Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the fix.

Toby

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After reading Chase's post about victim's mentality about five months ago, I realized that I had it. I thought more and more about my victim mentality and realized what was really causing it too, it made me into this depressed and miserable guy sometimes who does feel like there is a dark cloud in his life. What makes it more sad is that on paper I seem to have it all such as a nice paying job in a respected industry and being in decent shape but even after all that, I felt sad and like a victim.

So after digging in, I realized that my victim's mentality centered around social life struggles I have had throughout my life. I never thought much about it in high school because I was in a backwater town where most kids were poor and struggling with life (huge drug addiction issues). Then came college where I was so far behind in it all and I was not able to catch up socially, I didn't get the social status games and it cost me dearly.

I saw guys who did get it and were connected socially with hot girls either in relationships or even in their social circles. The guys who were connected with these girls on social media and had these girls in their lives. It gave me a feeling of anger, depression and more anger.

But then came the helplessness in the sense that now I am in my 20s, I feel like it is all over. I feel like the same girls I crushed on in college are now engaged or married. I feel like there is no social life to be had after college that is really worth having in the sense of having a social life where you are involved with a lot of hot girls and fun enough friends.

I feel like now everyone just dies at some point or is at least begging for death to hit them.

Now I get that some people have a "life purpose" but for me, I cannot get to that because I have a social life that needs to be fixed yet I don't even know if it can be fixed or made anymore.

I feel like there is nothing for me socially since I missed the boat in college. I feel like there is nothing for me socially that involves hot girls and it has given me this feeling of helplessness.

Like I feel if you missed the boat in college, it is impossible to have a quality social life with a lot of hot girls in it.

I can't let go though, I really can't, its like I am stuck here and I do not know how to get out.
 

The Emerald Archer

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Re: Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the

I feel like there is nothing for me socially since I missed the boat in college. I feel like there is nothing for me socially that involves hot girls and it has given me this feeling of helplessness.

Like I feel if you missed the boat in college, it is impossible to have a quality social life with a lot of hot girls in it.
C'mon man these types of questions have been debunked and broken down on the forum and blog countless times before. People (radeng, Franco) specifically gave you pointed and practical advice. You know perfectly well that college is not the end of socializing and fun times you must be spending too much time reading reddit or on the internet in general. You still don't appear to be taking sincere and genuine action by trying out different ways of meeting people. That usually causes negative feelings like victim mentality, hopelessness, etc. It would be wise for you to start taking action, literally any action lol
 

Michal

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Re: Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the

Hello Peach,

I agree that you already got enough advice and answers. But I see a similarity between you and my 24 year old self.

I can tell you that college helps you get better with social skills yes, but that does not mean you cannot get to their level or further. Here is an analogy - ice hockey. Some people started from young age (like I did when I was 4) and they know how to handle a stick, a puck, skate, keep their balance in body checks, shoot the puck etc. You only know how to skate because you went to a rink on Sunday or once a month. You do not know, how to handle a puck etc, you do not know the technique. But you can learn that. You will never go to NHL though, but I can tell you that the type of social life is not really on NHL level requiring same amount of effort. NHL is party like a god 4-5 times a week with celebrities and famous musicians, actoresses, DJs etc. What most men want I noticed is have their pack of wolves and be tight with them. And if you want more packs, its doable too.

There are a lot of people who have done it, so it is not impossible to change your situation. Yesterday I had a thought about something very similar. That I want something but I see the effort it would take that I rather bail. I cannot remember what it was precisely, something about my father and his relationship with me. But another thought was about thinking about the past. You cannot look back and regret things and think what you could have done differently. Because now you are a different person than you were when you were in that past moment. So you cannot accurately evaluate much because your feelings, motivations and skills have changed. Life moves forward.

When I was 24, in college, I had like 2 friends. They were not the best type of friends as portrayed in movies where you hang out, have fun, go on trips. We were total nerds and geeks and were going maybe on a bike trips and played cards. Point being, at 24, I had a psychology and management course at school. And afterI described my situation, the psychologist told me that I justinvite people somewhere. Like movies or a beer or whatever. So I was like, yea I have no money to go to movies (another excuse really). But then I did some projects, got some good money, felt better (first money I have ever earned really). So I started to invite people to movies. And formed 3 new groups. Then we went to have a beer. Etc. Point is, you need to start small.

And there is another thing. Success. Success is intoxicating. It fills you up with energy and subconsciously you want to express that energy. That is the opposite of depression really. Expression. Recently I realized how me taking actions and seeing that those actions have results (not all of them though but good majority), it gave me some new power. And because of that I was more open, I was more social, I wanted to be among people. And they wanted me around. Invited me to a couple of events they have with their friends. I was more present. Felt better.

You need to take care of your needs, being social is one of them. So find whoever you want to spend your time with and go somewhere. Forget girls, forget sex and go bowling, go play billiard, whatever and have fun. In these kinds of enviroments, there is one simple trick. For example foosball table, you need 1 or 2 people to play, just ask some dude or a girl who looks cool to join you and play. Same with billiard. You are there with a friend, challenge some dude or a girl for a match, loser buys a beer. This is best if you are not that good at these games but enjoy the game. Nobody wants to join a game with a stranger and then get destroyed and have to pay a beer.
Does this sound doable to you? Can you see yourself doing this? I can tell you that if I was able to do this, then you can too.
 

Seppuku

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Re: Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the

Hey,

Yeah it's sounds like deja vu, all over again. Once in a while we have a profile similar to yours, where the guy goes complaining endlessly about the little woes in his life. It's always more or less the same. He couldn't do [xxx] while in his college years and now at 23 his whole life is fucked because of this. He would like to get girls like this or like that [usually hot blondes], but they wouldn't even look at him. He usually address a lot of his posts at Chase or Franco - in the hope for their attention. He gets a lot of answers (including, occasionally, by Chase and Franco), but he doesn't act on any of the advice generated.

I stopped long ago responding to these sort of posts, because I realized the guy is not interested at actually changing things. He is here because he wants the attention. The more noise he makes, the better. I am not sure if he even read all the advice he gets in response. It's a huge waste of time.

But alright. It seems that at least you are on a path of realization. Realizing where the problem is, is the first step in the right direction. So let me give it a shot, and I hope you can prove me wrong regarding what I said about similar profiles.

I did have a stage, too, in my college years, where I realized I wasn't the most socially successful guy in campus. I did ask myself questions, too. Here is my take: you are not this kind of social guy, because it is not who you are. The beginning of your fix is to learn who you are, and who you are not. I wasn't the sort of social guy. Never was. I had other things going on for me, though. Once I accepted that, it all went much better. Know who you are. Accept yourself the way you are, with the good, and the bad points, and get comfortable with it. Life will be easier!

It is OK not to be the super social guy. So you're not that sort of guy, but instead you do have a good job and in good shape. We can't be all. We're not supermen. You won't be the social god, oh well, but you are in a good path to build your empire. That's another kind of value. A good one, that can get you girls, too.

Is your life screwed forever because you didn't achieve [being a social god, or whatever] in your campus / high school years? Guess what I'm about to say? Not in the least. That doesn't stand reason for even a second.

Yes, it's true that the guys who are at the top of social life have plenty of girls. But it is not the only way! It is very possible to have plenty of girls, without being at the social top. I'm personally more like the lone wolf. It doesn't hinder me in the least. I don't get girls by displaying big social circle. Instead, I demonstrate sexual confidence. That's my way. There are other ways. You can find a way suitable for yourself, compatible with who you are. Being a social god is definitely not a prerequisite to get girls.

But now the real question is if you really want to take charge of yourself. Because you are obviously at a low point in your life. But only you can do something about it. It's all solvable. Only you can do it. Not us. You will stay low, until one day hopefully you decide to kick yourself out of inaction. But the initiative has to come from you. You need the *real* initiative. The will. I can help. So can other guys here. But the will must come from you.

For a start, you should change your pseudo to PeachSatisfaction, that would be a much more positive outlook. Regarding your other post (you get matches but no drive to go and meet), my solution to the same issue was to keep a journal here, write my objectives, and hold myself accountable to them. Something like:

Get twenty matches for the week. Engage all of them and ask them out. Try to get three actual dates for next week. Etc...

Then I would write how many matches I actually got, how many I actually engaged, how many dates I had, etc... On a week by week basis. Until I eventually got so many dates that I just stopped doing that. But it helped me many times.

Seppuku
 

Chase

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Re: Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the

Peach-

Do you intend to reply to the posts guys give you in response to the threads you start here?

You got a ton of really excellent, thoughtful advice from Michal and Seppuku, and a good wakeup call from Emerald Archer. Didn't respond to any of it; did you take much time to digest any of it?

It's frustrating to guys if they're trying to help you, and you just ignore them and go on creating new threads where you gripe about different variations of the same them ("Life sucks, nothing ever goes right for me, why does it have to be so hard").

Also, did you see Franco's response to this post of yours, and is he correct? Because this makes a colossal difference.

If you're in a small town or a smallish city, it probably does not have the population you need to level up if you're both still a.) not a terribly cool guy yet and b.) also a morose guy. People will help you out if you're not that cool but you're fun or at least not a drag to be around. And they may help you out for a while if you're a drag but you're also pretty cool (though they will still burn out on you sooner or later). But if you're not cool yet, and you're a drag, maybe only 1 in 100 people will want to continue to hang around you for any real stretch of time.

The easiest thing for you to work on, right now, is not being a drag. You're enough of a drag it got you fired from work. You're also enough of a drag we had a conversation about whether it'd gone on too long here and we needed to ban you from the boards -- remember this, from the "Board Etiquette" post (it's stickied at the top of this same forum you posted this thread in)?:

Chase said:
What I am NOT fine with is people using everyone else on the boards as their personal therapists. If you need therapy, hire a therapist; I'm not trained as that, and neither is anyone else here, and we all suck at that role and lack the mental fortitude to have to put up with someone who's a black hole of bitterness and defeatism. This place is a place for people interested in self-improvement - it is not a group therapy session, and it will break if I allow you to continue using it as this.

...

This is not about guys who are good and not good. There are tons of guys on here who are newbies on here and ask newbie questions. That's fine, welcomed, and encouraged. There are plenty of guys who make silly mistakes and can't seem to quite grasp things. That's normal; I did it, everybody else here did it, and if you're new, you're going to do it too.

What is NOT fine is unloading your victim mentality all over the boards. I have zero tolerance for this kind of large-scale emotional abuse that some people with bad mindsets engage in.

If you're going to participate in this community, it must be as a productive member. If you're unable to participate without detracting from others' experiences, we reserve the right to shut the doors to you.
You're exactly the type of poster I wrote this post for. It's SO important that it's titled "Board Etiquette" and it's pretty much the only thing covered in the entire post: don't use the boards to vent!

I know your kneejerk victim mentality response to this is going to be to curl up in a ball and say "Life sucks, I can't find friends, lost my job, now they're talking about kicking me off the boards... I can't do anything right, nothing works, it's all so hopeless."

Check that kneejerk response for a minute. Shove it into a box or something. Tell it to get lost and come back later.

All this stuff needs to serve as a wake-up call to you. You have three things you need to do:

1.) Quit being a drag to other people. Does it make you feel better to dump your bad emotions on others? Maybe for a few minutes. And then it feels hopeless again, right? Meantime, you've taken -10 points off your likeability score to every person who heard you unload your unhappiness. When you feel bad, write it in your private (offline) journal - it's just as effective as doing it publicly, except in your private offline journal you can close the document once you're done and say "Boy! It was good to get all that out. And I sure am glad I didn't go spewing all that garbage to others...!"

2.) Go somewhere with a lot more people. I know, hard to get out of your comfort zone, and you're depressed, so it feels like wherever you go it'll suck equally and what's the point, blah blah. It WILL suck for a bit in a new city -- you're not going to know anyone there, you'll be even more isolated, and you'll have even more time to reflect and ask yourself deep, alarming questions like "Is it ever going to get better?" On the flip side, choose the right town and you will have much, much higher odds of making at least somewhat cool friends within 3-4 months of lots of activity (going out whenever you get the chance, befriending EVERYBODY, saying no to nobody, etc.)

3.) Stop being a choosy beggar. In one of your threads you said the only friends you can make are self-righteous people or nerds. And make it sound like these people aren't good enough for you. What? When I started out, I had similar choices to you. And I decided I could choose between having cool friends who were annoyingly self-righteous, or I could choose balanced but nerdy friends. So I choose cool, self-righteous friends and just sucked it up when they got self-righteous around me so I could be exposed to their cool side and have cool-ish friends. I don't know if that's exactly your situation, but look -- if you've got friend options, take the best of the options available to you. Doing the whole "I don't like any of my options, so I'm going to go sit in a corner by myself. Oh woe is me, why am I all alone!" act is ridiculous. I can commiserate somewhat... I did that for a while. Then eventually I realized that you know what, even if I thought I was Grade A, other people didn't, and if I had to hang out with some Grade B or Grade C or Grade D people for a while to develop my social skills up to the point where I could roll with Grade A people, it was time for me to start doing it. The mantra I hewed to, until I was making A-Grade friends and dating A-Grade girls, was "Everything anyone invites me to, I say yes." And then I would just go to everything and try to make the absolute best of it: work on my ability to interact with new people, increase my exposure to different sorts of places and activities, improve at maintaining relationships with people I'd known for some time, just improve, improve, improve.

====

Right now, you are a drag to be around.

You're a drag at work. You're a drag on the boards. I have to suspect you're a drag everywhere else too.

Stop it. Stop being a drag. Get a private offline journal and do your venting there. It works just as well as being a drag to other people's faces, I promise you. It is just as cathartic. And it has the benefit that you don't damage your social relationships even as you get your catharsis.

You're free from your job, which means you're free to move. Go somewhere with a bigger population. The worse off you are socially, the bigger a population you want. More room for trial and error; more anonymity so it's easy to be forgotten after you screw up yet again (major plus). It sucks at first when you don't know anyone, but if you're active you will get there... and you should be VERY active -- going out and socializing as much as you can. Even if you suck hard for a while and it isn't fun. You need those reference points, and you need to focus on trying to improve socially in every outing -- it's all a big experiment, you're not actually playing for keeps.

If you're smart, you'll go to a big city that a few other members from this forum live in. And you will hang out with them and not be a drag, because you want to be able to keep hanging out with them at least from time to time, to get clued into where the cool spots are and to see how someone who's better off than you are socially does things.

Lastly reread this post (or read it for the first time if you haven't read it yet):

How to Get Started When You’re Socially Hopeless

Do EVERYTHING in that post.

Start with "At the Beginning / When People Are 'Meh' About You", because that's where you are right now.

Don't read it and go "Oh, some nice suggestions. Maybe I'll do one of those sometime." Actually do the stuff in there. None of it's hard. You just have to make that little switch in your head that goes from "Ew, new stuff I'm not in the habit of doing, too hard, can't do it" and switch it to "Okay, new stuff. It's uncomfortable but I'm going to make a habit to do it. And hey, if none of it works, then at least I can come back and say 'Okay guys, I tried X and Y and Z from Chase's article, went hard on it for a month, doing all this stuff 4 days a week, and it's still not working. Here's what I tried and what happened'" and you will get real, actionable feedback you can use to troubleshoot and refine.

If you can do that, you've just joined The Self-Improvement Club. Welcome aboard. Mind your luggage because this train starts slow but goes faster than a cheetah on a roller coaster once it's moving.

If you can't do that, then you're still in "It's so hard I don't know what to do" land where nothing anyone says to you is seriously considered as something for you to implement in your life, and instead you are a unique, special flower with unsolvable problems that could only be fixed by some kind of divine intervention from Emma Watson and Peter Thiel.

One final thing you need to realize, which is perhaps the most important of all... and that is that there is not a damn thing I can do to help you, or Franco can, or anybody else can. Because everything we are saying we have already said a hundred times. Either you are going to internalize the realization that "The only one who can help me is me. And time's a'wastin -- I'd better get cracking on doing all this stuff" or you're going to sink into that mire of sadness the horse dies in in The NeverEnding Story. Where basically anyone can get out, but only if they quit moping around and march themselves out of that mire.

You can do it, dude. The job firing you is a good thing. Sucks now, but in a few years you are going to look back and say "Damn, it's a good thing they fired me."

Time to get off the fence and start fixing your life.

Chase
 

Toby

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
271
Re: Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the

To clarify things Chase, I am in Atlanta and an area of the city that is supposed to be more towards the younger end, not sure how this stacks up necessarily but I will get to that later.

I did things a bit differently these past few days, before I get to anything else I want to talk about that.

1. On a Friday night, I went out earlier than usual, like that time before the bars actually get packed. What I did was I went to a couple bars to speak to the manager and asked them if they were hiring. My goal is to eventually, somehow, get a job at a bar where a lot of younger people gather at. It is something I wanted to do real bad in college but could not because so many of those jobs ran through the fraternities, I wasn't in one due to my school having strict requirements for it but that's for another discussion. At both bars, the managers gave me their numbers and asked me to check back with them in a few weeks when they start hiring again. Not sure what sort of a sign this is but maybe anyone familiar with that industry can weigh in.

The way I see it given that I have done this before, maybe it doesn't pan out to anything. Maybe the managers were being nice so they decided to give me their number so I can fuck off, who knows.

I will be doing this on top of the next job I get which would be a corporate role.

2. That same Friday night, I got on my Facebook after a few drinks and just randomly added people. If they came up as a suggestion with mutual friends, I added them blindly. Its weird because I ended up getting more than a few folks on my account who were still in college but I was shocked at the results. What it led to is me having over 1k friends on Facebook while barely having 500 before doing this, it is like I got so drunk that for like half an hour I sat on a toilet doing just that and it panned out to me having a social media page with a lot of friends. Most of these people I do not even know but I don't know why they just accepted my friend request like that.....

3. Sunday after a soccer game where once again I am not really making "friends", I went out to a local bar/restaurant for dinner in nothing but my soccer gear lol. I ordered food to go but it was going to take a while so I ended up sitting at the bar just not giving a fuck. Its like I should have given a fuck but there were no hot girls there and I am usually an overly conscious guy who worries too much so I just thought fuck it. Nothing good or bad came of it but it did feel good...

Now for the other thing I did. I do have some journals I have written in and I know what I want, but I have no idea how to get it and I am really bitter and hateful towards the guys that have it.

Chase, I have an image in my mind that I will vividly describe to you below, it is an image of an experience which once I get it, I feel like I would have made it.

I am going to a party or event of some sort and it is me with some hot girls and a couple of guys I have formed close friendships with, we are out and having an awesome time, in fact the girls outnumber the guys.

If I have to go to an event, I have a couple of cool guy friends and some hot girls to join us. Maybe even one cool guy friend and a couple of sexy women..

Yet that very thing alludes me despite the effort I have put in. Whats strange is that I have a tougher time getting the guy friends to really chase that lifestyle with and feel like I am always going about it alone. Its always been my struggle in the past.

It alluded me in college despite me being bold enough to cold approach, granted I transferred schools due to going the community college route. I grew frustrated at my lack of results which led me to reading sites like these. I could never get the fraternity guy friends or the cool social guys that were liberal about drinking and chasing women, could be a southern thing as a lot of people down south (at least in Georgia) are the bible thumper types.

At the same time I feel like the guys who have that don't deserve it more than I do. I feel like they lucked out because they were born with rich parents who funded their party lifestyle, they had the fraternity life in college which carried over on to the real world, they were born with a golden spoon in their mouth, they had stuff handed to them on a silver platter due to good life circumstances and I feel like its bullshit. Even making friends with such guys is impossible because they know that I am friends with them due to their lifestyle but I don't know why I cannot seem to get that lifestyle going for me.

End of the day, I have options with Tinder dates but none of them are that hot. I am texting about 6 or so girls back and forth but none of them are hot or the cool social party girl types.

And then there is my final toxic belief I took time sitting on after some self-analysis: Life ends after college and all the cool kids are out of the picture so this fear that the lifestyle I am dreaming of has passed.

Chase, I never had much of a college experience regarding girls, social life and partying. My college experience sucked so bad that at times I don't even root for my alma mater in sports. Everyone was hostile, I ran into a lot of cold and rude social guys and girls often overlooked me. Then at the same time I feel like that was the game, that was it and now life is over.

The cool kids are married with kids and chasing the family life so what am I chasing now? Is what I am chasing even possible? Am I trying to play a retro dumbed down version of a game that already ended?

I took time to sit on this and realized it is messing up my mentality so badly that at times it becomes a crippling setback in terms of approaching life. Maybe its an American thing or a southern thing but it is this thought in me that the game itself was at its peak in college when everyone was young, in their prime and having fun. Now everyone has had their fun and has opted to get out of the game so I am now being the alpha without anyone really putting up much of a competition.

Its like this feeling that I am in the world cup but playing for the 3rd place trophy or some sort of a consolation prize instead of playing for a championship. Some days it drives me mentally insane to where I turn pissed off get really cold instead of being social, hard to describe it in just words.
 

Richard

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1,792
Re: Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the

PF,

What do you have to offer women to get them to stay or be attracted to you?
What value do you have that cool guys and hot girls will be interested in keeping around?

Plus, you're doing one of the worst possible things you can be doing with your life - placing a condition (especially one that's hard to reach) on your own happiness. What you're doing is no different than saying "I can't be happy until Hitlers body is resurrected so I can string Christmas lights through it and rain dance in a circle."

Tons and tons of conditions and misguided mentalities and I'm tired of seeing it in every single post non-stop. I'd feel a lot better and would be more supportive if you were actually trying to improve and showing us you're taking steps toward doing ANYTHING to improve but I'm constantly seeing whining and complaining in every post. If you can answer the two questions I posted above honestly, you'll probably find that you're not as "valuable" as you think (which is a good realization to have) because then you can start working on it.

The first thing you should do when you're not getting what you want out of a situation is to step back and figure out what you could be doing better because, generally, you're going to be part of the problem in not getting what you want. Once you can figure out where you can improve/build/etc. then you're taking one step closer to getting that vivid dream of yours.
 

Chase

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3,154
Re: Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the

Okay, good. Good that you are taking action, going out, trying to get hired, adding people on Facebook, etc. The bartending job might help. The Facebook thing probably isn't going to do much for you, but the idea behind it is good: "I've got to get myself around a lot more people."

Atlanta's a town plenty of guys on here have complained about. I spent two weeks in the city and found the women and the nightlife quite depressing. I went out all over that town but could not figure out where they hide the attractive women at... it's poorer in that regard than any other city I've visited in the U.S. Combine that with the insular groupishness I've seen guys on here complain the people in that town have and I can't think of what you'd have to offer me to get me to live there. You will most likely have better prospects in practically any other city.

That said... I will give a big +1 to Richard's comment.

Richard talks about what you offer to other people. My earlier comment about "Stop being a drag to other people" is another way of putting this. I do not see any reflection by you in your thread here on this. Why would people want to hang around you? What's so great about you? What needs fixing?

YOU are the product. If you suck, it doesn't matter how magnificent your dreams are, they're not going to happen. They will start to happen after you fix the product and start to offer value to people and not be a drag.

I suggest you draw up a pro and con list and list out your pros and cons.

Pros: reasons cool people would want to be friends with PeachFrustration.

Cons: reasons cool people would prefer to avoid PeachFrustration.

List that out and you've got a start point for things to work on.

I know you maybe don't feel terribly motivated because you have this idea that all the cool people are married with kids now and that life ends at 22. I don't know what people you're spending time around to have that image in your head. Maybe that's a thing in Atlanta... everyone has babies by 23 or 24? Haven't spent enough time there to know. Could be a regional thing. Or could just be blinders -- start to look for Volkswagens and you start to see Volkswagens everywhere. If you think all the cool people have babies you'll start to see hot girls with baby strollers all over the place, and cool dads playing ball with their kids. And ignoring the cool people who are single and on the prowl.

Also remember that when you are uncool, you are going to be excluded from the groups of cool people who are single. Cool guys want cool guy friends to help them meet pretty girls. And pretty girls want to meet cool guys to date and to leverage for social value. They avoid people who are a social drag, because there are always way, way more uncool people who want to latch onto cool people and ride them for value than there are cool people to go around.

All that circles back to YOUR social value. If it's high, you will start to meet cool people pretty much anywhere. Even in Atlanta, I bet, if you get cool enough you will eventually start to figure out where the cool people congregate (I'm sure there must be some there) and get welcomed in.

If you continue to suck though, you'll be stuck hanging out with all the other people who suck.

People get to hang with the people who are like them. Don't want to hang with people like you, then change what you are like.

Chase
 

Toby

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
271
Re: Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the

I will come out and say that I am lost Chase and Richard, I am lost on this thing. Being completely transparent with you guys, I am lost.

I know what I want but I have no clue in the world of how I am ultimately going to get it now. As I mentioned earlier I want that life of cool friends and hot girls but I have no idea what in the world the guy living that life is doing now that I am not. If I go by what happens regionally, he was born into the right family and the right situations but that just fuels the victim mindset.

Throughout a total of about 5 years now, a couple spent reading and 3 spent taking action to improve my life, I have made big changes in my life. I am financially independent in my mid-twenties and I live on my own.

Even this year my results on dating apps have improved significantly thanks to having nice photos taken so I can get a date every other week from the app.

But I have no idea how to build the social life I envision for myself where me, some cool guys and hot girls are hitting the town. I have no idea what the guys who have the life I want to have are doing differently.

I read your article Chase and yes, it is a long process and I might just have to go out to people watch more. I have been texting back and forth with 5 different women I number closed on dating apps but these days, not even a date excites me as much as the prospect of having that life I talked about because I never had it.

Its like I am seeing progress, cannot put the pieces of the puzzle together, the opportunities with women are there but the social life thing keeps alluding me. At times I feel like I might have gotten close to a small piece of it but nights I have gone out, it has made me boil with envy to see a group of guys with hot girls with them and me not being that guy.

So I read your article and did a lot of what you suggested the past few years but I am not at that point still and it drives me nuts sometimes. The worst feeling is seeing my 20s and time slip by, worrying that at some point I'll be too old to even live that kind of a life or find friends that want to.

I might try to go people watch with a date I have this weekend to see how that goes.....

But just this feeling of it being so far off is what makes me miserable.
 

Toby

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Re: Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the

Chase I thought I'd offer you some advice about Atlanta given how much you have helped me. The places to be in the city are Buckhead and to an extent Midtown. Majority of the hot girls in Atlanta hang out in the Buckhead area, it is mainly the sorority girl blonde bombshell types and a lot of them went to SEC schools. Buckhead has this weird dynamic to where kids from all over the SEC move there and mingle with friends they knew in college, largely former kids in Greek Life.

A few colleges in Atlanta so the Buckhead bars are loaded with kids still in college.

Now if you go to VA Highlands, you will run into a lot of the hipster girl types and same goes for Midtown although it is mostly gay people and hipsters as well. You might occasionally find some talent in the Belt Line too but it does pale in comparison to Buckhead. Unfortunately for Buckhead, a lot of it is driven by the good ole boy fraternity circle. Even most bartending jobs tend to go to former frat guys who did at a given SEC school. At one of the top bars which I would argue the hottest girls gather at, you pretty much need to have SEC connections to get a gig.

The guys who get in good with this clique and crew get the hottest girls, unfortunately, it seems real closed off. Most other guys in that crew are hostile to outsiders, some blatantly rude in fact from what I have encountered, and the girls do not want to break from their clique. The city starts to feel like a small town in some ways.

What I have found the most frustrating about Atlanta is the whole Christian act you have to put up. You have to play up that church goer image in public although behind closed doors people break from it. My personal issue with going that route is that I feel in many ways I am just living up a blatant lie where I condemn sex before marriage in public while pouncing at the chance for sex whenever it presents itself. It is just that given it is the south, its a huge thing down here and I am having a tough time playing up that sort of an act.
 

Rain

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Re: Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the

Richard said:
Plus, you're doing one of the worst possible things you can be doing with your life - placing a condition (especially one that's hard to reach) on your own happiness. What you're doing is no different than saying "I can't be happy until Hitlers body is resurrected so I can string Christmas lights through it and rain dance in a circle."

Tons and tons of conditions and misguided mentalities and I'm tired of seeing it in every single post non-stop. I'd feel a lot better and would be more supportive if you were actually trying to improve and showing us you're taking steps toward doing ANYTHING to improve but I'm constantly seeing whining and complaining in every post.
So thinking "I won't be happy until I have a 10" or "I won't be happy without oneitis" or in Peach case "I won't be happy until I have lots of women ,and cool guys to hangout with as well" is the wrong mindset/condition.

What is the right mindset/condition? Is it finding happiness in your career/job...or finding happiness with lower value women or less cool people, until your skills improve? But then, isnt that still in the back of your mind wont be happy until skills improve? What's the alternative mindset/condition?
 

Chase

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Re: Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the

PF-

PeachFrustration said:
Throughout a total of about 5 years now, a couple spent reading and 3 spent taking action to improve my life, I have made big changes in my life. I am financially independent in my mid-twenties and I live on my own.

Even this year my results on dating apps have improved significantly thanks to having nice photos taken so I can get a date every other week from the app.
Excellent. Very good you are making headway in these areas. These are some worthwhile wins.

PeachFrustration said:
But I have no idea how to build the social life I envision for myself where me, some cool guys and hot girls are hitting the town. I have no idea what the guys who have the life I want to have are doing differently.
I will tell you what that is like.

You've got a group of some friends, and everyone likes to hang out because you enjoy one another's company.

Your friends like to hang out with you because you're a cool guy who can crack some jokes and likes to do what they like to do. Maybe you have some buddies who like to hit the dive bars and pick up chicks. So you hang at your buddies' place and the girls next door come over and after you drink and watch South Park and crack jokes for a bit you all head out to the bar. While you're at the bar, you hang out, shoot the breeze, and chat up some women. Sometimes you talk to the girls you came with, sometimes your buddies, sometimes some new chicks.

Your friends like you because you provide a few forms of social value. You:

  • Have a decent sense of humor, which makes things more fun and relieves tension
  • Are cool around attractive women and don't get needy, desperate, overly forward, or weird
  • Aren't needy around cool guys, because you are a cool guy yourself -- you like cool friends, but aren't dependent on them... you're as fine at the bar by yourself as you are with them
  • Have aligned interests with theirs -- you aren't trying to drag them to a mega club or a country music bar when they prefer dive bars, for instance. You aren't bugging them to get moving when they want to hang out and pregame for a bit before they go out. You and they are on the same page -- which is a super important part of being someone any given group of people want to hang with (all on the same page)

The most important part of all this is a "how can I bring value" mentality. The more focused you are on how you can bring value to other people, the faster you accrue cool, valuable friends.

Part of your issue is a focus on your desired outcome instead of on how to get there.

It's like if a guy says "I want to summit Mt. Everest" but he's never learned to climb. Well, it's doable, but first he needs to become a pretty talented climber. If people tell him this and he says "Yeah sure. But first -- I want to summit Mt. Everest. How do I ever get good enough to do that?" And people tell him well, you've got to focus on all these little climbing skills and improve at those. You've got to train your body for it. You need to climb smaller mountains first, and work your way up. And years go by and he doesn't really do those things, and then he says he just feels depressed because it's starting to feel like he'll never summit Mt. Everest.

Meanwhile, thousands of other people started out just as clueless as him about climbing, but practiced diligently and trained their bodies and started from the basics and went from there. And they've since summitted all kinds of impressive peaks, including Everest. Victim mentality guy is still kicking around with a meager 20 hours of climbing practice and about as much finger strength as when he started, because he never stopped obsessing about the goal long enough to obsess about the process.

Until you switch your goal from "I want a lot of cool friends and hot girls going out with me to super cool places" to "I want to be an exceptionally cool guy whom other people all want to be around" you are going to continue to struggle with this and continue to be infinitely far away from it.


@Rain-

Rain said:
So thinking "I won't be happy until I have a 10" or "I won't be happy without oneitis" or in Peach case "I won't be happy until I have lots of women ,and cool guys to hangout with as well" is the wrong mindset/condition.

What is the right mindset/condition? Is it finding happiness in your career/job...or finding happiness with lower value women or less cool people, until your skills improve? But then, isnt that still in the back of your mind wont be happy until skills improve? What's the alternative mindset/condition?
These desired end goals are good to have as motivators. You need a target you're shooting for, for sure.

But when you fail to use the end goal to become obsessed with the improvement process, you're dead in the water.

PeachFrustration's problem is that he has this crystal clear, idealized outcome he has ensconced in his mind, with no path to get there. The path there is actually a very simple path (make yourself a cooler, more value-giving individual), it just takes time and effort. Instead he is looking for quick fixes, like bartending, which is unlikely to work how he hopes it will considering the state of neglect his interpersonal skills appear to be in.

Chase
 

Mr.Rob

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Re: Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the

Peach,

Chase has laid out exactly what we've been trying to communicate to you I think better than any of us have thus far.

You have all the answers, there is nothing more we can help you with.

Time to get to work dude. I sincerely wish you the best of success in taking action and overcoming this once and for all.

We can offer no further help than this man. You have all the answers.

-Rob
 

Toby

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Re: Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the

I get where you come from with the process Chase but I feel as if no matter how much I try with the fundamentals, things do not line up in the end.

Earlier this year when I played with the idea of a community group through church, I made friends but the issue was these were friends who did not welcoming drinking or going out which limited me socially. They were way too traditional and conservative to where I feel like I could not bring value or live a life purpose true to me by being around them.

Thats my point in the sense that I know what I want but life has continuously denied me opportunities there. I am tired of these fucking self-improvement goody two shoe junkies who think alcohol is the devil trying to be my friend when I rather be friends with the people that just want to go out on weekends, have fun and are lax on morals.

I like to think of myself as a guy who can add value but I feel like I mostly get taken for granted by a lot of people. We might have a nice short chat where we make great small talk but I am never to a point where they want to invite me out to a bar with their friends.

Even at bars and nightclubs, I feel like it is hell in terms of making friends there. Everyone is more focused on their crew and social circle than meeting new people.

I constantly feel like its not always who I am but the opportunities don't seem to present themselves as much for me to get the life I want.

As for bartending, it does mean a lot to me to get a job at a bar or nightclub Chase. I wanted to do in college but couldn't due to how strict the local bars were in my college town, preferring strongly to hire frat guys. Whether or not it helps me socially, I am not looking for it as a quick fix but rather a way to really immerse myself in the nightlife environment I love, get a chance to work there, see it all from behind the scenes and really have the reason to be there. It just has a lot of personal value to me to get to work in nightlife and eventually bartend, even if I have to do it on top of a 9 to 5.

Fuck it Chase, all I can say is I am clueless about this thing, still lost. I get that you are giving good advice but its like I am not getting the opportunity to apply it.....
 

Chase

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Re: Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the

PF-

A task for you.

Do cool people want to hang out with you?

  • If "Yes", list the reasons why cool people want to hang out with you
  • If "No", list what you must improve to get cool people to want to hang out with you

Chase
 

Rain

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Re: Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the

Chase said:
Then eventually I realized that you know what, even if I thought I was Grade A, other people didn't, and if I had to hang out with some Grade B or Grade C or Grade D people for a while to develop my social skills up to the point where I could roll with Grade A people, it was time for me to start doing it. The mantra I hewed to, until I was making A-Grade friends and dating A-Grade girls, was "Everything anyone invites me to, I say yes." And then I would just go to everything and try to make the absolute best of it: work on my ability to interact with new people, increase my exposure to different sorts of places and activities, improve at maintaining relationships with people I'd known for some time, just improve, improve, improve.

it's all a big experiment, you're not actually playing for keeps.
I get if you're a grade D then you might only be able to hangout with grade D. But what if the grade D people thought you were being there friend legitimately, and then you become grade B or grade A and because you were only friends with grade D as an experiment, or until someone better came along, wouldn't grade D end up getting hurt because you wouldn't be there friend anymore?

Is that similar to asking out women who are 6s but you really want a 10 or something? Or even having relationships with ones that you won't stay with if someone better came along?
 

ThePhoenix

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Re: Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the

Rain said:
I get if you're a grade D then you might only be able to hangout with grade D. But what if the grade D people thought you were being there friend legitimately, and then you become grade B or grade A and because you were only friends with grade D as an experiment, or until someone better came along, wouldn't grade D end up getting hurt because you wouldn't be there friend anymore?
I don't think it's a black-and-white thing where either you are or are not making "legitimate" friends.  It's more like, it is real friendship but it is - as probably anything should be - secondary to your self‑development.  There are two natural outcomes:

  1. You pull them up so that those grade D friends start to become grade C friends etc.; or

  2. You gradually become less available to them and either they remain distant friends you only hang out with or talk to occasionally, or you just lose touch over time.

Friends gradually lose touch all the time.  It's not really a hurtful thing; not acutely, anyway.

As for relationships with women you won't stay with when something better comes along, I think that comes down to managing her expectations.  I personally would never put a woman under the impression that she'll have me for life, because really, there's always a possibility for something better.  Remember, they play that game, too.  Actually, that's one of numerous reasons I'm not into monogamy at all, personally.

Cheers!
Phoenix
 

Richard

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Re: Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the

Rain said:
So thinking "I won't be happy until I have a 10" or "I won't be happy without oneitis" or in Peach case "I won't be happy until I have lots of women ,and cool guys to hangout with as well" is the wrong mindset/condition.

What is the right mindset/condition? Is it finding happiness in your career/job...or finding happiness with lower value women or less cool people, until your skills improve? But then, isnt that still in the back of your mind wont be happy until skills improve? What's the alternative mindset/condition?
Well, peel things back.

"I won't be happy until I have a 10" is literally saying "I won't be happy with a girl unless everyone acknowledges she's hot" which is why the 1-10 and any number rating scale can be detrimental to your progress.

That aside, there is no "right mindset" but there are plenty of "wrong mindsets" because happiness or joy aren't things you place conditions on, they're just things you simply experience. The more and more limits (directly or indirectly) you place on your life the less and less room you allow yourself to actually be happy and experience joy.

The closest thing I can think of to the "right mentality" is be content with who you are but always strive to improve.
 

Chase

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Re: Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the

Rain-

Rain said:
But what if the grade D people thought you were being there friend legitimately, and then you become grade B or grade A and because you were only friends with grade D as an experiment, or until someone better came along, wouldn't grade D end up getting hurt because you wouldn't be there friend anymore?

Is that similar to asking out women who are 6s but you really want a 10 or something? Or even having relationships with ones that you won't stay with if someone better came along?
Well... think about what the rule is here.

Is it "I can't ask out anybody unless I'm prepared to marry and put a baby in her"? If so then yeah, I guess, you can only talk to supremely beautiful women whom you're certain you'll wed before you even approach. But that's not the rule, is it?

With friends is it "I cannot hang out with anybody unless I'm ready to give myself a paper cut and become blood brothers for life"? If that's the case then yes, you must limit yourself only to friendly contact with people you're certain you'll be lifelong friends with. Also not the rule.

Unless you're an absolutist about it, you can date and sleep with girls you maybe aren't ready to impregnate yet. And who knows, maybe you will impregnate one of those chicks. Anything could happen. But even if you don't impregnate them, and end up meeting your ideal chick later, it's typically not going to have been a harmful experience for you or the women you courted and slept with without impregnating. Unless you were a jackass about it ("Sorry, I could NEVER impregnate you!" <-- don't tell her that obvs.).

Same deal with friends. It doesn't have to be "blood brothers or bust." You can hang with people who are only mildly cool even if they are not your ideal. You have a good time with them and they have a good time with you, and even if the friendship only lasts one or two years and not 60 years, it's still valuable for all parties. Then sometimes you will make friends you end up hanging onto long-term as well. Others you fall out of contact with. This is life.

Now, if someone is the kind of super lonely, needy person who will feel hurt if you make friends for a while but eventually drift away, then yeah... don't start hanging with that person just because you need to practice socializing. But you should be able to find reasonably normal, fairly social people who are not needy or lonely to hang with -- this is kind of a bare minimum for someone worth hanging out with for the purposes of improving your socialization. Lonely, needy people are not good folks to practice your socializing with and around. Look for normal, less dependent folks for that.

Chase
 

Toby

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Re: Victim mentality seriously starting to ruin my life, know the cause not the

Chase I definitely believe I bring a lot of value to the table. When I left my group I joined from church, I had a lot of members including some in leadership positions talk about how I was missed and they would love to have me back. The reason I did not go back is because it was not able to align to my life purpose as I mentioned.

Even with my job hunt I get recruiters reaching out to me almost daily asking for phone screens so my calendar is packed with at least two a day. So I get company in my professional life and to a degree even in my social life but it is not lining up to my life purpose and goals, the desire to have real drinking buddies, real wingmen and the access to that sort of a crowd which also has hot girls in it. It isn't just the hot girls, it is the lifestyle I want affiliated with the party life but enough of that for now.

What I do owe you is that list of why people would want to hang out with me since you have genuinely tried to help me.

1. I have my shit together, even though I am unemployed I have nine months of rent I can pay off without making anymore money. Even then I have had interviews, a couple job offers and will be trying to grow that bank account regardless.

2. I am honest about my life, I know what I want and have the desire to get it, I don't wear a mask. Now I did finish reading 33 Strategies of War recently so I downplay and hide my ambition in public more but I feel like in many ways I am slowly moving towards living a life true to myself, even my last job was in a career that plays well with my skills.

3. I am well traveled and actually have a lot of life experience to share in the form of stories.

4. I am a good listener thanks to reading Dale Carnegie's How To Win Friends and Influence People.

5. I am willing to learn and expand my mind, grow in life.

6. I bring the energy to conversations and parties, often being told in past workplaces that I have been at or places I have left that I will be missed, old coworkers often texting me to ask what is going on and how I am.

7. I feel that I have the life experience of someone who took his life from misery, poverty and almost committing suicide due to the bad hand he was dealt to financial independence and being a way better version of himself, I get better every year!

So what's the issue right?

The issue is, and maybe I am being picky as you said Chase, despite all that I wonder why it is not me walking to a party with two hot girls by his arm and some guy friends who are cool guys. I wonder why it is not me who is a part of the same crowd hot girls and cool guys run in. I wonder what I am lacking despite all that to where I cannot get people to come out to bars, nightclubs and parties with me. I wonder what the guy who is out with hot girls and his bros has that I do not.

So I am wondering what I can work on now.

Cold approach has really led me nowhere in the past, I mean yes I can get a date but I don't just want dates and sex, I want that social life I dream of.

I am just so lost on what I can work on especially when I see loser guys who don't have their shit together getting that life that I do not have.
 
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