Break Ups  Got suddenly dumped by an one year LTR girl with depression

HeartOfChaos said:

Skills, yes, you were totally right from beginning. I think you were first to respond to my thread and immediately picked up that I screwed up.

I had a look at my previous messages with the girl (there are so many). Yeah, I fucked up, it is so obvious. Back in May, when she made the first attempt and we were on shaky grounds for several days, in her messages she explicitly said stuff like:

- "tried telling you that I don't know about our situation",
- "I told you about all the things that make me feel weird"

So yeah. It was building for quite some time before July. And this realisation makes me feel like shit. It makes me feel like shit because internally I wanted to do many of those things that she was alluding to, that I did not do. I was just afraid of taking a step into the unknown territory. I've never been in that stage with a woman before when I was seriously considering her for a long term prospect, maybe marriage even. The only / main thing I can say in my defense is that I did not have enough time to mitigate things in recent weeks, as she was not back here for long.

A part of me just wants to reach out to her and say "look, I know I fucked up before and I did not pay enough attention to what you were saying....Let's just start take a break and start gently on a clean page."

But what't the use, given that I already messaged a week ago to her saying I want to give it "another chance", and she is like "can't do it, I am sorry", then wrote her the postcard saying I know I made mistake, etc. And I understand that not contacting her, at least for a while is the best chance I have.

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I would recommend you watch my break up video... I mentioned all of that is normal to blame yourself and become her defense attorney

Skills said:

Good luck doing this when she reaches breaking point...

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Yeah this is why I think it's from her super low self esteem though... other girls have enough self respect to move on. I have definitely seen auto-rejection with other girls, cycling back, etc. But not this case. I am honestly fascinated with the psychology of it.

She texted me EVERY single day since July 3 with NO REPLY until I finally went and fucked her last night (August 5). The post was just about one week of texting and only like half of it (I removed her basic sex talk messages). I've been fucking her for like three or four years maybe, can't remember.

The one above was fixer upper game. I think she views me as way out of her league and like she can't do better. Though she has gotten wayy fitter for me over time.

Here's another case, Low Drive this time.

The lack of self respect is totally insane. Obviously most girls will not he so extreme cases, but this one his her insanity pretty well for a while. So I think it's very important to screen for this stuff (for long term, main, mono context). She eventually yelled at me in public and I hard nexted her for quite a long time after that. But both these girls do not know where I live.

Her:
I'm just not sure if I'm in a rush to hang. It'd be nice to see you again. But I'm not in a rush to do so.
I'm still trying to find what makes me happy or how to rediscover it.

Me: Ok good luck!

Her:
Why are you saying that
I said we can still hang at some point
Did you not read that part?
I didn't say goodbye, but that I am not in a rush
And that should be fine since you always have others anyway
Like what's the difference if we hang soon versus like a month or more later?
There's literally no difference

Me: Yep no worries! I wish you well

Her:
I'm not saying I want you out of my life...
I'm saying we can make plans at a later date
Do you not know how to read?

Me: Yep, feel free to reach out in the future. Until then I hope your happiness journey is successful

Her:
You can reach out and make plans
I don't ever communicate with people first
Why are you being like this anyways?
Why did what I say trigger you so much?

Me: I can understand your need to focus on yourself right now and hope it goes well

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*three missed calls*

Her:
But I still want you to make effort
Do you not get that?
Why are you purposefully ignoring
Also why did you try to stay out of my life for months after moving
It seems like you never cared

Me: Correct. I am not going to invest in a connection that yields more negative than positive outcome

Her:
Well I won't be negative
Can you please start making an effort
?
Francis?
Why are you going quiet now
You said we can plan to see each other another day
Did you forget

Me: Sure feel free to reach out to me in the fall if/when you are feeling up to it

Her:
Why not summer?
I don't want us to not talk until fall
And I want you to initiate for a change
If you don't I will never see you
Why would we have to wait until fall
??
Why would not it be before then
Why are you ignoring
I'm so irritated by your lack of effort
Why do you keep ignoring
Francis?
When do you plan to make time
Well
Why no response

Me: I thought you said a month or more

Her:
Well I take it back
Would like to see you sooner
Francis?
Can I see you soon
Why are you ignoring
Francis?
Can I please see you soon

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HeartOfChaos said:

To be honest, I really felt sorry for her hearing all these stories and her depression. This is actually what was getting me really emotionally invested and attached to her. I wanted to make her feel better and somehow grow together.

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HeartOfChaos said:

I felt very lonely too. I fucked many women but always struggled to get young, sexy, desirables ones. I have no real male friends and some events in my life (death of my mother, financial problems, some health issues) have hit me hard in recent years. So I was relieved and happy at last to meet a younger chick who was slim, attractive, submissive and actually wanted to be with me.

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This is what I was referring to in post #2 of the thread regarding using her vulnerability.

Even though you may have genuinely wanted to help her and were not "taking advantage of her", what you are doing here is trading something (being her savior) for her affections. Of course it's good to support and encourage a woman, but this is different.

You personally are suffering through the incredibly painful loss of your mother and other issues. I am truly so sorry to hear about your mother. I really cannot imagine how intense that suffering could be.

But when you are in that sort of place and are "relieved" to find an attractive girl who actually wants to be with you, man that is the very definition of being in low abundance. It's like holy shit I finally found a job that will pay me more than minimum wage. Finally! I got ONE. Oneitis.

So you are glad to find a girl who's in just as much of a suffering place as you because you have her in a controlled state where she is not going to leave you. Not that you're trying to stockholm syndrome her, but she is just as starved as you, so you have "higher value". You know a mentally healthy girl may see you as not in a good enough place for her. If you were in a good mental place personally, you would absolutely not see it as a benefit that you get the opportunity of helping her heal. You are just glad that she has a need to heal so that she is in a position that makes her need you and not leave you.

Because you evolved to spread you genes with a woman who will bond to you enough to nurture that child together. And you see her position as something you can exploit to make that happen. Maybe not maliciously. The subconscious driver is a beautiful thing: to create a new pure life together. Not your shared life together. A baby.

But you are buying damaged goods because it is on sale. It's a used car from the junkyard with a big dent in the side you're glad to find because it's what you can afford right now.

There was not one mention of her good qualities in this thread I can recall besides your "chemistry" I.e. a girl who was finally submissive to you. Because a girl who is thriving in her life would see herself as above you and your suffering right now and would not be submissive to you.

And just look at those girls that I posted about right above here. I am doing the same thing - engaging with girls who are more needy than I am so I can cure my abundance problem.

However, I am not considering marriage or riding in on a white horse.

KJ Francis said:

This is what I was referring to in post #2 of the thread regarding using her vulnerability.

Even though you may have genuinely wanted to help her and were not "taking advantage of her", what you are doing here is trading something (being her savior) for her affections. Of course it's good to support and encourage a woman, but this is different.

You personally are suffering through the incredibly painful loss of your mother and other issues. I am truly so sorry to hear about your mother. I really cannot imagine how intense that suffering could be.

But when you are in that sort of place and are "relieved" to find an attractive girl who actually wants to be with you, man that is the very definition of being in low abundance. It's like holy shit I finally found a job that will pay me more than minimum wage. Finally! I got ONE. Oneitis.

So you are glad to find a girl who's in just as much of a suffering place as you because you have her in a controlled state where she is not going to leave you. Not that you're trying to stockholm syndrome her, but she is just as starved as you, so you have "higher value". You know a mentally healthy girl may see you as not in a good enough place for her. If you were in a good mental place personally, you would absolutely not see it as a benefit that you get the opportunity of helping her heal. You are just glad that she has a need to heal so that she is in a position that makes her need you and not leave you.

Because you evolved to spread you genes with a woman who will bond to you enough to nurture that child together. And you see her position as something you can exploit to make that happen. Maybe not maliciously. The subconscious driver is a beautiful thing: to create a new pure life together. Not your shared life together. A baby.

But you are buying damaged goods because it is on sale. It's a used car from the junkyard with a big dent in the side you're glad to find because it's what you can afford right now.

There was not one mention of her good qualities in this thread I can recall besides your "chemistry" I.e. a girl who was finally submissive to you. Because a girl who is thriving in her life would see herself as above you and your suffering right now and would not be submissive to you.

And just look at those girls that I posted about right above here. I am doing the same thing - engaging with girls who are more needy than I am so I can cure my abundance problem.

However, I am not considering marriage or riding in on a white horse.

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Well, in my view "chemistry" between two people is one of the first and foremost good qualities in itself - and this is more than just being "submissive", as plenty of girls might be submissive, but that doesn't mean I liked them very much. And of course I did not feel the need to mention some other traits that I liked - kindness, being more family oriented...

It's been one week exactly since no contact started. Not a word from her, but that's unsurprising, given she's away with her relatives and never initiated communication that much anyway. And here's the rub that you picked up on: everyone, including her, has family and relatives to go to, and their own native homeland. While I have absolutely no-one (my mother was single) and my original homeland is far away (I don't even have citizenship there any longer, although I can reinstate it I believe) and man, this causes intense moments of pain and loneliness . Since the death of my mother the dawning realisation that I need someone, a family, has been gnawing away at me stronger and stronger.

Well the good news is that whether you want her back or not, the short term strategy is the same - get out of scarcity and engage with other women.

I would just remember "kindness" and being "family oriented" are also not the rarest qualities in the world.

Being in scarcity of these qualities will still make you view her through rose colored glasses when there are many girls out there who may be more suited to family building. Don't forget she "does absolutely nothing" and is "emotionally healing through cats".

KJ Francis said:

Well the good news is that whether you want her back or not, the short term strategy is the same - get out of scarcity and engage with other women.

I would just remember "kindness" and being "family oriented" are also not the rarest qualities in the world.

Being in scarcity of these qualities will still make you view her through rose colored glasses when there are many girls out there who may be more suited to family building. Don't forget she "does absolutely nothing" and is "emotionally healing through cats".

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Of course. But getting out of scarcity and engaging with other women is easier said than done, given that I get next to no matches on dating apps nowdays (or at least with women that I’d be interested in) , and Daygame yields next to nothing, despite me investing hundreds, if not thousands of hours over the years. But that’s another question entirely.

HeartOfChaos said:

Of course. But getting out of scarcity and engaging with other women is easier said than done, given that I get next to no matches on dating apps nowdays (or at least with women that I’d be interested in) , and Daygame yields next to nothing, despite me investing hundreds, if not thousands of hours over the years. But that’s another question entirely.

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So what is the alternative... Being in onitis with an ex that has no biz being main...

You can improve brother.... Now is the time to do it .

Wow, this was quite a thread.

@HeartOfChaos:

HeartOfChaos said:

and Daygame yields next to nothing, despite me investing hundreds, if not thousands of hours over the years. But that’s another question entirely.

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Are you, yourself, on the autism spectrum?

Given the lengthy and analytical nature of your replies, the way you conducted your relationship, and the lack of results from hundreds to thousands of hours day gaming, I have to wonder.

If so, would help explain some of the relationship issues pre-breakup here.

Not to mention the response to the breakup talk:

HeartOfChaos said:

She came up with a whole outburst tirade:

"You don't see my friends... In my culture we meet friends socially... Where is this likely to lead? Do you want to be with me? Do you want to marry me? Have children? Where are we gonna live? I also don't feel like I can have a relationship in my state...I don't love you... I was with you all this time because I didn't want to be lonely.... I was thinking you'd leave me soon after we met but you stayed and I liked you and your attention"

To me, it seemed like she thought it was a situationship rather than LTR (in fact she did say explicitly a few months prior once: "what are we? In a situationship?" That I simply ignored).

It's as if a whole flood of emotion came out that evening, mix of various rationalisations and explanations...

I basically blurted out that "I always loved you. I am open to marriage...But you need a job here first...I want to be together and develop with you...but you need to bring more to the table. I always tried to support and help you but you contributed very little Stuff like not meeting your friends is not critical to me as I want to spend time with you, not your friends...". We talked a bit more and then I left saying something like "ok, take time off and re-think everything."

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I have seen this with other autistic men faced with the "salvage or bust" last chance relationship ultimatum from women:

The woman, at breaking point, states her demands / unmet needs, and the man responds with a list of his own demands + critiques.

The woman simply passes the breaking point completely, cannot take it any longer, gives up, and leaves.

If you are on the spectrum, read my article for autistic men:


Pay particular attention to the discussion of missed signals and progress intervals. Those were all clearly missed here.

This relationship is probably not salvageable if you're on the spectrum (too far gone, too many missed signals, too much squandered good will). That said, her long-running depression is a bit of a wildcard. I would not expect a passive girl to reach back out to you. No contact on passive girls typically leads to "no contact, PERIOD. End of story."

If you are NOT on the spectrum:

Reread her end-of-the-relationship cry for help. Put yourself in her shoes. Then, standing in her shoes, imagining what she is feeling in that moment, read your reply to her.

It got everything wrong:

• Offering a sudden love confession in response to her claiming a lack of love (WRONG)
• Offering commitment in response to a breaking-point ultimatum (WRONG)
• Giving a woman at breaking point a list of demands (WRONG)
• Telling a woman at breaking point what you are critical of her (WRONG)

If you are not on the autism spectrum, you should be able to reread that, seeing it from her point of view, and immediately slap yourself on the forehead saying, "Holy shit that was the worst response ever, what got into me, crap!"

And you will know much better for next time..!

Chase

Chase said:

This relationship is probably not salvageable if you're on the spectrum (too far gone, too many missed signals, too much squandered good will). That said, her long-running depression is a bit of a wildcard. I would not expect a passive girl to reach back out to you. No contact on passive girls typically leads to "no contact, PERIOD. End of story."

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This is a good point.

That said, "no contact" still has better odds than him trying to pursue her - especially long term.

But yeah better learn from this, and move on (focus on recovering from the break up - the sooner the better).

Not what OP wants to hear, but it is what he needs to hear.

-Teevster

Teevster said:

This is a good point.

That said, "no contact" still has better odds than him trying to pursue her - especially long term.

But yeah better learn from this, and move on (focus on recovering from the break up - the sooner the better).

Not what OP wants to hear, but it is what he needs to hear.

-Teevster

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Yes.

I would add -- for situations where the guy has screwed up, and knows what he screwed up, and has the capability to actually seduce -- pursuit > no contact.

For all other situations, no contact > pursuit; because if any of the elements is missing:

1. The guy hasn't actually screwed up, OR
2. The guy is not fully aware of how/where/why he screwed up, OR
3. The guy lacks the ability to actually seduce

... pursuit is only going to make things worse.

In this case, there's blame on both sides (so OP has screwed up), but he doesn't seem to understand where he screwed up, and he doesn't have the ability to seduce.

Pursuing given his situation & skill set is likely to be bad juju...

I personally don't think op is autistic... I seen those types of posts a million times post break ups... Post break ups my theory is a form of closure and therapy...

About lack of results i think op has bad fundamentals..

About the breaking point and trying to address those demands if you do at checkout post break point will just push her away more and anger her... She knows is not authentic and coes across needy...

Chase, thanks a lot for chiming in.

Chase said:

Are you, yourself, on the autism spectrum?

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I don't know. I was wondering about this for ages. Several online free tests I did show "slight tendencies", while one shows "borderline". Let's say slight for sake of argument.

Yes, I am very analytical. I am in STEM field. Also prone to self doubt and indecisiveness.

Regarding daygame: I fucked 40 or so women from it and formed several "relationships". I think a major part of the problem is my location (London). It's notoriously difficult here, especially nowdays, as reading several pua blogs will confirm. Overall, I found it much easier to get results in other cities in UK, and also abroad in Europe. Here in London 95% of women go into auto-rejection mode almost immediately.

Also: I still have a thick foreign accent (unexplicably), despite living her for decades. Some women, especially locals, when I approach them randomly also tend to get turned off by this.

I have actually daygamed with several other guys over the years, and I had the opportunity to witness myself first hand their austistic traits, which were quite obvious. It's not really the case with me - if I have it, it is subtle. Unfortunately it seems that pua community attracts many men with strong autistic traits.

I think the number one problem is that I tend to be stuck in my head a lot of the time, and I am also rather "shy" to express my own deep feelings to people: I generally pick up on social cues, but have a tendency to be very undecisive and afraid to actually act....

Chase said:

This relationship is probably not salvageable if you're on the spectrum (too far gone, too many missed signals, too much squandered good will). That said, her long-running depression is a bit of a wildcard. I would not expect a passive girl to reach back out to you. No contact on passive girls typically leads to "no contact, PERIOD. End of story."

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Why do you say too much squandered good will? I still think we have good will towards each other even now...

My main concern that I expressed to Skills in my replies earlier is what you expressed about no contact: given that she is chronically low self esteem, very passive, depressed, I am wondering if she will reach out to me ever, even if she really wants to. As she said herself, it takes her to work up a lot of courage to express herself.

A part of me thinks the best option is to contact her in around a month time when she's back here (although she is back in 3 weeks I think) and see how she is doing.

Chase said:

For all other situations, no contact > pursuit; because if any of the elements is missing:

1. The guy hasn't actually screwed up, OR
2. The guy is not fully aware of how/where/why he screwed up, OR
3. The guy lacks the ability to actually seduce

... pursuit is only going to make things worse.

In this case, there's blame on both sides (so OP has screwed up), but he doesn't seem to understand where he screwed up, and he doesn't have the ability to seduce.

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Well I do get it now where I screwed up. And I perhaps got it before, it's just that as I mentioned I was delaying it, I delayed moving things forward. I got it, she wanted me to see her friends and all that, but I was really thinking it can wait longer. I am simply inexperienced in dealing with proper relationships at this stage and how vital social stuff is for a woman....

Problem is that she considers herself to be below other girls, including other girls I dated before, and approaches things from that frame...

Regarding ability to seduce: well how do you determine if I have it or not? I did fuck a good number of women from cold approach, and dating apps, including same day lays, and longer term dating...

Chase said:

It got everything wrong:

• Offering a sudden love confession in response to her claiming a lack of love (WRONG)
• Offering commitment in response to a breaking-point ultimatum (WRONG)
• Giving a woman at breaking point a list of demands (WRONG)
• Telling a woman at breaking point what you are critical of her (WRONG)

If you are not on the autism spectrum, you should be able to reread that, seeing it from her point of view, and immediately slap yourself on the forehead saying, "Holy shit that was the worst response ever, what got into me, crap!"

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Well, what was I supposed to say? Say that I don't love her? Deny that I was open to possibility of long term commitment, even though I was considering it myself for a while but didn't have the courage to talk to her openly?

HeartOfChaos said:

Well, what was I supposed to say? Say that I don't love her? Deny that I was open to possibility of long term commitment, even though I was considering it myself for a while but didn't have the courage to talk to her openly?

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Brah did you read the context after breaking point... No much you can do... But cut contact..

I could swear skills had a math rule for no contact length. Like 6 no contact per year of dating or something like that

KJ Francis said:

I could swear skills had a math rule for no contact length. Like 6 no contact per year of dating or something like that

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it depends some girls if you do contact correctly withing 3 weeks to a month.... Some withing 3 months, some withing 6 monhts.... Some a year later....

my theory is that when they meet new guy, and they get all exited of something new, after the novelty wears out and the mistakes of the new dude comes out, they miss last dude....

or like the video explain, they start getting the withdrawal stuff... i posted the video explaining...

Skills said:

it depends some girls if you do contact correctly withing 3 weeks to a month.... Some withing 3 months, some withing 6 monhts.... Some a year later....

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What is "correct" contact?

And as Chase pointed out, do you think cutting all contact for a prolonged period and anticipating for them to reach out first, work on low self esteem passive girls?

Skills said:

my theory is that when they meet new guy, and they get all exited of something new, after the novelty wears out and the mistakes of the new dude comes out, they miss last dude....

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makes sense... natural she would look back in comparison, not just to unknown potential future guy... good point too you can't fully base the timing on only you and her because it depends how good the new guy is at extending the honeymoon

will try to watch video... needs a better intro... "he's a slut, he's a hoe, he's a freak..."

@HeartOfChaos,

HeartOfChaos said:

Chase, thanks a lot for chiming in.



I don't know. I was wondering about this for ages. Several online free tests I did show "slight tendencies", while one shows "borderline". Let's say slight for sake of argument.

Yes, I am very analytical. I am in STEM field. Also prone to self doubt and indecisiveness.

Regarding daygame: I fucked 40 or so women from it and formed several "relationships". I think a major part of the problem is my location (London). It's notoriously difficult here, especially nowdays, as reading several pua blogs will confirm. Overall, I found it much easier to get results in other cities in UK, and also abroad in Europe. Here in London 95% of women go into auto-rejection mode almost immediately.

Also: I still have a thick foreign accent (unexplicably), despite living her for decades. Some women, especially locals, when I approach them randomly also tend to get turned off by this.

I have actually daygamed with several other guys over the years, and I had the opportunity to witness myself first hand their austistic traits, which were quite obvious. It's not really the case with me - if I have it, it is subtle. Unfortunately it seems that pua community attracts many men with strong autistic traits.

I think the number one problem is that I tend to be stuck in my head a lot of the time, and I am also rather "shy" to express my own deep feelings to people: I generally pick up on social cues, but have a tendency to be very undecisive and afraid to actually act....

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Oh, well 40 lays from day game is not "nothing!" (Unless the girls were all horrid or something!)

I don't know how many hours you put into it exactly -- there's a big difference between hundreds and thousands.

But there are plenty of guys who go out for 3 hours of day game sessions here, another 4 hours here, another 3 hours there, etc., before they get a lay. 15 hours of pickup per lay I would say is not unreasonable for an intermediate-tier day game seducer, and that would put you at 600 hours.

HeartOfChaos said:

Why do you say too much squandered good will? I still think we have good will towards each other even now...

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Generally by the point a girl is reaching a "breaking point" ultimatum she has burned out a lot on the relationship and has been feeling like she's spinning her wheels too long.

She may still be fond of you as a human being, but her relationship needs have gone unmet too long, and the ultimatum is the last-ditch effort to get them met.

HeartOfChaos said:

My main concern that I expressed to Skills in my replies earlier is what you expressed about no contact: given that she is chronically low self esteem, very passive, depressed, I am wondering if she will reach out to me ever, even if she really wants to. As she said herself, it takes her to work up a lot of courage to express herself.

A part of me thinks the best option is to contact her in around a month time when she's back here (although she is back in 3 weeks I think) and see how she is doing.

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I would agree with your analysis.

HeartOfChaos said:

Well I do get it now where I screwed up. And I perhaps got it before, it's just that as I mentioned I was delaying it, I delayed moving things forward. I got it, she wanted me to see her friends and all that, but I was really thinking it can wait longer. I am simply inexperienced in dealing with proper relationships at this stage and how vital social stuff is for a woman....

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Okay, that makes sense.

HeartOfChaos said:

Problem is that she considers herself to be below other girls, including other girls I dated before, and approaches things from that frame...

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This is annoying, because it makes the girl prone to self-sabotage her own relationships, but not insurmountable.

HeartOfChaos said:

Regarding ability to seduce: well how do you determine if I have it or not? I did fuck a good number of women from cold approach, and dating apps, including same day lays, and longer term dating...

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I assumed, based on a.) your reaction to her breaking point ultimatum (rather than seduce her back into the relationship you pushed her away further), b.) your inability to reel her back in even past that, and c.) hundreds or thousands of hours in the game "without results."

But if you actually were getting results from game and you're just not well-versed in relationships, then perhaps I assumed too much.

(This is one of the limitations of long text responses. There's a limit to how much of a back-and-forth you get into to ask questions before making prescriptions.)

HeartOfChaos said:

Well, what was I supposed to say? Say that I don't love her? Deny that I was open to possibility of long term commitment, even though I was considering it myself for a while but didn't have the courage to talk to her openly?

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No, none of that either.

When women hit you with a breaking point ultimatum, you need to deescalate them back from the brink, without giving concessions (which is rewarding bad behavior), while making them feel both completely understood, and also that they have misunderstood you.

Thus, when she says this:


You say this:


^ at this point, the ONLY thing you have done is read what she is feeling and reflect that back to her: the confusion, the instability, the lack of clarity, etc. You also reinforce your position as the leader of the relationship: she is waiting for signals from you, but you've been busy and she hasn't spoken up so you failed to notice what she was missing and respond to it properly. This spreads the blame between you as the busy-but-imperfect leader and her as the suppressed-and-imperfect follower.

At this point, you are going to DEESCALATE from the breakup talk and get her into a calm conversation about her needs. e.g.:


^ here you reassure her of her value to you ("important to me") without giving any specific concessions. You also do not list off items she needs to change. Instead, you next point out the contradictions in what she is saying (she wants marriage, kids, to know where the two of you will live -- but also, she doesn't love you and was just with you "because she likes the attention"). Then you jokingly accept all of it ("I mean, it sounds like a pretty fun time, not gonna lie."). This defuses the tension of her wondering if you are trying to "out-logic her" by pointing out her contradictions, and instead just makes a playful tease of it, while also validating her by hinting that maybe you could be open to it (but not actually saying you are, because it's wrapped in a joke). Then you tell her to slow down and talk about what's going on in a collaborative way, so she can tell you what really feels like it's missing without it being so much of a tirade.

If you haven't read it, read Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People. That is really all I am doing here. I talk about this process in these articles:



^ The Olive Rule is the most important one for you to read right now. It is for exactly your situation.

Worth noting:

• "Not seeing her friends" is a symptom. It is not the disease. "Meeting her friends more" will not fix the issue. It is "just an example" -- "I don't think you're really serious about me. Exhibit A. Exhibit B. Exhibit C." You don't even have to meet the friends really if you fix the main issue.
  
  
• "I don't even know if I love you" is a red herring. She's depressed and on meds; she has no idea what her emotions are. She's been seeing you for a year, fucking you, and is talking about marriage and kids and where to live with you. Whether she thinks she loves you or not is irrelevant. (I have had a girl coldly tell me that word for word during drama, both that she did not love me and was only with me because she was lonely and liked my attention, and just ignored it because if she is still fucking enthusiastically and holding up all her end of the relationship, who cares? Also I knew it was at least 50% BS; then at some later date I had the same girl me telling me over and over again "I love you so, so much" with stars coming out of her eyes, begging me to never leave her, etc.)
  
  
• "Can't have a relationship in my state" is a sign of overwhelm. She feels like she is failing to properly manage the relationship how she wants and is flailing around for anything to pin that one ("It must be the state I am in"). But all women exist in some kind of ongoing state of depression-anxiety-self-doubt. So this is not really anything either.
  
  
• The main thing is a.) she needs forward progress, b.) she sees you as a higher-value player who was just banging her then was going to move on, and c.) she now feels sucked into a relationship with a higher-value player who will almost certainly NOT progress things with her but whom she's struggling to get away from too and who, for inexplicable reasons to her, still has not moved on from her himself. This is what is really baking her noodle.

The problem here is you did not solve the issue when she brought it up to you, but instead worsened the divide then let her go.

Women backward rationalize, and the longer she is apart from you thinking about how things went, the more solidified it is going to become in her head that "It was fate. It was destiny. Things have gone the way they were always supposed to go."

I don't know how long it's been that she's away (didn't check the timetables here or anything) but if you understand all this, and you have read the Olive Rule article and grasp that concept thoroughly, and it all clicks intuitively, then the better play is just messaging her, "Hey, when you get back we need to talk," and not going any deeper into it than that.

(You know how when girls tell you "We need to talk" and don't say anything more you start going, "Oh shit what is this going to be about oh man Oh God" -- well it works exactly the same way when you use it on chicks. Kinda hilarious. They start panicking, trying to figure out what is going on in your head, trying to mind-read you... it is fantastic. Only thing is, whatever you do, don't go into any detail about what the conversation will be -- if she probes you just need to keep deflecting; you can't ruin the surprise or lessen the effect. This is a conversation that must be had in person. If you can't control yourself and try to have it over text or phone/video call you will blow everything up.)

Then you just get her out in person and run the Olive Rule with her.

Chase