LR  “My Sexual Terrorist” - First Russian Girl, from Bumble during COVID-19

Grand Pooba

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This was a big one for me for a few reasons:
  • First ever Russian girl! I’ve had very attractive Russian women interested in me for years, but even though I go on dates with most of them I never once succeeded in closing. I've been on dates with dozens, no success. That changed this time, although honestly I could have done much better.
  • Getting a new girl during COVID and Quarantine – believe me, it’s been a very dry last couple weeks, so I was really looking forward to this and had some giant Blue Balls leading up to it.
  • I’m also within striking distance of triple digits (need like 1-4 more I think).

TLDR Version: Met an attractive Russian girl on Bumble, after a few text exchanges I proposed a picnic at the park; she pushed back and suggested a Zoom Video Chat call first (you guys will see a section on this in one of my upcoming articles). I accepted, and on Friday we had a Zoom call that went really well because I was mentally prepared for it – so well that even though in that call we agreed to meet at the park on Sunday, on Saturday morning she changed plans herself to make it Saturday afternoon. In person we had a picnic park date, I saw she was as attractive as her photos, she escalated on me almost the whole time but I wasn’t able to pull. On Sunday, after she reached out to me, I proposed we meet Monday evening for cooking. She arrived around 8:30pm, well after the original 5:30 we agreed to; I decided to cook solo and treat her to dinner myself, and there was tons of LMR after that – I fractionated over and over again, and sometime in the middle of the night I put my cock in her when she finally let her guard down. We fucked two rounds, and I met up with her again two days later in the evening.

Also want to point out that I used a number of strategies that I cover in my latest upcoming articles – on Wealthy Lifestyle Game, and on COVID-19 Dating Changes.



Bumble Meet - preceding Friday of Memorial Day Weekend

COVID made for a rough dating environment if you weren’t good at online game, weren’t willing to pay some money, or had a good roster of ex lovers and current rotation girls to choose from. It’s been the same for me – right as I was getting good momentum again in March, COVID shut down everything especially in the city I live which was hit very hard by COVID, making every single girl extremely fickle and scared about meeting up barring a few.

However, I learned people doing online in my city were still getting laid like crazy.

After hearing from friends who were killing it in the same city on Bumble and Hinge, I decided to reinstall Bumble – an app I haven’t even touched since late 2017! Obviously if you’re not already proficient in online app game, just suddenly switching to it is basically starting from newbie mode all over again.

So I barely got any matches, and maybe one lead a day. One of these early on happened to be an attractive Russian looking girl with blond hair in her 30s. Her profile indicated she’s in finance, has traveled a lot, and doesn’t want to waste time. She seemed to be in the 7-8 range in appearance, and looked like she had a fit body, so I’d give it a shot.

Since in Bumble she engaged first, I asked her two qualifier questions in response and had a short text convo, and tried to insert some humor that she took literally – I’d learn soon this is a very rational girl.


First Date by Video - Friday evening

After exchanging a couple of texts back and forth on Bumble, I went for the date invite. These days I usually suggest a walk or picnic in the park, since it’s Spring and everywhere else is closed for COVID. I got push back, which I expected given the circumstances.

HER: I don’t mind meeting in person, but I think we should start from a test drive – a zoom or a call maybe at first?
ME: Sure, I’m up for a Zoom test drive
ME: How does this Thursday or Friday evening sound to you?
HER: Thursday looks good after 9pm
HER: Or Friday also could work :)
ME: How about Friday evening, 6pm? :)
HER: Sounds good :)
<Friday morning>
ME: Cool, let’s use this link at 6 today, <link>

I think the increase of video first dates are going to be one of the biggest changes to Dating that comes out of COVID-19. This allows girls to screen out losers and waste less time. This means that on the call, you need to be exactly her type to pass and get the in person date – but you can also bet that if she’s very attracted on the video call, it’s going to make the seduction much easier too.

I thought most of the afternoon about how to run a video date, since obviously this would need to go really well for me to even have a shot at meeting her in person. I also knew that if I did well on this topic, then it would make the in person date with her likely that much better.

Very early on just based on the dynamics of this particular girl – being in her 30s, screening heavily in advance, and as she’s asking for a video date – the best path here is likely going to be Date Compression for me. This means I need to make every experience pretty stellar.

The basic model was likely going to be:
  • Video date
  • Park meet – get physical, but she’ll probably decline an invite home
  • Home Cooking Date, with heavy LMR
Just based on all of my failures last year and the year before, I knew what was coming. I thus also chose to do heavy visualizations before all of these dates, and tried to imagine what the best strategy would be. She seemed like an ambitious woman who is very well traveled. So that’s definitely something to focus on. Also, I think since she said things alluding to not wasting time, I should spend a chunk of the call screening her and asking her lots of questions, to make sure she’s worth my time. That way, she feels more valued too.

Since she’s in her 30’s, I knew she’d ask me about a couple things:
  • What do I do?
  • Since I’d be spending most of the date talking about her, at some point she’s going to say I’ve barely told her anything about myself.
  • At some point she’ll ask me to reveal more about myself, and I should tell her something interesting that qualifies her.
  • I'd have to fit her image and her image of an ideal boyfriend.
Finally since this girl is Russian, I also figured I had to be kind of a Alpha 1 – strong appearing. I figured the best way to do this would just be to bust her ass as much as I could.

We linked up at 6:30. Originally my plan was to pour a drink for us at 6:35 and we could cheers together, but this failed when she revealed that she does not have any drinks at home.

The call lasted until around 8:15 and was really good – I kept the focus on her, found out that she’s a super ambitious and talented self employed Owner of an Online Bank for Women. But I turned this around and accused her of being a Russian Secret Agent and secretly out for blood – and that’s why she travels to much. The whole call was really an interweave of this theme – blending parts of our travels, how we grew up, places we’ve lived, what we do for work, and of course busting her ass thru all this.

I wasn’t expecting much from this but it worked well – she was laughing, having fun, and the call lasted just over 1h30m!

At the end of the Zoom call, I told her again that I’m having a great time with her, and suggested that we meet in the park this weekend. I could tell she was very shy and flushed – she was having a great time, and said yes very shyly. Not quite what I was expecting from such an Alpha girl – it goes to show that even Alpha or Alpha-esq women really just want a guy who will dominate them even more.

I brought up meeting Saturday or Sunday, and when she said either, I picked Sunday. Then I got her phone number on the call and texted her. We ended the call on good vibes and quite naturally – I was sitting outside, it was about to rain, and she said I should leave. It was a good end.

She texted me later that evening almost an hour later saying she had a really great time. So clearly this part went well.


Date 2: Next Day Park Date - Saturday evening

The next day out of the blue in the morning, I got a text from her which asked “Hey, good morning! Are you actually free today in the evening?” Wow – that should be a really good sign, right?

I set it up for us to meet at 6pm, and did some Day Game first. In my city, unfortunately day game is still not really a good system for meeting women, as there is Quarantine, a heavy COVID effect, and now Riots all over the place. I’ve found Saturday and Sunday afternoons to be the best days – where I struggle is getting good momentum in advance, since Day Game really is about building leads from scratch.

Around 5:53pm she texted me:
HER: just a head’s up, I was in the park and had 2 glasses of mine.
HER: *wine
HER: first time in 3 months. Going to be interesting date.


Lol…. So she’s tipsy, this will be fun.

at 6 I texted back:
ME: three blocks away!
HER: you late on our first date?! Wow


Already, a shit test! I freaked out here a little bit, but decided just to not respond and be cool when I arrived. Sure enough, I ran into her five minutes later – she was a little bit drunk and immediately told me she had three wines in the park with her friends.

In person she was much shorter than I expected, but also stacked – blonde, bubble ass, huge round D tits, and a skinny waist. And she gave me shit the moment we met.

We hugged and walked over to the park, and the entire time she was already testing me and teasing me – but when we found a good spot to picnic and I brought out all the goods I prepared, she was a bit floored. You see I brought sheets, two glasses of wine, a bottle of wine, some fruit, snacks, and cheese to snack on. I think spending the extra money here helps at least for the date structure type I was going for (I’m sure some guys can get away with nothing and just being only Lover or whatever in these situations).

“You are so prepared! I’ve never been on a date like this.” Over the course of the date she said this like three times.

But then interestingly enough, I noticed that she was taking the lead in preparing snacks, feeding me wine and food. And then, as she was doing this she also physically made herself closer to me. Over the entire date I noticed that she was escalating on me – and it started with light touches, to eventually just resting her body on me or putting her arm on my leg near my crotch.

Important note: we talked about a trip to Montana she’s doing on Thursday the following week, leaving at 8am in the morning. This means I only had Sunday, Monday, or Tuesday to make the next date happen.

Spent the time deep diving her on her life and work – and what she’s passionate about. I should have engaged in sexual frames here too, but I missed this opportunity.

Also, there were several opportunities to kiss her. In retrospect one could say I should have kept raising the tension here and going instead for a home invite, but in the second instance of a kiss opportunity, it just felt right to kiss her. We were looking at each other doing a staring contest, and she kind of leaned in and I went for it – at first she rejected it, but I held the frame and tried a few minutes later and she accepted.

Suddenly, she pulled back, looked at me and said:

“I like big things… huge things… That sound familiar to you?” And just waited for my response.

Wow, what a fucking shit-test! She was definitely tipsy, but she was trying to assess my penis size, lol. Admittedly I do have a big penis, I’ve been told by girls – not huge or anything, but a number have said it’s Big or Above Average. More about this comes in Day 3. I still didn’t know how to react to this, though – so I just looked at her blankly and smiled.

After the kiss she like sprawled out over me or against me several times, so that her head was on my lap. I guess it was romantic.

She got serious at one point, started asking me about my last relationship. I told her I’d gotten out of one in December, because the girl moved away because of a dream job and we ended it amicably. Then said we’re still in touch, and that I stay in touch with exes – she said the same for her. Important frame test here – it seems that when girl’s start asking these kinds of questions, they are really into you.

I should have really used this opportunity to dive into more sex-arousal focused stories.

Around sunset she mentioned wanting to go to the bathroom, so we packed up everything and closed shop on the picnic, started walking north to the area with some bathrooms. Here, she grabbed me and tried to hold hands, instead I offered my arm and she did not accept. So I grabbed her around her body instead, but did hold hands for a minute. I can already tell that managing the provider and monogamy frame is going to be a big deal here – she’s going to push for that.

After the bathroom we went to some benches and sat, watching the water and dusk oncoming. It was very peaceful and romantic, she eventually sat on me facing me and we just made out and talked some life stuff for thirty minutes. She straddled me on the bench, I squeezed her ass and made out with her a lot.

At this point, very important moment – she asked me if I’d had sex since my girlfriend, and then how many times. Again, looked me straight in the eye for a serious answer. I said that I had since December, but I refused to tell her how many times. Suddenly she got up and sat a bench over, and folded her arms and legs unhappily.

I was like “what the fuck” but did nothing – just sat there and stared in space. After like five minutes, she slid over and rested her head on my shoulder, and then grabbed my arm and hugged it.

There was a big missed opportunity here – the environment was definitely ripe for some kind of outdoor sex, but I should have done a little bit of sex talk and adventurous non judgmental frames, then tried to arouse her and sneak her away into a corner. It would have been a high risk high reward ploy – but I need to get better at setting this up. I think what I should have done is at minimum use her question to share sexual stories, then blame her for bringing it up, and then not pull. That would have helped me on Date 3.

The end of this date was abrupt – started walking down the block away from the park, when all of a sudden she just kissed me and walked off, grabbing a bikeshare nearby. No words, no text, no look back.

She didn’t text that evening, so I thought maybe I had screwed something up. In retrospect I think when girls really like a guy, sometimes they do this and get really nervous when parting ways on a date. But, I came out of Date 2 thinking I had failed.


Third Day Home Cooking Date - Monday evening

On Sunday to my surprise she initiated a random text, and we texted back and forth a few times. After a few messages, suggested seeing her before her trip, asking about Monday or Tuesday evening. She suggested Monday evening as available, so we made plans for that. Initially confirming for 5:30pm, on Monday morning while confirming my address, Around 2pm she texted that she has a call suddenly planned for 7, but that it would take thirty minutes and asked if it’s OK for her to get there by 8. No worries I said – I'll just make dinner first and we can eat once she’s here. she texted me about a call she’d be on starting at 7, but asked if it’s okay to come at 8pm. I said sure – I'll probably just cook in advance, and to text me when she’s on the way.

I went to get groceries at 6:30 and started to cook around 7:15. By the time 8 rolled around she said her call was still going, but at 8:05 texted that she’s leaving and she’ll get there in 20 minutes. Finally at 8:35 she arrived; I met her downstairs and walked up with her.

I had left the cooking about 75% complete, so first we grabbed some wine she brought and went to the roof to drink it quick, but then came down and I asked for her help cooking. While taking the lead she kissed me repeatedly and said she was really impressed several times. Luckily it tasted good, too.

Obviously used this to give her more shit, learn more about her, vibe more.

After eating we talked a bit, then at some point she wanted to move to the couch and this started the make-outs and LMR.

From now (10pm) until roughly 4am I’d be fighting her LMR, but slowly.

I did about four different fractionations between the escalations (where it was clear to her that she was enjoying the hell out of it). When I fractionated it would be at a peak vibe, and we went and played games. Twice it was Jenga, then another time it was cards, and a fourth time it was to smoke weed and have some wine. I think the fractionation periods helped a lot, but I’m very used to this – it helps to show a girl that it’s not just sex you want that night, that you’re having fun with her too. After all a girl’s biggest worry here is you pumping and dumping her.

I think in this case, I’d given her a really good experience on all the dates, and she was simply in disbelief that this was real, that we actually had good chemistry and connection.

It took a looooooong time, but slowly I broke her and in every separate escalation a new piece of clothing came off, and her biggest piece of resistance which was “I am on my period” was slowly unwinding.

We ended up having two separate “first fucks” which was really weird, mainly because she got anxious in the first time after I’d entered and stroked a few times, but I was having difficulty getting her to orgasm. Suddenly she just got up and went to the kitchen without saying a word, then put on her bra and underwear and came back. I had to fractionate – and soon after we shut the lights and went to bed. I thought the lights off might help relax her – instead I just couldn’t sleep.

I started escalating and got her bra and panties off again easily, but she wouldn’t let me fuck her. My god, what a body. Girl is in her low 30s so not primo Russian woman body like a 20 year old would be, but damn close – big D boobs very round and rotund, a flat stomach, skinny waist like a figure 8, and wider hips shaping a bubbly firm ass. Every time I looked at her my dick got to a full erection instantly. I can’t imagine what she would have been like in her early 20s. Girl was easily somewhere in the 8-9 range in her 20s, my estimate was 8-8.5 in the moment.

After this point she put up some whole other kind of resistance I’ve never seen.

“Do anything you want to me”

“Huh?”

“First let me fall asleep, but then I want you to take me in the middle of the night. Don’t ask for my permission – just do it.”


Sometime around 4:30am, it became apparent to her (finally) that neither of us was falling asleep. When she brought this up, I alluded to us just having fun instead – and finally she gave herself up and just let me do whatever I wanted. Instead of focusing on making her cum, I focused on making myself cum first (lol) and fucked her for 10-15 minutes to the brink of her cumming, until I nutted. Oddly the sex wasn’t that great, and the chemistry from before was lacking. Couldn’t figure this out.

We had sex one more time that night.


Next Day and Wednesday evening:

Since she slept over, she got up around 7:15, and was out the door by around 7:40. I didn’t dress, make breakfast or anything – just kissed her goodbye. We had talked about meeting up again before her trip – she suggested the same night, but I told her I’m not free, and asked about Wednesday evening. Said she’d let me know.

My FB flaked on Tuesday evening – in a last minute bid, I reached out to A again and said I’ve freed up, if she’s still interested. Instead, she sent me a video of her doing a call, which she had told me about the day before.

Later at night she asked if I wanted to have a video call before she slept – I knew she was leaving on Thursday morning and I wanted to get Lock In before her trip, so I figured this would be a good opportunity to ask. We got on the call and chatted for about 15 minutes, and unfortunately turns out she has a work call at 6:30, plus a early flight the next day. So I gave up on that hope.

Next day, I got this text:
Good morning :)
My flight was cancelled.


Turns out her whole trip got shifted to the following week, with her now leaving on Wednesday next week instead.

Well – now I got what I wanted, and I invited her over to join me at 6pm, so she could just do her call here at 6:30 and she’d already be at my place in time for our 8pm Quarantine because of the Riots.

At the time of writing she’d just come over, spent 6:30-8:30 on another call, and we fucked a few times between 9 and 12:30 when we fell asleep, plus playing cards and watching half a movie. Again the sex was bizarrely odd – sometimes it was good, and it kept seeming like she’s into me, but sexually it felt like she was turned off at random points and would just cut things off, while for me it increased my anxiety.

I took an unusual path and early in the morning made a remark about this, only to find out that she felt pressured for sex, which caused her to withdraw from me, thus causing me anxiety, which caused her more anxiety. Bad cycle. She then mentioned that she really wants to not feel pressured, just that she’ll

Again all this ties back to her image and my lack of setting non-judgmental frames way before. But also, this is definitely a girl that escalates herself.

I fixed this by not giving a fuck about sex in the morning and just calmly hung out with her in bed, her cuddling against me and me stroking her – kind of fucked up, but it’s the way it was to be. We got up and I made oatmeal breakfast and coffee for us, then chatted and hung out with her having a good time laughing over random things. When the vibe was good, I picked her up and pulled her to the bed and banged her for 25 minutes. This time it was actually really good, she didn’t resist at all and kept encouraging me to plow her and fuck her harder – and I got to see her glorious body in the daytime too – we had a passionate time. In the end she told me to cum all over her tits in missionary, so I did cum over her glorious D round tits. Holy shit, made me realize how much I love big tits.

“My Sexual Terrorist,” she told me as she looked at me with a smile and doe eyes, rubbing my cum all over her tits.

“My Russian Spy,” I told her as I went to get a towel and clean up the same.

Had to cut it off quick because I had a phone call to do at 10am, and it was already 9:40. Suddenly got another call at 9:45 from my vendor, and this lasted till 9:55. This gave her a chance to clean up and change – by the time I was finished, she was ready go out and kissed me goodbye. Didn’t make any plans about meeting again, but seems like this girl is really into me.

The frame moving forward will definitely have to be that of an mLTR.


Reflection:
  • There you go, Gents! I haven’t touched Bumble since Dec 2017 when I last installed it on my phone, but COVID times called for desperate measures. Even though I only got a handful of matches, I met up with the most attractive one and got a new goal win!
  • I think with better control I could have done this whole process way better, you can probably see a lot of places where my frame is weak. The video call was the best date in my opinion, and I put too many provider frames in the other two. Part of this is lack of practice – I’m just happy to have some momentum back after being nearly celibate since early March.
  • Russian women have been attracted to me for years, only now am I getting some insight into what works. It seems to be a lot of qualifying, plus on everything she qualifies, making it seem like I’m better and a bigger authority, while also poking fun at her. Also, proceed with seduction even when Russian women are stone cold, which they usually are.
  • I tried some new methods that I expect will rise in popularity in dating – such as a video call requested before the actual meet and how to handle it, as a response to my date invite. I think a video call can have the effect of making a girl really excited to meet you, if you handle it well.
  • I didn’t do any sex talk at any stage in the process, which is very different from my usual process. Instead I just focused on being attractive and having fun, and giving this girl a hard time. Whenever I did that, it seemed to have a good effect on her and she took the lead sometimes too. Where I could have used sex talk is definitely setting nonjudgy frames around sex.
  • Unfortunately even though most of the seduction was good, in this particular case the sex ended up being bad. I don’t fully understand why – partly it could be my own lack of recent skill, momentum, and experience. We had really good chemistry through everything else; personally I blame the girl’s LMR, which is always just exhausting. By the time we actually got to sex, we were both absolutely exhausted, and it seemed like she wasn’t getting wet or aroused easily. I think the problem was that she felt pressured, meaning I need to work on my escalations.
  • I think what worked best is mentally, I framed myself as her superior, as better than her. It was probably most potent on the video call.
  • In the next couple instances of LMR close seductions (unfortunately I’m due to have many of these as I double as a Provider in my appearance and vibe in addition to being a Lover sometimes), I need to really focus on being completely indifferent in my frame through and after the LMR. I did feel like later in the night I was more needy, and I couldn’t sleep and kept pushing for sex more awkwardly. It needs to be more natural.
  • Moving forward will be tough – I know this girl’s probably looking for some kind of LTR, at the same time she’s quite attractive (usually don’t match many attractive women online), pretty driven Alpha and my type, and I want to get more experience with Russian girls, so probably going to vy for some kind of mLTR here. But, one thing moving forward I’m going to have to really manage is her expectations on the provider frame – fully expecting this girl to possibly start texting me nearly every day and/or trying to have video calls a few times a week.
  • Also, I’ve gone into this with a Provider type game style – I call it Wealthy Lifestyle Game, where you just entertain women for fun and because money is no big deal to you. I think it worked especially as a test, but I could have done it with fewer Boyfriend or Providery vibes.

Missed Opportunities:
  • On Date 2, Having sex outside. The weather was good and it was getting dark – just had to find a good place. She was also horny and aroused, and the mood was right. I could have probably snuck us away to dark area and done some damage, although in this instance I hadn’t set.
  • By not doing ANY sex talk, nor the frames leading up to it, I caused myself a good deal of LMR. This always happens anyway, but by doing sex talk I could have also risked losing the magic, since this girl was ultimately looking for connection and not sex. But, I should have definitely used HER bringing up of sex and relationships, to share adventurous sexual stories, bring out her own, and really play with this frame. There’s a whole lot more to this girl than meets my eye, I think she’s SUPER experienced, but I might not get to see all of it even while dating her because of the missing frames.

Overall, grateful for this one - I learned a lot!
 
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Skills

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First, russian women are extremely difficult and they have tons of masculine vibes initially,provider hunters/some gold diggers, full of shit tests, and they are a pain in the ass, but once you break them they are super feminine... I onced fucked a russian stripper that demanded i bring her a specific type of flowers pre-fuck just lol...

Anyways, - i don't know why you chose the picnic (i assumed is cause nothing was open right? this is not ideal in fact it can totally backfire, but then again, you are saying that you are trying something different with provider type game)...

- The lack of sex talk was a total mistake, i don't understand your rationalization of connection... Doing sex talk does not break connection in fact my version of sex talk has an element of "connection in it".

- i also experience with multiple Eastern European and russian women weird vibes during the first couple of sexual encounters, i still can not put my finger on what it is...

- there were multiple attempts from her to sexualize the interactions and you did not capitalize on them...

- i think women that don't care about online dating probably reinstall apps and shit (but speculation) during the lockdowns..


My favorite app is bumble (has a lot of hot professional women and okkupid for me the worst is tinder follow by pof.
 

Grand Pooba

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Anyways, - i don't know why you chose the picnic (i assumed is cause nothing was open right? this is not ideal in fact it can totally backfire, but then again, you are saying that you are trying something different with provider type game)...

Correct - here no shops etc are open, although some spots have started serving drinks for take out. I might switch to this, but the picnic idea is mainly because nothing is open.

- The lack of sex talk was a total mistake, i don't understand your rationalization of connection... Doing sex talk does not break connection in fact my version of sex talk has an element of "connection in it".

You are 100% correct, this girl is definitely a freak with a ton of experience, and I'm not living up to that fantasy.

- there were multiple attempts from her to sexualize the interactions and you did not capitalize on them...

Also correct. This was the biggest lesson I looked back on with Date 2 - which is that I could have done SO MUCH with that and I did not. But it didn't occur to me at the time, unfortunately I learn through my mistakes rather than before making them. It's really slowed down my learning path in game and results, but that is the path of the Mechanic - you don't know what to do till you've failed a ton at what's obvious to others.
 

Grand Pooba

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but once you break them they are super feminine...

This is also 100% correct - I do think this girl genuinely likes me, she's super feminine around me (even made my bed in the morning) but if I had brought up the Sex Talk and opportunities, it would be so much better. But yeah, tons of hoops and shit tests to go thru first, difficult breed of woman.
 

Bacchus

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@Skills can you explain this? I think it would be helpful to myself as well as a few more people here.

I think what @Skills is saying is he makes his sex talk relate to her on a more personal level.

This is a more nuanced, calibrated and effective way. . . to apply just about any sort of verbal game. I also gave you an example of how to use sex-talk this way in one of your previous reports. All that being said, doing this with memorized gambits is tricky. . . internalizing the tech makes it easier.
 

Grand Pooba

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I think what @Skills is saying is he makes his sex talk relate to her on a more personal level.

This is a more nuanced, calibrated and effective way. . . to apply just about any sort of verbal game. I also gave you an example of how to use sex-talk this way in one of your previous reports. All that being said, doing this with memorized gambits is tricky. . . internalizing the tech makes it easier.

Yes, I think it would be helpful to hear on how the sex talk can be related to her and this girl's type on a more personal level.

That is a good first thread linked; it covers more of the areas outside of sex talk, rather than sex talk itself. So I'd like to hear about the Sex Talk with Connection In It.

Your response to my FU was also good - that covered the nuances of sex talk with a virgin girl who was also looking for connection. This Russian girl is going to be different, since she's going to need nuances of sex talk with a very experienced woman and traveler, who is also looking for a connection.

EDIT: I understand you are giving a general framework, what I'm really looking for is specifics so that I can go and try them in field. I don't learn or execute well by freestyling like some of you, because of my lack of empathy in the moment. I have to understand the process and technique in advance, and then try it once the opportunity is there. So I'll need to store this in my arsenal for the next tough Russian traveler, which I get interest from pretty often. Russian girls are SUPER attracted to me, and usually they're incredibly hot, this has been my biggest missing market in my dating life ;)
 
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Bacchus

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EDIT: I understand you are giving a general framework, what I'm really looking for is specifics so that I can go and try them in field. I don't learn or execute well by freestyling like some of you, because of my lack of empathy in the moment. I have to understand the process and technique in advance, and then try it once the opportunity is there. So I'll need to store this in my arsenal for the next tough Russian traveler, which I get interest from pretty often. Russian girls are SUPER attracted to me, and usually they're incredibly hot, this has been my biggest missing market in my dating life ;)

I hope you are aware of the dilemmas and obstructions in trying to learn game that way.

While memorizing stacks, gambits and examples are immediately effective. . . they also crumble under the slightest frame grab. What's more is you will eventually face contexts, demographics and specific situations, that require applications that completely diverge. . . from what you memorized.

So, trying to execute at all, will require an practical understanding of the frame-work. Or else you'll be stuck trying to figure things out after the fact.

Give yourself the opportunity to understand the frame-work. You may fail but you will figure things out infield. Plus, with connection and relatable types of verbal game you must develop your empathy. . . if you don't want your internal frame to remain brittle. And slow down your learning curve.

Building connections is a skill that can be applied pragmatically in various topics. But it relies on your practical knowledge of the topics used. Because when it comes to this type of calibration. It won't matter how well you can connect. . . if you haven't internalized sex talk. And vice-versa.

The previous example was for a Chinese virgin. Here it was an experienced Russian. The next one may need something different. And so on. . .

All that said, there are a few examples in this article I wrote. Its a conversation management and free-styling guide. One of the examples shows how to sexualize a conversation. . . that was going off the rails in a particular context. But I encourage you to pay more attention. . . to the frame-works presented. Because this is something that every verbal wizard. . . had to learn in incremental steps. Even I had to take my baby steps as I learnt this too.
 

Grand Pooba

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I hope you are aware of the dilemmas and obstructions in trying to learn game that way.

While memorizing stacks, gambits and examples are immediately effective. . . they also crumble under the slightest frame grab. What's more is you will eventually face contexts, demographics and specific situations, that require applications that completely diverge. . . from what you memorized.

So, trying to execute at all, will require an practical understanding of the frame-work. Or else you'll be stuck trying to figure things out after the fact.

Give yourself the opportunity to understand the frame-work. You may fail but you will figure things out infield. Plus, with connection and relatable types of verbal game you must develop your empathy. . . if you don't want your internal frame to remain brittle. And slow down your learning curve.

Building connections is a skill that can be applied pragmatically in various topics. But it relies on your practical knowledge of the topics used. Because when it comes to this type of calibration. It won't matter how well you can connect. . . if you haven't internalized sex talk. And vice-versa.

The previous last example was for a Chinese virgin. Here it was an experienced Russian. The next one may need something different. And so on. . .

All that said, there are a few examples in this article I wrote. Its a conversation management and free-styling guide. One of the examples shows how to sexualize a conversation. . . that was going off the rails in a particular context. But I encourage you to pay more attention. . . to the frame-works presented. Because this is something that every verbal wizard. . . had to learn in incremental steps. Even I had take my baby steps with this too.

Yes @Bacchus let me clarify so everyone else can learn as well.

YOUR method described is the right way to do it. This is the way it works well for 95% of guys as far as learning and execution goes - especially the higher you are as an empath, you can read these things on the fly.

This is not the way I learn, unfortunately. I'm not saying this as a limiting belief in any form - this is just the way I am. It's my personal weakness in learning. It's the weakness in my brain I suppose (maybe you do believe that each of us does have some inherent strengths as well as weaknesses, this is one of my weaknesses is that I do not learn "on the fly" like 95% of other people) so I'm looking for (selfishly) the solution that will work for me with this type of girl moving forward.

For me, I need a framework of examples before I really succeed. This has been one of the reasons why my journey in the game thus far has been slow, but also very consistent. I'm just a slow learner.... I am a Mechanic, as Chase described in his article on that. I learn from patterns, and I tie those patterns and models to the feelings, and that builds my own empathy. THEN I get to relate to the girls - but I hardly relate to girls from the start, unless I already know everything about them. Which brings me to my strength - I'm highly intelligent, so once the model's there and all the variables are understood, I can calibrate well and be consistent almost like a machine.

If this doesn't make sense to you, I can explain it in person the next time we meet up - hopefully once all the travel bans are lifted.

So yeah, everyone else should follow @Bacchus' method, unless you are also a Mechanic.
 
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Bacchus

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This is not the way I learn, unfortunately. I'm not saying this as a limiting belief in any form - this is just the way I am. It's my personal weakness in learning. It's the weakness in my brain I suppose (maybe you do believe that each of us does have some inherent strengths as well as weaknesses, this is one of my weaknesses is that I do not learn "on the fly" like 95% of other people) so I'm looking for (selfishly) the solution that will work for me with this type of girl moving forward.

Do you know that I used examples, stacks and gambits from other seducers for years. Before I was able to see that I was limiting myself by learning this way? Do you know how painful it was to eventually realize. . . that I could have improved much faster. If I had stopped kidding myself earlier?

If you'd like to know how I learned verbal game. It was exactly how you describe. . . asking for examples in many contexts. Trying them all out. Slowly tweaking and personalizing the details bit by bit. While there is nothing wrong with doing this for a while. Making it a habit is a self-limiting strategy.

For me, I need a framework of examples before I really succeed. This has been one of the reasons why my journey in the game thus far has been slow, but also very consistent. I'm just a slow learner.... I am a Mechanic, as Chase described in his article on that. I learn from patterns, and I tie those patterns and models to the feelings, and that builds my own empathy. THEN I get to relate to the girls - but I hardly relate to girls from the start, unless I already know everything about them.

You have already seen and used a fair amount of sex talk gambits. You are also familiar with deep diving and connection building techs.

Some of the patterns are already in there. . . you just need to combine them. All the articles I linked discuss how you can go about doing this. And once you develop this habit you will find it easier to make your own gambits. Then you'll test them out. . . and see how intuitive you've already become.

Like I said in my last post it is basically impossible. . . to figure out all the little variables before doing this. These techs are a tad too complex. You will need to learn different ways to use them and mini-objectives to complete. Distinct adjustments that must be made. . . depending on contexts and demographics. Reference experience. . . is crucial to establishing such mental models. You'll develop better ones by trying out frame-works infield.

If this still seems daunting after reading those articles. Start a thread and I will break it down even further. I'm confident that you can pull this off.

Remember that everyone passes through. . . the 4 stages of competence. And at intermediate/advanced levels your personality is just a path of least resistance. If you can overcome that resistance by doing what I have described. A day will come when you simply create. . . your own relatable sex talk gambits on the fly as you seduce new women. This is unconscious competence. Then you'll look back on what I've quoted today and chuckle. . .
 
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Velasco

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Sit down and pull up a text file. Write down all the topics you are very familiar with. That have lead to productive conversations.

Write down any related subtopics of said topics you can think of. Then ask yourself, ok how can I lead from Topic X to subtopic A (to engage her imagination) or subtopic B (to set a sexual frame)(or both, which is what I do)).

By familiarizing yourself with these topics, their subtopics, and frame grabs to the frames you've set from these topics in past interactions, you'll easily be able to pace any frame grabs future girls might throws at you, while remaining composed. As you smoothly lead her, to arrive at a new perspective that serves your purpose.

While if these new girls were to throw you frame grabs, you hadnt heard of before and hence werent prepared for, no big deal. make note of it, as a potential frame grab, future girls might throw at you. so you can pace and lead that frame grab too.
 

Grand Pooba

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Sit down and pull up a text file. Write down all the topics you are very familiar with. That have lead to productive conversations.

Write down any related subtopics of said topics you can think of. Then ask yourself, ok how can I lead from Topic X to subtopic A (to engage her imagination) or subtopic B (to set a sexual frame)(or both, which is what I do)).

By familiarizing yourself with these topics, their subtopics, and frame grabs to the frames you've set from these topics in past interactions, you'll easily be able to pace any frame grabs future girls might throws at you, while remaining composed. As you smoothly lead her, to arrive at a new perspective that serves your purpose.

While if these new girls were to throw you frame grabs, you hadnt heard of before and hence werent prepared for, no big deal. make note of it, as a potential frame grab, future girls might throw at you. so you can pace and lead that frame grab too.

Great idea, thank you!
 

Skills

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@Skills can you explain this? I think it would be helpful to myself as well as a few more people here.


Grand pooba, first you got laid which was the goal with a hot russian girl during covid, this in itself is difficult.... I just had issues cause i saw so many mistakes that could have caused me the lay, you got away with them, then i saw so many miss opportunities cause similar stuff has happened to me and i handle it a lot different, now a day i barely have to handle it i just follow my silly stuff and is on autopillot... now you recognized in your reflection many of the things you did ok, that could have been better, but then again you have not done this in a long time (online dating that is) and you were a bit overwhelmed cause russian girls have not close, and this girl was very alpha and good looking... So my problem is with this:

By not doing ANY sex talk, nor the frames leading up to it, I caused myself a good deal of LMR. This always happens anyway, but by doing sex talk I could have also risked losing the magic, since this girl was ultimately looking for connection and not sex. But, I should have definitely used HER bringing up of sex and relationships, to share adventurous sexual stories, bring out her own, and really play with this frame. There’s a whole lot more to this girl than meets my eye, I think she’s SUPER experienced, but I might not get to see all of it even while dating her because of the missing frames.

that is 99.9% of girls lol, newman quoting pure evil had an amazing post which was in the whole of fame in nextasf (@Mike Silvertree is there any way to access whole of fame???) which would have help a lot in your way of thinking, the summary is that the best way to connect with a women is having your dick deep inside her pussy walls.... But anyways, i am also a very slow learning, and i totally can't stand all the jargon and sophisticated points to make simple, dumb down points, which is what i do and why i am popular in forums...

now what is connection:

I
f you feel an emotional connection, it's romance. If you're not sure what that feels likes, it's basically when you really, really like someone and it has nothing to do with any tingling feeling in your crotch area.

^ as you know connection is not even needed to get laid, but i understand your point you did not want to risk by doing the sex talk her getting turn off and blowing it up.... However, the sex talk that most guys here do and probably you is second generation sex talk, this should not happen on the contrary is just a sexual dhv the way teevester design it...

now actually gun 3 keys, sexual, social,emotional.... you were missing the sexual and you had tons of issues cause you kind of missed it, which in turn actually kind of backfired in the badroom, her head was probably fill with stress, questioning herself and anxiety....

the goal of MY sex talk is to (cause teevester one according to him, who got mad at me cause i included the connection part is):

1.- She needs to know that you won’t judge her as a slut or a whore for going home fast with you.

2.- She needs to know you are sexually competent, in other words that you are good in bed.

3.- She needs to know she will be safe. Since you are much stronger than her and you have the ability to harm her physically.

4.- She needs to know you are not going to use her, aka fuck her and tell her to get the fuck out making her feel like shit. (most false rape accusations happened due to this).

5.- She needs to know that you will not be a clinger, stalker or super needy after sex and pushy before sex.

@Velasco who is freaking my out lol, gave you an example on how i do it kind of, of course is a video and i sometimes go a big deeper, but is a start...

here is a deeper understanding by cosy (he is chase writter to, i forgot his name in chase)"

Crash course in second generation verbals for those unfamiliar
Alright, so
At first you are thinking
MM did negs
DYD did cocky funny
SS did Octoberman sequence
And Ross Jefferies acted like a dog at the playboy mansion trying to sniff Carmen Electras butt
Not cool Ross… not cool
However this isn’t how second gen verbals work because we came from that same perspective as you guys
We thought to ourselves, geez, you don’t need to hypnotize the girl, actually BE attractive
and geez don’t play some power game trying to neg her, its just insecure and weird
also trying to be cocky funny is just so try hard and goes nowhere… you need real understanding of how to lead women!
So it left us to explore escalation and to perfect it
Ijjjji is great at escalation, so am I, so is teevs, so are a lot of guys here
skills is good at escalation, so is pureevil, etc etc
Its the MAIN staple skill
creating bubbles etc, smoothing through resistance by elevating buying temp etc
and to do it right you just need a girls attention, so verbals are not necessary
Because second generation had to develop this authentically sexy skill it became very independent from everything that came before
so poof, all that ss, all those negs, all that cf in the trash
Me too… I think it took me a few nights of experimenting with that stuff to be horribly traumatized and never wanna see it again
God that stuff was bad.
Anyways, so we evolved since then, and it is a damn good thing
Heck even ijjjji a first generation guy, EVOLVED to be a totally badass escalation guy
getting his vibes just right, to sweeten and quicken the effect of mutual attraction
Mingling, one of his concepts, is great in club, and a focus on kino, expressions, and flattery is a good first punch in anyones aresenal
I’ve been doing mingling since I started, so I get it, I love it
So if all that stuff works, and we don’t need those old things, then why are verbals discussed?
Well, heres the thing
Escalation works great in moments where escalation is plausible, you can amp up the possibility and make it happen
But escalation is a bit weak during other stretches of the interaction, like when her friends show up and deliver new energy (causing you to have to regenerate the mood)
or when she is hesitating to go away with you because… because,,,
Most guys then try to DIAL IT UP TO ELEVEN on the attraction dial in order to PATCH over this hole
But if you dial up the attraction, you also dial up the risk, leading to tail end blowouts
and those can be avoided by understanding a few dynamics
First is the theory of ASD
how women, going home with a totally physical monster of yum, is going to feel a bit guilty about it
shes going to be thinking “oh geez, I really did it didn’t I!”
and you will be like “doesn’t matter” be sexual
OK… but it doesnt actually address her issue, shes still thinking “gah, im being so crazy”
Second is the theory of resistance
All girls show resistance, and how a man overcomes that resistance will inform her behaviour
Sometimes certain resistances INCLUDE physical taboos, so she won’t allow touching
Therefor you can wind up looking toothless when those barriers arise
But they are RESISTANCE not disinterest, so they shouldn’t really be blowing it for you
Thirdly is the secret society idea
If you are on the inside regarding sex and sexuality, then girls will be more open with you than other guys
Thiscan be donenon-verbally but, a caveman isn’t secret society, hes just what they go for
so know you are being attractive to the society yes, but you probably arent showing you are one… yet
You might get close, they might suspect you are secret society, but they won’t know with confirmation until it is discussed
Fourthly is girl-coding
The secret language girls use
This is important in understanding that girls are incredibly fast on the uptake of implied meanings
but also VERY critical
They can quickly imply you are out for sex and a sexual guy if you are doing good physical stuff
But they will also reserve the right to criticise you for being see through
Fifthly is being frank about your intentions
knowing girls are sexually interested in guys
and not being a niceguy manipulator
Tail end blowouts occur from insuffiently convincing her of these things and allowing her doubts to set in around them
The second gen verbal comes from concepts like this for reasons I’ll explain in just a moment
See,
Initially when you do escalation based physical game, you do know all these things, but you kind of just do your best with it
You get around it with good tension, decent frames, leading etc
Beautiful
You also use some language here and there, but its not important what it is, more the physical stuff layered behind it, under it etc
Well, second gen verbals start from this point of awareness.
See basically in order to do verbals you need to think a bit further ahead
You need to think, yes I’m getting laid, but can I change HOW I’m doing it???
Can I change thhe dynamic of it?
Is it possible for a girl to follow a different pathway than the one I know?
And knowing what I know, how can it go differently?
Well it turns out, you can do it differently
By using the concepts above, and expanding on their utility
Basically you look at asd, you look at secrret society, you look at resistances, you look at frank intentions, girl coding, and you make a LEAP
You leap to the conclusion that ALL of those topics IMPLY one missing piece
They imply that you are not CONFIRMING OR DENYING certain doubts women have, you are just letting her doubts sit there
She doesnt KNOW she isnt a slut
She doesn’t KNOW without any doubt at all that you are secret society
She doesn’t KNOW what you think about sex (maybe you are just fluking it, shes seen it before)
She doesn’t KNOW that you can operate on her level of thought (completely or to what extent)
She doesn’t KNOW if you can be sophisticated or intelligent sexually (or if you are an unguided bulldozer)
And when you only do non-verbal none of those doubts get addressed
So you make the LEAP that if you address them, it might change things
Ok, so that is a hypothesis!
But does it ACTUALLY change things IF you address those concerns girls have?
Thats what you test.
You VERBALISE she isnt a slut (though not directly)
You VERBALISE your understanding of her secret society view on life
You VERBALISE feelings on sex
You VERBALISE the extent of your mind and its workings equal to hers
You VERBALISE a level of intelligence and sophistication regarding approaches you have
And by verbalising FREE HER FROM HAVING TO ASSUME OR GUESS ABOUT THE FACTS
She is then RELIEVED of having to guess
and thusly can INTERNALISE beliefs she would have otheerwise DOUBTED or not internalised beecause of fear of being wrong
So what actually happens when you do this right?
It creates a LEAP FORWARD in sexual subcommunication!
Because girls have to guess less.
Which, causes girls to not put the goal posts further and further away out of doubt, but bring them closer and closer to you out of confidence in what you said.
You evoke confidence in her, which causes her to contribute more, and
SHE KNOWS HOW TO CONTRIBUTE VERBALLY
and later will contribute physically
This evolved in second gen
It isnt a first gen nonsense idea
It is simply about verbalising things to free up the process of belief and internalisation
For example, someone nods at you to go get a tool from a tool box
You can surmisee that they need a tool, look at the job they are doing, and if you know the tools, pick the right one to give them
BUT if you are anxious, or don’t know the job very well, or are distracted
You would PREFER them to tell you the socket wrench and what it should look like
Its simple really
Verbalising, makes other people MORE CONFIDENT that they know what you want and why
Increasiing their efficiency
By taking the same toolbox and DESCRIBING it to girls
They get clued in
and help you, ratherthan fumbling around hesitating at times
Second generation verbal is an evolution from second generation physical game
by tightening in on the potential factors for later blowouts
its a safeety checklist of ideas you go through to make sure shes on the right page
IT DOES attract her, by putting you out as a self aware and sexually awake man
But in itself isn’t always enough, requiring teension and other dynamics to get you over the line
So you need good competancy in non-verbal to really heighten it
using tonality, body language, eye contact, kino, small maneuvers like whispering in her ear etc
vibing with her”
 
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Grand Pooba

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the goal of MY sex talk is to (cause teevester one according to him, who got mad at me cause i included the connection part is):

1.- She needs to know that you won’t judge her as a slut or a whore for going home fast with you.

2.- She needs to know you are sexually competent, in other words that you are good in bed.

3.- She needs to know she will be safe. Since you are much stronger than her and you have the ability to harm her physically.

4.- She needs to know you are not going to use her, aka fuck her and tell her to get the fuck out making her feel like shit. (most false rape accusations happened due to this).

5.- She needs to know that you will not be a clinger, stalker or super needy after sex and pushy before sex.

@Velasco who is freaking my out lol, gave you an example on how i do it kind of, of course is a video and i sometimes go a big deeper, but is a start...

There you have it, gents!

A couple of people on the boards have asked about how to do Sex Talk on Dates and in Day Game. These are the points to hit.

Anyway, I'm going to use this outline to fill in my stories for each of these, for the next date.
 

Grand Pooba

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- i also experience with multiple Eastern European and russian women weird vibes during the first couple of sexual encounters, i still can not put my finger on what it is...

Read this part again - have you really experienced this as well? I was so confused by this - is this just another Russian shit test? I think it might be.
When does it go away, or how did you take it away?
 

Skills

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Read this part again - have you really experienced this as well? I was so confused by this - is this just another Russian shit test? I think it might be.
When does it go away, or how did you take it away?

my theory is purely mental masturbation and speculation, also the women that i bang in the past from russia and eastern europe, i did not use at the time second generation verbals, but:

I committed the cardinal offense of mentioning this article to my Russian wife and she commented as follows.

The western concept of dating is not exactly matched in Russian culture; rather, Russian women are largely marriage-orientated and tend to be intent on a long-term relationship from the beginning. Indeed, as I recall in our own case, she considered our early relationship as a de facto engagement.

Accordingly, she (and the rest of them, presumably) think a man should demonstrate tokens of his suitability as a long-term mate as early in the process as possible. That is to say, they expect impressive gifts and displays of concerned provision – and nurturing care – at the outset. That might also extend to presents for her stone-faced mama, that towering monolith casting a long, dark shadow across her personality’s hinterland.

In the West, however, we naturally interpret such requirements as gold-digging / materialism, or even outright neurosis. So we see red flags and run a mile, which is – despite my experience married to a Russian wife – my abiding inclination at the thought of hooking up with a Russian woman ever again. And I stand by my previous comments on daddy issues, proud looks, and so on.

Overall, there appears to me to be more to dissuade a Western man from marrying a Russian woman than there is to commend it, at least in generic, abstract, non-particular-example terms. It’s a cultural gulf that will put your patience through the mill.

^ i personally think, that since we are used to non eastern european/russian sex/behavior the majority of time.... When we are seducing/banging a russian/ and some eastern european at times fall into this, the experience in bed is a bit more mechanical, not relaxed, in their heads etc..... Maybe due to culture..... then gets better, but yeah the first few times kind of sucks for me... (i ended up with one for 3 years)


If You want to have fun with stories from different seducers read this (the author is not really a good seducer but he is good at online) but in the comment section there are some seducers...
 

Mondo

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I wonder how this effects the Russian girls when you stick with something more casual? With that much expectation of a LTR on their end, I imagine that even if they are cool with it for a bit they will eventually bubble over and something will have to give.

I imagine that this is only worse when actually dating in Russia, but we will see when I get there. I'm very much the optimist.

I live by that "leave 'em better than you found 'em" rule. So managing their expectations seems a must.
 

Velasco

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the women that i bang in the past from russia and eastern europe, i did not use at the time second generation verbals
ya. you will notice that not many advanced seducers talk about "Russian/Italian/Brazilian/American girls are blah blah". It's this particular girl is/has:
very attracted to me.
not attracted to me.
very shit testy.
high ASD.
no ASD.
racist.
PC.
retarded.
intelligent.
experienced.
inexperienced.
etc.

Calibrate to the girl. Not what nationality she is.
 
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