on point. On the date it felt on right away, sat close, lots of touching by both of us, laughing, deep diving. Tried to pull home but she said something along the lines of "I like you, so I'd prefer taking things slower and not coming over tonight, as generally that hasn't worked out well for me in the past." I was cool about it, and we talked about seeing each other again a few other times (for a second date) a couple times throughout the night, her bringing some up and me. One point we made out in my car near the end (and she knows I'm Dominant and has brought it up), and was saying things like "mmm yes Daddy, you're a good kisser" and "All I want to do is just please you." But still she would not come home with me. Anyway, tried to set up a second date today, and then she dropped me with a bomb - here is the text exchange:

https://imgur.com/a/7optvG0

I probably didn't respond 100% correctly, but whatever. I just want some clarity as to wtf happened here.

 

[Velasco]

1) You didn't solve her objection ("not coming over tonight, as generally that hasn't worked out well for me in the past.") Here I would have found out exactly what happened to her in the past. And If I felt like it was something that was quite dramatic/traumatizing, and not something that could be easily be overcome via frame control, then I would have avoided making mistake #2 which was
2) Escalating past the point of no return without sleeping with her = ASD.

 

[Watts]

Tell her that

"We are, all of us, many different people. We're lovers, scholars, fighters, explorers, poets, and friends. Maybe we spent too much time getting to know each others as lovers but we neglected all these other people that we are. I for one can't wait to meet you again to see who shows up."

But, other than that (which is just me riffing, only use it if you feel you like it and it's congruent), I agree with Velasco. You probably overcooked her and in this case, with her telling you "It didn't work out" how she wanted it before, would seem like she wants to know a relationship is possible (or to put it another way, get more comfort).

The other way, long term, is to find a way to keep texting and be friendly, dial down the sexual intent a bit, and then try to pounce on some good momentum to set a new date.

But take my texting advice with a grain of salt. I'm much more competent in person.

Also, consider posting the older conversations from the start and we can see if there is something there.

And, for the sake of completeness, there is a school of thought (I got this from YaReally I believe) that actually says you should have just completely ignored that rejection text i.e. let her wonder if you even received it. Then either wait for her to contact you or try contacting her in a few weeks as if she never sent it (and when she may be in a different emotional or mental space). Not to mention the possibility that it's simply another guy (which may or may not work out). But by not responding (and yes, too late now), you leave things as an "open loop".

 

[JacobPalmer]

1) You didn't solve her objection ("not coming over tonight, as generally that hasn't worked out well for me in the past.") Here I would have found out exactly what happened to her in the past. And If I felt like it was something that was quite dramatic/traumatizing, and not something that could be easily be overcome via frame control, then I would have avoided making mistake #2 which was
2) Escalating past the point of no return without sleeping with her = ASD.

I tried to deal with the objection (as she said guys would only sleep with her and then bail), by telling her I liked her and want to see her again, that it's cool if we don't sleep with each other tonight, by saying to just come for a few minutes for ice cream etc. Tried a lot of things.

I hear you, it is probably ASD. But it was only some light making out in my car near the end of the night. It's just that the sexual chemistry was basically always on the whole night.

 

[JacobPalmer]

The older convos will be way too long, and looking back I don't think there's anything to gleam from them. Everything was on point, investment on both sides was equal (although she would start convos 90% of the time and text me almost daily). It probably is just ASD. Although I did do some more prying and she ended up saying that she's more interested in dating someone else right now (although who knows if that's true or not).

I'm guessing the best way I can leave this door open is something like "Well, I appreciate the honesty. You can give me a call if things don't work out, but I may not be around. I wish you all the best XXX. x" Thoughts?

 

[Watts]

My honest thought is that she won't call. And she doesn't need you to explicitly keep the door open, she knows it is open (just basic male/female dynamics and her rejecting you), not to mention she's on bumble so she is more than comfortable reaching out to a guy.

So the question is what do you gain from that text?

And it seems like you were communicating with her for a long time prior to the meet (I still think you should post those, you never know what someone else might see that you missed).

In my mind the only more or less long term move is to leverage the connection you guys already had from the long communication period to somehow re-open some time down the line (a few weeks maybe? This really isn't anything I'm too certain of).

From there, pretend this whole thing didn't happen, just try to get back into the texting pattern you had before and try to get her out.

But even with that, it's probably 10X the effort you'd need for a new girl with a much lower chance of creating the actual meet. However, I know how it can feel when you are just about to "punch up" in looks (and personality) and these can be hard to let go.

 

[Watts]

I was just looking over your texts, that "sweet dreams" and also trying to lock down a meet immediately after the date may have come off as needy.

Also, you just opened with asking her schedule, instead of some fun fluff (get her in a social mood with you), or a spike or something else. That also may be the cause of her rejection here.

Also, in your second text in a row (when the first was unanswered), you suggested dessert at your place. Perhaps a bit aggressive to a girl who told you she didn't want to go home with you the last time you two were together, particularly without any setup.

 

[JacobPalmer]

I doubt she'd call either, but it's happened for me a few times in the past if the door is left open. I was communicating with her since the 27th, and we had our date last night, so a week total.

I still don't think posting the rest of the texts will do anything, only because it's the most most current info that's most useful (she came out on a date, she had a great time, felt lots of sexual chemistry, but is more interested in trying to date someone else etc). I feel like posting the rest would just be nitpicking at things that don't have any effect on how she felt on/after the date.

I suppose the only point of that text would be to leave the door open, show I'm not butthurt about anything, and then drop off and pursue someone else, without having to put any more work in.

 

[JacobPalmer]

I was just looking over your texts, that "sweet dreams" and also trying to lock down a meet immediately after the date may have come off as needy.

Also, you just opened with asking her schedule, instead of some fun fluff (get her in a social mood with you), or a spike or something else. That also may be the cause of her rejection here.

Also, in your second text in a row (when the first was unanswered), you suggested dessert at your place. Perhaps a bit aggressive to a girl who told you she didn't want to go home with you the last time you two were together, particularly without any setup.

They just seem rather small things for her to outright reject like that, especially when she's saying she felt a "incredible sexual connection" with me. Also keep in mind that she did tell me she was more interested in dating someone else. I mean maybe, but those just feel so insignificant to the overall picture.

 

[Watts]

I still don't think posting the rest of the texts will do anything, only because it's the most most current info that's most useful (she came out on a date, she had a great time, felt lots of sexual chemistry, but is more interested in trying to date someone else etc). I feel like posting the rest would just be nitpicking at things that don't have any effect on how she felt on/after the date.

Also, you labeled her a "special girl" and called her gorgeous. You may be unconsciously altering your behaviors here with a girl you feel is a step above your normal. It's up to you though, only here to help.

I suppose the only point of that text would be to leave the door open, show I'm not butthurt about anything, and then drop off and pursue someone else, without having to put any more work in.

Yeah, and it does do that. Plus adds "I may not be around" which I like. The problem is it leaves it up to her 100%, and if this really was a stretch for you, it's hard to imagine her reengaging (especially considering that right now you left a bad taste in her mouth, might as well fire up the app and get to swiping again).

I'm just brainstorming on ways that maybe you can re-engage in a few weeks or so, if it's that important to you. But again, I'm a bit out of my depth here, I'm no texting expert.

 

[Watts]

They just seem rather small things for her to outright reject like that, especially when she's saying she felt a "incredible sexual connection" with me. Also keep in mind that she did tell me she was more interested in dating someone else. I mean maybe, but those just feel so insignificant to the overall picture.

The point was your texting post date seemed a little needy (to me), and also you didn't set up for a new date properly. Actually you commented in a thread with POB, here https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...-seem-to-respond-when-i-ask-to-meet-up.21830/,

Did you understand what POB meant by "move it to date pitching when buying temperature is high"?

You didn't seem to do post date.

And, better is better. It's important that you're fixing the bad behaviors wherever and whenever you find them, so that when you have a small margin you'll make it through.

And when did she tell you about this someone else, in this post date exchange of texts?

 

[JacobPalmer]

Also, you labeled her a "special girl" and called her gorgeous. You may be unconsciously altering your behaviors here with a girl you feel is a step above your normal. It's up to you though, only here to help.



Yeah, and it does do that. Plus adds "I may not be around" which I like. The problem is it leaves it up to her 100%, and if this really was a stretch for you, it's hard to imagine her reengaging (especially considering that right now you left a bad taste in her mouth, might as well fire up the app and get to swiping again).

I'm just brainstorming on ways that maybe you can re-engage in a few weeks or so, if it's that important to you. But again, I'm a bit out of my depth here, I'm no texting expert.

What do you mean by a bad taste in her mouth?

Haha yeah fair enough, I appreciate the brainstorming. I don't think I was altering my behaviors, because again, keep in mind she texted me saying she had a great time, and that we had strong sexual chemistry. Even if I was altering my behaviors, based on that info it sounds like it was altered in a good way.

 

[Watts]

What do you mean by a bad taste in her mouth?

She doesn't reflect on your time together with fondness.

Haha yeah fair enough, I appreciate the brainstorming. I don't think I was altering my behaviors, because again, keep in mind she texted me saying she had a great time, and that we had strong sexual chemistry. Even if I was altering my behaviors, based on that info it sounds like it was altered in a good way.

Maybe, maybe not. I can't even begin to tell you if you don't open it to evaluation.

And the point was maybe there was something in the prior, pre-date exchange that could have predicted this, or been done differently.

All I'll say is it's unlikely you are "sick to your stomach" right now, with her canceling on you, and had complete equanimity prior and on the date. That's not usually how it works. But that's just my opinion.

 

[JacobPalmer]

The point was your texting post date seemed a little needy (to me), and also you didn't set up for a new date properly. Actually you commented in a thread with POB, here https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...-seem-to-respond-when-i-ask-to-meet-up.21830/,

Did you understand what POB meant by "move it to date pitching when buying temperature is high"?

You didn't seem to do post date.

And, better is better. It's important that you're fixing the bad behaviors wherever and whenever you find them, so that when you have a small margin you'll make it through.

And when did she tell you about this someone else, in this post date exchange of texts?

Fair, I could have been a bit more gradual. I felt that after the date the prior night things were already high though. And this would have been a second date, not a first.

True, maybe I could have done a few small things differently/fix, and will do so.

I did do post date? she said she had a great time, I said I had a great time, and she said "okay" to the suggestion of doing something next week after I had my schedule. Unless you're meaning something else by post date?

She told me after I pryed a bit after this text exchange, like an hour ago.

 

[JacobPalmer]

She doesn't reflect on your time together with fondness.



Maybe, maybe not. I can't even begin to tell you if you don't open it to evaluation.

And the point was maybe there was something in the prior, pre-date exchange that could have predicted this, or been done differently.

All I'll say is it's unlikely you are "sick to your stomach" right now, with her canceling on you, and had complete equanimity prior and on the date. That's not usually how it works. But that's just my opinion.

But that's way overanalyzing things Watts. If she's out on a date with you then the texting was good enough. If she says she felt a great sexual chemistry with me then the date obviously went fairly well (at least in terms of attraction). There's always something that could be done differently/better. You're overthinking this.

What do you mean by your last line?

 

[Watts]

Fair, I could have been a bit more gradual. I felt that after the date the prior night things were already high though. And this would have been a second date, not a first.

I'd probably make the distinction of "post-sex" date and "pre-sex" date, with any number of "pre-sex" dates having to be handled with a certain amount of consciousness in order to move forward to sex.

Having had sex, that sort of exchange may not have been an issue at all (if it was an issue, I see it as a small one but possibly).

True, maybe I could have done a few small things differently/fix, and will do so.

I did do post date? she said she had a great time, I said I had a great time, and she said "okay" to the suggestion of doing something next week after I had my schedule. Unless you're meaning something else by post date?

Yes, and I was pointing out that you may have been to eager to confirm and make the next date.

Also you texted about the date around noon, then followed up with another text trying to schedule directly after. I would text that way to a girl I was already fucking and expect compliance, not necessarily a girl I hadn't fucked yet.

Do you see that distinction?

She told me after I pryed a bit after this text exchange, like an hour ago.

And that could have been it regardless. Which is also why nailing the date (and her!), and following Velasco's advice is preferable to all this. Because end of the day, she'll probably date the first guy who fucks her (provided he wants to / doesn't fuck it up after).

 

[Watts]

But that's way overanalyzing things Watts. If she's out on a date with you then the texting was good enough. If she says she felt a great sexual chemistry with me then the date obviously went fairly well (at least in terms of attraction). There's always something that could be done differently/better. You're overthinking this.

If you find me thinking about, analyzing, and trying to help you solve this problem is no longer what you want, say no more, I'll stop responding to this thread.

No hard feelings, it just may no longer be productive for you.

What do you mean by your last line?

Equanimity is a state of calm balance. I'm saying if her rejecting you like this has thrown you off balance, it's unlikely you were really on balance leading up to it. Something to think on (or better yet, meditate).

Best of luck!

 

[JacobPalmer]

I'd probably make the distinction of "post-sex" date and "pre-sex" date, with any number of "pre-sex" dates having to be handled with a certain amount of consciousness in order to move forward to sex.

Having had sex, that sort of exchange may not have been an issue at all (if it was an issue, I see it as a small one but possibly).



Yes, and I was pointing out that you may have been to eager to confirm and make the next date.

Also you texted about the date around noon, then followed up with another text trying to schedule directly after. I would text that way to a girl I was already fucking and expect compliance, not necessarily a girl I hadn't fucked yet.

Do you see that distinction?



And that could have been it regardless. Which is also why nailing the date (and her!), and following Velasco's advice is preferable to all this. Because end of the day, she'll probably date the first guy who fucks her (provided he wants to / doesn't fuck it up after).

I do see the distinction. Maybe could have affected something, maybe not. But you're right, even if that increased my chances by 1% it would have been the correct move. Although I don't see that exchange making a girl think "Woah he's needy now I'm gonna bail" etc. I do see what you're saying though.

Yeah, fuck I should have just tried to turn her on more and more until she gave in. And yeah, she probably will.

 

[JacobPalmer]

If you find me thinking about, analyzing, and trying to help you solve this problem is no longer what you want, say no more, I'll stop responding to this thread.

No hard feelings, it just may no longer be productive for you.



Equanimity is a state of calm balance. I'm saying if her rejecting you like this has thrown you off balance, it's unlikely you were really on balance leading up to it. Something to think on (or better yet, meditate).

Best of luck!

Ahh, apologies, I do appreciate the the insight. I'm just saying that the current info is what's most important in this case. But correct, I don't think the prior text exchanges will be productive to either of us.

Hmm, fair point. I suppose I just wasn't expecting it, as I felt things went really well, and that things would progress with her. Hence why I felt blindsided. I will meditate on this though, thanks.

Also, just a side note, as my messages may be coming across as annoyed or frustrated. It's not aimed at you, I'm just frustrated this happened.

 

[Watts]

I do see the distinction. Maybe could have affected something, maybe not. But you're right, even if that increased my chances by 1% it would have been the correct move. Although I don't see that exchange making a girl think "Woah he's needy now I'm gonna bail" etc. I do see what you're saying though.

I don't see it making her think that either.

I see her becoming emotionally uncomfortable, not understanding why, and then coming up with a separate but related thought to justify her emotional reaction and reject you ("fit for different people") a.k.a. "rationalizing"

Yeah, fuck I should have just tried to turn her on more and more until she gave in. And yeah, she probably will.

That's not what Velasco said, he said figure out her objection and address it. Also Teevster has some great points about making her feel "allowed" to get turned on with you before you turn her in (very insightful in my opinion). Go read his "purity gambit" and his and my recent exchanges for some ideas.

Probably some sexual frames during the date to make her feel at ease, dealing with the underlying objection (though some empathizing, and if possible), and then turning her on and sealing the deal would have been the best strategy (and probably the most fun!).