Whats the oldest woman you slept with?

[Rakkum]

We have women in my community (I run a women's dating business) who are married to men who are 20 to 30+ years younger than they are.

Vision, please tell us more about that business and what have you learned from it!

 

[Train]

Vision, please tell us more about that business and what have you learned from it!

Seconded. I'd love to hear a woman's dating coach perspective on what woman think about men and dating in this day and age.

 

[Rakkum]

I was always just totally honest with her about not being a one girl guy and how crazy I was about her but how I couldn't give up pickup because it was my project then, I'd just started learning it, it was something I needed to learn, and leaving it now would destroy me and so on.

How exactly does that conversation go? When? What is being said explicitly, what implicitly?

This would make a good article

 

[Jensen]

How exactly does that conversation go? When? What is being said explicitly, what implicitly?

This would make a good article

Would it actually be for the wider segment of the GirlsChase audience?

I guess if Chase presented it as 'Do you still want to practice pickup while in a relationship?, Here are five tips.", but I feel this might be a little too personal and attached to his prior relationship for him to want to do such an article.

 

[Vision]

Vision, please tell us more about that business and what have you learned from it!

I could write a book on it, lol.

One of the things I've learned is that women have just as many problems as men do, they're just different problems.

If you're a woman and you want to meet a guy, it's not quite as simple as a guy meeting women. If she doesn't get approached, it could be a very difficult thing for her to figure out how to get approached, especially by the kind of guy she wants to meet.

The guys who are just out approaching women are usually players, pick up artists, and fuck boys. If you want something real with a guy, those probably aren't the guys you're looking for. So you need to figure out how to get the shy, masculine guy who isn't running around banging every chick he can to approach you and that's a challenge.

As a woman, a man who wants to fuck you isn't necessarily the same man who wants to marry or be in a relationship with you, and they often get that confused. So they tend to get hooked on some player or fuck boy who doesn't want something real with them and they tend to shy away from good men who don't have the same set of conversational skills.

I get a lot of guys who think that only fat and ugly girls want dating advice... my first coaching client ever was a model. She had oneitis on this dude who just wanted to bang her and she was trying to figure out how to get him to marry her. I have a lot of those kinds of clients now.

If you send a woman a dick pic, you're just one guy in a large line of dick pics that she's gotten.

Most women want a fairytale romance where they meet a guy who sweeps them off their feet and rides off into the sunset and what they generally get is some dude who's lying about how many girls he's fucking banging her and her sister.

As a guy, the difficulty is getting to sex... for women, that's the easy part (usually). She has to figure out if you're the kind of guy that will be committed and marry her, and sex usually doesn't determine that. So a lot of women have problems of "being used" by men for sex (like a lot of men have problems being used for emotional or financial resources from women).

A lot of women are confused about the difference between sex and love as well as attention and love.

The women's dating advice industry is just as manipulative and deceptive as the PUA community except it's about getting a guy to commit to them instead of just fucking someone.

A lot of women are giving up on dating and relationships as much as men are right now.

Ultimately, they want to feel loved, special, and valued just as much as the rest of us. We all pretty much want something similar and we're all trying to figure out how to get there with the opposite sex.

They're scared of being hurt by men, used by men, and devalued by men. They want something real and they're hoping that you're the man who is going to give it to them... they're hoping that you see their value, their beauty, their grace, and realize that they're that one special woman that you've been looking for your entire life.

They want to fall in love and they want you to fall in love with them. They want to respect you, feel proud to have you in their lives, and feel like they're enough for you so that you don't need anyone else.

Being strong as a man is as attractive to women as being soft and feminine is attractive to a man.

 

[Vision]

BTW, if you're interested in hearing about women dating and marrying younger men, check out the comment section of this video I did last year...

 

[PalmaSailor]

This is fantastic analysis, @Will_V.

Agree with your solutions.

The underlying key being of course that a man must find a way to establish unassailable authority for himself if he wants a legitimate patriarch role.

There are ways to do this in the West, but it veers into talking about asset protection, which is necessary to remove the ability of women to turn to the state to strip a man of assets (and, thus, provider authority). Women are a lot less likely to do that when they'll end up being losers if they do, rather than winners.

I talked about much of this here, previously:

10 Steps to Not Get Raped in Your Divorce

When a marriage crumbles, men fast learn the system is stacked against them. But divorce rape is not inevitable; you can beat the system. Tom and Beth loved each other. They married with nothing but the purest intentions of love and commitment. Divorce was the farthest thing from either of their...

www.girlschase.com

A lot of guys don't want to talk or think about that, because they're fully in the "all you need is love" paradigm, and considering that their sweet little lady might ever go to war with them for their assets is a dark thought they'd rather not entertain.

So they just bumble along in nervous hope and uncertainty, and do the clumsy sitcom man-of-the-house thing, and then if the day comes when their little lady does turn the power of the state on them they're shocked and bitter and retreat to the manosphere in wounded horror.

You can't really blame the men for this. Nor can you blame the women. Most people are going through their lives only semi-consciously, simply responding to the incentives in the environment around them. When you arrive at a society where to lead a normal, happy, productive life you basically need to be fully conscious and in-control of yourself, your environment, and your decisions, or else just hope you get lucky, you have arrived at a society that is simply too complex for most normal people to navigate successfully on a consistent basis, and is going to lead to a lot of broken lives and people.

Chase

I thought I’d pitch in on this because I’ve got the t shirt lol

In terms of wanting children, most women today think they don’t want them, follow the feminist dream until late 30’s and early 40’s and then panic like fuck. But by then it’s too late.

I get one or two of these a week from women via online dating. We matched, and she opened the conversation with me. Then She’s just noticed I already have children and she’s face palming.

https://imgur.com/a/SFDMEy2

*edited to remove photo/location

I gave her my standard response that by my age the types of men that haven’t already got children probably don’t have any teeth either. My online age is 47 but I’m 53.

Personally I didn’t want children until I woke up one morning after a boozy night out at 33. I remember the day. I have always been successful with women but didn’t even have a girlfriend and I was blue pill.

I got married within months of making a decision and we had a son who is now 18.

The divorce was a decade ago and was nasty, it followed the 2008 banking crisis, and I lost almost everything. I had a good relationship with my son until a few years back and now my ex has alienated him. Despite all that, I possibly would go again with children here in the U.K. if I could filter the right woman. The jury is out on that.


It’s only just become a possibility because my game has only just got tight enough to attract a 25 year old, and that’s been going on for 7 months now. I now do have the game to maintain desire in her. Note - that it’s my job to “manage” her

But I wouldn’t marry again - because that’s offering someone a call option on a portion of your assets that is assessed by the state. Also in the U.K. child support is based on your CURRENT earnings. If they reduce, you can get the support modified, whereas I believe in the US it’s set at a share of your income and it doesn’t go down if your earnings do.

The prospect of a childless existence for men is a sad thing, and it’s terrible that the legal framework is so overbearing that men are opting out. It will go full circle as more and more women like the above one scream louder and louder until they finally accept a cat and box wine filled childless existence. Finally the state will have to change the penalties for the man engaging. But that is a very very long way off. It’ll get to women so desperate for children that they sign away any claim they have against the ma just to get one. But even that won’t work because it won’t be legally enforceable.

But that doesn’t help men now. Right now the solution is to understand game. I don’t know if you realistically can protect your assets, and to be very very careful who you let into your life / possibly go somewhere that is less hostile to men and find a woman there.

 

[Chase]

@PalmaSailor,

Some great anecdotes here.

In terms of wanting children, most women today think they don’t want them, follow the feminist dream until late 30’s and early 40’s and then panic like fuck. But by then it’s too late.

Looks like in the U.K. the average age at first marriage for women is 31.5. First kid at 28.9.

So it's probably about half of them hitting 30 without ever having married or had a child. That's nuts..

I get one or two of these a week from women via online dating. We matched, and she opened the conversation with me. Then She’s just noticed I already have children and she’s face palming.

My read there is it seems like she's saying, "Oh, you've had a child. So that might mean you won't want to go through it again. But really I am looking for a baby daddy..."

If it was me I might be replying with something along the lines of, "Yep, so we know my shooter works. He's all grown up and out of the house now though. I miss having little kids."

Just a little light flirtation + setting it out for her that you haven't totally ruled out having more, so that concern of hers is allayed.

The divorce was a decade ago and was nasty, it followed the 2008 banking crisis, and I lost almost everything. I had a good relationship with my son until a few years back and now my ex has alienated him.

That's rough, man. My condolences.

I've read some stuff about these alienated kids, where the one parent turns them against the other.

A lot of the time once they reach a certain age, and have their own romantic experiences that put things more in perspective, they look back around and realize the stuff they were getting fed was lies and reconnect with the parent.

Meanwhile though you're out of the picture in terms of influencing his life.

Despite all that, I possibly would go again with children here in the U.K. if I could filter the right woman. The jury is out on that.

Yeah. Might help to move on by simply starting over with a carefully selected gal. Either there or in greener pastures.

It’s only just become a possibility because my game has only just got tight enough to attract a 25 year old, and that’s been going on for 7 months now. I now do have the game to maintain desire in her. Note - that it’s my job to “manage” her

This is great. Great progress.

But I wouldn’t marry again - because that’s offering someone a call option on a portion of your assets that is assessed by the state. Also in the U.K. child support is based on your CURRENT earnings. If they reduce, you can get the support modified, whereas I believe in the US it’s set at a share of your income and it doesn’t go down if your earnings do.

There's a fair bit you can do with asset protection, but some of it is frowned on by the state. And you need to be pretty on top of it.

For the average guy, most of it will be too complicated to pull off, and/or he won't want to have to bothered to think about it. So in reality most guys are always going to be marks for any sufficiently vindictive woman in this kind of system.

The prospect of a childless existence for men is a sad thing, and it’s terrible that the legal framework is so overbearing that men are opting out. It will go full circle as more and more women like the above one scream louder and louder until they finally accept a cat and box wine filled childless existence. Finally the state will have to change the penalties for the man engaging. But that is a very very long way off. It’ll get to women so desperate for children that they sign away any claim they have against the ma just to get one. But even that won’t work because it won’t be legally enforceable.

Both men and women are lied to by this system.

Men are lied to and told if they're good enough husbands, they don't have anything to worry about.

Women are lied to and told if they're unhappy for any reason, they can break up the family and loot the man's assets, then go be happy.

Obviously not everybody falls for the lies. A lot of men are very conscious and aggressive about protecting assets and being very careful what women they select. And a lot of women know that divorce will be ruinous for them, even if they get 'awarded' some share of the man's assets.

In my own extended family, I have seen five divorces. Four of the five were initiated by the men, against the women's protests. None of the women strayed or anything like that and all were for the most part good wives. The men just got tired of being married to them and wanted out. In all four cases the women were heartbroken for a good while. One seems like she still never fully recovered from it, 15 years later. In one of these divorces, the man pushed for the divorce, then pushed the wife (who had a lot more money) to give him a big payoff or else he would just stay separated from her but fight the divorce so she could not move on. She eventually paid.

So it is definitely not that all women are clamoring for their shot at carving the family up and running off with the man's earnings. Especially not when the women are more highly educated and have better prospects in life -- usually these women have chosen their mates carefully and don't buy into the B.S. about divorce being 'liberating'. A lot of the times they realize they are unlikely to find another man of the caliber their husband is if they're divorced and left alone in their older age.

But that doesn’t help men now. Right now the solution is to understand game. I don’t know if you realistically can protect your assets, and to be very very careful who you let into your life / possibly go somewhere that is less hostile to men and find a woman there.

Yes, being very careful about whom you let in is crucial.

Heading somewhere less hostile to men is an excellent option if you're the sort who is able to pull up roots, then can adapt to somewhere different. Not everyone can, I realize.

Though if things continue being as broken as they are, you may well see more and more guys realizing that it turns out after all they are exactly 'emigrant material'

Chase

 

[DarkStallion]

Interest in older women isn’t a new trend. Benjamin Franklin encouraged it in 1745. (Although for mistresses not wives.) Some of his reasons sound pretty similar to those given here. #5 is the best.

https://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/bdorsey1/41docs/51-fra.html

Benjamin Franklin, Advice to a Young Man on the Choice of a Mistress (1745).

June 25, 1745

My dear Friend,

I know of no Medicine fit to diminish the violent natural Inclinations you mention; and if I did, I think I should not communicate it to you. Marriage is the proper Remedy. It is the most natural State of Man, and therefore the State in which you are most likely to find solid Happiness. Your Reasons against entering into it at present, appear to me not well-founded. The circumstantial Advantages you have in View by postponing it, are not only uncertain, but they are small in comparison with that of the Thing itself, the being married and settled. It is the Man and Woman united that make the compleat human Being. Separate, she wants his Force of Body and Strength of Reason; he, her Softness, Sensibility and acute Discernment. Together they are more likely to succeed in the World. A single Man has not nearly the Value he would have in that State of Union. He is an incomplete Animal. He resembles the odd Half of a Pair of Scissars. If you get a prudent healthy Wife, your Industry in your Profession, with her good Economy, will be a Fortune sufficient.

But if you will not take this Counsel, and persist in thinking a Commerce with the Sex inevitable, then I repeat my former Advice, that in all your Amours you should prefer old Women to young ones. You call this a Paradox, and demand my Reasons. They are these:

i. Because as they have more Knowledge of the World and their Minds are better stor'd with Observations, their Conversation is more improving and more lastingly agreable.

2. Because when Women cease to be handsome, they study to be good. To maintain their Influence over Men, they supply the Diminution of Beauty by an Augmentation of Utility. They learn to do a 1000 Services small and great, and are the most tender and useful of all Friends when you are sick. Thus they continue amiable. And hence there is hardly such a thing to be found as an old Woman who is not a good Woman.

3. Because there is no hazard of Children, which irregularly produc'd may be attended with much Inconvenience.

4. Because thro' more Experience, they are more prudent and discreet in conducting an Intrigue to prevent Suspicion. The Commerce with them is therefore safer with regard to your Reputation. And with regard to theirs, if the Affair should happen to be known, considerate People might be rather inclin'd to excuse an old Woman who would kindly take care of a young Man, form his Manners by her good Counsels, and prevent his ruining his Health and Fortune among mercenary Prostitutes.

5. Because in every Animal that walks upright, the Deficiency of the Fluids that fill the Muscles appears first in the highest Part: The Face first grows lank and wrinkled; then the Neck; then the Breast and Arms; the lower Parts continuing to the last as plump as ever: So that covering all above with a Basket, and regarding2 only what is below the Girdle, it is impossible of two Women to know an old from a young one. And as in the dark all Cats are grey, the Pleasure of corporal Enjoyment with an old Woman is at least equal, and frequently superior, every Knack being by Practice capable of Improvement.

6. Because the Sin is less. The debauching a Virgin may be her Ruin, and make her for Life unhappy.

7. Because the Compunction is less. The having made a young Girl miserable may give you frequent bitter Reflections; none of which can attend the making an old Woman happy.

8thly and Lastly They are so grateful!!

Thus much for my Paradox. But still I advise you to marry directly; being sincerely Your affectionate Friend.

 

[POB]

Right now there's another legal precedent because of this covid situation called "girlfriend contract"

It's a legal paper signed by both parties stating they are together but do not intend to raise a family. It's kind of a pre-pre-nup for non-married couples that can be validadet in a court of law in case things go south.

It's worth looking into with your attorney if you are living together with any chick (or planning to do so in the near future).

 

[Chase]

Good ol' Ben Franklin, putting in his vote for the old gals!

I got a good chuckle out of his #5. Used to have a boss who'd say something very similar: "They all feel the same once you turn out the lights..."

Benjamin Franklin: the original "put a bag over her head" playboy (in his case, "covering all above [her lower parts] with a Basket").

#3 is also a lot of fun. Irregularly produced children may indeed be attended by much inconvenience.

Also, "making a young woman unhappy" vs. "making an old woman happy."

He wouldn't be one you'd want to cross wits with in a debate, that's for sure.

 

[Whiteheart]

She was 46. I was 23. Another was 37, I was 23. Milf lover here.

 

[DarkStallion]

@Chase

Definitely! Some say he put it into practice too. I remember hearing how the old French ladies loved him.

 

[trashKENNUT]

Right now there's another legal precedent because of this covid situation called "girlfriend contract

Funny.

How Islam used to have this in their history and still today in some countries, to mitigate premarital sex.

Power and control is such a weird thing.

z@c+

 

[Vision]

Ben Franklin, writing listicle articles before it was cool to do so. Mad props.

 

[Will KZ]

I slept with a 46 year old when I was 29 and it was great. She had a gorgeous face and kept her body in great shape and was a super positive person. I think I was a little too rough with her in bed though, even though she was fairly wild, she didn't want to see me again after that one night. She had had kids and was leaving the country a month later so we knew it was always a casual thing. Also, one thing I realised after more experience is that women beyond their mid-30s can be a little...dry sometimes. She was more like a teenager in a 40 year old milf body.

And I'm not exactly into the older women thing. In my early 30s now and I'm usually sleeping with 20 year olds, but some women in their 30s and 40s do a fantastic job in keeping it together and looking great and I don't think it has anything to do with cultural biases. How many men are reading Jezebel anyway? As for serious relationships, that's a whole different matter since they're either on an accelerated timeline, or they're already into the family rearing part of their lives.

 

[ocean_eyes]

She was 64 I was 30....I was really pushing the age brackets. LMAO.

She was giving me music lessons, at her local church.
Which is also where we fucked...like 8 feet from a huge Jesus painting.
I'm going to hell.

 

[Rain]

Also a momma's boy but hope to God that doesn't factor into this... Would be a field day for my therapist..

I was definitely a momma's boy growing up. So there's that.

Can you both maybe give some details, what do you mean by momma's boy? I'd rather ask instead of making a wrong assumption

 

[Train]

Can you both maybe give some details, what do you mean by momma's boy? I'd rather ask instead of making a wrong assumption

At least for me, I'm closer to my mom than the average guy. And used to be more needy for her approval, which I've grown out of with stronger boundaries.

 

[dingdong]

Can you both maybe give some details, what do you mean by momma's boy? I'd rather ask instead of making a wrong assumption

Means like, very close with my mom. Closer with my mom than my dad. Not that i love my dad less, i just spent more time around my mom and am closer to her and she was very protective of me and took very good care of me.