Transitioning after the open - hooking

greenleaf

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Lets here some thoughts on peoples most effective 'transitions' to help hook a set after opening girls at night in bars etc. (groups, singles etc)

There's not many PUA books I've not read or programs I've not seen so it's likely that I'll learn nothing new, but you just never know, hence i'm asking!

I've been in the game a few years now and have racked up some lays, but after a fairly rough night recently where I wasn't able to even get close to the hook point in 95% of sets, I'm feeling more strongly than ever that it's really just a numbers game to find girls who are just social girls who are into you (in which case, everything works to 'hook' them if they are, and nothing seems to work If they're not). But i'd love to have my mind changed lol.

If we assume for the sake of the thread that the initial open is a simple 'hey' or maybe an observational opener about their drink or their clothes or whatever (i.e - the opener itself in this instance isn't one that kind of has a long 'inbuilt' transition like, say, a roleplay opener might) -I tend to do a mixture of make observations that I notice (''I like that jacket, bla bla bla''), ask questions in a challenging way as per JulienRSD and try to spike from their answers, (''Where are you from?! Oh really! Tha'ts not good. We can't be friends now bla bla'') and make cold reads etc (''you look like you do something in fashion. No? Oh.. bla bla bla''). However, this weekend was a good example of these techniques simply not being powerful enough (unless the girl is simply attracted to me) and I was generally ignored/rejected by hot, young girls who had zero interest in talking lol.

I don't think it's an issue of body language or anything - mainly because in certain environments (such as when I visit the US and also when I travelled Eastern Europe) these kind of rejections were much rarer, not to mention that I've gotten laid from cold approach a good handful of times now which suggests that that's not the issue. I feel If I had some sort of huge issue with tonality/body language etc, i'd have not gotten any lays

It makes me want to look into other 'canned' routines to dive into after the open to give me the best shot of having a 'fun' interaction for them, but every example I've come across seems too cheesy to me, and it seems to be confirmed by the girls reactions when I test it. They seem to think it's as weird as I do to start doing parlour tricks and strawberry fields and DHV stories etc after I say 'hi' (just comes across as weird if used before rapport. In fact, I believe even 'mystery' himself has backtracked somewhat over the years and now also only uses lots of his routine stuff later in the interaction)

Leaves me with the same issue of how to hook these tough sets. My instincts are telling me that maybe it's simply not possible lots of the time (hense why so many 'pros' admit to getting rejected all of the time) and that it really is all just a numbers game to find the girls who think you are hot AND who are just sociable, friendly girls, but i'd love to hear some ideas none-the-less!

So - Give me 'after open' Convo snippets and routines and fun convo examples/topics and soundbites/techniques etc that you use after opening girls at night in order to give yourself the best shot at hooking them. I'll test some out this weekend
 

Velasco

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Give me 'after open' Convo snippets and routines and fun convo examples/topics and soundbites/techniques etc that you use after opening girls at night in order to give yourself the best shot at hooking them
This is my hooking structure:
Hover
Situational spike opener
Spike based off her answer
Question to get in return (nationality. age.)
Spike
Isolate (laughing high note - I’m thirsty come get a drink with me real quick) or open loop (lets sit right here and I’ll tell you)

Hover (self explanitory)

Situational spike opener (I believe this is the difference from the traditional "observational opener" where you open the girl based off of something shes wearing/doing at the moment like her drink or her dress. I see that you spike after she gives you an answer. See with mine, the girl gets spiked immediately off the open VS "it's a gin and tonic" "thanks it's actually my sister's jacket". So rather than replying to your observational opener and then kinda "haha"ing your follow up cold read, She instead gets double the spike. Once from the opener. And then again from the follow up spike to whatever she says. So it looks like

Girl crossing her arms looking bored

Standing in front of her imitating her posture and facial expression in an extremely exaggerated way, "That's literally what you look like right now. Can you see why no guys are coming up to you?" - so that shes smiling.

Spike off her answer/reaction - "NO! Now you're smiling WAY too much. Your gonna attract the wrong type of guy with that face. Here let me help you. Ok put your hands like this (recross her arms) ok good. Now try to get rid of the smile. You look way too overexcited right now. Ok good. But just a littttttle more like you dont give a fuck about anything in life. Perfect. NOW you look amazing (the joke if it wasn't obvious is that you've put her in the same exact posture and facial expression she had before started critiquing her for it at the open).

Inquiries about her nationality (or in your case, what city/parts of U.K. she grew up in) and her age (you can do the classic age disqualifer "omg ur too young/old for me" but the real reason you want to ask these two questions is for her to ask you them in return. Which you'll either make her guess first or give a ridiculous answer first then give her the real answer for investment on her part. Which really solidifies hooks.

Lastly isolate is optional

If you've already approached a girl where you can easily hear her just fine, and shes away from her friends, then no point to move her, just go straight into your routines from here. Otherwise, you'll want to either spike her again (can be easy to come up with something easy from the nationality/age thread) so that you move her to an isolated spot on a high note. Or you give her parts of an answer she asked you a question about, to use as leverage to move her from potential distractions.
 
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greenleaf

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Cheers, @Velasco

I had a feeling that only you would reply! :) Yeah, as we discussed previously, our overall methods don't seem to be a million miles apart.
I guess there's the possibility you're a lot better looking than me too! haha
But yeah, from reading your reply, I already do things in a very similar fashion (maybe not surprising since we've likely read the same material) so that's something, I guess.
 

Velasco

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I'm feeling more strongly than ever that it's really just a numbers game to find girls who are just social girls who are into you
Correct. Chase talks about this in this article on making the mental switch from "creating" attraction to "finding" attraction:

Your focus must not be on trying to create this attraction BEFORE you meet the girl. It should be on finding attraction, instead. This doesn't mean you are not using game. You're still using all your verbal techniques, your ability to touch, your grasp of logistics, and all the rest. However, that stuff comes AFTER you find a woman who is receptive to you.


(in which case, everything works to 'hook' them if they are, and nothing seems to work If they're not)
However I disagree with the premise that everything works to hook them in if they're both social and think you're hot. She might for instance think you're quite boring or weird (this is very much the case in cities were hot guys are abundant...in cities where hot guys are rarer, this might not be the case). (the girl that I ended up making out with last week, commented on how the previous guy that had just approached her was weird (I had spoken with him earlier...and he definitely wasn't an autistic sperg lol). Even tho he was a good looking 6' 2" blonde blue eyed white guy). Another one example that just came to mind, my main wing used to be this black handsome ripped dude. On this particular outing, it was me, my wing, his fuckbuddy, and this girl I had just fucked the previous weekend that I wanted to convert to fuckbuddy status (spoiler: I did). She was like at least 3 SMV points higher than any other girl in the club. So she gets away from her group and sees me and my wing. And this point I hadn't really hooked her into me, so anybody in the club could have just taken her from me and she'd not give a fuck about it. So she goes up to my wing, her body language is like she's really attracted to him, and she asks him what does the "F" stand for on his cap? He could have said, "it stands for fuck white bitches, get money" and she'd completely forget about me. Unfortunately he just answered her with a straight answer, "Fordham" (his university) and I could see how INSTANTLY her attraction for him just dropped. and Noped the fuck on outta there back to her group.
 
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BigPapa

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From my experience , it is just about if she finds you attractive or not :)

ofc fundamentals are big , but it is all about if she likes your type or not . It always best to wear Chelsea boots , jeans and a plain t shirt , this way you look neutral and she will at least stay in the set to decide if she finds you attractive or not :)

is less relevant what you say and way more relevant how you are perceived
 

BigPapa

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Also , this is my opinion . Good looking is better than being smart , and being smart is better than being ugly . Always keep this in mind when you are looking for your baby mama :)
 

BigPapa

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Also what is important to know is that attraction it is either there or not . You can not really create attraction from nothing . This is done exclusively through fundamentals .

where game kicks in is when the girl is on the edge about you , meaning not knowing for sure if you are an attractive guy or not . That is where the game begins .

On the contrary if she knows for sure that you are an attractive guy things will go smoothly With almost no game needed , and you just need not To fuck it up :)
 

Velasco

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where game kicks in is when the girl is on the edge about you , meaning not knowing for sure if you are an attractive guy or not . That is where the game begins .
Guys who are unable to fuck girls that weren't sure about them, would like to believe that it's a game of finding girls who think your hot (which may be only 25% (depending on how good looking you are) of the girls on any given night ), rather than receptive girls (which would be 50-75% of girls). Its in the later category where you'll find the girls you really want (rather than relying on luck and finding the odd ball hot girl who thinks your hot).
 

BigPapa

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@Velasco i think we talk about the same thing just that we use different words . I am not into this pua lingo :)

basically what I am saying is that if a girl is receptive to you , she either finds you an attractive guy ( which is the best spot to be) , either she is not sure about you just yet and is curious to see what the cat has in the bag . After she will decide that indeed you are an attractive guy she will be hooked , if she decides that you are not an attractive guy she will either go cold or flat out reject you .

if you have another opinion please share it with me as maybe I am missing something , as I am just talking from my own experience
 

BigPapa

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For me being an attractive guy means just that you have solid fundamentals , and hopefully people that will read this thread will hopefully read till this message :)

you can be the most handsome guy in the world , but if you dress like shit ,smell bad ,Walk like you just been raped by a bear, etc , girls will not talk with you no matter how much game you will learn .
 

Chrance

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Attractive men look and act a certain way. You can judge a man pretty adequately just by looking at him and seeing how he behaves (especially in the face) without even talking to him. From subtle ticks in his face you can glean if he’s a fake or not, what his motives are, how smart he is, etc. Only when a man starts talking to you does your capacity to judge him objectively fall apart, because once he starts speaking words your focus darts all over the place and if he’s a smooth talker you will develop a false impression of him that you didn’t have before. This is true when men interact with each other, and it is amplified between men and woman. A mans eyes, voice and choice of words have a strong hypnotic effect on women, similar to music. In this way a woman’s perception of you can be subdued with the potential of making you appear more attractive in the same way that a song you love can make your environment appear less dull.

Something I’ve done that has helped me get and keep the girls attention is to have a list of 30-50 basic date questions memorized. Like right now, what are some things you’d ask a woman over the course of the seduction?
1. What brings you out here tonight?
2. Are these your buddies?
3. Is this your favorite club?
4. What do you think about this music?
...
30. What’s the weirdest place you’ve fucked?

Some of them may be boring, but they can set a pace to the interaction so that you are never left without fuel, so to speak. I’ve neglected memorizing these questions and I pay the price when I go out a lot and forget them or when I think I’ve “moved on” from them only to find myself in a circumstance where something like “so what do you do when you’re bored?” would have kept me on track. These questions won’t make you a stud but they will definitely add some back bone to your sets. They’re more for you than the girl tbh. Try recalling them from memory and not from a written list, that way they will be easier to recall in set.

Another thing I’ve done that has helped with hooking is to have actual opinions (positions I can argue basically) on several relevant and interesting topics such as
1. The vibe of the venue
2. Relaxation
3. Music
4. Male Female Relations
5. Fashion
6. Sex

(Relaxation and Fashion I’m still a rookie at discussing but I’ve found they have a lot of potential)

That way I have things I can speak confidently about with views that are likely new or unorthodox (thus intriguing, showing intelligence and perceptiveness) to the woman (but this does not mean acting like a know it all or speaking out trivia you learned on the internet).

But a warning: the questions and topics are best thought out, memorized and practiced outfield. IMO infield you should stay focused on finding those good sets, going hard, with a couple routines to consciously practice. I don’t want to accidentally give anyone more AA lol. Anything you consciously do infield is a mental burden and possibly a double edged sword since you can potentially appear out of character and try hard (= always bad).

Something I’ve been meaning to do, now that @Valesco mentioned it, is to have a couple generic spikes or stimulating quips memorized. So this is some weekday homework

A note on routines: they are best practiced from memory, not from a written script; they should be treated like a foreign language, easy to memorize but easy to forget if negligent; it’s best to use material you’ve thought thoroughly out yourself
 

BigPapa

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I am firm believer that rather than focusing all this energy and mental work on memorizing stuff , it is better just to train your intuition . On the medium and long term is a really good investment .

From experience , when I am talking with really gorgeous women , I do not even remember my name , so all this memorizing in this kind of situations is for nothing as they can not be used . But when I start calming myself by repeating things like “she is not special because every woman has guy that is bored shagging her “ , “ all women poop “ or just telling myself she has a hairy butthole my mind becomes clearer and my intuition kicks in . After the intuition kicks in , you will focus so much on the discussion itself that you will forget that she is gorgeous or that she has a hairy butthole haha .

what i also noticed is that the Whole discussion feels more natural to both of us and the bonding is done at Faster pace when you just go with the flow , rather than Trying to remember things . Women can sense when you are thinking what to do or say next and the magic disappears for both of you :)
 
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flatron

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girls can sometimes be 'receptive' to your approach, but they are still hard no girls who have absolutely no attraction towards you and nothing you say or do will help.
 

BigPapa

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totally agree , but the opener itself can be also non verbal and on the spot based on how you feel it , like just smiling at her :) .

me personally I am not a big fan of night game , so have no idea if this would work there , but on day game it is a solid one
 

Velasco

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girls can sometimes be 'receptive' to your approach, but they are still hard no girls who have absolutely no attraction towards you and nothing you say or do will help
Lol. There is no such thing as a friendly NO girl. You just dont know how to get girls who aren't into you from the get go. So its easier to sit here and label anyone who doesn't make it easy for you as a NO.

I am firm believer that rather than focusing all this energy and mental work on memorizing stuff , it is better just to train your intuition
I would say as I beginner you should start off freestyling after reading a couple of articles/books/videos online to improve your intuition. Then you can move on to routine game. (i.e. forming routines to set frames, and elicit values/screen. Here is a really good recent one from Pablo:

Ironically one of the main benefits of routine game, is that I DON'T have to waste mental energy trying to set sexual frames in my interactions anymore)

Faster pace when you just go with the flow , rather than Trying to remember things
And once your routines are memorized. There is no "trying to remember things" (only time I struggle is when I've had one too many drinks lol)

Women can sense when you are thinking what to do or say next and the magic disappears for both of you
The magic is in making it look natural, mi amigo ;)
 

flatron

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disagree lol - with experience you know when she's a 'no', even if she is talking back etc
 

Velasco

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Let's differentiate "Receptive" from "talking back."

A girl answering your questions with one word answers while looking around the room is a NO.

A girl answering your questions and then asking you questions in return. But then excuses herself once the conversation hits a lull, because you've ran outta things to say or because conversation's going no where, or rejects your attempt at physically escalating because she isn't ready yet, does not make her a NO.
 
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