LR  Watch Out For These...

NarrowJ

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Guys, I know I haven’t logged in here in a while and I have a few personal messages that have been left unanswered. I apologize if I am not able to get to all of them in a timely manner. I’ve been really busy at work, and with other things going on. So, again, not ignoring people! Just been literally swamped.

Anyway, this is something that’s happened to me just in the past several days or so that I have to share with you guys. Sometimes you meet someone and their outward actions and appearances are completely normal, and you might even think they’re great and wonderful and have it all together… and then you *really* get to know them.

This girl seemed to have all the makings of good, potential girlfriend. And, it turned out horribly awry. Usually my reports have at least somewhat happy endings. This one does not. Hoping this can help guys keep themselves out of situations like this.

First meeting:

I met this girl through a mutual friend while out for drinks a couple of weeks ago. Shoulder length blonde hair, about 5’7” and dressed in professional attire. After some conversation/deep-diving, I find out she’s 28 years old and finished law school 2 years ago and is practicing locally doing litigation on corporate-related issues, aspires to have her own firm at some point, etcetera.

At this point, I can’t say I’m super attracted to her. It must be her work clothes or something. Even though I’m not 100% into her, I’m still giving her the same eye contact and vibe that I have attained over the time I’ve been training myself on them.

However, her attraction to me is rather quite obvious from the very start. This intrigues me a little. I start to “give her a chance”, mentally.

Eventually, she tells me that she plays semi-professional roller derby. I did not know there was such a thing. She shows me some photos of her in action that she has on her phone, and she pulls a player card (like a baseball card/bubble gum card) out of her purse and shows it to me. The position she plays is “Jammer”, who she explains is the team’s single point scoring skater whose object is to lap as many opposing skaters as possible, while her teammates block opponents from basically taking her out.

I tell you what, the whole roller derby thing. The pictures that she was showing me, I could see how fit and athletic she was, and some of the pictures she just looked like a bad m*therf*cker. I’m thinking: “Wow, there’s a lot more to this girl than I originally thought”
We continue to chat and it gets late, and we both have to work early in the morning. I can’t pull her then and there, so I give her a passionate kiss by her vehicle and we part ways.

During the interaction we had exchanged phone numbers. She begins to text me frequently.


Second meeting:

The water heater in my home had crapped out, and it was going to take me a couple days to get a new one. She had texted me asking if I needed anything, here’s the texts:

Her: Hey there, all ok? Need anything?
Me: Haha could use a shower, but it’s all good :p
Her: Well, I promise to maybe not peek lol. But if you need to, you can always shower here.
Me: Really? That would be awesome because it’s a 20 minute drive to my mom’s house.
Her: Definitely :) Just let me know when

I actually call her at this point. She says she hopes it wasn’t awkward to offer me her shower. I say it wasn’t, and that I’ll grab some things and head her way.

When I get there, we sit on her couch and talk for about 10-15 minutes. I get four text messages during this time span. Each time my phone goes off, she looks down at it. First one was Kimberly, then two from Lydia and another from Amber. She says something like “Jesus Christ, you’d think that when a guy starts dating a girl that he would slow down a little bit”. She laughs so I am not sure if she’s joking or not. A lot of times women will act like it’s a joke, while still trying to send the message.

Ok, this should have been a red flag but she had on short shorts and a cleavage revealing halter top, so my mind was fogged a bit. I end up grabbing a shower there, and come back out on the couch and sit by her. Within a minute or two, we begin to make out on the couch. I slip my hand down her shorts and go to work, and eventually this leads to us ending up in her bedroom.

An hour passes.

Another hour passes.

We seriously had sex for about two hours, and I am serious when I say that there was no breaks in between. I ravaged her at times, slowed down at times, ravaged her body again, repeat. By the time I was done with her she was a shaking mess and could barely speak. She clutched me tightly, her lower body vibrating in a puddle of her own juices for about 45 minutes until she finally fell asleep.

All of that may have been a mistake… But she was so sexy, and outside of the comment she made about the text messages, seemed like a totally awesome girl. I mean, come on. She’s a lawyer, so she’s independent, intelligent and savvy… right? She plays a sport regularly, which keeps her even busier and maintains a rock-hard figure and the stamina to last for hours in bed.


Things get crazy

It’s funny, I’m so pumped about this girl that I start thinking I could actually make an attempt at being exclusive. My brain is getting clouded.

The day after our 2nd meet, she goes out for drinks with some of her friends after derby practice. Eventually she gets drunk and brings up the girls texting me again. I deflect. She persists. Eventually she gets frustrated and tells me I’m “a typical male” and that I “have no imagination”. I don’t put up with personal attacks from people, and even as much as I thought she was going to be such a great girl to hang out with a little longer-term, I still decide to NEXT her at this point. I don’t respond to her, and just go about my business.

We had plans for the next day (which was yesterday), and finally around 1:30 PM she texts me asking if we’re still on and what time she should be ready, just like nothing happened. I ignore the message.

About 5:30 she sends me a couple of very lengthy, rude and inappropriate text messages.

Second mistake: I decide to respond.

I text her that I really didn’t appreciate the things she said last night, and that I don’t tolerate that. She acts surprised and texts back that she was just joking, and sorry if she didn’t put any smileys or lol’s in the messages. I know this to be bullshit, so I don’t play along.

She’s continued to message me, and I continue to delete those messages. In my experience, she’ll forget about it after a few days. I sure hope so.


Moral of the story, for me, was:

Even if a girl seems to be cool, independent and have her head on straight you still want to be weary. When you use the stuff that Chase teaches to the absolute max, girls will absolutely fall head over heels for you, and they’ll damn near die trying to get you to commit to them and become exclusive. So be careful, and try to read the red flags and let your brain do the thinking, and not your peder.

This girl had it all going on by outward appearances, and was a superb lay, but her inner craziness came out and I ended up having to deal with quite a lot of drama. Still not sure if it was worth it or not.


All the best,
NarrowJ
 

ZacAdam

Cro-Magnon Man
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NarrowJ,

I don't think you could have prevent yourself, J. But if a girl text way too much beyond 3 text messages, It's something else, and as you noted, Red flag. Sometimes we overlook things.

Zac
 

Marty

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NJ,

Very nice story—in spite of the ending :)

NarrowJ said:
The position she plays is “Jammer”, who she explains is the team’s single point scoring skater whose object is to lap as many opposing skaters as possible, while her teammates block opponents from basically taking her out.
I just looked this up... anyone who does this would have to be physically fit way beyond anything I could ever dream of achieving no matter how much determination I put into it. That is unbelievable. I can see how her qualifying herself to you like this got you intrigued...

NarrowJ said:
When I get there, we sit on her couch and talk for about 10-15 minutes. I get four text messages during this time span. Each time my phone goes off, she looks down at it. First one was Kimberly, then two from Lydia and another from Amber.
God, I laughed hard when I read this! NarrowJ, you are one badass sonofabitch =) Jeez!

NarrowJ said:
Ok, this should have been a red flag but she had on short shorts and a cleavage revealing halter top, so my mind was fogged a bit.
Yeah, I can kinda see how that might happen :)

NarrowJ said:
By the time I was done with her she was a shaking mess and could barely speak. She clutched me tightly, her lower body vibrating in a puddle of her own juices for about 45 minutes until she finally fell asleep.
Oh boy!

NarrowJ said:
When you use the stuff that Chase teaches to the absolute max, girls will absolutely fall head over heels for you, and they’ll damn near die trying to get you to commit to them and become exclusive.
Yeah... no kidding.

Too bad she couldn't defeat her own stupid, self-destructive jealousy... if she'd only kept her loss-of-control constrained to the bedroom, things might have been so much happier all round! Sorry to hear this, NJ, but it's her own loss I guess. At least you showed her a two-hour glimpse of happiness :))

-Marty
 

Verisimilitude

Cro-Magnon Man
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You seem down on yourself NarrowJ. But I think this is a great learning experience! And furthermore, it shows how an abundance mentality is making you a better person. A ton of guys I know would date (and are dating) girls who are at least that crazy or girls who have done worse. You're at the upper echelon and getting to weed out the ones who don't fit. Ok enough praise, but I didn't want you to think you screwed up.

I guess the advice here is that be careful about who you get close to. But nothing wrong with having sex with a girl and realizing that you two don't gel. It happens.

As long as she doesn't throw a brick through your car window, I think you'll be ok ;)
 

NarrowJ

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Marty, Zac, XC:

Thanks guys. It is disappointing. Best sex I've had since I started out on this mission, for sure. Also, she's certainly one of the most high-value women I've been with as well. Unfortunately, though... you can't fix crazy.

But the positive thing here is that if I had ran into this girl 18 months or so ago, I'd either be (1) devastated that it didn't work out, (2) have stuck around and let her treat me that way or worst of all and most likely, (3) never had a chance with her to begin with.


NJ
 

Marty

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Hey NJ:

Just a thought... and you may dismiss this as the musings of a rookie, but anyway:

What are you gonna do if she comes crawling back to you? Maybe you should consider a contingency plan... just take 30 seconds of your day, while you're in a calm, collected frame of mind, to jot down 2-3 steps you'll take if she calls you out of the blue. Depending on what you want with her (if anything), you may be able to get her to agree to onerous conditions :) Perhaps you don't think it's worth it but it's gotta be better than improvising and starting off the call on the back foot.

Just an idea.

-Marty
 

NarrowJ

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Marty,

That's actually a good idea, her last text to me was around lunchtime: "why are you punishing me? :("

Part of me feels like I should give her the chance to learn a lesson, and then on the other hand the way she acts is not something I want to deal with. People rarely change, and if they do it's not a quick process by any means.

I think she spent much of her adult life with her head in a book, and has little experience with men and dating.

Also: something important relating to the seduction that I didn't catch before was that when I showed up at her house I hadn't showered in two days. Her body language and physiology displayed a strong biological urge to be flogged and wrung out like a wet mop. Maybe the male scent thing is more profound than I'd thought. I love looking back on interactions like this and coming to realizations about things.

NJ
 

Marty

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Yeah, I never figured out whether you ended up taking that shower at her place! :)

Maybe you could give her a second chance (and a second pounding); then if she reforms her behavior, take her on for a probationary period as a once-a-week FWB as per Chase's rules outlined in his recent 2 articles? :)
 

Franco

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NJ,

I think she spent much of her adult life with her head in a book, and has little experience with men and dating.

I'm glad you brought this up. I've been reluctant to say this given the nature of people's views here (educated, non-party girl = good but uneducated, party girl = bad), but there can be drawbacks to only dating girls who appear to have their shit together on the surface. And that main drawback can be inexperience.

My current girlfriend actually grew up in Las Vegas. She partied her ass off for 4 years and then moved to San Diego to pursue her career (and still enjoys going out once every now and then on the weekends when she has time). And she has been an excellent girlfriend. I met her back in June of 2013, and we have yet to have a traditional "fight" with one another. This is mostly in part due to my relationship management skills learned here, but the other part comes simply from her extensive experience with men.

I actually did a couple things a little over a month ago that indeed warranted a bit of concern on her part, and she did one of the most mature things I've ever seen a girl do: she waited until we met up next opportunity in person, sat me down, and told me exactly what was concerning her (in a controlled tone). We talked about it for 5 minutes, resolved the issue, and moved on. No games, no drama, no bullshit. It was actually rather attractive to have a woman be that direct and straightforward with an argument.

Anyway, my point is, unless you're actually planning on marrying a girl and have huge financial decisions to consider, don't let too much of the surface stuff fool you. Some of the craziest women I've been with were law school or medical school students. And why is that? They simply spend no time developing their female skills with men. Their intelligence may lead you to believe their maturity level is off the charts, but as soon as their emotions get involved with a man (especially like one they have never experienced), they can often become extremely emotional and unstable. The problem with this is, if you're the first man this happens to, there's almost no way to fix it. They need to "lose" several guys by going overboard (just like WE lose tens to hundreds of women learning THIS stuff when we go overboard) before they get their heads on straight. Because if you capitulate and let them have their way when they go "crazy," they'll associate going crazy with getting what they want.

And that's definitely not what you want.

Again, this isn't to say you should or shouldn't date a girl who parties too much or a girl who studies too much. But this is just to make you're aware that girls are the same as us in terms of their ability to be "mature" when it comes to the opposite sex -- the more experienced they are, the better the chances that they'll have their heads on straight and not become emotional wrecks when they're worried about something or that something isn't going their way. It's also part of the reason why I'm rarely attracted to highly conservative girls. They are usually extremely inexperienced in relationships and either: A) freak out about the smallest things that don't matter or B) become an emotional wreck because they don't know how to convey what they want to a man.

These are just some things to consider. =)

- Franco
 

stratvm

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i think the moral of the story is that if girls were men they would fit in the "nice guy TM" or the "natural born loser" category perfectly. using sugardaddy sites in the past and being with a few "okayish" girls myself i saw quite a few examples for their lameness in chasing and trying to get hold of a man.

Chase & you guys are absolutely right that the key is to change relationship dynamics to get the upper hand. if you cant just skip to the next girl.
 

NarrowJ

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@Franco:

Excellent analysis there, man!

On this:

I've been reluctant to say this given the nature of people's views here (educated, non-party girl = good but uneducated, party girl = bad), but there can be drawbacks to only dating girls who appear to have their shit together on the surface.

The thing with this girl is that she is a completely different animal than those two types of women there. She would fit into "educated, party girl" quadrant instead. Which, in my opinion, just makes her all the crazier ;P

NJ
 

-B-

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Because she views you so highly and out of her league, she might not be acting like herself around you. When I was really inexperienced my second lay was this Hollister model I was so enamored with that I said and did all kinds of horrific shit that i thought would keep her around, like me a guy, putting up resistance to sex and saying “Thats stuffs, not important to me and I care about you”.... the first time we hung out, sending all kinds of emotional clingy texts, and a bunch of other stuff just as cringe worthy. Needless to say after one pitty fuck she moved on and lost all attraction.

I know that even the best of us have done some really out of character and stupid stuff that is totally not us when we were inexperienced and/or were dealing with our “dream girl” even though we knew better at that time. Maybe this girl is going through the same thing with you. I know if that girl gave me more of a chance I would have mellowed out and eventually showed her my true self. I totally agree with you backing off on the exclusive relationship plans, but I think you should trust a bit more in your initial judgment of people and this girl specifically. Think of yourself a bit over a year ago as you put it, you are still the same guy as you were back then, but this site helped you relearn to handle some things better on the surface to bring girls in and attract them. If you met a really great girl before you hit your stride, wouldn't it be cool if she gave you a bit more of a chance instead of running away immediately. If she was the best sex you've had in a long time and was a cool girl, I think you should give her a bit more of a chance to show you her true self and see if its a nervous phase that will pass before you next her. See if shes up for FWB if you lay it out straight to her. It couldn't really hurt ya know... well unless she's the cut your dick of with a pair of hedge clippers kind of crazy, then it would hurt a lot. but really i think it'd be good

I know im just a space monkey and im completely conflicting with franco on this one, but fuck it whatever

Also what was she referring to when she said “you have no imagination”
 

Franco

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-B-,

I know im just a space monkey and im completely conflicting with franco on this one, but fuck it whatever

I don't entirely disagree with you. As a matter of fact, I never suggested that NJ stop seeing the girl (nor did I suggest that he keep seeing her). But I do believe the circumstances do speak volumes about the girl. I've slept with a handful of amazing girls that knew exactly what they were doing after a night of passionate sex -- what I mean is that, they kept their cool, they waited until the next time I texted them, and they came to see me again. Needless to say, they were still ecstatic about seeing me the next time, but you could just tell they had a certain level of discipline because they had been through situations before that ended badly for them.

Some girls are naturally reserved after sex, and this can actually help them score guys by not making the guys think they're "crazy." I don't think that this girl that NJ slept with is necessarily crazy; she's probably quite the normal girl as a matter of fact. She just seems to be lacking a lot experience with men. My point is that, women are much more prone to associating their actions with their results. They don't think quite as logically as we do (whereas you were pointing out that you tend to calm down after awhile, women will only do this if they think it's actually the proper way forward to maintaining control in the relationship). So the problem with this situation is that this girl crossed the line for NJ, and seeing her again right after that would "promote" that behavior.

Now, if NJ does want to give it a second chance, it would probably be best that he at least have a "cooldown" period of 1-2 weeks so that she'll see that NJ's response to her behavior was more of a punishment rather than him capitulating to her accusations. The good news is, he's in control of the situation, so he can choose whether or not he'd like to give the girl a second chance. And if things don't go well, he's very capable of moving on at this point.

Just wanted to provide some clarity to the situation. =)

- Franco
 

-B-

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Thanks for the insight franco, i see how operant conditioning is necessary in this situation. Reading this LR i empathized with the girl a bit in some spots. I first thought this girl must pretty cool if NJ was having thoughts about being exclusive, also the "next" just for some reasoned seemed to be a little bit harsh even though i didn't experience her actions first hand like NJ did. "The why are you punishing me" text combined with her inexperience was a bit sad. I was just thinking there must be a way NJ could help her straighten up. A girl coming off crazy cause shes inexperienced has room to change and grow, instead of a girl who very experienced but still crazy. If NJ understandably doesn't want move things forward with her maybe at least there could be a way to help her not blow the next great opportunity she gets.

In your experience do you think it would be a good idea to be very direct with a girl like this similar to your girlfriend you mentioned above. Something like "When we first started talking i was digging your personality and thought you were a pretty cool girl, but it freaked me out a bit when you did A, B, anc C. To be honest i have a lot of options as you saw, so..." Maybe this could shorten her learning curve a bit and help her correct her behavior. Do women respond well to direct communication like this as long as it doesn't involve you spilling your feelings and killing your mystery?
 

Franco

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-B-,

In your experience do you think it would be a good idea to be very direct with a girl like this similar to your girlfriend you mentioned above. Something like "When we first started talking i was digging your personality and thought you were a pretty cool girl, but it freaked me out a bit when you did A, B, anc C. To be honest i have a lot of options as you saw, so..." Maybe this could shorten her learning curve a bit and help her correct her behavior. Do women respond well to direct communication like this as long as it doesn't involve you spilling your feelings and killing your mystery?

Well, the first thing about being direct in this form is that you need to be very careful with your words. For instance, I wouldn't say to her, "I WAS digging your personality, BUT..." because that makes it sound like your are throwing her under the bus and that she's not good enough for you. You can bet that she just might retaliate in a not favorable way if you word it like that. Something like the following might be more effective:

"Stacy, you seem like a really great girl, and I think we get along well. But prying into other people's business and making accusations without any solid grounds to base it off of is something I'm not quite fond of. I would love to keep things going between us, but you need to respect my personal space and privacy, especially since we just recently met. If that's something you think you can do, then I would love to give things another shot. Is that cool?"

Judging by her reaction to this, you can then decide whether or not you'd like to see her again. The only problem with this is that it doesn't really guarantee that she will completely change her ways. If she's inexperienced, she could still continue to have doubts about you, and if those emotions begin to overwhelm her logical mind, then she may lose control of herself again and say or do things that are ill-intended. This is especially true if the few interactions that she HAS had with men have been negative (meaning she's been with men who are manipulative and have lied to her).

Again though, if you're in control of yourself and you have a strong abundance mentality, then I don't see much harm in taking this approach to see the outcome. But if you're just starting out and feel like your feelings are beginning to overwhelm your logic, then you need to be careful because, the more time you spend with her, the more you are going to become attached to her (and possibly start to become blind to something that is obviously unhealthy). This happens all the time to guys, which is why we recommend getting lots of experience under your belt so you can recognize it and move on to the next girl if necessary!

- Franco
 

-B-

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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cool stuff here man. Makes want to spend more time and practice developing my word selection. I can see here how it can be pretty vital. Also just wanted to say that i don't view myself as more knowledgeable or on higher moral ground than NJ. Ive picked up some good stuff from his LRs, i just felt kinda bad for the girl on this one.
 

NarrowJ

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Well, I finally got a hold of her and I called her on the phone and talked through. Just explained that I wasn't mad at her, but that when there's problems like this so early on in things between two people it usually doesn't work out. I said that it just wouldn't be good for us to continue to see one another in the context of a romantic relationship. She said she understood that, and was calm and collected about the whole thing.

Then, last night I got the following two texts from her at 115 in the morning:

"Nootjifbsdbsytr"

and

"Hehehebhe goodnight sexy locku C"

Ugh....
 

Gentle_Phrases

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She said she understood that, and was calm and collected about the whole thing



In all seriousness, NarrowJ...I take this is a sign of your sexy man status. This girl is literally "dickmatized."
 

Verisimilitude

Cro-Magnon Man
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Lol NarrowJ. I always think its hilarious when guys friend zone girls. I think the best thing here is to just leave her alone. She'll get the point eventually. She probably already has, but the alcohol just got the best of her. I know it seems shitty to you, but from my point of view, having sexy (albeit crazy) girls chasing me wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
 

thedude

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What xcrunner said. Plus for a girl of her caliber to get friend zoned, that is probably a nice shot to the ego right there.
 
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