Socializing Value offered and what you get

[Searcher]

I was reading the article on value and have questions of this value exchange and the nuances of it.

For women the value you provide must be of a lover and that means what is basically required is your ability to sexualize a conversation, deep diving, inspiring, etc and none of these require anything of material value as in you don't have to be richer than or more professionally successful than the girl to be valuable and the end result of this is the whole sex - relationship stuff which is valuable to women because they value emotions a lot.

However between your interactions with other men what value can you possibly provide or get? Because as far as giving value things like having a conversation might not be much valuable to them because they won't place a lot of importance on emotions and it seems to be a hanging out thing. (if we did men would be as skilled as woman in socialising at the same age).

And most men I have met seem to value things that help them move forward in career/profession or making more money than anything. But for that you should have to better than them in that field.

As far as providing help in improving their hobbies like gym/music/etc is concerned it is very disposable because they don't value it as much as their career/profession and this trading of me helping them in their hobby and them helping in advancing my career never works out and always results in the same way (that is they deflect attempts to help me to get professional contacts and I withdraw my help in their hobbies).

Because as far as your hobbies is concerned you can always get information on the net and can even pay someone who is better in that(ex - a fitness trainer/a music teacher/etc).

And as far as career/profession is considered you have to get contacts through the clients you work for because they would have seen the work you do and it will be valuable to them to have you work with them.

So how do you have the value trading with other men or is it best to consider them as just hang out buddies?

Social Value and Value Imbalances

Value's a frequent subject of the articles on this site - we talk about ways to increase your passive value and value and attraction a great deal, while reducing "active value" (trying to talk up your value - if you have to say it, it isn't true), and we also talk about screening women carefully...

www.girlschase.com

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

I wouldn't keep score on value being traded with other men. Just always add value whenever you can, all in the context of just hanging out and shooting the shit. There's no agenda, just friendship and mutual interests.

Is there a specific situation you're facing that prompted this question? A sticking point where you're having trouble connecting with high-value men? Maybe if you describe what's going on a little more we can give more useful suggestions.

 

[Searcher]

I wouldn't keep score on value being traded with other men. Just always add value whenever you can, all in the context of just hanging out and shooting the shit. There's no agenda, just friendship and mutual interests.

Is there a specific situation you're facing that prompted this question? A sticking point where you're having trouble connecting with high-value men? Maybe if you describe what's going on a little more we can give more useful suggestions.

Hanging out and shoot shit happens and it's mostly restricted to that. We vibe well and I wouldn't say I consider any of them a extremely charismatic or charming person as in I have other people who I am closer with and rather hang out than these people.

Incase of sticking point the situation is that they are bit older and further in their careers than me and the thing I need from them is professional contacts. I did provide value to them by helping them in improving their skills in a mutual hobby by giving free coaching in music.
And it just so happens that when I raise the topic of getting professional contacts they deflect it and this disappoints me which makes me withdraw my help (they come back asking for tips but now even I deflect).

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

I see... yeah so I see a few problems here. As I said in my post, exchanging value among high-level alpha guys is done in the context of friendship and shared / common interest. This is not the case in your situation.

1. You don't like them that much (you said you're rather hang out with other people), maybe this comes across in subtle ways or even if it doesn't, it means you don't have a genuine bond with these men.

2. You're not sharing freely out of a genuine connection you share with them, you do so in the hopes of getting something back... it's tit for tat, very different from what I described (giving value freely without keeping score).

When you give value to someone just to build reciprocity, in the hopes of getting value in return, it can work, but it doesn't always. It's agenda driven rather than sincere, so you can't really be upset if it doesn't forge a real social bond.

The fact that you have now withdrawn your help must also have tipped them off that you were just trying to get something all along. Or maybe they were being unreasonably cagey with their contacts, it's impossible to know without more background info.

In any case it seems they deem these contacts more valuable than music lessons, or the reciprocity principle would probably have kicked in regardless of whether they wanted to or not, just because it's human psychology. But, you can't force it.

I think you have two choices now... (1) you can either hit the reset button and actually form a genuine friendship with these friends (not for the sake of getting the contacts! That would NOT be genuine but still agenda driven). (2) Or you can move on.

 

[Searcher]

I see... yeah so I see a few problems here. As I said in my post, exchanging value among high-level alpha guys is done in the context of friendship and shared / common interest. This is not the case in your situation.

1. You don't like them that much (you said you're rather hang out with other people), maybe this comes across in subtle ways or even if it doesn't, it means you don't have a genuine bond with these men.

2. You're not sharing freely out of a genuine connection you share with them, you do so in the hopes of getting something back... it's tit for tat, very different from what I described (giving value freely without keeping score).

When you give value to someone just to build reciprocity, in the hopes of getting value in return, it can work, but it doesn't always. It's agenda driven rather than sincere, so you can't really be upset if it doesn't forge a real social bond.

The fact that you have now withdrawn your help must also have tipped them off that you were just trying to get something all along. Or maybe they were being unreasonably cagey with their contacts, it's impossible to know without more background info.

In any case it seems they deem these contacts more valuable than music lessons, or the reciprocity principle would probably have kicked in regardless of whether they wanted to or not, just because it's human psychology. But, you can't force it.

I think you have two choices now... (1) you can either hit the reset button and actually form a genuine friendship with these friends (not for the sake of getting the contacts! That would NOT be genuine but still agenda driven). (2) Or you can move on.

I think I should move on. (I don't want to be taken advantage of where they get something of value from me for free like music lessons and they don't share anything in return also as you said this withdrawing help which I did makes genuine connection more difficult as now it might start feeling like a business transaction).

It started out as normal shooting shit in the air. Though as I said they aren't my inner circle of friends (I am a bit skeptical in letting people get too close, Had people in the past who had used the vulnerabilities I had shared to put me down in front of other people).
They had asked me for tips first and I went ahead and gave them free coaching but I got disappointed when they didn't reciprocate by giving anything in return.

I also have to work on my conversational skills (I am no expert) and apart from talking to people, I am watching Joe Rogan podcasts to see how he is able to vibe with most people with highly varied lifestyles/experiences.

That reminds me do you know any such people who can be learnt from with very good at conversation skills?

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

I would say Joe Rogan might possibly be the best in the world at that, so you picked the perfect guy to model IMO!