What's the hardest concept for you to wrap your head around in pickup?

[Chase]

I just completed an article on a concept I find most guys all the way up to just below 'advanced' generally struggle with in terms of understanding/seducing women.

Just curious here where guys starting out are getting hung up mentally.

I assume every guy with an account here is familiar at least in passing with most of the mentalities in seduction.

Actually grasping them can be another matter...

What is the most 'foreign' concept or practice in seduction to you?

I assume that on some of these we are probably not pacing guys totally perfectly, especially if guys are coming in feeling like "Whoa, that is a weird thing to try and grasp" meanwhile we are saying "This thing is totally normal and obvious and if you don't get it you will struggle!"

Chase

 

[Swati]

Hey Chase, LTR/Mltrs

from my perspective maybe that's "less" important for ONS and faster attraction/escalation. resulting me quite a few losses, lol, likely due to my personality being more avoidant in general too.

"maintaining attraction" I believe my weakness, understanding what women's intentions with me or what value they are being with me for, how to keep providing. I usually let them chase, then I've noticed auto rejection. I reward them when receiving attention. a bit basic but it's worked at least for the short term. probably not great for a longer period.


Swati

 

[alexlaguma]

Honestly I've never really understand the concept of frame control. I've read a few articles but its never quite clicked.

The other thing I've seen mentioned quite a bit recently is the importance of compliance. But again, what I've read has been quite theoretical and not 100% clear.

 

[James D]

Honestly I've never really understand the concept of frame control. I've read a few articles but its never quite clicked.

Check out The Power Moves by Lucio for frame control

 

[DarkKnight]

Check out The Power Moves by Lucio for frame control

I really dislike that guy covertly snubbing girlschase even though I suspect he took a lot from this site. Anyway, not to rock the boat further...

For ME. Well where do I begin? Pickup has been quite the fucking journey.

I think for me the hardest concept was female changeability. How you could be sure a girl likes you but she still does self sabotaging behavior like playing way too hard to get. Or their mood shifts. In particular @Teevster articles have really been helpful to clear a lot of the ambiguity which drove me loony.

Basically I got angry at chicks for messing up and never gave second chances despite that they were begging for it because I looked at everything in a linear way not understanding female changeability being caused by the most random things

But yeah the cognitive dissonance was real

 

[James D]

I really dislike that guy covertly snubbing girlschase even though I suspect he took a lot from this site.

Oh really?!

I recall seeing his review of the HTMGC book (I believe this is how I first found his site) and he seemed to have good things to say about GC.

His articles on frame control techniques and handling micro-aggressions, as well as, becoming power aware were pretty useful in helping me spot power moves and assert myself socially.

 

[DarkKnight]

Cant remember that well James but it felt like he was ladder climbing there a bit. Aside from that I have no doubt he has a lot of value to offer so perhaps I should not have derailed this thread with that comment

 

[gameboy]

+1 for frame grabbing

I always thought conversations just unfold organically. Or they don't. If I sense someone trying to push an "agenda" with me I get disinterested very fast.

So the whole concept of frame grabing and ~ battles is completely alien to me.

 

[Swati]

I really dislike that guy covertly snubbing girlschase even though I suspect he took a lot from this site. Anyway, not to rock the boat further...

Lucio has a lot of knowledge ripped off from everywhere, his PhD in sociology, IIRC, as for his character which is the most interesting, AND I've found some similarities with others too

his worldview is shaped by cultural background, they have a harder time adapting materials/ knowledge contradicting their social frame. I think his of an Italian upbringing so they still have this tribal group-like type of behavior, his social frame is singular so I'm not surprised at all.

in some of his articles, he virtual signals, and adapts the typical liberal EU overlook, like his so virtuous and above. his likely never been a physically capable dude either, cause most of his stuff is a bunch of mental acrobats using semantics to justify falsehood

 

[ChrisXKiss]

I’d say that for me it is simply what is a seductive man, meaning how to really be seductive and not do seduction.

I understand the skill building part, like you learn how to do certain things, and how to have strategies and techniques, but I still don’t fully grasp what it means to be it.

Do you just slip into it after grinding and getting more and more results?

I know it’s not connected to looks, status, money, race, height or anything similar, but mostly seems to be behavioural.

I suppose I’ve always been the opposite of natural, so it’s difficult for me to grasp getting sex with women without trying hard to.

 

[James D]

Cant remember that well James but it felt like he was ladder climbing there a bit. Aside from that I have no doubt he has a lot of value to offer so perhaps I should not have derailed this thread with that comment

Ah got you got you.

Well, yeah let's not detail this thread tho.

 

[Arnav]

I would say frame control as well, reading the articles on the website did not help, maybe because I don't have the refereneces to undertand the that principle. Maybe if someone could explain it from a different angle, words phrases or show a video example that would be better.

 

[POB]

I'll go way back to the ABC of things...took me a long time to realize a very basic, but powerfull concept:
- Atraction gets stronger the less you do things that she thinks she wants, and do more things that she really wants (but won't tell you).
classic e.g.
"I want an honest and caring man"
Be upfront, caring and give her attention and she will make you wait (what she thinks she wants)
Be misterious, somewhat ambigous, and challenging and she will want you bad (what she really wants)

This is strange for us, because it's not a rational, but rather an emotional concept.
(And redpill still didn't get it to this day lol)

 

[DarkKnight]

I know it’s not connected to looks, status, money, race, height or anything similar, but mostly seems to be behavioural.

I kind of want to ADD something about this. Yes you can get X Y Z girls if you are X Y Z. But I really find that pickup sometimes GROSSLY underestimates the effects of social frame and that it can change calibration and odds.

If there is something I think was a very late epiphany for me I think it was this. Girls who liked me engaged in female state control, meanwhile other girls whos social frame I was more near to opened up real fast or are really forward. I am not saying nobody deviates, or anything nothing is set in stone, but trends are obvious from my perspective.

I understand that this is not helpful with pickin up girls and can lead to people crying about things being unfair, that being said IT IS ACTUALLY A THING. I think this subject is avoided because we are tired of guys like IRT who keep moaning about how life is hard because they are Indian or whatever. Nevertheless, it is very real.

 

[James D]

@Chase

For me it's viewing women sexually.

I've read your articles on viewing women as sex objects and picturing the conquest, as well as the bit on sexual visualization in your sexual charisma handbook.

Takes a gigantic deliberate effort to actively view the woman I'm talking to sexually.

Often, I just end up forgetting and get sucked in the conversation.

I've mechanically learnt to use a touch ladder and learnt sex talk from Alek so setting a sexual frame is not much of an issue.

But I'd like to achieve this more or less constant sexual state like naturals where they exude a sexual vibe even when talking with women they're not necessarily trying to pick up.

 

[Hunter O-2]

I really dislike that guy covertly snubbing girlschase even though I suspect he took a lot from this site. Anyway, not to rock the boat further...

For ME. Well where do I begin? Pickup has been quite the fucking journey.

I think for me the hardest concept was female changeability. How you could be sure a girl likes you but she still does self sabotaging behavior like playing way too hard to get. Or their mood shifts. In particular @Teevster articles have really been helpful to clear a lot of the ambiguity which drove me loony.

Basically I got angry at chicks for messing up and never gave second chances despite that they were begging for it because I looked at everything in a linear way not understanding female changeability being caused by the most random things

But yeah the cognitive dissonance was real

Where can I find the teevster article as I'm wrapping my head around the same things

I really dislike that guy covertly snubbing girlschase even though I suspect he took a lot from this site. Anyway, not to rock the boat further...

For ME. Well where do I begin? Pickup has been quite the fucking journey.

I think for me the hardest concept was female changeability. How you could be sure a girl likes you but she still does self sabotaging behavior like playing way too hard to get. Or their mood shifts. In particular @Teevster articles have really been helpful to clear a lot of the ambiguity which drove me loony.

Basically I got angry at chicks for messing up and never gave second chances despite that they were begging for it because I looked at everything in a linear way not understanding female changeability being caused by the most random things

But yeah the cognitive dissonance was real

Where can I find the teevster article,regarding this coz I'm facing the same issues in regards to mindset in a way

 

[Hunter O-2]

I just completed an article on a concept I find most guys all the way up to just below 'advanced' generally struggle with in terms of understanding/seducing women.

Just curious here where guys starting out are getting hung up mentally.

I assume every guy with an account here is familiar at least in passing with most of the mentalities in seduction.

Actually grasping them can be another matter...

What is the most 'foreign' concept or practice in seduction to you?

I assume that on some of these we are probably not pacing guys totally perfectly, especially if guys are coming in feeling like "Whoa, that is a weird thing to try and grasp" meanwhile we are saying "This thing is totally normal and obvious and if you don't get it you will struggle!"

Chase

The boyfriend vs the lover thing,as someone who found pickup looking for a girlfriend and had to learn game from scratch and had to do fundamental I'm better with women than ever and I'm in my journeymen stage and evolving,I sometimes get it and understand why you must be the lover and I always try to present myself as one although I'm still a work in progress but I sometimes don't ,where I'm from it happens that the guys ask the girls to be their boyfriends and they pretty much succeed and have lasting relationships then I get puzzled how they do it you know since it kind of fails for me anyway that's how I found girls chase and does the boyfriend fall into the provider role? and how so ? And where I'm from especially with courtships we don't do any fancy dates like at all we just have meetups if you run game well you sleep with her of course you going to get her as your girl of course and if you ask her to and even confess feelings be your gf and you like her and it works for these dudes and I'm seriously confused

 

[L8D8]

Hardest concepts for me are to escape oneitis and how to escalate. I haven't seen any articles on here that address older men like me. I am 67 yo, successful, bald but otherwise fit and athletic looking. I was married for 15 years and have two grown sons.

A woman I was dating dumped me 6 weeks ago so I decided to put some of these PUA concepts into practice. I've always been a "nice" guy with a pretty normal dating history (16 is my lifetime number). I've never tried to run up my number until now, I'm pissed off at being dumped. I have no trouble getting dates from online with quality women. Instead of my past oneitis fixation, I want to sleep with them all, just for the challenge. From among them I'll eventually settle into a LRT with the best one.

I've only just begun attempting to adopt the PUA mentality and here is what I want to do on my next few dates:

FRAME CONTROL
I am good at deep diving and engaging women in interesting conversation. However, instead of listening to their stream of consciousness chatter, I will create a romantic and sexual frame. I've always been afraid to do this lest she get angry or retire to her fainting couch.

COMPLIANCE
This is a new concept for me although I have accidently used it in the past. Last weekend I shamelessly used it on a date, and it worked surprisingly easily. I look forward to field testing compliance this weekend.

ESCALATION
This has long been a real sticking point for me. I always thought I was being a gentleman waiting a few dates to kiss close only for her to get bored and ghost me. The last few first dates I have gone for the kiss after getting a certain amount of compliance first. Mixed results but much better than before.

Okay, I am still working on more consistently closing the deal. It still feels like asking too much of a girl I haven't known for long to sleep with her. However, now after having been recently dumped by a woman I liked, I don't care and just want to have fun with them.

 

[Stark]

@Chase

For me it's viewing women sexually.

I've read your articles on viewing women as sex objects and picturing the conquest, as well as the bit on sexual visualization in your sexual charisma handbook.

Takes a gigantic deliberate effort to actively view the woman I'm talking to sexually.


But I'd like to achieve this more or less constant sexual state like naturals where they exude a sexual vibe even when talking with women they're not necessarily trying to pick up.

Please tell me you’ve read Nancy Fridays books. Especially ‘Forbidden Flowers’ & ‘My Secret Garden’.

Else grab them right away & read cover to cover. You’ll never be the same again

Not to mention the many ways you can use these books in your sexual frame & sex talks from now on

 

[Kaida]

The hardest concept to wrap my head around in the beginning was frame.

The word "frame" was used in so many different ways and contexts that I don't even think I fully understood it until recently.

It's used as a verb and a noun interchangebly, sometimes even in the same sentence. Frame can mean the meaning behind the interaction, the set of beliefs a person has, the actions they take that show the beliefs they have, etc.

Just check this sentence out

The man chose his actions carefully so he could set the frame he desired and frame himself as high value, while making sure they fit her frame, hoping to reframe the conversation before she could frame him as someone undesirable.

May seem simple for a seducer, but very confusing for a beginner.

I just opted to skip any article that talked about frames in depth until after it clicked for me after a few years of reading.

( And I’’ll be honest I’m still clueless on some concepts like frame-“grabbing” and “social frame”.)